TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

[awillis0513]

But I really do think it's possible FLEK didn't live in the Dallas area the whole time. Most her addresses were near the airport--making it easy for her to come for a weekend and visit Dallas from time to time to pick up her mail.

Something that has bothered me through this case (which I didn't remember until you brought up airports) is that it used to be relatively more expensive to fly than it is now. See this article from The Atlantic Monthly: http://www.theatlantic.com/business...50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/

I know we have evidence that FLEK was making money as a dancer at one point, but do we feel she had the resources to fly to the different areas that have come up in our search? And, if we believe she did, where did she come up with this money?

Or...maybe...she was a stewardess. (That's just something to throw out there, totally in the dark.)

My humble opinion and thoughts.


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[awillis0513]

Thank you for doing the FOI request! I don't know anything about how to do that. I'm really looking forward to seeing if there is any new info.
I'm not sure if this is possible, but could one of you submit a FOI request for Lori's suicide investigation as well? I know this case has never been about solving the suicide but we might get a copy of a portion of the suicide notes to compare handwriting or we might learn new information we don't know about Lori from that investigation's notes. Even in a clear-cut case of suicide there would be a police report, right?

I am looking into that. FOIA only covers the Feds but Texas has a law that should also work. Sending to Dolly Welch.


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[awillis0513]

LOL, I was gonna offer to use my poly sci degree, but I think you got this "A". Beats watching news reports of the political convention!

Yeah, I'm in finance now, so all of those administrative law classes have been wasted!


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[Tardis218]

As for her potential transience . . . how about as a carnie? Were there fairs or state fairs around these locations at this time?

There were a ton of state fairs in the states we knew she had a connection to (California, Idaho, Texas, and Nevada due to her PO box she had)

Starting in the order I have before:

- California Exposition (held in various Cali cities by the looks of it)
- Western Idaho Fair (held in Garden City)
- Eastern Idaho State Fair (held in Blackfoot)
- Nevada State Fair (held in Reno)

All of these were active during the 70's and 80's by the looks of it.

 

[Gardener1850]

As for her potential transience . . . how about as a carnie? Were there fairs or state fairs around these locations at this time?

Hmm...Good idea! I was trying to figure out if there were any seasonal jobs that were in Dallas only in the Summer time. Her showing up as very tan in her Texas ID photo compared to that first Idaho ID makes me think she could have had a job working outside.

 

[awillis0513]

Hmm...Good idea! I was trying to figure out if there were any seasonal jobs that were in Dallas only in the Summer time. Her showing up as very tan in her Texas ID photo compared to that first Idaho ID makes me think she could have had a job working outside.

Maybe some sort of migrant work? (But unless she was in an isolated community, I'm sure a young white woman would stick out.)


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[Tardis218]

There were a ton of state fairs in the states we knew she had a connection to (California, Idaho, Texas, and Nevada due to her PO box she had)

Starting in the order I have before:

- California Exposition (held in various Cali cities by the looks of it)
- Western Idaho Fair (held in Garden City)
- Eastern Idaho State Fair (held in Blackfoot)
- Nevada State Fair (held in Reno)

All of these were active during the 70's and 80's by the looks of it.

Forgot the Texan carnivals:

- South Texas State Fair (held in Beaumont)
- State Fair of Texas (held in Dallas)
- East Texas State Fair (held in Tyler)
- North Texas State Fair (held in Denton)

 

[Gardener1850]

Something that has bothered me through this case (which I didn't remember until you brought up airports) is that it used to be relatively more expensive to fly than it is now. See this article from The Atlantic Monthly: http://www.theatlantic.com/business...50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/

I know we have evidence that FLEK was making money as a dancer at one point, but do we feel she had the resources to fly to the different areas that have come up in our search? And, if we believe she did, where did she come up with this money?

Or...maybe...she was a stewardess. (That's just something to throw out there, totally in the dark.)

My humble opinion and thoughts.


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This is a good point about the cost of airfare. If she was traveling to Dallas for a job, however, her employer could have paid for her flights. I think that was common enough in the 80's and she would have a legit reason to be in Dallas. Another possibility is that she might have known someone with a private pilot's license that would take her to Dallas from time to time. The parachuting certificate could be an indication that she had an interest in planes and flying. We don't know who the witness (Christian Shave/Shaver) was who signed that certificate but it may have been a pilot friend with a skydiving hobby that encouraged LEK to try parachuting. Just throwing out suggestions

 

[Gardener1850]

Maybe some sort of migrant work? (But unless she was in an isolated community, I'm sure a young white woman would stick out.)


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I think she could be Hispanic or from a Gypsy background. She liked Cuban food which is a strangely specific ethnic cuisine to choose when Mexican food is much more ubiquitous in the U.S. It makes me want to place her or one of her parents as being from Cuba. Hispanic people can have any skin tone from fair to dark. Even if she is not Hispanic her job may have involved working with Cuban migrant workers and she picked up a love of their food that way. I also see Turkish as a possible background. It's a shame we don't have her DNA results to look at.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

The stewardess angle crossed my mind as well. Sure would lead to anonymity in your job. Don't know that one would really bond with any coworkers if you flew a lot of different routes.

 

[Gardener1850]

Another thought, if she worked primarily with migrants in her real life then that could also explain why no one has come forward to talk about her, not even on anonymous message boards. The language barrier would mean they would be less likely to have even seen this story in the press. And if they had seen the story, many migrant workers could feel at risk of being deported if they are not here legally. They have no reason to speak up and draw attention to themselves. JMO.

 

[awillis0513]

You know, we've been wondering why no one has come forward, and this has been a story that took off on the Internet. This led me to think, "How many people don't use the Internet or have access?"

Pew Research found 15% of Americans don't use the internet.

They found: "The latest Pew Research analysis also shows that internet non-adoption is correlated to a number of demographic variables, including age, educational attainment, household income, race and ethnicity, and community type."

Which is broad, but we could easily figure out a list of communities that don't have Internet access.

JMO.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/28/15-of-americans-dont-use-the-internet-who-are-they/


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[awillis0513]

I came across a strange public records entry for Fred H. on Familysearch. It's someone's name in Ponder, Texas which is in Denton, County. It says this man is "also known as" Fred A H****r.
They appear to be connected via an address in Valley, Washington. Fred H died in Valley, WA. That address, however, does not exist. It doesn't come up in any reverse address searches and looking at it with Google earth you can see there is nothing there.
This man, GS, has a Texas birth record, marriage record, etc. He appears legit on paper--meaning he is not just an alias that Fred H. used at some point. But I can't explain why this GS would be listed as AKA Fred H. Anyone have any thoughts?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ4Q-PL2W

PS: His wife and her parents have an interesting address history. Namely, her parents lived in Scottsdale, AZ around 1996-97. I can't find her in present day or find any yearbook photos, but I have strong doubts she could be FLEK because they had 3 children in the late 1990's. Seems unlikely FLEK could go missing (in either 2004 or 2010) and not trigger any search from her 3 kids.

Could this be Jr? She could easily be another relative. You figure, they go between WA and TX, they use aliases. Perhaps they were involved in extensive frauds and misdoings. Perhaps a modern day gypsy family.

MOO...again, throwing out possibilities.


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[Gardener1850]

You know, we've been wondering why no one has come forward, and this has been a story that took off on the Internet. This led me to think, "How many people don't use the Internet or have access?"

Pew Research found 15% of Americans don't use the internet.

They found: "The latest Pew Research analysis also shows that internet non-adoption is correlated to a number of demographic variables, including age, educational attainment, household income, race and ethnicity, and community type."

Which is broad, but we could easily figure out a list of communities that don't have Internet access.

JMO.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/28/15-of-americans-dont-use-the-internet-who-are-they/


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Interesting survey. It would be even more interesting if they had polled HOW different groups use the internet. I bet most people have internet on their phones and use it for paying bills. It's almost impossible to live without using the internet at all now. Most of the utilities I pay charge extra to send a paper bill or offer a discount if you pay online. So most people have to use the internet for something basic like that, but that doesn't mean people use the internet equally to view news or for social media. My in laws only use the internet to pay bills and send email. They don't understand social media or message boards like this and they depend on their TV still for news. My parents are online and use social media somewhat to keep up with the grand kids but they don't use the internet for a source of news and information much. They still watch the evening news every night and still read the newspaper in the morning. If this story doesn't run on their local news or the national nightly news or as a headline in their local paper and they won't hear about it. Bottom line is we need a major television network to run this story to get FLEK's picture out to more people. There just doesn't seem to be interest though. MOO.

 

[Gardener1850]

Could this be Jr? She could easily be another relative. You figure, they go between WA and TX, they use aliases. Perhaps they were involved in extensive frauds and misdoings. Perhaps a modern day gypsy family.

MOO...again, throwing out possibilities.


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I was thinking it could be Fred Jr as well but it just doesn't make sense because the alias appears to be a real person. I can trace his family tree 4+ generations back in Texas. He has a brother, a wife and kids. I was trying to find a legit reason their names could be co-mingled like a business partner connection but I can't come up with anything...It's not even like their names are similar. I know someone with a fairly common name (think John Smith) that had credit issues because someone else with his name had run up a bunch of credit cards and not paid his bills. He had to fight to get this other guys credit history taken off of his record because apparently they lived in the same apartment but different years. Their SS#'s, date of birth, and general demographics are completely different but all it took is one address and a same name to link them on a credit report. So I'm thinking, how sensitive is the Familysearch public records database that connects names? Could this linking just be an error on their part? IDK. I'm just trying to make sense of it without making an accusation of ID theft. MOO.

 

[HawkFan2014]

Excellent resource and I think you may be onto something RE: Why did she stay in Texas? I suspect she did not stay in Texas full time at first or she had some kind of job that allowed her to go between Texas and another state on a regular basis. Maybe she was her real identity while in her home state and became LEK when in Texas? I'm not sure what she would have gotten out of that scenario, however. She could not use the illegally obtained SS# anywhere but where she was living in Texas or else the SS office would have a record of it.

If we go with the idea that she used the name LK but used her own birth date/SS# outside of Texas, I found a very interesting case of another LK who lived in Washington state and her husband actually had changed his last name to Kennedy from his given name--(he died in 1996 and his SS records listed his given last name and the name change). Weird thing is I can not find that LK's maiden name, her parents or anything else about her other than an address history and her date of birth from that address history. The latest date I can find her is 2004 in Washington. Then she seems to disappear. She had 3 kids in the early 80's but they would have been adults by 2004. Could she have taken out the student loan when her husband died in 1996 and then moved to Texas permanently in 2004 to marry Ruff? I can't get out of my head that one of her kids would notice she was missing by now, however if she were FLEK.

But I really do think it's possible FLEK didn't live in the Dallas area the whole time. Most her addresses were near the airport--making it easy for her to come for a weekend and visit Dallas from time to time to pick up her mail.

I think she was back in Los Angeles trying to work. Look at the passport photo. See REPS in the background? I'm thinking she used her VISAGES REPS headshot. Yes, it could be a photo taken prior to 1988. I think see looks older and bangs are longer when comparing to Idaho ID photo.

 

[Gardener1850]

I think she was back in Los Angeles trying to work. Look at the passport photo. See REPS in the background? I'm thinking she used her VISAGES REPS headshot. Yes, it could be a photo taken prior to 1988. I think see looks older and bangs are longer when comparing to Idaho ID photo.

A great observation HawkFan! I wondered about that lettering in the background of that photo but for some reason I had not realized it was her passport photo. I thought that was something on the ID or the word REPRINT stamped on the copy and I dismissed it as not important. I like your guess though. Can anyone find a similar photo of someone else from Visages to verify they put that watermark on their headshots? If we could find that we would have evidence she was a VISAGES model and I would think that would be a solid lead.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

A great observation HawkFan! I wondered about that lettering in the background of that photo but for some reason I had not realized it was her passport photo. I thought that was something on the ID or the word REPRINT stamped on the copy and I dismissed it as not important. I like your guess though. Can anyone find a similar photo of someone else from Visages to verify they put that watermark on their headshots? If we could find that we would have evidence she was a VISAGES model and I would think that would be a solid lead.

I just googles "Visages Reps" and it brought up a Websleuths link. Just putting it here in case there's any info you all hadn't spotted yet! First reference is post #13 and was 3 years ago.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?215630-Jeung-Lish

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I think she was back in Los Angeles trying to work. Look at the passport photo. See REPS in the background? I'm thinking she used her VISAGES REPS headshot. Yes, it could be a photo taken prior to 1988. I think see looks older and bangs are longer when comparing to Idaho ID photo.

Hi HawkFan, can you give me the rundown on the Visages headshot? (What is REPS?)

Also, while on the topic of photos, can anyone tell me why investigators have said the LEK TX license photo (where she is wearing a white golf shirt and very tan) was "taken in 1997"? (If it's because it was taken at the time of her getting that driver's license on Jul 13, "1997 or after" according to the timeline, just wondering why we don't have the photo from the TX driver's license prior to that -- the one she got April 18, 1989 "stating she is 19 years old" (per the timeline). Has that been explained?

Because usually photos don't change that often in TX - and she didn't appear to age much. So I'm wondering if that white golf shirt photo on the 1997 license was maybe taken earlier for the 1989 license/photo and then used again for her 1997 license. She looks quite young in it. (I've had the same photo on my TX license for over 25 yrs. If that's a problem please don't tell anyone; I've grown to appreciate it with each passing year. )

Review per WS and Seattle Times Timelines:

1988 Jul 13 - Obtains a Texas ID card (per Seattle Times)
1989 Apr 18 - LEK gets a TX Driver's license stating she is 19 yrs old
1997 (or after) Jul 13 - got a TX Driver's license with name Lori Erica Kennedy on it and a photo that Vellers states was "taken in 1997" (white golf shirt photo)

ETA: Cags, you read my mind. Thanks for the link about Visages.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Could this be Jr? She could easily be another relative. You figure, they go between WA and TX, they use aliases. Perhaps they were involved in extensive frauds and misdoings. Perhaps a modern day gypsy family.

MOO...again, throwing out possibilities.


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In reference to GS posted by Gardener1850, I found no name change record for GS in Denton County Texas (Ponder). However, I am not sure whether those records are even available in their online database. I have not checked this name or other JH name in the probate courts of the appropriate county in the State of Washington if anyone cares to do that. GS did have other records in Denton County. One curiosity to me was the fact he had an attorney for one case that is in Rockwall, Tx. Find it interesting because there was an LK in Rockwall that I have been looking into.