I believe so. Without going back to look at the docs. I suppose the home property could be estimation of net asset value, having subtracted outstanding mortgage, but there were no credit card or other personal outstanding loans listed, so.. I'll go look again when I have more time.
Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #5
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CANADA ON - Heather Stoodley, 18, not seen since moving off grid with dad due to "religious obligation", Oct 2021
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I believe so. Without going back to look at the docs. I suppose the home property could be estimation of net asset value, having subtracted outstanding mortgage, but there were no credit card or other personal outstanding loans listed, so.. I'll go look again when I have more time.
Or, perhaps she was thinking about leaving and he wanted her to stay and work things out. Their age difference really isn't all that much, but when you're getting "up" there in years... I see MC as being content with life as it was, knowing that they could sell their home and shop down the road if need be, but BC was still enjoying working and going out, seeing people, possibly drinking too much at times and obviously feeling restless ( or just having a harder time dealing with aging- I'm a wee bit older than BC and can hardly believe I'm as friggin' old as I am!).
Thank you!
For all we know BC planned to leave but broke her wrist and had nowhere else to recuperate. A married lover’s wife wouldn’t be cool with that. For all we know MC was set to kick her out but held off because of the broken wrist, and during her recuperation he felt they’d rekindled a bond. For all we knows MC suffered in silence because he felt he was too old to start over. People stay in unhealthy relationships for a lot of reasons.
One of the VI said in an earlier thread that BC had been discussing moving out with a roommate. I also think her actions do not appear to be someone driven from financial hardship (at least after she had him declared dead) as much as not wanting the house, property, and cars. Not wanting the stuff and lifestyle he wanted. Not to say it would have been easy or smart for her to keep, just she could have downsized the car collection and worked and stayed a good while longer if she had really wanted that. So agree with you that they were not the same with what they wanted at this stage in life. They may have argued about this, normal couples do.
After reading on several sites I don't think debts and mortgages are probated. Only assets. It is the responsibility of the executor to pay the bills and advise creditors of his death but only the assets go through probate court so that they can correctly change hands. Also any insurance that is paid upon death or investment changing hands like his pension and DROP do not probate.
<rsbm>This may very well be the case:
I just looked at the property tax information for their home in Quinlan from 2016.
Under Property Values, it says the Market Value of the property is $236,650.
One half of that is $118,325, the exact number listed as the value of the property on the inventory sheet.
So perhaps BC used the market value, as appraised by the county appraiser, in determining the value of the Quinlan property, and what is listed on the sheet is MCs half:
http://esearch.hunt-cad.org/Property/View/27571?year=2016
Thank you! I think this shows perfectly that the assets shown are MC's half of the community property based on an appraised value that the court finds acceptable. When I searched I did not find any instructions on listing mortgages or debts the estate owed so I think these are just assets.
I read several articles on the issues last year with the DROP. And the employee handbook on retirement benefits linked here. It shows that average pay at 20 years is $80,000+ but if he achieved the level of Driver or Lt or some other distinctions the pay is $90,000+. I don't believe he was ever referred to as a Capt so I won't go any higher. But certainly after 36 yrs he could have been at or close to $90,000. The normal monthly pension pays 90% of that. But it can pay less under a couple of circumstances. Normally the surviving spouse only receives 50% of what you receive but you can set it up for the spouse to receive 100% of the monthly pension payment however you receive somewhat less each month. So you retire with 90% of your pay and it cuts to 50% for your spouse thereafter, or you receive something less that 90% but it doesn't change for your spouse after your death. Another way you receive somewhat less than the fill 90% is if you participate in DROP which we know he did. The DROP was set up as a separate investment account like a 401K but was designed for you to get a lump sum from if you wanted. Even a portion of the monthly pension payment could be invested into the DROP just as you were when you were actively employed. But the investment into the DROP had to stop at 70.5 and you had to start taking money out at that age too. The trouble Dallas had with the shortfall was happening at the same time as whatever was happening in their lives. And Dallas stopped the lump sum for a few months and would only pay $3000 a month for a couple of months (Jan and Feb 2017) to those who were taking a distribution from that account to prevent a run. That is in addition to his normal monthly pension payment. Upon death the spouse receives the full DROP just as a spouse receives the 401K. I'm not sure if and when they reinstated the lump sum pay out. Or what she can take at her age. I will check into that more after church.
Regarding their income and living paycheck to paycheck keep in mind he was also working with his SIL part time so that was another source of income. But the oddities with their mortgage refinancing seemed to indicate they were not too concerned with paying it down. I think a lot of firefighters and police, when they reach 70.5 and can no longer invest in the DROP, use that lump sum to pay off their mortgage and live on the monthly pension. Maybe there was a disagreement between BC and MC over how to take the DROP and how to spend it.
Midge Montana
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I'm going to have to do some searching these threads. I understood it that BC was complaining she was living with a 'roommate'. Which is why, at that time, suicide did become a real possibility for me, as I let my thoughts travel down a certain path. Off to search!
ETA: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-3&p=13603026#post13603026
From our VI Steel54.
"I do know for a fact that there were some tension between the two. BC had made comments about living with a roommate and MC had told me that BC had been going out drinking and at times till around 3 in the morning. I also know that a female friend of hers had accused her of having an affair with her husband. MC was aware of the accusation."
I It does cause me some dismay because I wonder how many spouses say that. I've said it.
When you've been married that long, unfortunately, you do lapse into what feels like a brother/sister or roommate relationship.
I don't know about anyone else, but the early 60s (age I'm talking about) is a tricky age. She may have felt her attractability quotient was soon going to hit the skids as age marched on.
And she needed to feel the thrill of "passionate love" or sex.
I am in no way defending her behavior.
(having boyfriends outside of marriage.) Only that, if true, I understand it.
I suspect in the coming years, she may come to deeply regret that she didn't try harder. (If the above is true).
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inmyhumbleopinion
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Yes, I agree that the amount shown as the value of the Quinlan property is indeed MCs half.
Im still not sure about the values of the items listed under Schedule F (Miscellaneous Property and Vehicles), especially since I have virtually no knowledge as to how much classic cars are worth.
Midge Montana
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Lots of people grow bored in their relationships.
The point is that in the majority of these relationships one of the partners doesn't usually end up VANISHED.
The point is that in the majority of these relationships one of the partners doesn't usually end up VANISHED.
I agree. But some may see no hope that the marriage can't and won't be salvaged and therefore their life is no longer worth living.
IMO, that could be why BC appears/feels guilty. She won't talk about it because, she may rightfully suspect suicide and feels it is her fault. There were probably awful things she threw at him (and maybe he returned some ugliness too) that can't be unsaid or undone. I do believe she knows what happened but I don't think it was murder. (Not anymore, anyway).
Do I think he walked away? As much as I'd like to think so, I don't see it. The woman he loved most in the world didn't love him back. (But, even though no longer love in the romantic sense, I think she loved him.)
Why can't they find him? I don't know but I'd look again around the bridge.
I don't think any of these younger men see her as anything but an experienced roll in the hay. It will dawn on her soon enough imo, that there is no future happiness there.
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SavetheQueen
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Midge Montana
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Right? Although I will say that I watch a LOT of ID, lol, and when there's a love triangle at the crux of a case, it is never that the injured spouse commits suicide.
To summarize my opinion; while not all triangles end up with someone dead, in cases where someone in a triangle ends up dead, it's not typically by their own hand.
inmyhumbleopinion
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If she knows what happened and it was suicide, wouldnt she still want him found? Even if their relationship was strained or even beyond repair, he is the father of her children after all.
To the best of my knowledge, she has never once asked the public to help find him, nor has she facilitated a single search.
Just like her having him declared deceased less than three months after his disappearance, this silence on her part is rather unusual, IMO. In fact, of the many missing persons cases I have followed that turned out to be suicide, I dont believe Ive seen anything like it.
That's a very good point imho. But how do we know she hasn't been on LE to do all they can? If she asked for help, do you think anyone would have taken her seriously? It seems people on a certain fb page were accusing her of murdering her husband. I wonder if
her pleas would have been met with silence, disdain and more accusations.
Also, she probably feared, and rightly so, that her extra curricular activities were going to come to the forefront.
They did and maybe as she feared it dragged a bunch of "innocent" people in the middle. Who wouldn't think she was guilty?! Everyone did/does!
And maybe she's mad as hell that MC left her in this mess. (Before anyone jumps on me, I'm opining. Just putting it out there.)
As I said before, that house, taxes on all three properties, any outstanding debts on cars, insurance, and anything else, was going to sink her. I would have done the same thing. I'm sorry, but this was no time to be sentimental.
I was going to try to map out their monthly expenses but I'm going to leave it at the mortgage and taxes on just the Quinlan land instead. The Quinlan house was to be their retirement house. I'll bet she thought she was living in a castle. Unfortunately, I think the house and everything else became a ball and chain after a few years when she realized money was scarce after all the bills had been paid. It may have caused resentment over the years.
I've come upon this conclusion, not because I want to, but to me, it makes the most sense. I honestly don't know about the GPS and the things SM reported about following the signal from the home to the bridge. But I sure would be checking it out to prove or disprove that theory and...I'd want divers back in the water.
I'm hoping that Klein can get his hands on the phone and have someone else look at it.
If I'm wrong, I will be on my knees begging for forgiveness and I'll personally attend any trial that is held
to hold the right people responsible.
I think the daughters at this point are in a better position to ask for help than BC.
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And if I can just add on here, I remember the press conference and one of the daughters was very strong in stating that in no way did her father commit suicide. If I'd been BC, there is no way in heck I'm going to dispute her or the others. I am sure the daughters are wonderful people but honestly, they scare me a bit and no way, as a step mother, am I going to argue that issue.
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(BBM - Not only bolded by me, but the bolded sentences also set apart in separate paragraphs by me.)
Those sentences jumped out at me, and I wanted to highlight your words.
Such profound wisdom is embedded within these statements! What a depth of understanding and kindness your words convey.
Thank you! I am so very grateful you shared these insights.
They have made a deep impression on me...
If BC was scared of MC’s daughters wouldn’t she make an effort to publicly support them or at least try to look less guilty in the public eye. In light of BC’s actions (what we know), her silence feels like indifference.
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