GUILTY TX - Mark Ysasaga, 15, Lubbock, 13 June 2012

[TxLady2]

the big difference between a cop and PI is that the PI was hired by a client (the family) whereas the cops have plenty of other matters competing for their time. you'd be surprised how many cops in many different jurisdictions do not take missing persons cases seriously unless there are some of the following factors involved - a. pretty blonde girl missing b. the MP is prominent in the community c. it looks like a crime was committed. if the MP is not white, not a pretty young female, is from a family that is poor or of modest means, the cases get very low priority.

I am not necessarily faulting LE as with the limited resources they have and the vast number of MP cases which resolve themselves favorably, it is often hard to justify the expense of search dogs, helicopters, draining of ponds, etc. when they know in the end the probability is that the MP will come home on his or her own.

PIs, since they are paid by the hour (presumably) have a financial incentive to make phone calls, follow up on messages, knocking on a few doors, etc. they give the families some sense of satisfaction that someone is actually paying attention to their situation and is actually doing something on their behalf.

BBM: That may be true in some places, esp. big cities, but it's not the same everywhere. They do take missing children's cases very seriously, but their hands are tied when it comes to missing adults or older teens, if there is some indication that the person left of their own free will. Not saying that's the case here, but the point is, LE may actually be doing much more investigating than the public is ever aware of. They do make phone calls, knock on doors, follow up on leads, but they don't stop to give us a minute to minute report.

I agree with your last paragraph, to a point. But while soothing the families' feathers may be important, it also takes away valuable time when they need to be out looking for someone. And there are a few unscrupulous PI's in high profile cases who do a lot of pandering and playing to the t.v. cameras and the family when in reality they are getting nothing done.

One last note, and this is not related to this case, but to others I've followed. A very good PI is not going to be a publicity hound and make appearances on JVM or Nancy Grace every night. He's going to be out there doing the job he's been paid to do.

No offense, you make some good points, but this is JMO.

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

Good afternoon everyone, hope you all are enjoying as bright and beautiful of a sunny day as I am
As a second semester student studying Private Investigations, as well as being affiliated with the particular "team" (CFSI-Texas) I saw a few questions I think I may be able to shed some light on
There are advantages and disadvantages when comes to being a PI on a case like this as opposed to being LE. Since the question was about the advantages, I will explain a few.
A PI on a missing person case is working for the person missings' well being. They are only there confirm that the person is alive and doesn't want to return (with the exception of minors), bring them home should they be in a situation they are having difficulty getting out of and need a helping hand, or worst case scenario be ablle to bring closure to a family who's loved one is found to be deceased. They are not out to bring justice for the family, or arrest anyone (they have no more rights in this area than a everyday citizen), that is what LE is for. They use alot of tactics to get the case seen everywhere, media (news, articles in paper) being the best tool. So many times someone may have seen something but has no idea they did until they see something that brings it to light for them. Media also is used to get the PIs objective out there and his/her contact info to as broad of an area as possible.
This particular PI, (Chuck Foreman) and his team, do not accept payment for locating a missing child/teen.
I hope I shed some light on at least some of your questions

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

You're quite welcome, and while I do not know any specifics about this case, if you have any general questions I will do my best to answer them, or contact someone who can. Thanks to all of you for the time and effort you put into helping others. Have a nice evening.

 

[mikkismom]

Kasey, I assume you are connected to this PI. Welcome! Glad you signed up.

If you took a group of very dedicated yet very different people and put them around a table and said 'What do you think?' - Well that's what you have here.

Read through - it might give you some ideas, some laughs and it may just well find Mark. That's our goal too.

JMO

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

Thank you for the welcome. And I totally agree, but diversity is good. That's how ideas are formed.
I have had the priviledge of volunteering off and on with this group in the past, and they are a very dedicated, talented team made strictly of volunteers.
And with the schedule I have, laughs are very welcome

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

BBM: They do take missing children's cases very seriously, but their hands are tied when it comes to missing adults or older teens, if there is some indication that the person left of their own free will. .

Unfortunantly due to most protocols, teens and adults are FIRST listed as voluntary (runaway etc) until proven OTHERWISE. Kinda backwards if you ask me. There are alot of organizations and even individuals working hard to get this changed. And I do hope it is. Too much crucial time is lost. The saying, "The First 48" is VERY true. It is the 48 leading UP to the disappearance, and the "48" after. In majority of these cases, that is lost.

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

I suppose one advantage of a PI is, some people don't trust cops and won't talk to them but they will talk to a PI, especially if they don't know he's one.
Some PI's also have a good buddy or two who is in LE, which doesn't hurt when they need information from resources that are not available to the public. Another point is, a PI usually only takes one or two cases at a time, so they work almost exclusively on one case, whereas LE has other cases they have to consider and deal with at the same time.
However, a good PI costs a lot of money. Most families could not afford them for an extended period of time. PI's throw a lot of money around, and call it expenses and sometimes the family gets billed for an enormous amount with no results whatsoever.

I totally agree with these answers. JMO. On cost though it really is determined by the situation. There are quite a few who volunteer their time and talents to find missing children. Not so many for adults though. Not that they are ANY less important, just when you look at 2500-3000 people going missing a day, they have to draw a line are they wouldn't have time to concentrate on any of them. To put it in a ratio, enough people go missing a year that the total would be equivilant to wiping out an entire city! We have long surpassed epidemic proportions.

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

I'm assuming the money is going towards the PI...

SDT- Just by doing a basic google search about what a PI can and cannot do (legally), they cannot access phone records, search a house, access any criminal records that aren't available to the public... so basically they don't have the power that the police do. I don't know why the police would work with a PI, hired by the family, when they have their own investigators/detectives that CAN search houses, make arrests, and attain records. That is just what I have read on the internet. Maybe someone will chime in that has experience or first-hand knowledge.

Some LE welcomes the fresh eyes of a PI, some don't. You never know which you will be greeted with Lol. I was with a group of volunteers working with a PI on a missing case in a small town. LE worked with the PI and what was SURE to be a tragedy in a matter of hours turned into one of the quickest rescues I've witnessed.
On the flip side, I had a class assignment last week where I had to go to the PD and interview an officer. He said that their particular department hasn't ever worked with one, and upon questioning him further he said his biggest complaint was that PIs don't generally notify the PD of what their doing, resulting in a mass of "someone is stalking me" calls. Lol. Needless to say when I get my license I will be notifying them

 

[SDT]

KaseyAlvarez,

Welcome to the board! I do appreciate your input as to the advantages and disadvantages of a PI being brought in on a missing persons case.

Let me see if I understood you correctly...Chuck Foreman's group would not require payment from the Mark's family since he is considered a child (teen)? Since you have worked with individuals within his group, have you heard about video being recovered and turned over to LE? I was told this morning by Anna Cuevas' cousin that there may be some video and it is being turned over to LE? If so, what kind of video do you think it may be?

TIA for any insight you are able to share.

If posting what I was told by a family member could be considered rumor, MODS please let me know and I will delete my post.

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

KaseyAlvarez,

Welcome to the board! I do appreciate your input as to the advantages and disadvantages of a PI being brought in on a missing persons case.

Let me see if I understood you correctly...Chuck Foreman's group would not require payment from the Mark's family since he is considered a child (teen)? Since you have worked with individuals within his group, have you heard about video being recovered and turned over to LE? I was told this morning by Anna Cuevas' cousin that there may be some video and it is being turned over to LE? If so, what kind of video do you think it may be?

TIA for any insight you are able to share.

If posting what I was told by a family member could be considered rumor, MODS please let me know and I will delete my post.

Hi Thanks for the welcome. Not only will he not require it, he will not accept it.


Per Chuck Foreman:
"
Tonight , CFSI TEXAS submitted a investigation file
( statement, video/photo ) to Lubbock Detectives.

That we hope will help
Mark find his way home.


Please know. No further details will be given until LPD
Has the time to do their job.

Please Pray This Information Leads US To Anthony (MARK)"

I spoke to him in regards to this, and he assured me this is ALL that has been released. So if anything else is made out of this that you hear, it is rumor

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

Another way you can decipher fact/rumor, is the team will NOT release what may/may not have been in any reports nor on any tapes/video as it could seriously damage the police investigation. Of course no one wants to see that happen
The things turned over to LPD, are a good example of the positives of a PI working on a missing child/person case. Whereas MOST Pds have a back log of cases, a PI only has the ONE they are working on. No division of time needed between case, allowing them to spend all day everyday using their training (which actually is more intense that is required of an officer) on that one person. When PD and PI work hand in hand with their talents and training it generally results in a much quicker resolution
Thank you for allowing me the opp. to answer your questions, knowledge is power

 

[southsleuth]

A big thanks to KA!!

 

[southsleuth]

WS has lots of cases that can use your insight. Welcome!

 

[momtective]

KaseyAlvarez,

Welcome to the board! I do appreciate your input as to the advantages and disadvantages of a PI being brought in on a missing persons case.

Let me see if I understood you correctly...Chuck Foreman's group would not require payment from the Mark's family since he is considered a child (teen)? Since you have worked with individuals within his group, have you heard about video being recovered and turned over to LE? I was told this morning by Anna Cuevas' cousin that there may be some video and it is being turned over to LE? If so, what kind of video do you think it may be?

TIA for any insight you are able to share.

If posting what I was told by a family member could be considered rumor, MODS please let me know and I will delete my post.

I'm hoping the video is "the fight video" that was once on Mark's fb page, then quickly removed. I feel that this video is crucial as I feel that Mark's disappearance is directly related UFC type fights, his desperate attempt to get an iphone from his mother just hours before he disappeared (possibly to record planned fight), and more than likely gambling on these fights. All jmo.

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

Thanks again for the warm welcomes..

 

[momtective]

This was a story from back in Feb. regarding High school fight clubs...just happens to be the very school Mark attended, if I'm not mistaken...coincidence? :waitasec:
http://www.kcbd.com/story/16956427/parents-alarmed-by-middle-school-fight-club-2

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

I do not know the contents of his final report. What I can explain is what exactly a PIs final report is. A final report is a summary of all the documentation and what is contained in each one from the beginning of the case. It also contains the documentation itself, as well as any evidence that backs it up, whether it be photos, video, voice recordings etc.
IF his final report does in fact hold video, I wouldn't think it would be the video from online. If members of the public saw it, I'm sure LE did also. And actually may very well have been who pulled it. JMO.

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

Disturbing trend: Teen fight clubs - YouTube

Teens fighting online actually is a very big trend and had been a couple years now. Some of fights that are actually set up between each other, some are actual attacks that have led to prosecution.
It's going on all over not just our nation, but the world.
IMO the video was most likely pulled to avoid premature retaliation and harrassment. Basically for the safety of the other teen who may, but very well may not know anything about his disappearance.

 

[PanTx]

Thank you for all the valuable information Kasey! I hope you continue to contribute to this case! I know we are all worried about Mark and want him to be found... I'm hoping the PI will help his family bring him home.

Since this family is receiving services from the PI at no cost, that once again raises the question, where is all of the money going that has been donated/raised? At one time it was posted by the family that the family from one particular fundraiser was going towards the reward but it has yet to be raised. I am in no way accusing the family of anything... I am just curious why there haven't been any answers. IMO, if the public is donating money, the public should be aware of where it is going.

 

[KaseyAlvarez]

Thank you for all the valuable information Kasey! I hope you continue to contribute to this case! I know we are all worried about Mark and want him to be found... I'm hoping the PI will help his family bring him home.

Since this family is receiving services from the PI at no cost, that once again raises the question, where is all of the money going that has been donated/raised? At one time it was posted by the family that the family from one particular fundraiser was going towards the reward but it has yet to be raised. I am in no way accusing the family of anything... I am just curious why there haven't been any answers. IMO, if the public is donating money, the public should be aware of where it is going.

I do agree. I've seen this debated many times. The most current being a young lady missing, the public has donated and the family used the donations for a pyschic. Some people are saying once it's donated to the family it's not the publics business, some saying they donated it is their business.
IMO a seperate account should be set up and public should be provided access in these situations. Reason I say that, is it would have to be that way were it a charity accepting donations. Same rules should apply. But that's just me.
Is there a thread on Nieko Lisi? That's one I would really like to read everyones thoughts on if there is.