TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

[mrseeker]

Yes, the reporting has been confusing. I have no doubt and have never had a doubt that Velling is and was a competent investigator, that this is a "real" SS case, and that he was also the lead or contact person for this case at the time the 2013 articles came out. That has been evident. Nor have I questioned his ethics as an investigator. So if you're worried about that, you can put those worries to rest. You've posted a few posts after mine about this but I'm wondering if you're confusing me with another poster in the thread who has perhaps expressed disdain for Vellers?

ETA to clarify--What I have learned since my last interchange with you is that he was a SSI working for the SSA, in fact, their lead investigator. Not some other federal investigator, eg. FBI or other. And I learned from other posters prior to that that Vellers was retired, now, though (to my knowledge), still having an avid interest in solving the case.

Again, it was just the conflicting infornation that was confusing to me -- SS opening their official investigation in Sep 2011; Vellers being approached by a congressman "2 years later" (2 years after her death would be around Dec 2012) with a binder of info from the family requesting he look into it. IF the congressman approached Vellers in 2012, he could not have been requesting the case be opened, since it was already opened in 2011. So that whole scenario must be somewhat fictionalized or at least poorly written. That is all.

Idk. I think a congressional referral carries a lot of weight with agencies that depend on congressional funding. I have to think that the local sheriff would have an open case at least as a jane doe body. I have heard of cases that are open for years just to try and locate next of kin for a found body. Some are disinterred just for dna samples at the local county's expense. I wonder if they do? They would need leads though to follow up on, including asking for federal help if the leads were out of state. Wonder if the Texas Rangers ever were asked for help? It's seems the SSA's theory is that there might be some third party who assisted..a kind of organized crime around identity theft theory, allowing it to be considered an investigation that might lead to an arrest. He said that in the interview. I kind of think that is conjecture. Anyone could do this, just by reading a book. I still think though,, there is some boyfriend or other male behind this. Would love to know if a man showed up in Texas about that time and changed his name. I know they followed up on the breast implant surgery, but who did she put down as next of kin? The SSA could probably subpoena those records if they exist. We know the implant serial numbers were checked but they were post name change

 

[1&2&3]

Idk. I think a congressional referral carries a lot of weight with agencies that depend on congressional funding.

I think a congressional referral carries a lot of weight is a true statement! If you have a good congressional person who actually responds to his people's needs, it is awesome the mountains they can move! ( I know from personal experience).

As we know, the head investigator, Vellings, worked this case himself. I believe this in itself tells us the top brass was put on this case to try to solve it. After all, Vellings had to report his findings back to the congressman, so he wanted to get to the bottom of it.

It appears Lori did an excellent job in creating this new identity. The Private Eye and the head investigator for SSA were not able to unscramble her journey.

 

[Tardis218]

I think a congressional referral carries a lot of weight is a true statement! If you have a good congressional person who actually responds to his people's needs, it is awesome the mountains they can move! ( I know from personal experience).

As we know, the head investigator, Vellings, worked this case himself. I believe this in itself tells us the top brass was put on this case to try to solve it. After all, Vellings had to report his findings back to the congressman, so he wanted to get to the bottom of it.

It appears Lori did an excellent job in creating this new identity. The Private Eye and the head investigator for SSA were not able to unscramble her journey.

Yeah, with a congressmen getting the top people of this case, and not being able to find anything, it's pretty amazing. I've just joined this forum, based on me finding out this case, so apologies if I'm talking about stuff already covered. But could this expert covering of her identity be due to a "identity broker"? Were there any people like that busted up, sometime in the 80's and 90's in that area?

 

[mrseeker]

I think a congressional referral carries a lot of weight is a true statement! If you have a good congressional person who actually responds to his people's needs, it is awesome the mountains they can move! ( I know from personal experience).

As we know, the head investigator, Vellings, worked this case himself. I believe this in itself tells us the top brass was put on this case to try to solve it. After all, Vellings had to report his findings back to the congressman, so he wanted to get to the bottom of it.

It appears Lori did an excellent job in creating this new identity. The Private Eye and the head investigator for SSA were not able to unscramble her journey.

I am not sure it would have been that hard though. I don't think it would require a mastermind criminal. It was very common knowledge then. I knew about using a dead infants identity back in the 70's and 80's. There were numerous stories about it, and calls for states to fix it. I think Velling uses the theory that a broker was behind it but I think that is merely a suspicion, or perhaps justification for law enforcement to look into it. If there is a third party guilty of a crime, then that is justification. If there is just a dead woman that did this, and nothing to recover, no-one to charge, then its just an interesting jane doe corpse case. I do wonder why nobody has come forward and said, we went to elementary school, or high school together. Something like that. I think the case has had a fair amount of publicity, but maybe not enough for someone who is not internet saavy. Maybe there is some grandmother or some retired teacher who just has not seen this story. I don't know why CBS or NBC has not ran this story. It is very interesting I think.

 

[CaseCracka]

If Unsolved Mysteries ever gets rebooted (again), this should definitely be a top case for them.

 

[Katinka]

I thought I read that her DNA had been submitted to Ancestry.com. The results should have pointed the investigator to someone in her family. For example, I have 3,800 relative matches on Ancestry with 81 matches being 4th cousins or closer. On 23 and Me I have over 300 matches that are 4th cousins or closer. All of the matches for 4th cousins or closer that I have traced have been accurate. It would be very odd if the information from these sites didn't lead to any relative matches.

 

[mrseeker]

I thought I read that her DNA had been submitted to Ancestry.com. The results should have pointed the investigator to someone in her family. For example, I have 3,800 relative matches on Ancestry with 81 matches being 4th cousins or closer. On 23 and Me I have over 300 matches that are 4th cousins or closer. All of the matches for 4th cousins or closer that I have traced have been accurate. It would be very odd if the information from these sites didn't lead to any relative matches.

It did say that in the article. I am too surprise there are no hits, at least according to the article. she is like a phantom.

 

[milkymama]

At the time the DNA was submitted to ancestry, ancestry did not process it for autosomal DNA but rather mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA isn't helpful in finding relatives. It needs to be reprocessed for autosomal DNA matching.

 

[Katinka]

At the time the DNA was submitted to ancestry, ancestry did not process it for autosomal DNA but rather mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA isn't helpful in finding relatives. It needs to be reprocessed for autosomal DNA matching.

Mitochondrial DNA testing will find relatives on the maternal line. http://isogg.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA_tests
I've had a mitochondrial test done with hundreds of matches found from all over the world.

 

[milkymama]

Mitochondrial DNA testing will find relatives on the maternal line. http://isogg.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA_tests
I've had a mitochondrial test done with hundreds of matches found from all over the world.

Right, but it really is only useful for finding relatives on the direct maternal line. That leaves out a lot of other relatives that could be missed. Only relatives of the mother, and the mother's mother, etc. can be matched and only if they also are on the direct female line with no males in between. So nothing from the paternal side and nothing from any paternal grandmothers of maternal grandmothers or mothers of male cousins of maternal grandmothers. Anyone seriously looking for relatives should probably get both mito + autosomal (if female) or the Y DNA + autosomal (if male). This will capture the most possible relatives and clues.

Ancestry doesn't even offer mitochondrial DNA testing anymore, so anyone who submitted DNA after they switched to autosomal only, will not be processed as a possible match. All matching on mito ceased when Ancestry stopped offering the mito test. And super-unfortunately, Ancestry actually destroyed all previously submitted mitochondrial and Y DNA samples when they switched to doing the autosomal testing 2 years ago. It would be VERY helpful for the autosomal DNA to be run for her if there is a sample left anywhere. The only other option would be her daughter to submit her own DNA when she is an adult, assuming she was not conceived with a donor egg.

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/limits-mtdna-testing

http://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2014/06/12/comments-on-y-dna-and-mtdna-tests/

Edited to Add: Ancestry also apparently deleted the results from mito tests from what I can tell, so unless Velling or someone downloaded them prior to Sept 5, 2014, those are gone too and we can't view any matches that ever did exist.

 

[Katinka]

Agreed, but some DNA result would be better than none. I really hope someone from the SS office downloaded the results before they were removed.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I am not sure it would have been that hard though. I don't think it would require a mastermind criminal. It was very common knowledge then. I knew about using a dead infants identity back in the 70's and 80's. There were numerous stories about it, and calls for states to fix it. I think Velling uses the theory that a broker was behind it but I think that is merely a suspicion, or perhaps justification for law enforcement to look into it. If there is a third party guilty of a crime, then that is justification. If there is just a dead woman that did this, and nothing to recover, no-one to charge, then its just an interesting jane doe corpse case. I do wonder why nobody has come forward and said, we went to elementary school, or high school together. Something like that. I think the case has had a fair amount of publicity, but maybe not enough for someone who is not internet saavy. Maybe there is some grandmother or some retired teacher who just has not seen this story. I don't know why CBS or NBC has not ran this story. It is very interesting I think.

BBM

I think it's probably because the people who knew her way back then knew her under a different name and I believe her appearance may have also been different. She claimed to have had a problem with bulimia; her weight may have fluctuated from year to year. Also, if she were involved with drugs in her twenties, her appearance would be markedly changed from what someone might remember from her schooldays. I'm also thinking she may have changed schools a lot, which would also make her even less memorable to classmates.

That said, I think the primary reason no one has yet come forward is that those who knew her best in that missing decade are either in prison, dead, or very close to her, and guarding her secret(s) for the sake of her daughter.

 

[dvo]

I wonder if we focus too much on the fact that no one who knew her has come forward. I'm fascinated by this kind of mystery, but I just kind of stumbled upon it - it hasn't actually received a ton of mainstream publicity, LEK is really only super famous in the internet sleuthsphere. We know she was kind of an antisocial recluse who, when she wasn't working as an "independent consultant" bounced around contract and part-time jobs, so she probably didn't have that much of a relationship with her employers or coworkers. It sounds like the people who knew her as LEK or LER respect her privacy too much to speculate, or simply aren't interested in her or discussing the mystery, at least not with strangers or the media. I have no doubt the Ruffs themselves have more information than has been shared in the media or online, but it seems they are completely horrified by the publicity and want that part of their lives to disappear. They may even be quashing publicity to whatever extent they can. Even if this case got a ton of mainstream publicity, like airing on a Dateline-type tv show or being blasted through social media... her social world was so small. Who knows if her picture would jog the memory of someone she knew decades ago, or if it did, if they'd care to get involved and make any comments about it. What are the odds? Anyway, I personally don't think the fact that no one comes forward about her necessarily means she escaped from a cult or is from outside the States. Canada is possible, but the numbers make it much less likely. I feel like the Ruffs have a good idea at this point as to who she was, and are purposefully making sure it stays quiet for their family's reputation. Even if the story isn't really so horrible, it is probably just something the Ruff's consider embarrassing.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Perhaps Ruffs were informed by her family members, and things are being kept quiet as a mutual agreement and for the sake of the daughter/granddaughter. I don't necessarily think, if Ruffs know, that they are keeping quiet out of a haughty concern for their East Texas family reputation, in other words. Perhaps more a regard for the young daughter's privacy. JMO, (though a strongly held one).

 

[lisapr355]

Perhaps Ruffs were informed by her family members, and things are being kept quiet as a mutual agreement and for the sake of the daughter/granddaughter. I don't necessarily think, if Ruffs know, that they are keeping quiet out of a haughty concern for their East Texas family reputation, in other words. Perhaps more a regard for the young daughter's privacy. JMO, (though a strongly held one).

I have followed this for a while, due to living in TX and having a close friend who did something similar after her daughter was born. I won't go into those details, but understand why the family would want to protect the privacy of the child. My opinion is exactly like yours. There is a child here and I have seen a total disregard by some for that child. Someone has posted her photo in places which may jeopardize her safety. Someday, her family may tell her what they know and possibly the maternal line has contacted them, may even know the little one. I've come to the point that the internet does more harm than many realize.

 

[HerStory]

I have to run to work, but came across this...... anybody feel like checking it out?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Church_of_Christ

 

[mrseeker]

I have followed this for a while, due to living in TX and having a close friend who did something similar after her daughter was born. I won't go into those details, but understand why the family would want to protect the privacy of the child. My opinion is exactly like yours. There is a child here and I have seen a total disregard by some for that child. Someone has posted her photo in places which may jeopardize her safety. Someday, her family may tell her what they know and possibly the maternal line has contacted them, may even know the little one. I've come to the point that the internet does more harm than many realize.

I think you have made a great point. Blake's family has a little girl to worry about, which is more important than solving this mystery. Like you said, maybe it is solved, and they have no interest in bring more publicity to it. I would still like to know, but my nosiness is not really important. It would be interesting to know the truth though.

 

[scruffydog]

I've just started to follow this case, but was it discussed where the gun came from that was used in Lor's "suicide"? Thanks

 

[ilovepierre]

I was once at a Boots pharmacy while in England. The clerk asked if she could help me and I said, "no, I am good.... thanks."
She then says "oh what part are you from?"
Me: "Oh, I am not from the States...."
Her: "No, I can tell by your accent that you're from Canada. My husband and I traveled there once."
LOL I was in shock, because I never thought we have accents compared to Americans. The lady said that to her we sound "dainty Irish" (whatever that means).

Also! When I did that regional online test the other day, it was bang on.

I did it too, but it was off by a long shot lol.
I'm from Alberta, yet it said that according to my dialects, I'm from Buffalo or Ft. Lauderdale 😂

 

[ilovepierre]

I can spot you when you say Process. LOL. Then there is the word about. and of course Z zed

The about pronunciation isn't Canada wide though. It's more of an Eastern Canada pronunciation.
I can usuall tell when someone is from Ontario or farther East because they will pronounce it as "aboot."
I've had Americans guess what province I'm from and they're bang on every time. Everyone I talk to can tell that I'm Canadian and that I must be from Alberta because of my accent. I don't know how different my accent is to someone who lives in California but apparently, it is.