I have a theory on the letter of reference. I think of it as a prop. In all my years, with the exception of applying for graduate school, I have never used a letter of reference. In fact in graduate school apps, the letter does not go to the applicant but directly to the university. So I am thinking she used it as a prop if ever asked. Maybe nobody ever asked. Her story would be, her employer traveled the world and you could not call him, but he provided me this letter. My guess nobody ever needed it. She probably just tried to gloss over the reference thing. She had a new identity so how could she ever produce a real reference. so she invented this fake rich man who she did work for who is never home so he wrote me this letter. She could have pulled it out for apartment rentals or job applications. She probably talked her way into all kinds of stuff. Starting first with that name change judge. I am so sorry I do not have 3 references, I just had one job while in High school working for a Mr. Steinbeck who travels the world. He let me a room and I did odd jobs. Here is a letter he wrote for me whilst traveling in Thailand.
TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5
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Gardener1850
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That's very possible. Plus, she was presenting herself as a teenager in 1988. Many places back then hired teens for entry level jobs without any qualifications or job experience--they have to train everyone they hire anyway. As long as she showed up properly dressed for the job, on time and was polite and competent she would get hired. Today more places do background checks but back then they may not have even checked references. One of Lori's early jobs on her resume was for a church--she could have gotten that job just by attending church there and befriending the pastors wife and/or secretaries of the church. Getting an apartment may have been more difficult--she would need to have deposit money and proof of employment enough to pay the rent. I wonder if she could have taken advantage of a women's shelter until she got on her feet? People who run shelters will often serve as references for helping homeless get employment or a place to live as well. If she knew where to look she had plenty of avenues for getting a real reference. She didn't need the fake letter.
Gardener1850
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Here's another thought on the letter: what if that letter was part of an assignment for one of her business classes? Maybe it's obviously fake because it was meant to be. IDK, but I don't think the answer to her identity is in that letter.
BigCityAccountant
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On her's~~she typed it. The font types were not the same, but were close~~back then people didn't look that closely at them and a photocopy was all you needed. I remember reading a HR Handbook in which I saw the letter. A kind of beware if you see this kind of letter. It was in the Mid 90's. Of course, I said to myself~~they are onto that scheme. I wish I could remember the name of that book, just did a cursory google search and came up blank.
No~~but if I didn't know where she was in 1988 I would swear FLEK was my friend. It was around 1988 that we began talking again. She was living in downtown Chicago, working as a waitress (under her real name by that time) IIRC, she ran away in 1983~~it was 1988 when I called her mom and found out that she was no longer a runaway.
BigCityAccountant
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I'm certain it will not answer her identity.
awillis0513
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I feel like letters of reference used to be a real thing. I remember when I applied to college as a high school senior (2004) being asked to supply three letters of recommendations in sealed envelopes. I also went to a private college, which might have been why they were more old-fashioned.
I love the way you viewed this, though. "Prop" is the perfect terminology for some of these documents. FLEK got a letter of reference because that's what she thought people did; she got a passport that was never used because that's what she thought people did; I wouldn't be shocked if the skydiving certificate even turned out to be fake. Because FLEK was creating a character to be played.
Coming around to the Positive ID film (which I own but haven't watched because for some reason it freaks me out), I wouldn't doubt that she got a lot of these ideas from movies or TV shows she saw or from other people she admired. It just occurred to me that the "note page" could have entirely been taken from someone she admired or viewed as who she wanted to be like. She might have seen this as a way to see who the person called and what they were into.
That last part is a stretch, but I'm on day three of a major allergy attack and anything seems possible.
My opinion only...no matter how crazy.
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My theory on the reference letter is sort of along these lines: I'm thinking that she initially created the letter for a very specific situation, a particular job interview, or perhaps an education opportunity.
First, I would suggest that acquiring the letterhead, or at least a fascimile of the letterhead, probably wasn't as difficult as one might think. Even if she never went to Thailand, she may well have found a blank piece of stationary at a garage sale. That said, I think she found a copy of the letterhead in a book or magazine somewhere, she could have crafted a reasonably fake letter with a typewriter and access to a photocopier--and if she did present this letter to anybody, I'd reckon that she would have provided a Xerox as a far more reasonable (and explainable) alternative to having "Mr. Steinman" type up and sign a batch of individual letters.
But my main theory about this letter is this: the purpose of the letter was to provide a reference that would probably never be checked. Circa 1990 the most efficient way to verify this type of letter was to place an international long-distance call--an expensive and not necessarily simple action to take, involving international dialing codes and whatnot. There's also a potential language barrier, or course. The kicker, then, is that Thailand and Texas are literally on opposite sides of the world--Dallas and Bangkok are exactly 12 hours apart.
So again--we don't know if "Lori" ever used this letter, and if she did, whether it helped her to accomplish for her whatever it was she was trying to accomplish. But if her latent goal on crafting this letter was to create a reference that on its surface would be immediately recognized as being inconveneint and expensive to verify, she certainly accomplished that goal.
Again--I think that even if she was a globetrotting genius, she didn't need to be to pull off what she did. I do think that she was educated, and likely also worked at some type of job where she dealt with other people's information and how it is used--perhaps a lower-level position for a county clerk, for a school administrator or at a law office.
First, I would suggest that acquiring the letterhead, or at least a fascimile of the letterhead, probably wasn't as difficult as one might think. Even if she never went to Thailand, she may well have found a blank piece of stationary at a garage sale. That said, I think she found a copy of the letterhead in a book or magazine somewhere, she could have crafted a reasonably fake letter with a typewriter and access to a photocopier--and if she did present this letter to anybody, I'd reckon that she would have provided a Xerox as a far more reasonable (and explainable) alternative to having "Mr. Steinman" type up and sign a batch of individual letters.
But my main theory about this letter is this: the purpose of the letter was to provide a reference that would probably never be checked. Circa 1990 the most efficient way to verify this type of letter was to place an international long-distance call--an expensive and not necessarily simple action to take, involving international dialing codes and whatnot. There's also a potential language barrier, or course. The kicker, then, is that Thailand and Texas are literally on opposite sides of the world--Dallas and Bangkok are exactly 12 hours apart.
So again--we don't know if "Lori" ever used this letter, and if she did, whether it helped her to accomplish for her whatever it was she was trying to accomplish. But if her latent goal on crafting this letter was to create a reference that on its surface would be immediately recognized as being inconveneint and expensive to verify, she certainly accomplished that goal.
Again--I think that even if she was a globetrotting genius, she didn't need to be to pull off what she did. I do think that she was educated, and likely also worked at some type of job where she dealt with other people's information and how it is used--perhaps a lower-level position for a county clerk, for a school administrator or at a law office.
I had never thought of that angle. Hmm.
The problem with applying for anything beyond entry-level jobs is that you either have to prove competence or know someone to get the job. (And the interviewer can usually tell when one is faking it; one give-away is an 18-year-old claiming to know more than she does.) And from her resume, LEK didn't demonstrate any of the necessary hustle skills to get beyond entry-level jobs; even with a real college degree, she was still struggling to work her way out of entry-level jobs. So while she might have applied for something more substantial, I doubt she got as far as even an interview.
The easiest lies to tell are the ones closest to the truth -- which is why I tend to believe that LEK was the daughter of a failed stockbroker. Maybe not from Scottsdale, but from a middle-America suburb.
This is one reason I think building up a profile would be useful. Talk to enough people about her, you start uncovering bits that don't add up. (And I suspect Velling didn't try this approach because it requires a lot of work & attention, & his methods are faster & usually lead to an answer. So he never tried to interview people who knew her to get a sense of who she was, & thru that tease out the clues LEK never knew she was providing that revealed her past.) As an example, I am convinced she didn't have good social skills. Not that she was obnoxious or arrogant, but that she never exactly fit in with any of her coworkers or the social groups she tried to belong to. Which, as I re-read the Reference Letter for the first time in several month, gave the word "pleasant" -- which appears twice in the letter -- a poignant quality.
I'm probably wrong about that detail, but it illustrates how a profile would uncover details about LEK we might not otherwise know.
It would be an interesting exercise to talk to one of the people who actually knew her -- like the person in that YouTube thread -- & have him relate some stories about LEK. Things she actually did, not the potted summaries of who she was that we keep reading about. (For example: How did it come up that she liked Cuban food? How was it revealed that she wanted an Easy-Bake oven as a present? Did she act childish/childlike all the time, or only in certain situations?) I suspect that as people tell these stories, details about LEK that would help identify her which might not otherwise be remembered -- odd word choices, specific mannerisms, unexpected ignorance or knowledge of things -- will emerge.
Anyway, if I had the time & could reach out to these people, that's what I would try to do.
Funny thing is that I was able to get an apartment in 1984 without providing a down deposit, just first-month's rent. Of course there was a recession at the time, I presented myself as being a responsible-type person, & things were probably different for Portland then than they might have been in Dallas. (I know I paid something like $225 a month in rent for a one-bedroom apartment then, which is an eighth of what the average apartment rents for now in Portland.)
And then she could have been a roommate for several years. Paying half the rent on a two-bedroom (or one-bedroom) apartment, moving on when her roommate became unbearable, but never leaving a trace of where she lived -- which is why she had those mail drops. Which would mean there are several people in the Dallas area who might remember her from those days, if she was living with them as Lori Kennedy, & not (say) her birth name.
One thought I meant to share in my other post: the reason she kept this Reference Letter. Maybe she kept it as a souvenir of her first few years as LEK, a reminder of how far she had come. She may have created it out of fear people would routinely question her about her previous work history every time she applied for a job, only to find this letter was unnecessary. It was a souvenir of her uncertainty, & now she could look back at it & see how much she had learned in re-inventing herself. (Yes, I know this contradicts many of the other theories I've thrown out. But people are contradictory. She may have tried to run away from herself by becoming LEK & knew she failed at that, yet was sometimes proud that she had still graduated from college & had created an identity for herself.) She needed that clumsily forged letter of recommendation for some reason -- which is why she kept it to the end. And if we knew more about her, we might understand that reason.
SideKick
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According to wiki the name of the hotel was incorporated in 1985 as
In 1974 the company's hotel interests expanded further through the acquisition of a 49% interest in The Oriental, Bangkok. The Oriental, built in 1876, was already a legendary property and acknowledged as one of the world's great hotels. Through the management of both The Mandarin in Hong Kong and The Oriental, Bangkok, the Group was in an unusual position of having two "flagship" hotels whose names represented the best in hospitality. In 1985, the Company rationalized its corporate structure by combining these two renowned properties under a common name, Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group.
The actual ref letter: The Oriental..... Also the the date 1876 - 1988 is ridiculous, so every year they update the current year?! No....
I believe the new incorporated name in 1988 would be updated on all letterhead and not missed by this worldly hotel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Oriental,_Bangkok
The logo is not the logo used at that time, nor ever.
In 1974 The Oriental in Bangkok, which was already acknowledged as one of the world's most legendary hotels was partially acquired by the Group, giving the company two "flagship" hotels whose names represented the very best in hospitality.
As a consequence, the two famous hotels joined to create the brand Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group under the renowned fan logo.
In 1974 the company's hotel interests expanded further through the acquisition of a 49% interest in The Oriental, Bangkok. The Oriental, built in 1876, was already a legendary property and acknowledged as one of the world's great hotels. Through the management of both The Mandarin in Hong Kong and The Oriental, Bangkok, the Group was in an unusual position of having two "flagship" hotels whose names represented the best in hospitality. In 1985, the Company rationalized its corporate structure by combining these two renowned properties under a common name, Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group.
The actual ref letter: The Oriental..... Also the the date 1876 - 1988 is ridiculous, so every year they update the current year?! No....
I believe the new incorporated name in 1988 would be updated on all letterhead and not missed by this worldly hotel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Oriental,_Bangkok
The logo is not the logo used at that time, nor ever.
In 1974 The Oriental in Bangkok, which was already acknowledged as one of the world's most legendary hotels was partially acquired by the Group, giving the company two "flagship" hotels whose names represented the very best in hospitality.
As a consequence, the two famous hotels joined to create the brand Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group under the renowned fan logo.
Oh I absolutely agree with you that the answer to her real identity is not hidden cryptically in this very brief faux reference letter. I guess what I try to look for in some of these things is essentially pieces of what kind of person she was/background she came from. For example, was using The Oriental (for the time difference, prestige, etc.) something commonly recommended in the how-to books, or did she think of it on her own? Was she just following instructions, or was she cunning and creative?
It may not be information that helps identify her directly, but I feel like any clues to who she was (in personality, awareness of popular culture, intelligence, etc.) are helpful in creating some kind of back story for where/what she might have come from.
Gardener1850
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The wiki may be correct on the hotels merging but I found plenty of news articles on the Oriental Hotel and it was still known as "The Oriental" in 1988. In 1988 The Oriental Hotel had been named the top hotel in the world for 8 years in a row. The Associated Press ran a story on it which was picked up in papers nationwide. This could be how Lori knew about the Oriental and the 8th year in a row of being named the top hotel in the world may have led to a 1988 magazine article with the graphic used on the letter. I was hoping to find that graphic somewhere but I found these articles instead. Here's one of the articles by the AP:
ETA: This article mentions a magazine called "Institutional Investigator" as the one that ranked the Oriental Hotel as the best in the world. I wonder if a copy of that magazine from 1988 would have that graphic?
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Gardener1850
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Yes, sorry I didn't mean to sound dismissive of the conversation. I think it's worthwhile to look at the letter and even could be important to prove it is fake. Some people have built entire theories around Lori being connected to someone named Roger Steinbeck because of this letter. The SSA investigator said it was fake and no RS exists but not everyone will just take his word for it. I like to verify things myself so I understand why they wouldn't trust that statement right away.
I thought it might be interesting to see what Boise looked like in 1988. Here is a video of downtown Boise taken in July of 1988.
[video=youtube;ypM2aOrl-YE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypM2aOrl-YE[/video]
I always assumed that FLEK had taken a bus from Boise to Dallas, stopping in Boulder City to open a mail box along the way. I checked current bus schedules and I couldn’t find a route that went through Boulder City. I don’t know how often bus routes change in that part of the country, but most of the routes in my region have stayed the same for decades. Do we have any information on the name that the PO Box was registered to and date that the PO Box was opened in Boulder City? If the PO Box was opened under BST, she more than likely would have opened it on her way from Boise to Dallas and was possibly driving between those cities. If the PO Box was opened under Lori Kennedy, then she drove back to BC after changing her name in Dallas.
[video=youtube;ypM2aOrl-YE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypM2aOrl-YE[/video]
I always assumed that FLEK had taken a bus from Boise to Dallas, stopping in Boulder City to open a mail box along the way. I checked current bus schedules and I couldn’t find a route that went through Boulder City. I don’t know how often bus routes change in that part of the country, but most of the routes in my region have stayed the same for decades. Do we have any information on the name that the PO Box was registered to and date that the PO Box was opened in Boulder City? If the PO Box was opened under BST, she more than likely would have opened it on her way from Boise to Dallas and was possibly driving between those cities. If the PO Box was opened under Lori Kennedy, then she drove back to BC after changing her name in Dallas.
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I haven't watched the Positive ID movie -- was a similar reference letter included, or in the script but not the movie?
Who has watched this? IS there really overlap with what we know about FLEK?
Was the letter prepared, perhaps, as a movie prop?
Who has watched this? IS there really overlap with what we know about FLEK?
Was the letter prepared, perhaps, as a movie prop?
nerosleuth
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This could be relevant here as I just happened to remember something from the late 1980s concerning birth certificates.
I just happen to remember that during the late 1980s, there was a federal law back then that required employers to verify that their employees were American citizens.
I remember there were some grumblings at my previous place of employment when every employee at work had to bring in their birth certificates to prove that they were American citizens. That was the only time that I ever recall having to do this at a place of employment.
I just happen to remember that during the late 1980s, there was a federal law back then that required employers to verify that their employees were American citizens.
I remember there were some grumblings at my previous place of employment when every employee at work had to bring in their birth certificates to prove that they were American citizens. That was the only time that I ever recall having to do this at a place of employment.
I can't recall if we have the answers to your questions but my assumption has always been that the mail drop was in BST's name if she was pretending to be BST when she requested the birth certificate.
I have been wondering lately whether Boulder City was actually FLEK's hometown. Just stripping things back to the simplest explanation, maybe she opened a mail drop there because that's where she lived and was based while she was figuring out the ID change?
I haven't watched it either but saw it's on youtube so might do so the next time I have a free evening. Here's a pretty thorough rundown of the plot though http://articles.latimes.com/1987-10-27/entertainment/ca-16686_1_lower-depths
PS, I guess you are still waiting for the new FOIA to come through to you? Can't wait to see it!
awillis0513
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That is the best idea I have read in these Lori threads. I think the detective saying interviewing the people who knew her in the present was a waste of time is a huge mistake. It truly is frustrating. Can you please tell me what the user on youtube said? I can't find the comment you are refering to. Contacting the people who knew her: it's already been stated Blake does not reply to messages, but what about the texas women club? Any way to get a hold of them?
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