GUILTY TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #4

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And this is the same attitude she got from the males in her environment. Yes, you are assuming that she didn't fear him, when clearly she did because she told her family and close friends that she did. It's like you have this sour view or opinion regarding this case....

Respectfully, you mistake my attitude. My heart goes out to VGs family.

You say:

“clearly she did [fear him - AR] because she told her family and her close friends that she did.”

Have you any source for what you say?

Because here on WS, VGs mom was quoted as saying VG refused to name any names.

Here on WS, there are no quotes from family or friends that VG ever mentioned the name AR to them.

My attitude is that it is better to allege only facts for which there is actual evidence.
 
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images

image from kxan.com
 
Respectfully,NsBetsy, your post confuses me! Are you saying that the whole time that poor VG was missing, until her remains were found, VGs family and friends knew that AR had sexually harassed VG - but failed to come forward and report that as soon as VG disappeared

If think if you check this thread, you will find that no sister ever said on this thread that VG had identified AR as someone who had harassed her.

According to Mayra, she did not know prior to poor VS demise anything about AR.

The atty has never spoken to VG.

VG never told the VG family attorney about AR.

The name AR never appeared on this thread until after AR killed himself.

Please give a quote or exact source for your allegations that you say are facts.

Thank you.
 
Fort Hood commander is REMOVED from his post after deaths of soldiers at the army base | Daily Mail Online

Sept 1, 2020

The commander of Fort Hood has been removed from his post following the deaths of at least 15 soldiers connected to the troubled army base.

Major General Scott Efflandt has been removed from his position as commander of the base and will also no longer take on the role of commander of a division at Fort Bliss, the US Army announced in a statement Tuesday.

[..]

The decision comes following a string of tragedies and deaths, including Vanessa Guillen, that have plagued the Texas Army base. Fifteen soldiers connected to Fort Hood have died this year alone, with foul play suspected in five of the deaths.

The commanding general of US Army Forces Command, Gen. Michael Garrett, has directed Maj. Gen. John Richardson IV to formally assume the role of acting commander at Fort Hood from Wednesday, the statement read.

Efflandt will stay on at Fort Hood for the time being, serving as deputy commanding general for support until the new commander is assigned to the role.

The army also announced that Garrett will appoint Gen. John Murray, commanding general of US Futures Command, to 'lead an in-depth investigation into the chain of command actions related to Spc. Vanessa Guillen.'

[..]
 
Fort Hood commander is REMOVED from his post after deaths of soldiers at the army base | Daily Mail Online

Sept 1, 2020

Timeline of Fort Hood disappearances/deaths

February 1, 2020
: PVT Eric Christopher Hogan and PFC Anthony Nevelle Peak Jr. die in a car crash

March 1, 2020: SPC Shelby Tyler Jones is shot dead at a convenience store in Killeen

March 5, 2020: Spc. Christopher Wayne Sawyer found dead at his home. Foul play is not suspected.

March 14, 2020: SPC Freddy Beningo Delacruz Jr. is killed in a triple murder

March 23, 2020: Fort Hood soldier Spc. Jovino Jamel Roy, 22, was charged with murder after allegedly shooting former Fort Hood soldier Michael Steven Wardrobe, 22

April 22, 2020: Vanessa Guillen goes missing and is last seen in the parking lot of the base. She disappeared after telling her family she was being sexually harassed by a sergeant on the base.

May 18, 2020: Body of Army Pfc. Brandon S. Rosecrans, 27, was discovered with gunshot wounds and his Jeep was found three miles away engulfed in flames.

June 19, 2020: Search teams discover the corpse of missing soldier Pvt. Gregory Wedel-Morales following a tip to Army base investigators. Remains were found in a field in Killeen, just over 10 miles from Stillhouse Hollow Lake, five miles from Fort Hood.

July 1, 2020: First parts of Giullen's remains found about 20 miles east of Fort Hood.

Spc. Aaron Robinson, 20, kills himself. Officials say he killed and dismembered Guillén and had the remains disposed of.

July 17, 2020: Pvt. Mejhor Morta, 26, of Pensacola, Florida was found dead July 17 in the vicinity of Stillhouse Hollow Lake, around 15 miles from the Fort Hood base.

August 2, 2020: The body of Spc. Francisco Gilberto Hernandezvargas, 24, is recovered from Stillhouse Hollow Lake following boating incident not far from where Morta was found.

August 12, 2020: Spc. Cole Jakob Aton, 22, of Kentucky died after he was hit by a car as he was assisting a minor accident scene

August 13, 2020: National Guard soldier, Sgt Bradley Moore dies during a training exercise at the base

August 19, 2020: Sgt. Elder Fernandes, 23, is reported missing after he was last seen on August 17.

August 26, 2020: The body of Fernandes is believed to have been found about 30 miles from Fort Hood
 
Please disregard if already posted.

US ARMY
Published 1 hour ago
Army announces new Fort Hood investigation amid leadership change

Maj. Gen. John B. Richardson IV will become deputy commanding general of III Corps operations and acting senior commander of the Texas facility on Wednesday

But Fort Hood’s current commanding officer, Maj. Gen. Scott Efflandt, will remain at the base rather than taking command of the 1st Armored Division as previously planned.

Army announces new Fort Hood investigation amid leadership change
 
Just saw this!!

Fort Hood Commander Removed from Post After Deaths, Disappearances Tied to Base
The shakeup comes after after a series of suspicious deaths and disappearances that have plagued Fort Hood
By Christine Pelisek
September 02, 2020 03:43 PM
The U.S. Army on Tuesday announced the removal of its top commander at Fort Hood in Texas.

Maj. Gen Scott Efflandt was also denied the command position for the 1st Armored Division.
The Army said Efflandt will stay at Fort Hood and continue to serve as the deputy commanding general for support.
On Tuesday, the Army also announced that Gen. John Murray, the commanding general of Army Futures Command, would lead an “in-depth investigation into the chain of command actions related to Spc. Vanessa Guillen.”
In late June, the partial remains of the 20-year-old Guillen were discovered in a shallow grave near the Leon River in rural Bell County. Guillen’s suspected killer, Spc. Aaron David Robinson, 20, died by suicide as police closed in on him.
[...]
Last month, the body of Sgt. Elder Fernandes, 23, was found hanging from a tree near a railroad. He was last seen by his staff sergeant on August 17, when a sergeant dropped him off at his residence. Shortly after Fernandes disappeared, Lt. Col. Chris Brautigam, a 1st Cavalry Division public affairs officer, said in a statement to CNN that there was an "open investigation of abusive sexual contact" involving Fernandes, who was classified as a victim in the inquest.
Through their attorney, Fernandes' family allege that an assault did happen, and said it impacted Fernandes' mental well-being. The Army later said those claims were "unsubstantiated."
[...]
In early August, Brandon Michael Olivares, 28, was accused of killing 27-year-old Pfc. Brandon Scott Rosecrans. Police said Olivares and Rosecrans were traveling together in Rosecrans’ Jeep Renegade before he was shot. His Jeep was later found engulfed in flames.

-----------------------------
More here:
Fort Hood Commander Removed from Post After Deaths, Disappearances Tied to Base
 
Just the opposite. If AR had previously SEXUALLY harassed her, VG should indeed have feared him very much!

But the NY Times says she went to his Armor room ALL ALONE.

This part is my opinion: If VG had feared AR as a sexual harasser, she would not have gone to his room ALL BY HERSELF!

As a teen, I worked at a place where the male manager sexually harassed every single one of us females who worked there. He made our skin crawl, but we still had to do our jobs, which included walking into his office alone. Until there was physical evidence, with witnesses, not one victim dared avoid going to his office or speak out, because you got fired. One day, I got that physical evidence (bruising) and two witnesses. He plead guilty to the assault, but the company refused to fire him. It took another assault on another employee, with bleeding and witnesses before he was fired.

I used this personal experience to illustrate why coworkers will continue to interact with harassers, even when alone. It's their job, they've got self-doubt, they need to pay their bills, they work in a system that protects perps, they need to pay the bills...

ETA: We don't know what transpired between VG and AR, and we really can't get inside either of their minds. We can't put the onus on VG to skip out on parts of her job to protect herself.
 
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Just the opposite. If AR had previously SEXUALLY harassed her, VG should indeed have feared him very much!

But the NY Times says she went to his Armor room ALL ALONE.

This part is my opinion: If VG had feared AR as a sexual harasser, she would not have gone to his room ALL BY HERSELF!

As a teen, I worked at a place where the male manager sexually harassed every single one of us females who worked there. He made our skin crawl, but we still had to do our jobs, which included walking into his office alone. Until there was physical evidence, with witnesses, not one victim dared avoid going to his office or speak out, because you got fired. One day, I got that physical evidence (bruising) and two witnesses. He plead guilty to the assault, but the company refused to fire him. It took another assault with bleeding and witnesses before he was fired.

I used this personal experience to illustrate why coworkers will continue to interact with harassers, even when alone. It's their job, they've got self-doubt, they need to pay their bills, they work in a system that protects perps, they need to pay the bills...

ETA: We don't know what transpired between VG and AR, and we really can't get inside either of their minds. We can't put the onus on VG to skip out on parts of her job to protect herself.[/QUOTE]
Just the opposite. If AR had previously SEXUALLY harassed her, VG should indeed have feared him very much!

But the NY Times says she went to his Armor room ALL ALONE.

This part is my opinion: If VG had feared AR as a sexual harasser, she would not have gone to his room ALL BY HERSELF!

As a teen, I worked at a place where the male manager sexually harassed every single one of us females who worked there. He made our skin crawl, but we still had to do our jobs, which included walking into his office alone. Until there was physical evidence, with witnesses, not one victim dared avoid going to his office or speak out, because you got fired. One day, I got that physical evidence (bruising) and two witnesses. He plead guilty to the assault, but the company refused to fire him. It took another assault with bleeding and witnesses before he was fired.

I used this personal experience to illustrate why coworkers will continue to interact with harassers, even when alone. It's their job, they've got self-doubt, they need to pay their bills, they work in a system that protects perps, they need to pay the bills...

ETA: We don't know what transpired between VG and AR, and we really can't get inside either of their minds. We can't put the onus on VG to skip out on parts of her job to protect herself.[/QUOTE]
Your experience is yours.

VG was negaotiating a complex and dangerous military terrain from within.
Complaining is a career and cadre ending act.
She was on track to make the US Army her life.
I doubt anyone could anticipate being murdered in a an open work area in the afternoon.
MOO she was brave in her actions, and at worst tried to handle her own problem.
 
<modsnip>
Now I need some help:

Leaving aside all hopes, ideas and opinions:

Can anyone show me - actually quoting, - any report or statement by VG’s mother, sister or friend that VG verbally told her mother, family or friends the name. “AR”.

An actual quote from mother family or friends. Not “obviously/clearly she did”. An actual quote.

thank you.
 
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As a teen, I worked at a place where the male manager sexually harassed every single one of us females who worked there. He made our skin crawl, but we still had to do our jobs, which included walking into his office alone. Until there was physical evidence, with witnesses, not one victim dared avoid going to his office or speak out, because you got fired. One day, I got that physical evidence (bruising) and two witnesses. He plead guilty to the assault, but the company refused to fire him. It took another assault with bleeding and witnesses before he was fired.

I used this personal experience to illustrate why coworkers will continue to interact with harassers, even when alone. It's their job, they've got self-doubt, they need to pay their bills, they work in a system that protects perps, they need to pay the bills...

ETA: We don't know what transpired between VG and AR, and we really can't get inside either of their minds. We can't put the onus on VG to skip out on parts of her job to protect herself.


As a teen, I worked at a place where the male manager sexually harassed every single one of us females who worked there. He made our skin crawl, but we still had to do our jobs, which included walking into his office alone. Until there was physical evidence, with witnesses, not one victim dared avoid going to his office or speak out, because you got fired. One day, I got that physical evidence (bruising) and two witnesses. He plead guilty to the assault, but the company refused to fire him. It took another assault with bleeding and witnesses before he was fired.

I used this personal experience to illustrate why coworkers will continue to interact with harassers, even when alone. It's their job, they've got self-doubt, they need to pay their bills, they work in a system that protects perps, they need to pay the bills...

ETA: We don't know what transpired between VG and AR, and we really can't get inside either of their minds. We can't put the onus on VG to skip out on parts of her job to protect herself.[/QUOTE]
Your experience is yours.

VG was negaotiating a complex and dangerous military terrain from within.
Complaining is a career and cadre ending act.
She was on track to make the US Army her life.
I doubt anyone could anticipate being murdered in a an open work area in the afternoon.
MOO she was brave in her actions, and at worst tried to handle her own problem.
[/QUOTE]

BBM

Thank you, Boxer!!! The Like button just wasn't enough!

VG is a soldier.
VG died as a soldier doing a soldier's job.
Soldiers work within squads, platoons, companies, brigades, armies.
Armorers work in arms rooms.

AFAIK, choice & flexibilty are NOT a part of soldiering.

RIP, Vanessa, peace & comfort for your family & loved ones!

upload_2020-9-6_7-33-34.jpeg
image from abc13.com
 
<modsnip>
Now I need some help:

Leaving aside all hopes, ideas and opinions:

Can anyone show me - actually quoting, - any report or statement by VG’s mother, sister or friend that VG verbally told her mother, family or friends the name. “AR”.

An actual quote from mother family or friends. Not “obviously/clearly she did”. An actual quote.

thank you.

Can you provide a link or quote from anywhere that supports your assertion that VG or anyone reported AR to the Amy before he killed VG?

IIRC No one said that he was reported before her murder.
 
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Can you provide a link or quote from anywhere that supports your assertion that VG or anyone reported AR to the Amy before he killed VG?

IIRC No one said that he was reported before her murder.
Right, there was never an official report of sexual harrassment to the army but Vanessa had told her mother, a good friend, and other soldiers about the harrassment.

After the arrest and after the death of AR, didn't the attorney hold a press conference and say that the suspect was the same person who had been harassing her? Also I thought the sister had said it was AR that Vanessa was referring to. At some point either Vanessa or someone she told must have given the family his name. They seemed to know right away.

I'm sure I remember the attorney clarifying that he was the one. I don't know where to start looking for the link, but I thought we discussed it before.
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

I don't think VG would have had a choice not to go to the Armory Room and be alone with him. He directed her to come to the armory room, so it would appear she was following orders.

If she had felt comfortable enough to report him without fear of retaliation, then the army may have taken steps to ensure her safety.

After the news was released that the suspect had committed suicide, the attorney made a statement stating that the suspect was the person who had harassed VG. I don't think they named him at that time, but I'm not sure who else she could have been talking about.

Imo
 
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Right, there was never an official report of sexual harrassment to the army but Vanessa had told her mother, a good friend, and other soldiers about the harrassment.

After the arrest and after the death of AR, didn't the attorney hold a press conference and say that the suspect was the same person who had been harassing her? Also I thought the sister had said it was AR that Vanessa was referring to. At some point either Vanessa or someone she told must have given the family his name. They seemed to know right away.

I'm sure I remember the attorney clarifying that he was the one. I don't know where to start looking for the link, but I thought we discussed it before.
I found one article that states AR was one of the men who harassed Vanessa. From ABC 13- "Fort Hood Soldier Vanessa Guillen's Family says Suspect who Died by Suicide was Tied to her Disappearance."

In the article Khawan revealed two alleged incidents of sexual harassment- a superior walking in on VG in the shower and another who made vulgar remarks to her in Spanish.

Khawan stated, "The person who died by suicide was the superior in the shower incident."
 
Well our resident Double-Post-Gremlin has been busy!

Thanks so much to the multitude of posters sticking to the Victim-Friendly premise of our Websleuths community.

Thanks to those with knowledge & experience of military life.

RIP Vanessa!

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image from refinery29.com
 
@jondaba

This is a response to several of your posts from the past couple of months.

It is very naive of you to believe that BG would not have gone to AR's armor room if she feared being sexually harassed by him. If women avoided going anywhere they feared being sexually harassed, they would never leave their houses. Sexual harassment is pervasive.
Unfortunately, women are used to sexual harassment.

Just because she feared being sexually harassed by AR, that doesn't mean that she feared physical harm at his hands.
Sexual harassers typically do things like ask women out on dates after the women have already turned them down, make comments on their bodies or tell them they look hot, etc. Few escalate to rape an murder.

VG most likely expected AR to harass her in the usual way, perhaps by asking her out or making comments about her appearance. She probably didn't expect to be raped and murdered.

Why do you keep harping on the fact the Vanessa went to AR's armor room "ALL ALONE." Who was she supposed to take with her? Are you under the impression that the army provides personal body guards for soldiers?
Not going to AR's armor room would have been dereliction of duty. Are you suggesting that she should have risked a court martial in order to avoid an unwanted request for a date or unwanted comments about her appearance?
By the way, what is the difference, in your mind, between "all alone" and "alone." I'm not clear on why you are including the word "all." Perhaps you could clarify.

I'm also not clearly on why you're harping on the fact that VG's family didn't mention AR's name publicly until after AR's suicide. They have undoubtedly learned a great deal of information since that time. They now say that AR was one of VG's harassers. Are you calling them liars?
 

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