TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

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Another thing about DL vs ID.. When you apply for a DL in one state, you can skip the test if you have an active DL in another and you surrender it. However, you can hold an ID AND a DL at the same time.. So she could have surrendered the DL and kept the ID. We have no info on any DLs other than TX but there is no connected database that you could check between states. You would have to request a DMV search from each questioned state under each name you wanted to check.

Illegal alien smugglers use this to their advantage by " losing" their DL multiple times and having multiple ID cards made, all with different " looks" which they sell to the people they are bringing across. You only have to show a DL from the US to get across the Mexican border. I am not sure about Canada. I saw a case where one woman had over 25 DLs and 16 ID cards made in a very short period of time. The DMV said they were warned to not argue the point as they could be investigated for discrimination of they questioned it.

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Not sure where she was actually living, but Public Records Vol. 1 lists an address for her in Irving, TX in 1989:

Residence
1989 • Irving, TX
Name: Lori E Kennedy Birth date: Jul 1969 Phone Number: 355-0747 Address: 1111 W Airportfy 147, Irving 75062

(Airportfy = Airport Freeway)

What is "Public Records Vol. 1"?

That address has come up in the past; I have it in my notes as a possible mail drop she used, but no date associated with it. That she used it in 1989 is as plausible as any time.

To answer the other question, my guess is the obvious - that she got the passport first because that was the most important thing for her to get. If you entertain the theory that she was in hiding due to the 1988 west coast pot bust and her family's possible involvement and the trial of 23 people in the years following that, then that makes perfect sense. Her life could depend on being able to flee the country under an assumed name if needed. Having and driving a car was secondary (cabs are available for a trip to the airport); I'm sensing this was her priority.

I'm not at this stage thinking her family was illegally involved in that operation, though I suppose that is another possibility. But the relative speed and ease with which a young and inexperienced gal gets all these documents is notable.

I've always wondered if the actual reason LEK obtained such a perfect identity to assume was due to just sheer luck. Maybe someone in BST's extended family did a genealogy & LEK just happened on a copy. She then would be either a distant relative, or a friend of a distant relative. Or maybe she happened on a copy of the newspaper that reported BST's death; sometimes it's amazing how something as ephemeral as a local newspaper will travel a long ways from its home town. While this would mean it is virtually impossible to find her birth name thru any connection with BST, it would definitely mean LEK wasn't some kind of genius in reinventing herself. Just an average Jane who stumbled into an incredible bit of luck.

By the way, thanks for the info upthread that the investigator in this case was not formerly FBI (sorry, can't open up another window right now to track down poster's name, but do appreciate it). If Villers is simply a SS investigator (retired?) pursuing this out of curiosity (with no one living to charge with a crime), he certainly and legally could be kept from knowing her secret if this were a witness protection case. If she's who I think she is, there are many family members still living, including military/LE types whose cover might also be compromised if her true name were known.

If that was me, no problem. With all of the posts on this case, it does take a lot of time (as in days) to sift thru them all & get all of the pertinent details. We can all use help to keep the pertinent facts straight.

I know at the time Villers was doing this investigation at the request of a congressman (the Seattle Times article & the FOIA papers detail this), & at least for the first few months worked on this part-time. A few full days at the beginning, probably a few hours a week as time went on; he did have other, more important cases in his workload. While identity theft by a deceased individual is a low-priority crime, he could justify working on it in part as a political favor (congressmen tend to get the favors they ask for), but more importantly because this investigation could lead to something major like an identity theft-ring. The fact that this case went cold suggests that Villers found no evidence of that, just someone who had learned the steps, found an ideal identity to steal, & pulled it off.

I'm using weasel-words about the nature of Velling's job for the simple reason the more I think about it, the more I don't know exactly what his duties exactly were: for example, did it involve carrying a gun & arresting suspects? If so, then this was a criminal case, & he had a wider range of activities he could have performed in this or related cases. And he was, whether consciously or not, looking for someone to arrest. If not, then this was a civil case, & he was looking for evidence that would have been used in a civil suit; a lot of government enforcement is done thru civil suits.

It would be useful for someone to explain exactly what Velling's job entailed. That way people like me, who often try to tease more information from the known facts based on where they come from, would not make so many stupid assumptions.

In any case, I expect he had resources that he drew on: he could run a credit check, for example. One tool I'd be surprised that he didn't use was to review her social security records. To an experienced investigator like Velling, that alone told an awful lot about a person, such as where she worked, what kind of jobs she held, & how much she made. (One reason I suspect he mentioned the ex-boyfriend who cast shade on her by saying she'd worked as a "dancer" is that he couldn't find enough reported income for those years, & since a lot of income a "dancer" makes is off the books he thought it likely. Then again, if Spring/Summer1988 can be trusted, LEK had an elderly mother who died not long after SS1988 met her; it may be she inherited a chunk of money from her mother's estate & lived off of that for a few years.)

As for your theory she (or her parents) might have been in the witness protection program, I would expect Velling knew the clues that indicated that. While there aren't that many people in WITSEC as the media makes it seem (according to Wikipedia the numbers are 8,500 witnesses & 9,500 family members), since a lot of these people are career criminals, I'm sure a large number of them relapse into their bad habits & end up attracting the attention of unrelated law enforcement officers. (Such as Henry Hill, whose life story was made into a book & was the basis of the movie "Goodfellas".) He probably either knew or knew someone who knew what to look for to determine if the person was in or had left WITSEC. And there are ways, both formal & informal, for LE officers like Velling to ask "Is this person in WITSEC?" Depending on the case, they may get an answer or not. I'm assuming, again, that because Velling came to the general public for help identifying LEK that he had no definite evidence or suspicions she was in WITSEC or one of its state-level equivalents. Which doesn't mean she wasn't in WITSEC, just that she didn't fit the profile.

Sometimes I wonder if Velling wasn't handicapped in this case by his own experience: beyond stealing a dead girl's identity, she doesn't appear to have committed any serious crimes. (Yes, she was arrested for speeding once.) LEK wasn't the typical person who commits the crime of stealing from the social security system. She either was running away from someone or something she was frightened of, or did it because she thought that radically recreating herself this way would help her somehow. And the people she left behind -- whether they were criminals, cult members, family or associates -- don't seem to have noticed she is gone from their lives. Otherwise, someone (besides the equally mysterious S/S1988) would have reported her missing by now, or at least volunteered some information about her.
 
805947c0897425f8b20c4024364748da.png


https://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/blog/2012/08/oigs-special-agents-enforcing-federal-laws


Actually nearly every government agency has armed investigators, even the post office and USDA! Lots of times they are on task forces also where many agencies work together toward one case resolution that involves crimes that overlap each office.


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Another thing to think about is Velling was a SENIOR agent in his office, meaning he was the boss. It's unusual for the boss to actually investigate " on the street", usually they " manage" cases to make sure they are progressing and agents are staying within their scope of practice. I am sure Velling was not the only agent assigned to the case but he was the lead agent, meaning he was the " organizer" of the case.
 
Just a question about the yearbook photos: I've noticed many in here are posting photos from yearbooks from the 1980s. But if FLEK were actually attending public school growing up and if her doctor and/or investigator thinks she was claiming to be up to 9 yrs younger than she actually was, shouldn't we be looking at yearbook photos from the 70s era? She obviously wasn't at a 10-yr age difference in elementary school--if attended, she would have entered the elementary school system under her correct and real (and noticeably young) age. JMO, but I'm thinking it's the decade post high school that has been erased (1977 - 1987), meaning we maybe should concentrate on 1970s school searches and photos.

FLEK claimed to have been born in 1969. But if that's off by as much as a decade, it affects the school searches. Here's the tbreakdown on birth years and high school graduation classes, assuming she was actually age 5 by the fall she entered kindergarten in the public school system:

b. 1959 - Class of 1977
b. 1960 - Class of 1978
b. 1961 - Class of 1979
b. 1962 - Class of 1980

And so on...

I discovered 3 interesting things yesterday with yearbook searches, though am thinking it's probably NOT ok to post random people's photos in here who are not already in mainstream media concerning this case. For background - I'm operating under the theory that FLEK may have adopted the name of a school chum when she changed her identity. The FOI (Family of Interest) I'm looking at was from the Anaheim area and surrounds--(father died there as well). So I started with the Anaheim school yearbook (named "Lancer" by the way).

Re the group shot in the 1973 yearbook photo featuring an "LK" in their drama club: there are 27 girls listed underneath that photo as being in that drama club - a mixture of 7th, 8th, and 9th graders. Fewer girls than that are pictured in the photo. So, I plowed through the yearbook checking 1) the photos of all the girls in that list, and 2) the photos of all the girls who'd have been in FLEK's and LK's 8th grade class. (And, in the process of finding all the girls in that list, I did end up seeing all the girls in that yearbook from all three grades.)

Results - there are 3 girls listed in the drama club with the student LK who are NOT pictured elsewhere in the yearbook - not in 7th, 8th, or 9th grade headshots. All the other girls listed under that group photo all pan out as NOT being FLEK when compared to the individual grade headshots in that 1973 yearbook.

Of the 3 girls not pictured...

Two are in LK's drama class, and 1 is in the other drama class (two drama classes make up the drama club pictured).

The one not in LK's drama class is not as high on the association list, so I'm looking at her last and will check other area yearbooks for her image.

Concerning the 2 girls with no headshot photos who ARE in listed in classmate LK's drama class:

- the first one's headshot is missing possibly because, if a 9th grader, that entire headshot page is missing from the yearbook. Interesting; she may be other yearbooks. Since my FLEK's birthdate would generally make FLEK an 8th grader (like LK), this person will be on the back burner for now.

- the 2nd gal whose photo is missing has a surname that is FLEK's mother's maiden name (if my FOI is correct). So that's also interesting; will check into that and let you know if anything comes up.


And, despite all that, I still haven't ID'd the gal in that group drama club shot with LK who originally piqued my interest. :eek: It may just be because the group photo is such poor quality that I'm not perceiving it correctly. I did, however find another 8th grader whose photo interested me, so plan for yet another rabbit trail today.
 
What is "Public Records Vol. 1"?

That address has come up in the past; I have it in my notes as a possible mail drop she used, but no date associated with it. That she used it in 1989 is as plausible as any time. <snipped for reference>

Just a quick answer to this while I read the rest of your post..it's an online public database offered for genealogical research purposes. Here's the more complete descriptor/disclaimer offered by the ancestry site (click to read):

image.jpg
 
Would a notice not have been filed in a local paper for a name change?

Also..... re: name choice. My name is semi common. When people forget my name, I hear similar variations. For example....
Jean, June, Joan, Jane
Mary, Mae, Marie
Sheila, Shelly, Sherri

If I were to change my identity out of panic and not a creative desire, I would likely choose something similar to what I already have or to choose that of my siblings. Kwim?
 
One last thing before I go back to reading...

Concerning the family of interest (FOI) I've been considering she might be related to --

I discovered a probable family member (also graduating into the service) who went to high school in Tacoma, which is a 10-minute drive from Fife, WA. Other relatives in the area, too. (Not 100% certain, yet, but firming up the tree connections as time permits today.) Guessing this tragic of a story involving 3 dead children would have hit the local (Tacoma) news big time and so would possibly have been known about by FLEK's CA family if indeed they had family in the Tacoma area.

So, yet another rabbit-trail. :)
 
Okay. So. I have been reading "The Paper Trip II" by Barry Reid. I don't think FLEK hired a broker. I think she did this all herself with the help of the how-to guide. She has followed it to a 'T' with sequences and everything.

I think the key to unraveling SOME of this is to figure out how she found out, or was told, about BST. Chances are, she just went to a library and scanned the microfiches for a period around her own childhood. She followed the guide so much, that she even chose from a family who had lost multiple members at the same time. It even says where and how much to apply for birth certificates. AND Eden Press also offered assistance on providing state ID cards. Maybe she never was in Idaho after all?

The book even outlines how to work temporary jobs, get coloured contacts, open mailboxes..... you name it!
 
From THE PAPER TRIP II (1985)
*****************************

"Eden press now offers ID by MAIL, a complete guide to all the ID firms and their various products. Everything from 'drivers licenses,' state ID cards, student/employee ID, birth certificates, badges, press cards, memberships and diplomas is included. A special feature is an up-to-date section on ID machines, with a list of manufacturers. Price is $19.95." p.15

"Now that you know the date and place of birth, you can easily write to the county recorder and obtain P.W.'s birth certificate. Using this is an out-of-state context (where the person died in a state other than the one in which he is born), you will free yourself from any possible cross-referencing. You can use the certified copy of the birth certificate to obtain a new driver's license, state ID card, etc. You can also send in for a 'duplicate' Social Security card, and get it within a few weeks." p.17

"The safest way to use 'takeover' ID is to use it in a state different from that in which the person was born and died. Since the states are the basic repositories of almost all ID records, rather than any central file, it makes sense to operate in a state in which no records were ever compiled. ALL the federal records, such as Social Security, military, and passport, are initially derived from state records, and will not reflect data which have not originated from the states." p.17

"The COURT method is more foolproof. You may want to have an attorney file all the forms for you and accompany you to court, but it's also possible to prepare all the forms yourself. Clerks of most courts are quite helpful, and will at least tell you all the forms needed and the fees required for filing. They will set up your date for court appearance, and can usually be cajoled into providing other useful tidbits of information as well." p.18

"The way to carry out this new paper trip is to obtain all new ID from the state in which you change your name and then move to the state where you wish to live or operate under your new name. Once in the new state, begin 'trading in' your out-of-state, new ID for ID from your new state. The new state will have no reason to believe you are anyone other than who your old state ID says you are." p.18 (why did she stay in Texas after changing her name there?)



100 WAYS TO DISAPPEAR AND LIVE FREE
************************************
http://www.textfiles.com/survival/dissapp.txt

"It can be super-cool to room in someone else's apartment or home. Check the daily newspapers for ads under heading like 'Rooms to share', 'rentals to share', or 'apartments to share'. This way all records relating to occupancy will already be in someone else's name."

"The basic technique is to recreate the records you want, provide the address of a mail forwarding service as that of the source of those records, and handle all correspondence *yourself*. By using photo duplication of altered documents, a little rubber-stamping, or even some "quick-print" offset printing, you can easily and rather quickly come up with working solutions to some of the most baffling problems in starting a new identity. You can have a field day creating all kinds of "backgrounds". The only limitation is your own imagination. These methods WORK, too!!"

"Receive all your mail at a 24-hour Post Office box. Use your 'legal' address to obtain the box, or any "friendly" address for that matter. Once you have the box, and continue to pay the rent for it, you can move every day of the week, and the Post Office won't care."


Wikipedia page on "GHOSTING"
******************************
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosting_(identity_theft)

"Among other pointers, the pamphlet advised readers to search newspaper archives for old articles about an entire family getting killed in an accident while on vacation outside of their home state. This scenario offers several advantages to a ghoster:

- Because the incident involved multiple deaths, there are multiple candidates (of different ages, and both sexes) for an identity that the ghoster can steal.
- Because the entire family died in the same incident, the dead person whose identity is chosen for ghosting is not likely to have any immediate relatives who are still alive and aware of his death.
- Because the family died outside their home state, their birth records and death records are archived in two different states and are unlikely to be cross-referenced. Also, if the deceased family's remains were not returned to their home community for burial, the staffers in the local records office are unlikely to be aware that the family is deceased and will not be suspicious when someone claiming to be a member of this family requests a copy of his birth certificate.
- Because the deaths occurred years ago, new requests for an old birth certificate are unlikely to stir anyone's memory of that individual's death."
 
This is not true. The SS office has an investigation division. FLEKs case has a case number and is an official and open ongoing investigation. I never saw a post saying otherwise? The SS office has plenty of resources( actually better in some ways, just like the IRS, whom we loved to work with because tax records are a goldmine of info).. They work differently than the FBI. All agencies have their own focus. This case sits with the agency it is supposed to sit with because of the nature of the crime. This was not a personal I treat of Velling, but he did get " attached" to it as he said in his interviews.

Ps- Velling just recently retired, he was not retired before starting this case. The FBI has nothing to do with this case and it is not in their scope of investigation with the information we currently know.

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Thanks for clarifying. I can't get the "oldseattletimes" link to open up (takes me to an "Uh oh! You've reached a dead end!" sort of page), so I've been trying to piece this early history together based on snippets in the thread. I'd read that the SS Admin opened up an investigation in Sep 2011, and knew that she was entered into the missing persons databases (in 2012). I also know there is a contact person on those sites and of course, that the case is still open or we wouldn't be in here scratching our heads over it. :eek:

But the thing with Velling confused me because I'd also read he had been approached by a congressman who handed him "a binder" of stuff from the family "2 years later" - and that the congressman wanted to make sure FLEK wasn't some sort of mole. That snippet gave me the impression that the congressman's action had initiated Velling's investigation into this (like a personal favor), not the SS Administration. (SS opened their case less than 1 year after her death, and I didn't catch at first that Velling was a SSI, specifically.) Other snippets implied Velling was working on this case 'on the side' and one post I'd read said he was now retired. Without the original "oldseattletimes" article I know I'm not getting the full picture, and I'm sorry for bringing confusion into the thread. Is there a copy of that article preserved somewhere (or possibly a different link that works)? The only link I have associated with that original article seems to work only for the media gallery - clicking on "Read the Article" takes me to that 'dead end' screen.

Here's the link I have that's causing me trouble:

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html
 
Thanks for clarifying. I can't get the "oldseattletimes" link to open up (takes me to an "Uh oh! You've reached a dead end!" sort of page), so I've been trying to piece this early history together based on snippets in the thread. I'd read that the SS Admin opened up an investigation in Sep 2011, and knew that she was entered into the missing persons databases (in 2012). I also know there is a contact person on those sites and of course, that the case is still open or we wouldn't be in here scratching our heads over it. :eek:

But the thing with Velling confused me because I'd also read he had been approached by a congressman who handed him "a binder" of stuff from the family "2 years later" - and that the congressman wanted to make sure FLEK wasn't some sort of mole. That snippet gave me the impression that the congressman's action had initiated Velling's investigation into this (like a personal favor), not the SS Administration. (SS opened their case less than 1 year after her death, and I didn't catch at first that Velling was a SSI, specifically.) Other snippets implied Velling was working on this case 'on the side' and one post I'd read said he was now retired. Without the original "oldseattletimes" article I know I'm not getting the full picture, and I'm sorry for bringing confusion into the thread. Is there a copy of that article preserved somewhere (or possibly a different link that works)? The only link I have associated with that original article seems to work only for the media gallery - clicking on "Read the Article" takes me to that 'dead end' screen.

Here's the link I have that's causing me trouble:

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html

Totally agree. It almost seems like official investigation..wink wink. Why would not the FBI not be handling if the congressman thought it could be KGB Mole? Seems a bit haphazard. I want to know if the case is really still open with SSA?
 
From THE PAPER TRIP II (1985)
*****************************

"Eden press now offers ID by MAIL, a complete guide to all the ID firms and their various products. Everything from 'drivers licenses,' state ID cards, student/employee ID, birth certificates, badges, press cards, memberships and diplomas is included. A special feature is an up-to-date section on ID machines, with a list of manufacturers. Price is $19.95." p.15

"Now that you know the date and place of birth, you can easily write to the county recorder and obtain P.W.'s birth certificate. Using this is an out-of-state context (where the person died in a state other than the one in which he is born), you will free yourself from any possible cross-referencing. You can use the certified copy of the birth certificate to obtain a new driver's license, state ID card, etc. You can also send in for a 'duplicate' Social Security card, and get it within a few weeks." p.17

"The safest way to use 'takeover' ID is to use it in a state different from that in which the person was born and died. Since the states are the basic repositories of almost all ID records, rather than any central file, it makes sense to operate in a state in which no records were ever compiled. ALL the federal records, such as Social Security, military, and passport, are initially derived from state records, and will not reflect data which have not originated from the states." p.17

"The COURT method is more foolproof. You may want to have an attorney file all the forms for you and accompany you to court, but it's also possible to prepare all the forms yourself. Clerks of most courts are quite helpful, and will at least tell you all the forms needed and the fees required for filing. They will set up your date for court appearance, and can usually be cajoled into providing other useful tidbits of information as well." p.18

"The way to carry out this new paper trip is to obtain all new ID from the state in which you change your name and then move to the state where you wish to live or operate under your new name. Once in the new state, begin 'trading in' your out-of-state, new ID for ID from your new state. The new state will have no reason to believe you are anyone other than who your old state ID says you are." p.18 (why did she stay in Texas after changing her name there?)



100 WAYS TO DISAPPEAR AND LIVE FREE
************************************
http://www.textfiles.com/survival/dissapp.txt

"It can be super-cool to room in someone else's apartment or home. Check the daily newspapers for ads under heading like 'Rooms to share', 'rentals to share', or 'apartments to share'. This way all records relating to occupancy will already be in someone else's name."

"The basic technique is to recreate the records you want, provide the address of a mail forwarding service as that of the source of those records, and handle all correspondence *yourself*. By using photo duplication of altered documents, a little rubber-stamping, or even some "quick-print" offset printing, you can easily and rather quickly come up with working solutions to some of the most baffling problems in starting a new identity. You can have a field day creating all kinds of "backgrounds". The only limitation is your own imagination. These methods WORK, too!!"

"Receive all your mail at a 24-hour Post Office box. Use your 'legal' address to obtain the box, or any "friendly" address for that matter. Once you have the box, and continue to pay the rent for it, you can move every day of the week, and the Post Office won't care."


Wikipedia page on "GHOSTING"
******************************
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosting_(identity_theft)

"Among other pointers, the pamphlet advised readers to search newspaper archives for old articles about an entire family getting killed in an accident while on vacation outside of their home state. This scenario offers several advantages to a ghoster:

- Because the incident involved multiple deaths, there are multiple candidates (of different ages, and both sexes) for an identity that the ghoster can steal.
- Because the entire family died in the same incident, the dead person whose identity is chosen for ghosting is not likely to have any immediate relatives who are still alive and aware of his death.
- Because the family died outside their home state, their birth records and death records are archived in two different states and are unlikely to be cross-referenced. Also, if the deceased family's remains were not returned to their home community for burial, the staffers in the local records office are unlikely to be aware that the family is deceased and will not be suspicious when someone claiming to be a member of this family requests a copy of his birth certificate.
- Because the deaths occurred years ago, new requests for an old birth certificate are unlikely to stir anyone's memory of that individual's death."

Her story, Thank you for posting all of this. I am not convinced that she stayed in Texas. I think she went away for awhile and she used Texas as part of her identity change. Or, she lived in Texas under another identity for awhile.
 
Thanks for clarifying. I can't get the "oldseattletimes" link to open up (takes me to an "Uh oh! You've reached a dead end!" sort of page), so I've been trying to piece this early history together based on snippets in the thread. I'd read that the SS Admin opened up an investigation in Sep 2011, and knew that she was entered into the missing persons databases (in 2012). I also know there is a contact person on those sites and of course, that the case is still open or we wouldn't be in here scratching our heads over it

But the thing with Velling confused me because I'd also read he had been approached by a congressman who handed him "a binder" of stuff from the family "2 years later" - and that the congressman wanted to make sure FLEK wasn't some sort of mole. That snippet gave me the impression that the congressman's action had initiated Velling's investigation into this (like a personal favor), not the SS Administration. (SS opened their case less than 1 year after her death, and I didn't catch at first that Velling was a SSI, specifically.) Other snippets implied Velling was working on this case 'on the side' and one post I'd read said he was now retired. Without the original "oldseattletimes" article I know I'm not getting the full picture, and I'm sorry for bringing confusion into the thread. Is there a copy of that article preserved somewhere (or possibly a different link that works)? The only link I have associated with that original article seems to work only for the media gallery - clicking on "Read the Article" takes me to that 'dead end' screen.

Here's the link I have that's causing me trouble:

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html

Opens for me, and I'm in Australia :)
 
Thanks for clarifying. I can't get the "oldseattletimes" link to open up (takes me to an "Uh oh! You've reached a dead end!" sort of page), so I've been trying to piece this early history together based on snippets in the thread. I'd read that the SS Admin opened up an investigation in Sep 2011, and knew that she was entered into the missing persons databases (in 2012). I also know there is a contact person on those sites and of course, that the case is still open or we wouldn't be in here scratching our heads over it. :eek:

But the thing with Velling confused me because I'd also read he had been approached by a congressman who handed him "a binder" of stuff from the family "2 years later" - and that the congressman wanted to make sure FLEK wasn't some sort of mole. That snippet gave me the impression that the congressman's action had initiated Velling's investigation into this (like a personal favor), not the SS Administration. (SS opened their case less than 1 year after her death, and I didn't catch at first that Velling was a SSI, specifically.) Other snippets implied Velling was working on this case 'on the side' and one post I'd read said he was now retired. Without the original "oldseattletimes" article I know I'm not getting the full picture, and I'm sorry for bringing confusion into the thread. Is there a copy of that article preserved somewhere (or possibly a different link that works)? The only link I have associated with that original article seems to work only for the media gallery - clicking on "Read the Article" takes me to that 'dead end' screen.

Here's the link I have that's causing me trouble:

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html

I think this is a newer link to that first story...

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2021243552_janedoexml.html
 
Thanks for clarifying. I can't get the "oldseattletimes" link to open up (takes me to an "Uh oh! You've reached a dead end!" sort of page), so I've been trying to piece this early history together based on snippets in the thread. I'd read that the SS Admin opened up an investigation in Sep 2011, and knew that she was entered into the missing persons databases (in 2012). I also know there is a contact person on those sites and of course, that the case is still open or we wouldn't be in here scratching our heads over it. :eek:

But the thing with Velling confused me because I'd also read he had been approached by a congressman who handed him "a binder" of stuff from the family "2 years later" - and that the congressman wanted to make sure FLEK wasn't some sort of mole. That snippet gave me the impression that the congressman's action had initiated Velling's investigation into this (like a personal favor), not the SS Administration. (SS opened their case less than 1 year after her death, and I didn't catch at first that Velling was a SSI, specifically.) Other snippets implied Velling was working on this case 'on the side' and one post I'd read said he was now retired. Without the original "oldseattletimes" article I know I'm not getting the full picture, and I'm sorry for bringing confusion into the thread. Is there a copy of that article preserved somewhere (or possibly a different link that works)? The only link I have associated with that original article seems to work only for the media gallery - clicking on "Read the Article" takes me to that 'dead end' screen.

Here's the link I have that's causing me trouble:

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html

The article is confusing because of its wording and possibly that the writer is also unfamiliar with procedures for opening a case. Anyone can request an investigation. I can walk in or give a tip about SS fraud and they can choose to investigate or not based on what scope of practice the info I give falls under or if it is an actual crime that they could prosecute. Congressmen vas request cases be opened. I assume that is why VELLING was assigned as lead and not just some " underling" investigator( Velling is the HEAD investigator in his office( before retiring). This is a real case, and was never just a side thing being done as a favor. Legally Velling would NEVER use his access for a personal investigation that is HIGHLY ILLEGAL. He could go to prison. So it has been an official case from day 1.


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The article is confusing because of its wording and possibly that the writer is also unfamiliar with procedures for opening a case. Anyone can request an investigation. I can walk in or give a tip about SS fraud and they can choose to investigate or not based on what scope of practice the info I give falls under or if it is an actual crime that they could prosecute. Congressmen vas request cases be opened. I assume that is why VELLING was assigned as lead and not just some " underling" investigator( Velling is the HEAD investigator in his office( before retiring). This is a real case, and was never just a side thing being done as a favor. Legally Velling would NEVER use his access for a personal investigation that is HIGHLY ILLEGAL. He could go to prison. So it has been an official case from day 1.

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Yes, the reporting has been confusing. I have no doubt and have never had a doubt that Velling is and was a competent investigator, that this is a "real" SS case, and that he was also the lead or contact person for this case at the time the 2013 articles came out. That has been evident. Nor have I questioned his ethics as an investigator. So if you're worried about that, you can put those worries to rest. You've posted a few posts after mine about this but I'm wondering if you're confusing me with another poster in the thread who has perhaps expressed disdain for Vellers?

ETA to clarify--What I have learned since my last interchange with you is that he was a SSI working for the SSA, in fact, their lead investigator. Not some other federal investigator, eg. FBI or other. And I learned from other posters prior to that that Vellers was retired, now, though (to my knowledge), still having an avid interest in solving the case.

Again, it was just the conflicting infornation that was confusing to me -- SS opening their official investigation in Sep 2011; Vellers being approached by a congressman "2 years later" (2 years after her death would be around Dec 2012) with a binder of info from the family requesting he look into it. IF the congressman approached Vellers in 2012, he could not have been requesting the case be opened, since it was already opened in 2011. So that whole scenario must be somewhat fictionalized or at least poorly written. That is all.
 
I think in general the timing of the case being open is interesting. The family did have a local PI investigating for a short while which hit a dead end. The family then called in a favor from a family friend in OK ( congressman) who then requested an investigation, as any person you or me or whatever can do. The SSA thought it was case worthy. The dates I can't answer for but Velling couldn't access info by means of his work for a personal interest due to the law. He did retire and another investigator is lead. Velling is keeping up with the case but not able to access any government databases or resources to investigate. I am sure he will always be interested until it is solved. My comments were not directed at you just posted for information. It's been a long week and I am just getting over a horrible week of stomach bug so don't take anything personally, I was dehydrated and hangry all week lol.
I have learned in this case that the press gets LOTS of stuff wrong like the name of the firechief getting mixed up with the girls in the fire article. There are lots of typos on the official docs too. I was surprised by that! People are lazy with details.


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I think in general the timing of the case being open is interesting. The family did have a local PI investigating for a short while which hit a dead end. The family then called in a favor from a family friend in OK ( congressman) who then requested an investigation, as any person you or me or whatever can do. The SSA thought it was case worthy. The dates I can't answer for but Velling couldn't access info by means of his work for a personal interest due to the law. He did retire and another investigator is lead. Velling is keeping up with the case but not able to access any government databases or resources to investigate. I am sure he will always be interested until it is solved. My comments were not directed at you just posted for information. It's been a long week and I am just getting over a horrible week of stomach bug so don't take anything personally, I was dehydrated and hangry all week lol.
I have learned in this case that the press gets LOTS of stuff wrong like the name of the firechief getting mixed up with the girls in the fire article. There are lots of typos on the official docs too. I was surprised by that! People are lazy with details.

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Press has gotten much less reliable since the internet revolution; the whole dynamic has changed. Instead of not going to press until things have been checked and double-checked, the motto now seems to be 'publish first; update (ie. change) the facts later.' Ugh. Don't get me started...

And sorry to read about your giardia - have had that and it's not fun. Cipro works but can create its own problems later. Eat yoghurt, and feel better soon. :)
 
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