TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

[Beezneez]

Looks like different lenders do things differently, my experience was from a long time ago and it might have been some special type of loan. The key though is that the university reported back on if you were enrolled. If not they would have defaulted. If I remember correctly, I think FLEK took out the loan in the early 1990's and filed for bankruptcy in the late 1990's. If she had defaulted on the loans by not paying her tuition, the bank would have been after her soon after she took out the loan, not years later.

I called a friend who works in the registrar of Idaho State University- unless it is some off the wall private loan, student loans are paid to the university. Then, if there is money left over (books, living expenses, so on) the university issues a "change check". Also, as long as she was enrolled at least part time in a university the payment on the loans would have been differed until graduation was reported.

I agree that she was older than she stated! The striped button down was kind of a look in the 80's, but I just had to search it out a little more. Wouldn't it be some weird little detail to just blow this all open? :laughing:

 

[sunnynz]

Also it's against the TOS to mention PM's to other people in the discussion.

Thanks, and apologies, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[sunnynz]

Welcome OBrunhilde!

I admittedly have not done much digging into the BST family or even looked at that other family. I was under the impression the T's had been ruled out from DNA evidence but if that's not the case, I wonder why? I would be interested in your summary when you have time to type it up. Thanks!

As far as I know the T family were ruled out through them saying they didn't recognise FLEK when questioned by agent Velling. Not through DNA.

 

[Gardener1850]

As far as I know the T family were ruled out through them saying they didn't recognise FLEK when questioned by agent Velling. Not through DNA.

Interesting. I suppose there is a legal reason they couldn't ask for a DNA test. Not enough probable cause? Would it be legal for them to run FLEK's DNA against a database like AncestryDNA? If the police can't do that then at the very least I would think there is nothing stopping FLEK's daughter from doing it on her own when she becomes an adult (assuming she is genetically related to FLEK and not from a donor egg).

 

[OBrunhilde!]

Welcome OBrunhilde! Glad you decided to join the discussion. I agree that the H family seems like the best lead we have had so far. I personally haven't had time to research the family, but I've seen some pretty convincing work that others have done. As somebody else mentioned we can't post the pictures here, but there are some FB pages that are dedicated to FLEK. Also it's against the TOS to mention PM's to other people in the discussion.

Thank you, ClaireNC, for both the welcome and the guidance-- appreciated muchly.

 

[Gardener1850]

This is good point. I do wonder though, if she kept changing her address, how long could she avoid paying her loans? It would eventually go to collections and then the collections people would have to track her down. If she had another identity that she was legally working under during that time it might have been very difficult to find her, IMO.

So I went back and looked at the timeline and media thread again: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?215578-Timeline-and-Media-Thread-*NO-DISCUSSION*

The loan application we have is for the 1996-97 school year. It's here: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2mi2902&s=5#.V2vdQqKkzTo

On the timeline she filed for bankruptcy by Feb 1997.

Here's the current academic schedule for UTA: http://www.uta.edu/uta/acadcal.php?session=20166
Fall classes start Aug 25. US academic calendar runs Fall-Spring. I am a making a big assumption Fall classes at UTA started around the same time back in the 90's. But let's say she enrolled or intended to enroll in fall classes late Aug or early Sept 1996. Around 6 months from the date she would have started the classes she was filing for bankruptcy. So she didn't manage to evade collections for years. Plus, as another poster mentioned above, loans are deferred until you get out of school. There is also a grace period once you finish school to allow you time to find a job. Different loans have different grace periods but it seems the common minimum is 6 months AFTER you stop taking classes.

SO roughly 6 months after she took out a student loan she was in bad enough financial situation she had to file for bankruptcy. If she had gone to even one semester of college those loans would have been deferred. Y'all can draw your own conclusions but I conclude she never even went to college but merely used her fake ID to get the loan money (MOO). Which leads me to wonder...did she have other fake ID's she did the same thing with? Does anyone know if there is a public database of people who filed for bankruptcy? If we could find other cases that follow this same pattern in the same area (Dallas-Ft Worth) maybe we could find another fake ID FLEK used?

 

[Weyden]

I need to go back and re-read but I'm not sure we even have evidence she actually went to those colleges. We have her student loan application (correct? did I dream this, now I can't find it) and evidence she filed for bankruptcy for failure to pay the loans back. For all we know, she could have managed to take out the loans, live it up on the loan money and not worry about working for a few years. Or she used the money to live on and laid low until she was more certain she would not be found by whoever she was hiding from. Do we have her name listed in a graduation program anywhere? Do we have her picture on a student ID? Do we have a picture of her diploma(s)? No, we have GED test results and her resume which could be fake. We also have a parachuting certificate, which is not a cheap hobby, IMO. And after all those years in college, not one person that remembers her? Not one teacher or fellow student she might have studied with? No roommates coming forward with stories? Just one guy who claims he was her boyfriend when she was a dancer and that "she had too many problems". If she was getting money illegally or doing drugs, how did she manage to do that for 22 years without being arrested once? She didn't even have a parking ticket as far as we know...I have to wonder if she grew more paranoid as technology increased and video cameras increased and everyone started posting photos of things as mundane as business meetings online...And if her age was really much older than she claimed she must have worried about how to explain her early menopause and aging going on...Just random thoughts I'm having...I don't think she had Aspergers...I do agree she seems like a mentally unstable person--results of all the years of lies and/or trauma from what she was ran from?--MOO.

It's just unbelievable, isn't it? Every time I've tried to do a "start fresh" on this, the nearly empty "Know For Sure" column just stares at me. Even some things I would have put in that column at one time, I shifted to the "Probably" or "One-person Source" column because I'm not sure how much faith to put into some of the original sources of information.

I'm amazed that nobody who knew her before the name change(s) has identified her (I mean, I'm REALLY amazed by that) but I still can't believe that people who knew her (as Lori Ruff, that is) haven't been heard from either. She wasn't completely isolated during that time and she had acquaintances if not real friends. Isn't there always one in every crowd who just can't resist a scenario where they might have information that others really want? Or even if they're not seeking attention, isn't there someone who cared about her and really wants to know what led to her taking her own life? I would even think that the relative anonymity of the internet would make it so that there would lot of comments from people claiming to be insiders and sorting fact from fiction would be the task. Instead, there is so little information out there that if someone came on here claiming to know her and said, "She lived in a pineapple under the sea" I'd thank them and start researching pineapples and seas.

 

[Gardener1850]

It's just unbelievable, isn't it? Every time I've tried to do a "start fresh" on this, the nearly empty "Know For Sure" column just stares at me. Even some things I would have put in that column at one time, I shifted to the "Probably" or "One-person Source" column because I'm not sure how much faith to put into some of the original sources of information.

I'm amazed that nobody who knew her before the name change(s) has identified her (I mean, I'm REALLY amazed by that) but I still can't believe that people who knew her (as Lori Ruff, that is) haven't been heard from either. She wasn't completely isolated during that time and she had acquaintances if not real friends. Isn't there always one in every crowd who just can't resist a scenario where they might have information that others really want? Or even if they're not seeking attention, isn't there someone who cared about her and really wants to know what led to her taking her own life? I would even think that the relative anonymity of the internet would make it so that there would lot of comments from people claiming to be insiders and sorting fact from fiction would be the task. Instead, there is so little information out there that if someone came on here claiming to know her and said, "She lived in a pineapple under the sea" I'd thank them and start researching pineapples and seas.

This is an excellent summary! And exactly how I feel. I have to wonder if there are people who know her true identity but they also have been living double lives/fake IDs and don't dare reveal her ID without compromising their own fraud game. She didn't come from no where. She had to ACTUALLY live somewhere while orchestrating all these fake addresses, fake phone numbers, fake everything.

This morning I looked up the info on her student loan app. She used a PO Box and a phone number that leads to a mobile home business started in 2007. Prior to that the number belonged to a business park address. Too much turn over and too many tenants to check them all and likely she was never there anyway. Another dead end. :banghead:

 

[Gardener1850]

So I went back and looked at the timeline and media thread again: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?215578-Timeline-and-Media-Thread-*NO-DISCUSSION*

The loan application we have is for the 1996-97 school year. It's here: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2mi2902&s=5#.V2vdQqKkzTo

On the timeline she filed for bankruptcy by Feb 1997.

Here's the current academic schedule for UTA: http://www.uta.edu/uta/acadcal.php?session=20166
Fall classes start Aug 25. US academic calendar runs Fall-Spring. I am a making a big assumption Fall classes at UTA started around the same time back in the 90's. But let's say she enrolled or intended to enroll in fall classes late Aug or early Sept 1996. Around 6 months from the date she would have started the classes she was filing for bankruptcy. So she didn't manage to evade collections for years. Plus, as another poster mentioned above, loans are deferred until you get out of school. There is also a grace period once you finish school to allow you time to find a job. Different loans have different grace periods but it seems the common minimum is 6 months AFTER you stop taking classes.

SO roughly 6 months after she took out a student loan she was in bad enough financial situation she had to file for bankruptcy. If she had gone to even one semester of college those loans would have been deferred. Y'all can draw your own conclusions but I conclude she never even went to college but merely used her fake ID to get the loan money (MOO). Which leads me to wonder...did she have other fake ID's she did the same thing with? Does anyone know if there is a public database of people who filed for bankruptcy? If we could find other cases that follow this same pattern in the same area (Dallas-Ft Worth) maybe we could find another fake ID FLEK used?

And I just realized that she completed the Parachuting class Sept 7, 1996! So she totally took that student loan money she got and blew it on something she always wanted to do, IMO. Man, I was totally giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was some victim in hiding and thought maybe she really tried to better herself with an education that could have fallen through for any number of reasons (people drop out of college for valid reason like health all the time!), but nope. I can't believe that one bit anymore. All MOO of course. Sorry if these dots have already been connected elsewhere. The more I look at the case the more appalled I am that she got away with this charade!

 

[anonymess]

I called a friend who works in the registrar of Idaho State University- unless it is some off the wall private loan, student loans are paid to the university. Then, if there is money left over (books, living expenses, so on) the university issues a "change check". Also, as long as she was enrolled at least part time in a university the payment on the loans would have been differed until graduation was reported.

I agree that she was older than she stated! The striped button down was kind of a look in the 80's, but I just had to search it out a little more. Wouldn't it be some weird little detail to just blow this all open? :laughing:

Could you ask your friend if there is a legal way to verify a person graduated from a university via the school?

 

[lisapr355]

My husband and I are professors in TX. Normally, to verify a student, one needs the SS number to verify graduation and/or attendance.

 

[sunnynz]

And I just realized that she completed the Parachuting class Sept 7, 1996! So she totally took that student loan money she got and blew it on something she always wanted to do, IMO. Man, I was totally giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was some victim in hiding and thought maybe she really tried to better herself with an education that could have fallen through for any number of reasons (people drop out of college for valid reason like health all the time!), but nope. I can't believe that one bit anymore. All MOO of course. Sorry if these dots have already been connected elsewhere. The more I look at the case the more appalled I am that she got away with this charade!

I don't believe I've ever seen it all pieced together like this, very interesting, thanks. I think we assumed she did take classes at UT.

 

[sunnynz]

This is an excellent summary! And exactly how I feel. I have to wonder if there are people who know her true identity but they also have been living double lives/fake IDs and don't dare reveal her ID without compromising their own fraud game. She didn't come from no where. She had to ACTUALLY live somewhere while orchestrating all these fake addresses, fake phone numbers, fake everything.

This morning I looked up the info on her student loan app. She used a PO Box and a phone number that leads to a mobile home business started in 2007. Prior to that the number belonged to a business park address. Too much turn over and too many tenants to check them all and likely she was never there anyway. Another dead end. :banghead:

I really think that the lack of people coming forward to identify her either indicates that she was in a fostering/group home type situation and possibly moved around a lot - or the people in her background have enough of a criminal element to their own lives that they aren't interested in coming forward and having people look too closely into their business.

 

[creepedout]

I came across this by accident just now. Has this record ever been discovered and/or investigated?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ62-3YTX

The dates make no sense compared to when she was apparently in Idaho getting the false ID. But the address is identical.

There's also this, but I'm not sure if it's related:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJPH-72PT

There's also marriage records for Becky Sue Turner in Clark County NV in 1988 and 1995, but I'm not sure if they're the same person:

https://familysearch.org/search/rec...es" +record_subcountry:"United States,Nevada"

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I came across this by accident just now. Has this record ever been discovered and/or investigated?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ62-3YTX

The dates make no sense compared to when she was apparently in Idaho getting the false ID. But the address is identical.

There's also this, but I'm not sure if it's related:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJPH-72PT

There's also marriage records for Becky Sue Turner in Clark County NV in 1988 and 1995, but I'm not sure if they're the same person:

https://familysearch.org/search/rec...es" +record_subcountry:"United States,Nevada"

As to the second link, North "Bogus" Basin road? I think that answers your own question. Everything about this woman was bogus and this is probably just another "bogus" address literally and pun very much intended.

I think that resume was just another time gap filler like the letter of reference. She may well have been living in Idaho for those time periods but probably under some other name we don't even know about. She may have gotten credit cards etc under BST during that time period and that record was grabbed by some address gathering company. We will never know.

So, now that I've offered my opinion, I'm off to see if there really is a "North Bogus Road" somewhere in Idaho. Hope I don't have to eat crow.

Edited to add: Can I have some salt and pepper for my crow? I still have to wonder about her choice to live on this road.

 

[creepedout]

Bogus Basin Road is a real address, I already checked.

 

[Linda9681]

Interesting...


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[velvetmonologue]

But if they chose to leave thier name would that not give their first and last name? They might not have wanted to become searchable, you cant find too much with just a first name. You cant even tell if its a female or male Sandy.

I think its their name, if the were adressing flek it would be

I hope you have found peace Sandy.

Instead it was

I hope you have found peace, Sandy.

The Sandy is seperated from message as a sign off by the commer. Thats the way I read it anyway.

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Hello, first time commenting here, but I've read through a lot of this since learning about/becoming fascinated with this case, and I admire how dedicated you all are to helping solve it. Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents about this findgrave post, because I think there's a misunderstanding about the grammar aspect. It IS proper to use a comma when someone is being addressed. For example: "Happy Birthday, Sandy!", "I don't think so, Sandy.", "Thanks for the cake, Sandy", "I hope you have found peace, Sandy". So, if the person commenting a) is not trolling, and b) indeed uses proper grammar, then it would seem that they ARE addressing LEK as Sandy. Imagine if this person truly knows who LEK is!

Here is a source that states the proper use for a comma when addressing someone: http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/commas_with_vocative_case.htm because I know I wouldn't just take my word for it either. I really hope this helps.

 

[Linda9681]

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[Linda9681]

Hello, first time commenting here, but I've read through a lot of this since learning about/becoming fascinated with this case, and I admire how dedicated you all are to helping solve it. Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents about this findgrave post, because I think there's a misunderstanding about the grammar aspect. It IS proper to use a comma when someone is being addressed. For example: "Happy Birthday, Sandy!", "I don't think so, Sandy.", "Thanks for the cake, Sandy", "I hope you have found peace, Sandy". So, if the person commenting a) is not trolling, and b) indeed uses proper grammar, then it would seem that they ARE addressing LEK as Sandy. Imagine if this person truly knows who LEK is!

Here is a source that states the proper use for a comma when addressing someone: http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/commas_with_vocative_case.htm because I know I wouldn't just take my word for it either. I really hope this helps.

Thank you for this. There is one issue, we don't know if the person who posted knows proper grammar.. So we can't assume either way


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