TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[Gardener1850]

Some more on Holly: Her parents are both recently deceased but she has siblings we could contact if we could track them down. Her mother died less than a week ago so not sure if it would be too hurtful to bring up Holly at this time. http://www.jacksonvillememorygardens.com/obituary/Darlene-L.-Stanley/Jacksonville-FL/1647257 Holly's father died in 2015: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/charles-foster-obituary?pid=1000000176333253

Some things of note in regards to FLEK:
Holly's parents were both born in Pennsylvania.

Holly's grandfather lived and worked in Keller, TX which is close to Dallas. Holly's dad's brother, (her uncle) lived in Dallas and Fort Worth. Her uncle who lived in Dallas had a daughter (Holly's first cousin) named the same E name that FLEK chose as her middle name. Both of Holly's paternal grandparents died in Ventura County, California. She had several extended family members who lived in CA, close to Los Angeles.

As previously mentioned, it was suggested on a comment on one of Holly's missing pages that she was married to John Paul Jr. http://www.missingin.org/reg2820/holly_ann_paul.htm
I am still trying to figure out if Holly was actually married to him or not. John Paul Jr. went to prison in Alabama. He had a daughter that visited him in prison every few months. His mother was born there and lived there after divorcing his father so John Paul Jr may have met Holly in Alabama before she went missing (if they were married).
The date given for their divorce in that comment (1987) is very interesting. I am trying to locate that record.
Also interesting is the dates of John Paul Jr's prison sentence. He went to prison in June of 1986 and got out Oct 1988.
His father, John Paul Sr a is a POI in the disappearance of two other women (Chalice Paul and Colleen Wood).
John Paul Sr got out of prison from a 25 year sentence for attempted murder in July 1999. Holly went missing August of 1999.
John Paul Sr is reportedly hiding out in Thailand on violation of his parole and wanted for questioning in the disappearance of his girlfriend Colleen Wood in Dec 2000.

Anyone see what I see or is this a stretch? They look like twins to me but I need to know for sure if Holly was married to John Paul Jr.

Update: I have discovered the name of John Paul Jr.'s wife and daughter and it was not Holly. They are mentioned by name toward the end of this article: http://articles.latimes.com/1985-03-...john-paul-sr/2
Address records show JP Jr and his wife and daughter living together in Florida until at least 1996. This doesn't rule out that he later married Holly too but it makes it less likely, IMO, given the date she went missing--1999.

 

[Gardener1850]

Just curious: for those who have been working this case and know it well - what is/are your favourite explanations for who Lori was? And/or which options are you currently most hopeful about?

I ask because I lurk here a lot but rarely post, it's hard to keep up there are so many tangents!! Great sleuthing, I'm in awe of you all by the way... I just need a few little summaries!

I try to keep an open mind. It's easier to tell you who I DON"T think she was.
I don't think she was a KGB Agent/Spy.
I don't think she was an escapee from a mental institution. Though she had some mental health issues later in life, IMO, she held it together enough in the 1980's to concoct this plan and carried it out.
I don't think she was a witness protection informant who went rogue to protect herself.
I don't think she was a major career criminal--though she might have had some criminal background she wanted to escape, she kept out of trouble once changed her name. I lean more toward she was hiding from criminals if there is a crime aspect other than the ID theft.
I don't think she was Debbie St@lder. Recent findings and my own research have dis-proven that IMO. We found two DS's who are close in age and location tot he one who testified. One died recently and I found her obituary. One is alive, still living in the area of the trial and Emilove found her on social media.

Who I think she could have been (in no particular order):
A runaway teen/young adult
A trafficking victim too afraid to go home or with no one to go home to
A victim of domestic violence or victim of another form of crime
Someone who really had lost all her family and decided to start over when her life wasn't going the way she wanted it to--she turned back the clock in choosing to be 19 again.
An illegal alien or a victim of "identity abuse" who had no legal birth records (See this case for an interesting example of identity abuse: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hristian-parents-nenver-registered-birth.html )

As far as the "escapee from a cult" goes, I put that in the "interesting but hard to prove category". I agree she shares some features with prominent cult members mentioned here. I think it should be looked into as a possibility but I find it hard to research that myself. They are so secretive you won't find out who she is if she was part of that world, IMO. It would take someone else who escaped and knew her/helped her coming forward, IMO. Anyone who helped her though could be prosecuted for the crime. So I doubt we will get someone to come forward saying who she was. Unless there is a death bed confession forthcoming no one is talking, IMO.

 

[EmiLove832]

I agree with everything Gardener said but I would like to add one more, I do think it's a possibility that she had a mental illness and her mind created scenario that made her feel that she needed to obtain a new identity.

I also think she kept in touch with one or two people from her past but I don't think they will ever come forward unless someone figures out who she was.

Finally, I don't think we will find her in a missing persons report.

 

[Gardener1850]

Some more on Holly: Her parents are both recently deceased but she has siblings we could contact if we could track them down. Her mother died less than a week ago so not sure if it would be too hurtful to bring up Holly at this time. http://www.jacksonvillememorygardens.com/obituary/Darlene-L.-Stanley/Jacksonville-FL/1647257 Holly's father died in 2015: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/charles-foster-obituary?pid=1000000176333253

Some things of note in regards to FLEK:
Holly's parents were both born in Pennsylvania.

Holly's grandfather lived and worked in Keller, TX which is close to Dallas. Holly's dad's brother, (her uncle) lived in Dallas and Fort Worth. Her uncle who lived in Dallas had a daughter (Holly's first cousin) named the same E name that FLEK chose as her middle name. Both of Holly's paternal grandparents died in Ventura County, California. She had several extended family members who lived in CA, close to Los Angeles.

As previously mentioned, it was suggested on a comment on one of Holly's missing pages that she was married to John Paul Jr. http://www.missingin.org/reg2820/holly_ann_paul.htm
I am still trying to figure out if Holly was actually married to him or not. John Paul Jr. went to prison in Alabama. He had a daughter that visited him in prison every few months. His mother was born there and lived there after divorcing his father so John Paul Jr may have met Holly in Alabama before she went missing (if they were married).
The date given for their divorce in that comment (1987) is very interesting. I am trying to locate that record.
Also interesting is the dates of John Paul Jr's prison sentence. He went to prison in June of 1986 and got out Oct 1988.
His father, John Paul Sr a is a POI in the disappearance of two other women (Chalice Paul and Colleen Wood).
John Paul Sr got out of prison from a 25 year sentence for attempted murder in July 1999. Holly went missing August of 1999.
John Paul Sr is reportedly hiding out in Thailand on violation of his parole and wanted for questioning in the disappearance of his girlfriend Colleen Wood in Dec 2000.

Anyone see what I see or is this a stretch? They look like twins to me but I need to know for sure if Holly was married to John Paul Jr.

Update: I have discovered the name of John Paul Jr.'s wife and daughter and it was not Holly. They are mentioned by name toward the end of this article: http://articles.latimes.com/1985-03-...john-paul-sr/2
Address records show JP Jr and his wife and daughter living together in Florida until at least 1996. This doesn't rule out that he later married Holly too but it makes it less likely, IMO, given the date she went missing--1999.

I believe I have found Holly's husband and he is deceased. I still have not found a marriage record but this man lived at the same address as Holly in Jacksonville and had a step-son with Holly's alternate last name (Evans). http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/timesunion/obituary.aspx?n=vincent-m-paul&pid=783816

He had a very interesting profession with regard to FLEK. He owned a music company and a night club. Does anyone know the names of the record labels Lish and/or Jeung recorded under? Or do we know if Kathleen Jeung ever DJ'ed/Lish ever played at clubs in Jacksonville, FL?

Sadly, if I'm right about this man being Holly's husband, then Holly had a son when she went missing. I can't find him though, the only one I found with that name in Jacksonville is too old to be her son.

 

[Laughing]

FLEK tied to Turners: the young FLEK may have been friends with one of the three girls, or met the parents after the tragedy but somehow reminded one Turner or the other of their children. A grieving parent could dote on a replacement child, possibly?

JMHO

 

[HawkFan2014]

FYi I also submitted Debra today..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gardener,

FLEK changed her ID at least once. What if she had done it before? Maybe a nice girl like Tominson runs away, only 16 and can't work, gets fake ID saying she's 18? Maybe she met a handsome St@lder boy? Maybe the missing second girl is of the Lane County Oregon St@lder girls? Maybe uses a St@lder ID?

The only Emily Sta@lder....Lane County Oregon.
The only St@lder/B@rker connection in the world....Lane County Oregon.

I'm not sayin DT is DS...just saying that you never know : )

 

[EmiLove832]

The only reason DJS became a possibility was due to the timing of the trial and months of the conviction. That's it! There's no evidence that DS is connected at all.

Maybe someone in the DJS is FLEK or knew her camp should reach out to her and find out?

 

[Gardener1850]

With regard to Holly Paul, I have stopped looking at her and decided not to submit her name. I think she looks like Lori but I just can't find enough to make the story work with what we know (1988/1999 time frames is bothering me too much). If anyone else wants to submit her name as a possible match, please go ahead.

 

[Gardener1850]

Gardener,

FLEK changed her ID at least once. What if she had done it before? Maybe a nice girl like Tominson runs away, only 16 and can't work, gets fake ID saying she's 18? Maybe she met a handsome St@lder boy? Maybe the missing second girl is of the Lane County Oregon St@lder girls? Maybe uses a St@lder ID?

The only Emily Sta@lder....Lane County Oregon.
The only St@lder/B@rker connection in the world....Lane County Oregon.

I'm not sayin DT is DS...just saying that you never know : )

HawkFan, maybe you can explain what is it that you think connects DJS's story with FLEK's? From my reading of the old threads the only way DJS's trial story was even found was by people looking for criminals sentenced 402 months.
Emily has been in the top 25 baby names since the 1980's--it is popular even today. http://www.babynamewizard.com/baby-name/girl/emily
I don't think we should give it the weight you are giving it especially since it was used as middle name, JMO.
I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to the St@lder and B@rker connection in Oregon. Those two names are both common surnames. B@rker is extremely common. Were the Oregon B@rkers you are referencing related to the B@rkers who lived in the Idaho house? And what does Oregon have to do with FLEK other than it is geographically close to the where the Turner girls died in the fire in Fife, Washington? We don't have any evidence FLEK ever went to Washington, let alone Oregon.

And you completely lost me when you threw in "Deborah Tomlinson could be DJS". We have birth records and yearbook records of DJS and she had years-long history with the people she testified against. Pretty sure she couldn't be a runaway teen and testify in a trial without being found out. I haven't looked into Tomlinson too much but I imagine she also has a birth record and parents who miss her as well.

Lastly, I feel as if you are mocking us with this post but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt you are being serious and I have answered you seriously with no mocking tone meant at all.
Please list at least 3 things that tie DJS to FLEK other than the 402 Months reference. Without more evidence I really can't take the DJS theories seriously.

 

[HawkFan2014]

HawkFan, maybe you can explain what is it that you think connects DJS's story with FLEK's? From my reading of the old threads the only way DJS's trial story was even found was by people looking for criminals sentenced 402 months.
Emily has been in the top 25 baby names since the 1980's--it is popular even today. http://www.babynamewizard.com/baby-name/girl/emily
I don't think we should give it the weight you are giving it especially since it was used as middle name, JMO.
I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to the St@lder and B@rker connection in Oregon. Those two names are both common surnames. B@rker is extremely common. Were the Oregon B@rkers you are referencing related to the B@rkers who lived in the Idaho house? And what does Oregon have to do with FLEK other than it is geographically close to the where the Turner girls died in the fire in Fife, Washington? We don't have any evidence FLEK ever went to Washington, let alone Oregon.

And you completely lost me when you threw in "Deborah Tomlinson could be DJS". We have birth records and yearbook records of DJS and she had years-long history with the people she testified against. Pretty sure she couldn't be a runaway teen and testify in a trial without being found out. I haven't looked into Tomlinson too much but I imagine she also has a birth record and parents who miss her as well.

Lastly, I feel as if you are mocking us with this post but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt you are being serious and I have answered you seriously with no mocking tone meant at all.
Please list at least 3 things that tie DJS to FLEK other than the 402 Months reference. Without more evidence I really can't take the DJS theories seriously.

I do not think DT is DS. You said that you are sure FLEK is not St@lder. I said you never know. Don't be mad : )
I hope you solve this! Now you/us can get back to searching....

 

[Gardener1850]

I do not think DT is DS. You said that you are sure FLEK is not St@lder. I said you never know. Don't be mad : )
I hope you solve this! Now you/us can get back to searching....

I'm not mad at all. Thanks.

 

[Gardener1850]

FLEK tied to Turners: the young FLEK may have been friends with one of the three girls, or met the parents after the tragedy but somehow reminded one Turner or the other of their children. A grieving parent could dote on a replacement child, possibly?

JMHO

But, if they knew her why would they not say so? It would not necessarily implicate them if she was a non-family member who stole their dead daughter's ID. Even if she was a distant cousin they could have just said she did it without their knowledge. One more thing of note on the Turners. For all Lori knew about them, she did NOT know their correct birthdates. She guessed when she filled in the passport application. If she had been a close family friend or other family member she would know their birthdates, IMO. She took a big risk and the passport people apparently never checked her parents birthdates.

 

[StarrChance]

With regard to Holly Paul, I have stopped looking at her and decided not to submit her name. I think she looks like Lori but I just can't find enough to make the story work with what we know (1988/1999 time frames is bothering me too much). If anyone else wants to submit her name as a possible match, please go ahead.

I agree, quite a likeness but the dates and height are off.

 

[purplemonstertruck02]

This is what I think happened:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/49me9n/lori_erica_ruff_real_name/

 

[Laughing]

But, if they knew her why would they not say so? It would not necessarily implicate them if she was a non-family member who stole their dead daughter's ID. Even if she was a distant cousin they could have just said she did it without their knowledge. One more thing of note on the Turners. For all Lori knew about them, she did NOT know their correct birthdates. She guessed when she filled in the passport application. If she had been a close family friend or other family member she would know their birthdates, IMO. She took a big risk and the passport people apparently never checked her parents birthdates.

Also, the lack of birth dates calls her genealogy skills into question. I've given her a good deal of credit for this, you & I (and others) know the skill level needed to find Beckie Sue Turner.

Such a puzzle!

 

[docbh]

The other problem is that while she was obviously skilled in obtaining her new identity, she became increasingly disordered towards the end of her life. So it is hard to know what to make of the notes.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Sherwood Park]

This is what I think happened:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/49me9n/lori_erica_ruff_real_name/

She has already been accounted for. She is alive. She has a different last name now.

 

[ilovepierre]

Random question...how do we know BST isn't her birth name? Is it possible that is her birth name and for whatever reason she decided to change it to LEK?

Sorry if this is has been discussed already. I did read all the general discussion threads quite some time ago, I just can't recall/remember how it was determined that her birth name wasn't BST.

 

[EmiLove832]

Random question...how do we know BST isn't her birth name? Is it possible that is her birth name and for whatever reason she decided to change it to LEK?

Sorry if this is has been discussed already. I did read all the general discussion threads quite some time ago, I just can't recall/remember how it was determined that her birth name wasn't BST.

Meaning she stole Becky Sue Turners identity but her real name was Becky Sue Turner?

 

[newfiedee]

just an observation... loris notes contain eastern and south states except one Oregon... could it be that she did that intentionally or if not its not mentioned because it would call attention to where she could be from?????

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Bois...a4f647678f!2m2!1d-96.7969879!2d32.7766642!3e0