TX TX - President John F. Kennedy, 46, Dallas, 22 Nov 1963

[passionflower]

I remember watching this live on tv. It's shocking even today.

School was called off that day because of the ongoing funeral ceremonies for JFK. My mom was doing the laundry downstairs, watching a portable tv. She came running upstairs yelling like crazy and we all ran to the closest tv to watch this.

Everyone was glued to their tv from morning to night in the days after the assassination. It was wall to wall coverage most of the time. Looking back, it was a surreal experience. The only thing that came close to it was 9-11.

Regarding the investigation, I think Oswald did it and acted alone. However, there were many red flags and mistakes made that could have prevented it. Part of the secrecy probably resulted from the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, etc. trying to give the least damaging account of the events. Congress, the State Dept and the Pentagon were deeply concerned about national security at the time, too.

I was in 8th grade at school and our principal put the radio on the intercom. Pure chaos. Watched all even Oswald murdered by Jack Ruby that was dying of cancer.
I;ve spent years reading and watching everything I can, so many secrets from public and blotched up investigations

 

[passionflower]

Dorothy Kilgallen (1913 - 1965)
What did she know about the assassination?

LINK:

I do remember her but never knew about her newspaper column

 

[Richard]

A centerfire rifle fires a cartridge which consists of a brass shell casing, primer, powder, and bullet. When it is fired, a striker (firing pin) hits the primer at the rear of the shell casing, causing it to ignite the powder. The rapid expansion of the burning powder propels the bullet alone through the rifle barrel toward the target.

Investigators found three spent cartridge cases on the floor near the 6th floor corner window of the Texas School Depository Building. There was one unfired round chambered in the rifle when it was found - also on the 6th floor.

Here is an evidence photo of the one remaining cartridge found in the rifle:

Here is a photo of a bullet (CE 399) which was traced by matching rifling marks to the same rifle found on the 6th floor:



The bullet was found either in the Presidential Limousine and/or on a hospital gurney used to transport either Kennedy or Connally from the Limousine to the Emergency Room of Parkland Memorial Hospital.

Below is a photo of one of the three expended cartridge shell casings found on the floor near the "Sniper's" window on the 6th floor:

Two of the shell casings were found very close together near the wall, while the third casing was a short distance away from them, as seen in this evidence photo.

The furthest shell casing had a badly dented mouth (where the bullet would be seated) and many scratches indicating that it had been chambered and ejected numerous times in the rifle. This shell could have been used to practice chambering and dry firing the rifle. Without a bullet nose to guide the cartridge into the chamber, damage/denting to the front of the casing might have occurred.



The dented shell (left in above photo) may have been kept chambered in the rifle due to negligence or intentionally as a safety measure.

If the shooter had ejected it prior to the shooting, with the rifle pointed away from the window, it might explain how it ended up further away from the other two undamaged shell casings.

This information might support a conclusion that the 6th floor window shooter fired only two and not three shots. Which would add support to theories that more than the one shooter was involved.

LINK:

JFK Assassination: National Archives Reveal Another Side to the Story

JFK Assassination: National Archives Reveal Another Side to the Story

mashable.com

 

[Richard]

James Tague, the third person wounded during the JFK assassination shootings.

James Thomas Tague (October 17, 1936 – February 28, 2014) was a car salesman who received minor injuries during the assassination of United States President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas.

• Born: October 17, 1936, Plainfield, Indiana, United States
• Died: February 28, 2014, Bonham, Texas, United States

LINKS:

James Tague - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ON THIS DAY | 22 | 1963: 'I was injured by Kennedy killer'

 

[airportwoman]

Did anyone see the program on CNN last night about the people who believe that JFK is still alive (and 106 years old) and he and JFK Jr. are going to retake the presidency?

One interviewee whose mother, a SCHOOLTEACHER, got wrapped up in this had to obtain temporary legal guardianship over her mother at one point, when the mother walked away from her job and her life. It sounds like a manic episode to me.

 

[Betty P]

Did anyone see the program on CNN last night about the people who believe that JFK is still alive (and 106 years old) and he and JFK Jr. are going to retake the presidency?

One interviewee whose mother, a SCHOOLTEACHER, got wrapped up in this had to obtain temporary legal guardianship over her mother at one point, when the mother walked away from her job and her life. It sounds like a manic episode to me.

It was on my tv, I listened to some of it. I’m glad CNN is making a big deal of the problem. They’re trying to let people know its a serious problem for many of these people. They said most don’t believe that JFK and his son are still alive, they just like belonging to the group and talking about crazy stuff.

 

[airportwoman]

I think a lot of them are like Flat Earthers, in that most of them don't believe any of it and think it's a big joke, and say they believe it just to get a rise out of people. It's the ones who take it seriously that you need to be afraid of, and it's hard to tell who they are any more.

I also didn't know that the founder of QAnon had died a few months ago in a freak accident. I wonder how old his mother was when she had him, because she DID NOT look old enough to have a 60-year-old son, even if she had been a teen mom.

 

[Richard]

An event as momentous as the assassination of the President of the United States is something that will be studied and talked about for decades - and rightly so. There have been thousands of books, articles, and videos made concerning the death of JFK and most of them deal with the How and Why of it all.

The Warren Commission, which was appointed by President Lyndon Johnson - along with the FBI investigated the murder with its main goal of answering those questions by naming Lee Harvey Oswald as the Lone Nut killer who did it all on his own. All of their efforts in analyzing the facts were aimed at that pre-determined end, even if it meant ignoring witnesses, bending facts, giving security classifications to evidence, destroying or losing evidence, etc.

Doubts exist on so many levels, that extreme conclusions seem inevitable. The theory that Kennedy survived the assassination is not new, but it has now become almost nonsensical.

Questions about the assassination usually take the form of challenges to the Warren Commission's foregone conclusion that it was the act of only one person. Who was subsequently silenced by a totally unrelated lone nut. But there are so many factors that could point to the possibility of more than one gunman - and hence a "conspiracy".

 

[Richard]

The late actor Richard Belzer was also an author and JFK assassination researcher. He wrote a book titled "Hit List" in which he details many of the "mystery deaths" that occurred to witnesses of the assassination.

He spoke before the National Press Club on his book. He makes some interesting comments on why he believes that Oswald was not the assassin, and why he thought there was a large scale government cover-up.

LINK:

 

[Betty P]

The late actor Richard Belzer was also an author and JFK assassination researcher. He wrote a book titled "Hit List" in which he details many of the "mystery deaths" that occurred to witnesses of the assassination.

He spoke before the National Press Club on his book. He makes some interesting comments on why he believes that Oswald was not the assassin, and why he thought there was a large scale government cover-up.

LINK:

Great talk. I had no idea that he'd written a book about the assassination. He makes a very good point that many people studying the assassination today lose sight of the fact that a man got killed that day - JFK. It was a tragic event and to those who lived through it, it was a very, very sad event.

How did I miss the (quite accurate) news that Oswald was paid by the CIA? No wonder Bobby Kennedy suspected they were involved in his brother's assassination. His suspicion, IIRC, wasn't as much that the CIA deliberately killed his brother, but that some part of their operations and players had gone awry.

Why do we still have a CIA? I'm just really shocked this old rumor turned out to be true.

 

[Richard]

Penn Jones, Jr. (1914 - 1998)

Penn Jones, Jr. was an early critic of the Warren Commission's conclusion that Oswald was the lone gunman and that there was no conspiracy to murder the President.

Among a number of questions and doubts that he was first to bring out, was a list of around 150 persons connected in some way to the Kennedy assassination who reportedly died early in suspicious or violent ways.

His "list" has been discussed, debated and sometimes repeated in full by other conspiracy theorists and authors.

LINKS:

Penn Jones Jr. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

William Penn Jones Jr.

In 1946 Jones purchased the local newspaper, Midlothian Mirror (circulation - 810) for $4,000. Jones campaigned for increased spending on black schools. His liberal opinions caused controversy and his attacks on the John Birch Society resulted in his office being firebombed. In 1963 Jones became...

spartacus-educational.com

Disappearing Witnesses (1983) : Penn Jones, Jr. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

CitationJones, Penn (Jr). “Disappearing Witnesses.” Rebel, vol. 1, no. 1 (Nov. 22, 1983).

archive.org

 

[Richard]

Did a Nash Rambler Station Wagon play a part in the assassination of President Kennedy? Several witnesses reported a man leaving the area of the Texas School Book Depository Building within 10 to 15 minutes after the shooting.

Roger Craig (1951 Army photo)​

Dallas Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig stated that he saw a man whom he later identified as Lee Harvey Oswald (who had been arrested for shooting a Dallas Police officer) entering a light colored Nash Rambler station wagon about 15 minutes after the assassination of JFK. His testimony was largely ignored by the Warren Commission.

LINKS:

showDoc.html

www.maryferrell.org

1960 Rambler American - conceptcarz.com

The six-cylinder engine found in the Rambler American developed 90 horsepower from its 195.6 cubic inches. The rooftop luggage rack was standard on all stat...

www.conceptcarz.com

JFK ASSASSINATION: The Mystery of Roger Craig

garyrevel.com

 

[Betty P]

Did a Nash Rambler Station Wagon play a part in the assassination of President Kennedy? Several witnesses reported a man leaving the area of the Texas School Book Depository Building within 10 to 15 minutes after the shooting.

Roger Craig (1951 Army photo)​

Dallas Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig stated that he saw a man whom he later identified as Lee Harvey Oswald (who had been arrested for shooting a Dallas Police officer) entering a light colored Nash Rambler station wagon about 15 minutes after the assassination of JFK. His testimony was largely ignored by the Warren Commission.

LINKS:

showDoc.html

www.maryferrell.org

1960 Rambler American - conceptcarz.com

The six-cylinder engine found in the Rambler American developed 90 horsepower from its 195.6 cubic inches. The rooftop luggage rack was standard on all stat...

www.conceptcarz.com

JFK ASSASSINATION: The Mystery of Roger Craig

garyrevel.com

This has probably been asked and answered, but if Oswald had escaped the school book depository with a man driving the Rambler, how or why did he end up back at the theater, shooting Officer Tippet? Why would he leave the area, then come back? TIA

Richard Carr's account is interesting, too. He saw a stocky man in a sports coat inside the 6th fl of the TSBD before the shooting. When he went down to street level after the shooting, he saw the man again, getting into a Rambler.

Are there any photos of Craig with Oswald, as he's being questioned at the Dallas PD? I recall so many photos and video of Oswald inside the police station after his arrest. The police gave the news media a lot of access to him. It'skind of surprising now that they would do that. I tend to believe Craig. A police officer wouldn't give so much detailed information shortly after that event unless he witnessed it. To have other witnesses corroborate it, also shortly afterwards is relevant.

Here's a link to an article about Univ. North Texas - Dallas who bought the old Dallas City Hall where Oswald was first detained. They have an exhibit there, including Oswald's jail cell along with some of the photos and video from that day.

https://www.untdallas.edu/news/jfk-exhibit-dmn.php

No security around Oswald then or later when he was shot during his transfer to county jail. I guess some of them were naive about the risk.

If Craig did talk to Oswald and Oswald said something about who owned the Rambler, etc., might some of those old news media photos and video show Craig there. It sounds like some officials claimed Craig never talked to Oswald. JMO, an experienced deputy like Craig wouldn't have had time or motive to come up with so much fabrication when relating what he saw and heard in the minutes and hours after the assassination.

 

[Richard]

This has probably been asked and answered, but if Oswald had escaped the school book depository with a man driving the Rambler, how or why did he end up back at the theater, shooting Officer Tippet? Why would he leave the area, then come back? TIA

Richard Carr's account is interesting, too. He saw a stocky man in a sports coat inside the 6th fl of the TSBD before the shooting. When he went down to street level after the shooting, he saw the man again, getting into a Rambler.

Are there any photos of Craig with Oswald, as he's being questioned at the Dallas PD? I recall so many photos and video of Oswald inside the police station after his arrest. The police gave the news media a lot of access to him. It'skind of surprising now that they would do that. I tend to believe Craig. A police officer wouldn't give so much detailed information shortly after that event unless he witnessed it. To have other witnesses corroborate it, also shortly afterwards is relevant.

Here's a link to an article about Univ. North Texas - Dallas who bought the old Dallas City Hall where Oswald was first detained. They have an exhibit there, including Oswald's jail cell along with some of the photos and video from that day.

https://www.untdallas.edu/news/jfk-exhibit-dmn.php

No security around Oswald then or later when he was shot during his transfer to county jail. I guess some of them were naive about the risk.

If Craig did talk to Oswald and Oswald said something about who owned the Rambler, etc., might some of those old news media photos and video show Craig there. It sounds like some officials claimed Craig never talked to Oswald. JMO, an experienced deputy like Craig wouldn't have had time or motive to come up with so much fabrication when relating what he saw and heard in the minutes and hours after the assassination.

Roger Craig was very definitely at the site of the assassination and involved in the investigation. Many photos of the scene show him outside and inside the Texas School Book Depository building.

At least three other witnesses mention the light color (green?) Rambler Station Wagon and it appears in at least one photo. Whether or not it was Oswald who ran from the TSBD and entered the car is the question.

The Warren Commission determined that Oswald walked away from the TSBD building within about 3 minutes of the shooting, headed East for several blocks and then entered a bus headed west (back in the direction of the TSBD. The bus became blocked in traffic and Oswald left the bus, but first got a transfer slip from the driver. He then walked to a Taxi Cab stand where he first offered a cab to someone else, before entering a second one driven by a man named Whaley.

The official investigation states that Oswald had the cab driver take him past his rooming house a few blocks and that he then walked back to it. He reportedly put on a jacket and pocketed a .38 revolver before he was encountered by Officer J. D. Tippit who called him over to his squad car. Oswald allegedly shot and killed Officer Tippit and then ran to the Texas Theater where he was captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department.

When Roger Craig heard that a suspect had been captured, he wondered if it was the same man he saw enter the Rambler Station Wagon. He claimed that he was invited to view Oswald and thought that it was the same man. There is a photo of officers standing outside the office of Captain Will Fritz which some say included Craig. Oswald is NOT in that picture, and some researchers do not think that Craig was the person in the photo.

Craig was involved in the search for evidence on the 6th floor of the TSBD building and was present when the rifle and three shells were found.

Craig was a key witness of Jim Garrison's investigation later in New Orleans. His 14 year-old son was (for a short while) a missing person. Craig claimed to have been shot at and was later found dead of a gunshot wound in his home.

Here is a link to more information on him.

LINK:

Roger Craig, Deputy Sheriff

Roger Craig was a Dallas deputy sheriff on November 22, 1963 who heard the shots that killed the president. His policeman instincts immediately went in high gears. He tried the best he could to ide…

jfkassassinationfiles.wordpress.com

 

[Richard]

This November 22 will mark the 60 year anniversary of the assassination of JFK.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think a lot of them are like Flat Earthers, in that most of them don't believe any of it and think it's a big joke, and say they believe it just to get a rise out of people. It's the ones who take it seriously that you need to be afraid of, and it's hard to tell who they are any more.

I also didn't know that the founder of QAnon had died a few months ago in a freak accident. I wonder how old his mother was when she had him, because she DID NOT look old enough to have a 60-year-old son, even if she had been a teen mom.

There are a lot of extremely strange people in the world, quite frankly. The JFK assassination seems to attract some of the most extreme and loopy. As you say, there are a lot of people who think it's all just a big joke - or who are only interested in making money from it - and also the types who believe their own delusions.

There are another type, though, who occupy another strange area of human thinking. I've come across one group, headed by some Canadian chap, if I recall correctly, who are quite open about the fact that they don't care about any evidence anyone cares to supply and dismiss out of hand anything which doesn't fit their narrative.They literally don't care about the facts and have basically said "....whatever we decide to invent is what happened...". One of their bones of contention is about the Carcano rifle having a .268" diametre bore and the recovered bullets being .264". Their claim, wrongly, is that that difference would render the rifle completely useless and inaccurate at anything more than a few feet. They absolutely refuse to budge from that position even though it's been proved over and over again that they are totally and utterly wrong.

You are right in that they are sort of like the Flat Earthers in that it's absolutely, categorical that the earth is not flat and is easily provable but they simply won't have it. It puzzles me as to whether they actually believe it or are simply arguing for the sake of it. I think some of them actually do believe it, unfortunately.

There are some deeply worrying people around. I think there probably always have been but the internet gives them a much bigger audience.

 

[Marantz4250b]

An event as momentous as the assassination of the President of the United States is something that will be studied and talked about for decades - and rightly so. There have been thousands of books, articles, and videos made concerning the death of JFK and most of them deal with the How and Why of it all.

The Warren Commission, which was appointed by President Lyndon Johnson - along with the FBI investigated the murder with its main goal of answering those questions by naming Lee Harvey Oswald as the Lone Nut killer who did it all on his own. All of their efforts in analyzing the facts were aimed at that pre-determined end, even if it meant ignoring witnesses, bending facts, giving security classifications to evidence, destroying or losing evidence, etc.

Doubts exist on so many levels, that extreme conclusions seem inevitable. The theory that Kennedy survived the assassination is not new, but it has now become almost nonsensical.

Questions about the assassination usually take the form of challenges to the Warren Commission's foregone conclusion that it was the act of only one person. Who was subsequently silenced by a totally unrelated lone nut. But there are so many factors that could point to the possibility of more than one gunman - and hence a "conspiracy".

I tend to agree, tbh. That doesn't mean I don't think that LHO did it. He did. Clearly.

So, yes, I'd be prepared to accept that the Warren Commission did end up arriving at its own pre-conceived conclusion but not because they, or the government, were looking for someone to pin it on. Because he did it and it was obvious from the outset he did it. I don't think that they is any particular revelation, tbh.

Now, perhaps there was indeed a wider conspiracy; perhaps there were lots of people wanting Kennedy dead; perhaps LHO was involved with it; perhaps he was used as the "useful idiot" being used by persons unknown; perhaps there was another gunman who may or may not have discharged his weapon? Lee Oswald was the person who shot JFK, though, and that is pretty much undeniable from any rational assessment of the available evidence.

I'd never heard any theories about Kennedy surviving. That just seems like a whole other degree of crazy.....or more likely another potential to profit!

 

[Richard]

Here is an interesting video presentation about the Assassination from the perspective of various employees at the Dallas School Book Depository Building and of other eyewitnesses.

LINK:

 

[Richard]

Lee Harvey Oswald arrest photo 22 November 1963

LINK:

https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/john-f-kennedy-assassination-fast-facts/index.html

 

[Richard]

60 Years ago...

A Dallas policeman holds up the rifle said to have been used to kill President John F. Kennedy on 22 November 1963.

LINK:

Who Really Killed JFK? After 60 Years and New Clues, the Truth Looks Different

Who killed John F. Kennedy? 60 years after the President's assassination on November 22, 1963, a botched investigation clouds our conclusions about the crime.

www.aol.com