TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[PoirotryInMotion]

This topic of the birth certificate has me wondering again if she had a connection in California or Washington who already had the necessary information and provided it to FLEK.
This is one of the reasons why I'm revisiting one of my previous theories (and I have many) that she might have had the help of C.C. Stalder or someone connected to her at some point in this name change process. But as I mentioned in a previous post, I'm still trying to figure out how Arizona fits into her timelines, as in when did she live there and who did she know there. If she did live in Arizona, did she have help from someone who lived there.
I don't think that even in 1988 she would have been able to simply provide a name with no date of birth and get a birth certificate, especially with such a common name as Turner.

DJS had relatives in CA, WA (Tacoma, with one even born in Fife) and AZ. It's one more reason I keep studying the possible connection. No research needed to know about the Turner fire.

 

[MrsMole]

Welcome! You know that is a good question...
In my experience she would have had to know the exact date and full name to get the record. To find the record the clerk would most likely be looking through files or books of records ordered by date. In some counties they have indexes at the front of the books but not all do. They are not going to want to look through every record in the year 1969 to find Becky Sue Turner's birth record. Plus, although they were more lax in who they gave records out to back then, it's a pretty good chance that if FLEK said she didn't know the date (and this is a record for a minor the clerk presumed to be alive) they are not going to give her the record so easily--it would put up red flags, IMO for her to not know the exact DOB. FLEK would have had to pretend to be BST or a parent or other close relative to get the record. JMO.

All that said, I have never requested a BC from Kern County, CA and I have no idea what the process was like back in 1988. The male clerk-recorder who is named in the stamped receipt and and the woman who signed below the stamp are both alive (or were a few months ago when I looked for them). I realize they may not know anything about FLEK (I highly doubt they would remember her) but would anyone like to contact them and ask about the process for obtaining a birth record in Kern County in 1988? Perhaps we could gain insight into how FLEK got the record. Maybe it was easier than we think.

ETA: Just to put it into perspective, I searched for birth records in Kern County in 1969 and found over 6000 people born there. Maybe in a smaller county with only a few hundred people a clerk would be nice enough to search through the records without an exact date, but 6000 records is way to many and would take too much time. This of course assumes the method of keeping records in order by date is how it was done in Kern County. There would be folders or books for each month--possibly each week of each month if they have that many records. The clerk would find the record by date, IME. I could be wrong though and Kern county might have had a more efficient system with detailed indexes. I have only ever been to small town/small county clerks offices.

Thanks for the response, those are all great points. With that many birth records, unless they are organized alphabetically rather than chronologically (which seems doubtful, as that would be time consuming for whoever handles record keeping..) it seems that the 'how' of getting the birth date and birth certificate could be important information. Technically, if that was her first step in changing her identity, it's the closest step to "whoever she was before BST"

 

[MrsMole]

I have a few other questions that maybe some of the experts here could shed some light on...

I'm still really stuck on the 'how' she obtained BST's birth certificate. So questions for some context:

1. If LEK was looking for an identity to steal through microfiche, would other states have had local newspaper clippings, i.e. BST's clipping? Or would she have had to have been in WA or OR to see that local paper's article on microfiche?

2. Since the internet as-we-know-it was not in existence in 1988, is it safe to assume she must have heard of BST's death either through microfiche, cemetery-searching, or first-hand knowledge?

3. Lastly, I know the identity broker theory has been tossed around a bit, and while it does seem that her methods were sophisticated, how likely is this? Maybe, having not been up to any dubious activities in the 80s, I underestimate how common/accessible this type of person was. But thinking in current times, if I personally was trying to change my identity, I would have NO idea how to track down a 'professional' who does this. If you're truly trying to disappear, you probably wouldn't call random people or ask friends/family if they knew anyone in the identity changing business. So without a connection to organized crime or very sketchy people, I can't imagine how an 18-22 year old girl would even know where to look for an identity broker.

I suppose if she was actually in the 'entertainment' industry as some have suspected, she could have had these types of sketchy connections before becoming BST. In the same breath, though, if there was a person so intimidating/powerful that she had to literally erase her old life to escape him/her, would anyone in her circle have risked trying to help her change her identity and get away? Lots of thoughts and questions, not many answers. Thanks in advance for any insight/input!

 

[Laughing]

Re: county-level indexing of records pre-Internet.

I've done genealogy work in counties that used alphabetical ledger books to index records. The researcher asks for a record by surname, clerk flips to page & finds the name & assigned index number, photocopies record. Small places might have one ledger-sized book for births, deaths, marriages, divorces, land transactions, criminal court, and civil court which means Lucky Researcher with all records listed on one page! Sometimes S and T for instance runs to several pages while X and Y remain blank. One book per year, usually.

In 1988, Kern County may have had a computerized database. I worked with one in use at a saving&loan that year, in dBase IV. This one was for mortgages, searchable by any field -- date of application, date of appraisal, name of loan officer, name of borrower, interest rate, prinicipal, loan-to-value, guarantor, address of property: street address town or zip code, and more jargon-type fields. FLEK may have walked to the counter, asked for the birth certificate for "Beckie Turner," the clerk type in Turner B and ask for the birthdate -- or look at FLEK & offer "oh I bet you want 1969!"

Again, this reflects me experience in 1988 and not with Kern County!

JMHO, :seeya:

 

[Sherwood Park]

I have a few other questions that maybe some of the experts here could shed some light on...

I'm still really stuck on the 'how' she obtained BST's birth certificate. So questions for some context:

1. If LEK was looking for an identity to steal through microfiche, would other states have had local newspaper clippings, i.e. BST's clipping? Or would she have had to have been in WA or OR to see that local paper's article on microfiche?

2. Since the internet as-we-know-it was not in existence in 1988, is it safe to assume she must have heard of BST's death either through microfiche, cemetery-searching, or first-hand knowledge?

3. Lastly, I know the identity broker theory has been tossed around a bit, and while it does seem that her methods were sophisticated, how likely is this? Maybe, having not been up to any dubious activities in the 80s, I underestimate how common/accessible this type of person was. But thinking in current times, if I personally was trying to change my identity, I would have NO idea how to track down a 'professional' who does this. If you're truly trying to disappear, you probably wouldn't call random people or ask friends/family if they knew anyone in the identity changing business. So without a connection to organized crime or very sketchy people, I can't imagine how an 18-22 year old girl would even know where to look for an identity broker.

I suppose if she was actually in the 'entertainment' industry as some have suspected, she could have had these types of sketchy connections before becoming BST. In the same breath, though, if there was a person so intimidating/powerful that she had to literally erase her old life to escape him/her, would anyone in her circle have risked trying to help her change her identity and get away? Lots of thoughts and questions, not many answers. Thanks in advance for any insight/input!

Your #3 is what I'm revisiting and slowly going through some posts from the past few years. She likely had to have had some connections for her I.D. change. The planning and the follow through. This is why I'm also revisiting the possibility that Stalder had helped her somehow. The problem is connecting all the dots.

As you mentioned, I don't think the average 18-22 year old would know, on her own, how to go about doing this elaborate identity change. I'm hesitant to believe it was as easy as people are making it out to be.

 

[mrseeker]

Your #3 is what I'm revisiting and slowly going through some posts from the past few years. She likely had to have had some connections for her I.D. change. The planning and the follow through. This is why I'm also revisiting the possibility that Stalder had helped her somehow. The problem is connecting all the dots.

As you mentioned, I don't think the average 18-22 year old would know, on her own, how to go about doing this elaborate identity change. I'm hesitant to believe it was as easy as people are making it out to be.

Being about FLEKs age, most likely on the higher end of the estimate, I can tell you without reservation I knew about creating a new identity with a dead infant's birth certificate when I was in high school if not earlier. As has been mentioned, it was covered quite a bit in the media and in books. I would have been able to do it at her age, if I had a mind to.

 

[LucyBates]

I do not know much about the scars matching up, but those scars may provide evidence for Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), which might explain some of the behavior and thinking--head trauma results. This case is fascinating. I brought up Stalder long ago as a possible link. I sense some sort of trauma in her background and my heart breaks that there was not a better outcome for this woman.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Just curious: for those who have been working this case and know it well - what is/are your favourite explanations for who Lori was? And/or which options are you currently most hopeful about?

I ask because I lurk here a lot but rarely post, it's hard to keep up there are so many tangents!! Great sleuthing, I'm in awe of you all by the way... I just need a few little summaries!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Oh and also, I asked a while ago about what happened to the Taman Shud case as I can't find it anywhere!!

 

[Laughing]

Oh and also, I asked a while ago about what happened to the Taman Shud case as I can't find it anywhere!!

IDK, I tried searching for Somerton and Sumerton, no luck? Maybe part of this weekend's maintenance? Maybe Derek Abbott reached a conclusion & the answer is coming soon?

 

[francia]

So. Another long time lurker here. Y'all are doing a great job I must say!

I was just thinking about her daughter. Is her name known? That could be a clue perhaps? She could have picked a name of someone who used to be very close to her. There would have been no need to really explain the name choice; saying that you really like the name is probably enough to convince your husband to decide on it...

 

[StarrChance]

So. Another long time lurker here. Y'all are doing a great job I must say!

I was just thinking about her daughter. Is her name known? That could be a clue perhaps? She could have picked a name of someone who used to be very close to her. There would have been no need to really explain the name choice; saying that you really like the name is probably enough to convince your husband to decide on it...

Hi and Welcome!

Lori obituary

Christian memorial service for Lori Erica Ruff will be held at 11:00 am on Monday January 3, 2011, at the First Christian Church on 720 North 6th Street in Longview with Dr. Richard Emerson, Dr. Jim Lewis and Pastor Denny Gorena officiating. Lori died on December 24, 2010 in Longview. Lori was born July 18, 1969 and lived in Scottsdale, Arizona, before moving to Dallas in 1987. She graduated from the University of Texas at Arlington in 1997 with a Bachelor in Business with a concentration in Marketing and owned a Marketing Research Company in Leonard. Lori is survived by her precious two-year old daughter, Jessica Emily Ruff, husband, Jon Blakeley "Blake" Ruff; mother-in-law and father-in-law, Nancy and Jon Ruff; sister-in-law, Mary Darby, and her husband Miles Darby; brother-in-law, David Ruff and his wife, Martha; all of Longview, and her sister-in-law, Margaret Temple and her husband Lawrence Temple of Austin and many nieces and nephews. Lori was a member of the Cornerstone Baptist Church of Trenton and also attended First Baptist Church of Leonard. Memorials may be made to the Children's Department of First Christian Chuch

http://www.tributes.com/obituary/show/Lori-Erica-Ruff-90422740

 

[MrsMole]

Just curious: for those who have been working this case and know it well - what is/are your favourite explanations for who Lori was? And/or which options are you currently most hopeful about?

I ask because I lurk here a lot but rarely post, it's hard to keep up there are so many tangents!! Great sleuthing, I'm in awe of you all by the way... I just need a few little summaries!

Hi! I'm a fairly new poster, but I have several (possible) theories for what I think drove FLEK to the name change.

1. She really was just someone on the run from some type of threat, real or perceived, who studied how to change her identity, and left something bad/undesirable enough that maintaining the new life was a blessing. Abusive family/spouse/drug problems/crime etc. I think if this is the case and she was a 'normal' person, she just got lucky with the BST ID.

2. She was actually from some type of wealth, and on the run from someone/something. This would explain being able to afford the travel, not having steady work throughout the early years of her new identity, possibly even affording the broker if she used one, etc. It could also be that maybe the person/people she was trying to leave wouldn't 'track her down' through criminal connections like we always imagine she was afraid of, but an ability to afford a PI, publicity etc. If this is the case, I believe she probably originated from somewhere nowhere near TX or the PNW. The loophole here is that she should've been reported missing if this is the circumstance, but families (especially wealthy ones) sometimes do very strange things, and she may have never been reported missing at all. Presumed to be a runaway/disgrace to her family who assumed one day she would come back - and she didn't.

 

[sunnynz]

Regarding the discussion aroung process for obtaining the birth certificate from Kern County in '88, I have contacted the female clerk whose signature is on the receipt FLEK received when she got the certificate. I've shared the Seattle Times article with her and asked her whether FLEK would have needed to know the DOB and what other information or proof of ID was required to submit the request. I've sent her a facebook message so hopefully she sees it, it's such a hit and miss way to contact people in my experience.

 

[sunnynz]

IDK, I tried searching for Somerton and Sumerton, no luck? Maybe part of this weekend's maintenance? Maybe Derek Abbott reached a conclusion & the answer is coming soon?

Abbott is on twitter if anyone wants to tweet him and asked whatever happened with this. I use my twitter for professional purposes so it's not really appropriate for me to do so. @derek_abbott60

 

[Gardener1850]

Does anyone think this woman looks like Lori?

Holly Ann Paul was last seen 1999, also she was 5'6
I'm really amazed though at the likeness.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/paul_holly.html

I know and I can't find any more details about her disappearance and she has no DNA in the system to compare against Lori. I know that 1999 is off from what everyone expects but I have always been open to the idea Lori kept in touch with family for a while after 1988. If Holly Ann Paul's height came from her drivers license we already know that Lori fudged her height on other licenses. I'm trying to find out more about Holly. The hotel where she was last seen is midway between Jacksonville, FL and Dallas.

ETA: The photo I chose to compare to is Lori's license from 1997 so these photos are even close in time and she looks very similar, IMO.

Some more on Holly: Her parents are both recently deceased but she has siblings we could contact if we could track them down. Her mother died less than a week ago so not sure if it would be too hurtful to bring up Holly at this time. http://www.jacksonvillememorygardens.com/obituary/Darlene-L.-Stanley/Jacksonville-FL/1647257 Holly's father died in 2015: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/charles-foster-obituary?pid=1000000176333253

Some things of note in regards to FLEK:
Holly's parents were both born in Pennsylvania.

Holly's grandfather lived and worked in Keller, TX which is close to Dallas. Holly's dad's brother, (her uncle) lived in Dallas and Fort Worth. Her uncle who lived in Dallas had a daughter (Holly's first cousin) named the same E name that FLEK chose as her middle name. Both of Holly's paternal grandparents died in Ventura County, California. She had several extended family members who lived in CA, close to Los Angeles.

As previously mentioned, it was suggested on a comment on one of Holly's missing pages that she was married to John Paul Jr. http://www.missingin.org/reg2820/holly_ann_paul.htm
I am still trying to figure out if Holly was actually married to him or not. John Paul Jr. went to prison in Alabama. He had a daughter that visited him in prison every few months. His mother was born there and lived there after divorcing his father so John Paul Jr may have met Holly in Alabama before she went missing (if they were married).
The date given for their divorce in that comment (1987) is very interesting. I am trying to locate that record.
Also interesting is the dates of John Paul Jr's prison sentence. He went to prison in June of 1986 and got out Oct 1988.
His father, John Paul Sr a is a POI in the disappearance of two other women (Chalice Paul and Colleen Wood).
John Paul Sr got out of prison from a 25 year sentence for attempted murder in July 1999. Holly went missing August of 1999.
John Paul Sr is reportedly hiding out in Thailand on violation of his parole and wanted for questioning in the disappearance of his girlfriend Colleen Wood in Dec 2000.

Anyone see what I see or is this a stretch? They look like twins to me but I need to know for sure if Holly was married to John Paul Jr.

 

[ladyrider223]

There was a link on the Chalice Paul fb page to a story that said John Paul married a Holly Haywood iirc.

 

[sunnynz]

Some more on Holly: Her parents are both recently deceased but she has siblings we could contact if we could track them down. Her mother died less than a week ago so not sure if it would be too hurtful to bring up Holly at this time. http://www.jacksonvillememorygardens.com/obituary/Darlene-L.-Stanley/Jacksonville-FL/1647257 Holly's father died in 2015: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/charles-foster-obituary?pid=1000000176333253

Some things of note in regards to FLEK:
Holly's parents were both born in Pennsylvania.

Holly's grandfather lived and worked in Keller, TX which is close to Dallas. Holly's dad's brother, (her uncle) lived in Dallas and Fort Worth. Her uncle who lived in Dallas had a daughter (Holly's first cousin) named the same E name that FLEK chose as her middle name. Both of Holly's paternal grandparents died in Ventura County, California. She had several extended family members who lived in CA, close to Los Angeles.

As previously mentioned, it was suggested on a comment on one of Holly's missing pages that she was married to John Paul Jr. http://www.missingin.org/reg2820/holly_ann_paul.htm
I am still trying to figure out if Holly was actually married to him or not. John Paul Jr. went to prison in Alabama. He had a daughter that visited him in prison every few months. His mother was born there and lived there after divorcing his father so John Paul Jr may have met Holly in Alabama before she went missing (if they were married).
The date given for their divorce in that comment (1987) is very interesting. I am trying to locate that record.
Also interesting is the dates of John Paul Jr's prison sentence. He went to prison in June of 1986 and got out Oct 1988.
His father, John Paul Sr a is a POI in the disappearance of two other women (Chalice Paul and Colleen Wood).
John Paul Sr got out of prison from a 25 year sentence for attempted murder in July 1999. Holly went missing August of 1999.
John Paul Sr is reportedly hiding out in Thailand on violation of his parole and wanted for questioning in the disappearance of his girlfriend Colleen Wood in Dec 2000.

Anyone see what I see or is this a stretch? They look like twins to me but I need to know for sure if Holly was married to John Paul Jr.

They look so alike. I think it would be worth submitting if you could find enough info on Holly's whereabouts between '88 and '99 to show that she could have been living as Holly but also setting up IDs as BST and LEK at the same time.

 

[Gardener1850]

There was a link on the Chalice Paul fb page to a story that said John Paul married a Holly Haywood iirc.

This article says that John Paul Sr married a Hope Haywood: http://articles.latimes.com/1985-03-10/sports/sp-25900_1_john-paul-sr
I'll go read through that page again though to see if a Holly is mentioned anywhere. Thanks.

 

[Gardener1850]

They look so alike. I think it would be worth submitting if you could find enough info on Holly's whereabouts between '88 and '99 to show that she could have been living as Holly but also setting up IDs as BST and LEK at the same time.

Thanks for the encouragement Sunnynz! I am trying to find out more about Holly but there is very little to find. I did find an arrest record for someone with her name and the right age in 1998: https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-57460668/police-report
Legal experts: If Holly had a record, would her fingerprints be in CODIS? Would she be an automatic rule out or would they need to check Lori's prints against hers to be sure?