TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

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Owutatangledweb said:
Found it. It was Jennifer Chong Stalder. Reason I was asking is because I perused through the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce link that one of you posted. Besides the Las Vegas skydiving person and a marketing person, this one jumped out at me. Just don't know if it's the same Jennifer.

China Bistro-Asian Fusion
Jennifer Chong Hong

Owner
1420 Nevada Highway
Boulder City, NV 89005
702-294-0888
Member Since: 2014
Click to expand...

http://sandgate.co.clark.nv.us/assrrealprop/ParcelHistory.aspx?instance=pcl2&parcel=19113110117
 
OBrunhilde! said:
A week or so ago, someone noticed that a man with the surname Fang had also lived at 3 (?) of the same addresses as LEK.

If this is so, I thought that was a very solid lead, and worth pursuing.
Click to expand...

A thousand apologies, the surname was actually Gang, not Fang.
 
It is my understanding that this person had already been cremated when her identity of FLEK and BST were determined to be false. And that they were able to obtain her DNA and fingerprints prior to her cremation.

I was wondering if there is any way to determine whether she was from North America or Europe by simply looking at the facial features on the pictures of BST and FLEK.

Sometimes when I do look at the photo of BST’s Idaho ID card, it looks like a photo of a mail order bride from Eastern Europe.

I’m not saying that she is a mail order bride, but that’s the impression that I get sometimes when I look at BST’s photo from Idaho.
 
OBrunhilde! said:
A week or so ago, someone noticed that a man with the surname Fang had also lived at 3 (?) of the same addresses as LEK.

If this is so, I thought that was a very solid lead, and worth pursuing.
Click to expand...

Just bringing this over from the previous thread as I haven't had a chance to dig too much further in myself, but I'd love to see anyone who agrees it's worth looking into take it and run with it!!

GYF
Multiple pieces of information point to an Asian connection, as it were, so this name caught my eye.
I looked up Lori's 1993 address: 3901 Oakridge Ct. Apt. 3815, Fort Worth, TX on PeopleSmart and one of the past residents of this address that comes up is GYF. I looked up GYF on FamilySearch.org and found this record for a GYF born October 15, 1965. The FamilySearch record provides a series of addresses for this person at 14400 Statler Blvd. According to the addresses note on this Facebook page about Lori, 14400 Statler Blvd, Fort Worth, TX is also a known address for Lori that comes up in Ancestry searches. So this person is connected already to two known addresses of Lori's.
There is also this record for GYF with a different birthdate, also referencing the 14400 Statler Blvd address, bringing a third apartment unit number in to the mix.
Click to expand...

The only further things I have noticed re: GYF...

Lori's 200 Bear Creek Dr. Apt. 219 and P.O. Box 810 addresses in Euless, TX share the postcode [FONT=&amp]76039. GYF has an address at [/FONT]750 E Mid Cities Blvd Apt 1311, Euless, 76039 which is 3 minutes away from Lori's apartment[FONT=&amp]. I don't know if this is particularly exciting however, definitely not compared to the 2 addresses that actually match Lori's, as this address for GYF is from 2006 according to the internet, whereas Lori was in that area around 1995. This site gives yet another Euless address for GYF.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

GYF's spouse (or very possibly another type of relative - I haven't looked into it in detail) YF has lived in the LA area. The dates on the records are really confusing though. If they're to be taken as correct, this couple held multiple addresses in the Dallas-Forth Worth area at the same time, and YF was also in California at the same time. If this record is the same YF the addresses and dates become even more confusing. I know the accuracy of these freebie & auto-compiled records is only semi-reliable so I've just been skimming and looking for correlations to the LEK case at this point, I haven't really vetted anything too thoroughly. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT]
 
Owutatangledweb said:
Yes, we were tracking that down a couple years ago. Just don't know if this is the same JC that we came across in that research. If it is, it creates a Boulder City NV connection.
Click to expand...

The victim JC was a USC grad and i have run across FB pages of friends of his. He apparently was on a debate team. I guess someone could message them if DS is Flek. I think the timeline is a bit off though.
 
Owutatangledweb said:
Found it. It was Jennifer Chong Stalder. Reason I was asking is because I perused through the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce link that one of you posted. Besides the Las Vegas skydiving person and a marketing person, this one jumped out at me. Just don't know if it's the same Jennifer.

China Bistro-Asian Fusion
Jennifer Chong Hong

Owner
1420 Nevada Highway
Boulder City, NV 89005
702-294-0888
Member Since: 2014
Click to expand...

Yes, this "Jennifer" Chong Stalder was actually Deborah J Stalder's (the person I think became Lori Kennedy) Korean step-mother. Same signature in the naturalization papers of June 13, 1972 (eg. loopy cursive "t"). For some reason others in the forum think Deborah Stalder was not Lori Kennedy, though I am convinced she was. (I researched 24/7 for several weeks, and am not yet dissuaded, unless someone can provide proof that the Debbie Stalder that goes with this step-mother and father Richard is still alive and well in CA. A phone or Spokeo "record" is not enough.) The CO military yearbook photo I have of Deborah J Stalder's father Richard is the absolute spitting image of Lori Kennedy. No question. (Who also greatly resembles Becky Sue Turner's dad...who I think may have actually been Richard's brother/her Uncle Leon...who died in 2002, who is also the spitting image of Lori Kennedy, and who, coincidentally, sported an identical striped shirt as her Idaho ID in his high school yearbook photo.) There were several military brothers in the family, though, so Turner could have been another brother or nephew, instead.

If she is Richard Stalder's daughter, there is an extraordinary amount of family military history as well as some 'secret society' (masonic) stuff in this family. It is even feasible that her dad was involved at least at some point with the CIA as there are military records from Quantico. This is largely why I've stepped back from the case, and believe it will remain "unsolved."
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
Yes, this "Jennifer" Chong Stalder was actually Deborah J Stalder's (the person I think became Lori Kennedy) Korean step-mother. Same signature in the naturalization papers of June 13, 1972 (eg. loopy cursive "t"). For some reason others in the forum think Deborah Stalder was not Lori Kennedy, though I am convinced she was. (I researched 24/7 for several weeks, and am not yet dissuaded, unless someone can provide proof that the Debbie Stalder that goes with this step-mother and father Richard is still alive and well in CA. A phone or Spokeo "record" is not enough.) The CO military yearbook photo I have of Deborah J Stalder's father Richard is the absolute spitting image of Lori Kennedy. No question. (Who also greatly resembles Becky Sue Turner's dad...who I think may have actually been Richard's brother/her Uncle Leon...who died in 2002, who is also the spitting image of Lori Kennedy, and who, coincidentally sported an identical striped shirt as he Idaho ID in his high school yearbook photo.)

If she is Richard Stalder's daughter, there is an extraordinary amount of family military history as well as some 'secret society' (masonic) stuff in this family. It is entirely possible that her dad (at least) was involved with CIA as there are military records from Quantico. This is largely why I've stepped back from the case, and believe it will remain "unsolved."
Click to expand...

There are a few Deborah Stalders out there I found, including one that lives in las vegas that would be about the same age. As I said, there are JC friends who have mentioned him online including FB, who would be able to tell if FLEK is DS. I don't plan on messaging any. I doubt she is FLEK. I do think FLEK could have a similar story though.

One of the reasons I discount DS is that FLEK was never fingerprinted for a criminal charge apparently. She never showed up in any database checked so far. DS was given immunity in that case when she agreed to testify. I guess it is not required, but seems she would have initially been arrested so she should be on file. I guess it is possible she never was arrested though. I have to say, if I were a DS I would want to disappear. Her cooperation would have made her very unpopular with some very bad people.
 
dvo said:
Speaking of freedom of information reports... is anyone still focusing on the extended H clan as incited by the mention of FH in the previous document release? I haven't heard any mention of them on here in ages, and that has been by far the most legit lead that's ever come up...
Click to expand...

I submitted this to the Gregg County Sheriff a while back, and followed up with some further information maybe a week or two ago. All I've had is confirmation that they received my email and would look into it - no other indication either way whether they think it's a promising lead.

I detailed the theory that's been discussed here and on Reddit about TT possibly fathering FLEK with a woman from the extended FH clan, and included some side by side pics etc.
 
mrseeker said:
There are a few Deborah Stalders out there I found, including one that lives in las vegas that would be about the same age. As I said, there are JC friends who have mentioned him online including FB, who would be able to tell if FLEK is DS. I don't plan on messaging any. I doubt she is FLEK. I do think FLEK could have a similar story though.

One of the reasons I discount DS is that FLEK was never fingerprinted for a criminal charge apparently. She never showed up in any database checked so far. DS was given immunity in that case when she agreed to testify. I guess it is not required, but seems she would have initially been arrested so she should be on file. I guess it is possible she never was arrested though. I have to say, if I were a DS I would want to disappear. Her cooperation would have made her very unpopular with some very bad people.
Click to expand...

I have read that assumption several times (that she was arrested). I have never seen proof of that, and also know that she would not have otherwise been fingerprinted (as family member of military).

In addition, I believe she would not have been eligible for WITSEC. I believe she was, at the time, involved in the Bangkok drug trade, however low rung, and, as such, would've had to incriminate herself for LE to realize how in danger she was. She chose not to incriminate herself, and I believe her family (and their contacts) instead helped her 'disappear.'
 
I wouldn't vest much in the masonic stuff you've seen. People who've never been around or in it think there's all kinds of weird things and it's only because they don't know or understand.
Trust me when I say there's nothing sinister that goes on behind their closed doors. They actually live by standards that are more or less morals ans values to anyone else and they are charitable. There are different levels they study for as they advance in their personal growth. Once they hit a certain level they can advance to a "rite" and from there can go on to become shriners. But in tje end it's nothing more than a brotherhood who chose to live by core values. Females are not allowed to join but are a integral part of a lot of the things they do. The women have their own side to it called the Eastern Star.

In our lodge the men give bibles to families when a loved one has passed, if another member is in need in some way different things are done depending on what the need is. And they have fellowship a few times a year where the entire family is invited to be there meaning wives, children, mothers, etc.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
I have read that assumption several times (that she was arrested). I have never seen proof of that, and also know that she would not have otherwise been fingerprinted (as family member of military).

In addition, I believe she would not have been eligible for WITSEC. I believe she was, at the time, involved in the Bangkok drug trade, however low rung, and, as such, would've had to incriminate herself for LE to realize how in danger she was. She chose not to incriminate herself, and I believe her family (and their contacts) instead helped her 'disappear.'
Click to expand...

She was subject to a criminal charge since she was there at the time of the murder. The police could have arrested her if they wanted to. At some point they reached a deal that she would testify. That could have happened before an arrest I suppose. I cannot find a photo of the DS anywhere. It certainly would fit what would make a person do what FLEK did.
 
mrseeker said:
She was subject to a criminal charge since she was there at the time of the murder. The police could have arrested her if they wanted to. At some point they reached a deal that she would testify. That could have happened before an arrest I suppose. I cannot find a photo of the DS anywhere. It certainly would fit what would make a person do what FLEK did.
Click to expand...

Being present at a murder does not equate to being charged with murder. So I am not convinced she was fingerprinted. She was a state's witness, and offered immunity for her testimony.
 
honesty said:
I wouldn't vest much in the masonic stuff you've seen. People who've never been around or in it think there's all kinds of weird things and it's only because they don't know or understand.
Trust me when I say there's nothing sinister that goes on behind their closed doors. They actually live by standards that are more or less morals ans values to anyone else and they are charitable. There are different levels they study for as they advance in their personal growth. Once they hit a certain level they can advance to a "rite" and from there can go on to become shriners. But in tje end it's nothing more than a brotherhood who chose to live by core values. Females are not allowed to join but are a integral part of a lot of the things they do. The women have their own side to it called the Eastern Star.

In our lodge the men give bibles to families when a loved one has passed, if another member is in need in some way different things are done depending on what the need is. And they have fellowship a few times a year where the entire family is invited to be there meaning wives, children, mothers, etc.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I agree it can vary. But this family was indeed very secretive (whether due to masonic or military sensitivities). Her father's oldest brother had 2 children who were DJS's cousins (though closer in age to her father). One was female, had two military husbands, and was a high-ranking member ("Worthy Matron") of the Eastern Star. The other child was male, military, and lived in CA - his wife (along with DJS's father) signed Chong Chu's naturalization papers.

I have done ancestry research for years, and have never before encountered 'wiped' pages (completely white and blank) in my search results. This family, with 16 military members in two generations, is a first.
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
Being present at a murder does not equate to being charged with murder. So I am not convinced she was fingerprinted. She was a state's witness, and offered immunity for her testimony.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. I am not sure how it all unfolded. She admitted on the stand to being a drug dealer though. But his university friends are online and even mention his death, so it would be easy to put to rest for someone who wanted to write them.

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-06-25/local/me-4767_1_drug-dealer

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-08-07/local/me-3831_1_execution-style-murders

I think the timeline is wrong though
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Did anyone notice there is a new posting on FLEK's find a grave. Thanks for the link Gardener...The link is from someone named "donttellmewhatlovecando" added June 27, 2016.
Click to expand...
Yes that user you mentioned has left thousands of virtual flowers on different graves so I think they are just an active user of the site rather than someone who knew FLEK. There is, however, an anonymous message from the last day or so "Memories will never be lost. RIP and may you finally find happiness.
-Anonymous" this sounds like it's from someone who knew her but there is no detail to give any hints as to who it could be.
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
Yes, this "Jennifer" Chong Stalder was actually Deborah J Stalder's (the person I think became Lori Kennedy) Korean step-mother. Same signature in the naturalization papers of June 13, 1972 (eg. loopy cursive "t"). For some reason others in the forum think Deborah Stalder was not Lori Kennedy, though I am convinced she was. (I researched 24/7 for several weeks, and am not yet dissuaded, unless someone can provide proof that the Debbie Stalder that goes with this step-mother and father Richard is still alive and well in CA. A phone or Spokeo "record" is not enough.) The CO military yearbook photo I have of Deborah J Stalder's father Richard is the absolute spitting image of Lori Kennedy. No question. (Who also greatly resembles Becky Sue Turner's dad...who I think may have actually been Richard's brother/her Uncle Leon...who died in 2002, who is also the spitting image of Lori Kennedy, and who, coincidentally, sported an identical striped shirt as her Idaho ID in his high school yearbook photo.) There were several military brothers in the family, though, so Turner could have been another brother or nephew, instead.

If she is Richard Stalder's daughter, there is an extraordinary amount of family military history as well as some 'secret society' (masonic) stuff in this family. It is even feasible that her dad was involved at least at some point with the CIA as there are military records from Quantico. This is largely why I've stepped back from the case, and believe it will remain "unsolved."
Click to expand...

I'm far behind on reading. I feel lost for the first time.
I thought there was a separate Deborah J. Stalder thread, but it seems to have disappeared? She has been discussed since 2013. I'm very intrigued by your theory.
If Turner could possibly a relative of Richard or Leon Stalder, why wouldn't he have mentioned that? He mentioned Fred Howder, why not throw in the name of someone your actually related to, who also bears a resemblance?
 
Sherwood Park said:
I'm far behind on reading. I feel lost for the first time.
I thought there was a separate Deborah J. Stalder thread, but it seems to have disappeared? She has been discussed since 2013. I'm very intrigued by your theory.
If Turner could possibly a relative of Richard or Leon Stalder, why wouldn't he have mentioned that? He mentioned Fred Howder, why not throw in the name of someone your actually related to, who also bears a resemblance?
Click to expand...

I'm lost too but I have not really followed the Stalder theories. All I know is there is someone on Ancestry so convinced LEK was Stalder they made a family tree with her as the daughter of Debbie's parents. Ancestry, unfortunately, uses family trees to make suggestions for people searching, as if the family trees are "fact" just as equally weighted as an actual historical record. So when you search for evidence that Lori could be Stabler you find it in spades on Ancestry because you find what this one person has linked to their tree. I think this has caused some confusion and may even have caused some online posters to conclude the mystery was solved. I'm not trying to say I can disprove the Stalder theory--I admit I haven't looked too deeply into it and now I'm completely lost as to how pp's are connecting Stalder to the Turners. I guess I need to do some more reading...:thinking:
 
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