GUILTY TX - Riley 'Baby Grace' Sawyers, 2, brutally murdered, Spring, 24 July 2007

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From the link Texana posted:

"Stickler said Kimberly Zeigler is in a "zombie-like" state. "

I - don't - care!!!!:furious: I still say she is a manipulative, lying, b!tch.
 
Exactly! Who gives a rat's arse what kind of state she is in? I hope she suffers with the most gut wrenching guilt for the rest of her sorry life.



Reannan said:
From the link Texana posted:

"Stickler said Kimberly Zeigler is in a "zombie-like" state. "

I - don't - care!!!!:furious: I still say she is a manipulative, lying, b!tch.
Click to expand...
 
Reannan said:
From the link Texana posted:

"Stickler said Kimberly Zeigler is in a "zombie-like" state. "

I - don't - care!!!!:furious: I still say she is a manipulative, lying, b!tch.
Click to expand...

Agreed!!! No argument from me. I don't care if he told her not to call the ambulance because they would go to jail. She should have told him to leave then and she would call the ambulance and go to jail. When I was 4 1/2 my bio father came back into the picture. He spanked me with a belt one night because I wouldn't stop crying for my mom. That was the last time I saw him until I was 16. My mom made sure of that. She wanted a family but she would not stand for something like that happening to her child.
 
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou071128_tnt_rileysmomtalks.4a77c2df.html


I don't know if this story has been posted, but the last part I wanted to make sure we saw.

"A female inmate checking out of the Galveston County Jail Wednesday night confirmed Trenor is in the maternity section of the women’s facility.
She also added – that she 'ain’t very well liked by the other ladies – especially the other pregnant moms.' ”
 
Reannan said:
From the link Texana posted:

"Stickler said Kimberly Zeigler is in a "zombie-like" state. "

I - don't - care!!!!:furious: I still say she is a manipulative, lying, b!tch.
Click to expand...

She certainly wasn't in a zombie-like state when her daughter needed her to intervene, when picking up supplies at Walmart, and certainly not while her daughter was tossed aside in the garage for months!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead:
 
kk's mom said:
I should probably rephrase what I said. I think when childen use "yes ma'am", "no sir", etc., when being respectful to parents, others, then that is a child taught well. My daugther says "yes please", "no thank you", etc. She holds the door open for others, say's thank you when someone holds a door open for her, etc.

But to instill fear in a child when disciplining, yelling, etc. and forcing them to answer, "yes ma'am", "yes sir", etc., then that is when I have a problem with it. I can hear my neighbor screaming at her son, telling him how sick she is of him, how screwed up he is, etc. and then yelling at him "do you understand me???" . When he says just "yes", and then you can hear her screaming at him again "you answer me yes ma'am", then that's when I have a problem with it.
I hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from and understand what you mean. My daughter, almost 5, doesn't always answer yes ma'am, yes sir, etc. But when we talk to her in a serious manner or she is in trouble and we have our talk with her, she knows to answer yes sir, yes ma'am, etc. That, to me, shows she has understood what she was told and is also respectful. Now, in asking for something she says please, thank you, all of the above. I taught her from the day she started talking to say these things, and it comes naturally to her now. And if she is having her talking to and answers 'yes' or 'no', I just simply tell her "excuse me" and she corrects it. There is no way that I will slap my child or get physically abusive with her for not saying it. Her mind goes 90 to nothing and it's just something that needs to be brought to her attention.
In Riley's case, she probably could barely talk, let alone learn the whole ma'am and sir bit. That is too you, IMO, to force her and traumitize her for not saying. :snooty:
 
imthemom said:
I think we got the idea. My children always say please and thank you and your welcome and my daughter who is 3 will say God Bless you to herself if no one says it to her right away when she sneezes. But these are learned from us as parents saying them nicely to our children. Giving them a drink and saying thank you mommy. Like I said before to teach respect you have to give respect not beat them and break their spirit.
Click to expand...

AMEN!!!! Well said....:clap:
 
Texana said:
Does anybody have a link for the fact that Zeigler is/was LDS? In the article from the Chronicle today, the attorney for Zeigler spoke of him as being an "altar boy." I have a couple of questions about this:

1) I have never seen or heard of the LDS/Mormon churches having altar boys. I know that the LDS church does not have regular, dedicated priests/pastors per se--the members of the church alternate in that role. You do not go to seminary to become a priest in the LDS church as you would in the Catholic church. Altar boys (and girls), while prevalent in the liturgical Christian denominations such as the Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, and Catholic churches, are not something I have ever heard of being the norm in the LDS church. The usual ward/church meeting on Sundays does not seem to follow that pattern in any way. There may be a role in the temple ceremonies that could be analogous to the liturgical Christian churches, but it temple ceremonies are not for every LDS member--only those who meet certain requirements.

2) If it is true that Zeigler is/was an LDS member, then the use of the word "altar boy" was disingenuous at best and deliberately deceitful at worst, to make the average religious person feel that he had always been a "good boy." Maybe he was. I think that whatever role or requirements he fulfilled in the LDS church should be presented by those terms as such and not labeled in the language of another faith. Some of the temple ceremonies are secretive, but if the LDS church does not consider it appropriate to say those things publicly, then all Zeigler's attorney had to do was say, "He was a devoted/enthusiastic/devout (pick your word here) member of his family's church.

The LDS church does seem to use altars in their temple ceremonies, but the ceremonies are not the same as the ones most people think of when the word "altar boy" is used. So I think that using that term is just another attempt by the attorney to paint Zeigler as the "boy next door."

This is right up there with calling him "a big teddy bear" when if he beat a two year old with a belt, held her head under water, and then threw/hit her against a tile floor, he is clearly not a "teddy bear."
Click to expand...

The LDS association is mine, simply because he was a pallbearer for his paternal uncle's funeral which took place in an offshoot of an LDS church in Texas. I will get the link posted again...in my experience LDS is a church that has very strong family associations, in that if Royce Senior and his brother were members it is disingenuous to believe that the children would not also be affiliated with the church. I also believe that the attorney's statements regarding "altar boy" were simply an attempt to make Royce sympathetic in laymen's terms. Let's face it-there is a whole lot of mysticism associated with the Mormon faith, so it may not be considered a sympathetic association across the nation for the average "Joe." Look at public opinion poles regarding Mitt Romney-people have no clue what his faith is all about and view it with suspicion.

There is no proof that they belong-again the assumption is mine.
 
Sorry for the double post-here is the link to the obit I found from 1999:

http://www.ashleycountyledger.com/obits/1999/1999index.txt

Royce II is listed as a pallbearer for his uncle Zeigler's funeral...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mr. Bennie Lamar Zeigler[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mr. Bennie Lamar Zeigler, 59, of Crossett died Friday, October 1, 1999, at the Baptist Medical Center in Little Rock. Born August 1, 1940, in Crossett to Alton Parker and Elaine Haviland Fuller Zeigler, he was employed at Georgia-Pacific, was an avid hunter, enjoyed horse racing and was a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Survivors are three sons, Ricky Lamar Zeigler of Carrolton, TX, Perry Wayne Zeigler and Gary Layne Zeigler of West Monroe, LA; and two brothers, Ronnie Zeigler of Ashdown and Royce Zeigler of Spring, TX. Funeral services were at 10 a.m. Monday, October 4, in the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints with Robert Freeman and James Dean officiating. Pallbearers were Otis, Todd, Terry, Steven, Hiram, Donnie and Royce Zeigler, II, and Ronnie Mills. Stacy Zeigler was an honorary pallbearer. Burial followed services at Pinewood Memorial Park, directed by Jones Funeral Home of Crosse[/FONT]
 
I'm actually surprised that no one from Zeigler's family has spoken out about him yet. If they have I've missed it. Also what about co-workers, friends, and old classmates? I'm anxious to see what they have to say and if he had a violent past. Sorry, not taking his lawyer's word for it.
 
6:AM today, watched interview on cnn with grandmother. She was asked if Kimberly showed any signs of abusive behavior with Riley while living with her, Grandmother response was "No", Kimberly was loving with Riley. She also stated that Kim was only 16, and babies don't come with instructions, but she had been there to help. She stated Kimberly was quiet person, not one to show her emotions. Grandmother was also asked if she and bio-father would testify at trial, said she didn't know, but they would be there. I think Kimberly had everyone fooled, I don't believe for one second that this behavior just happened over night. I hope her and Zeigler rot in hell.
 
Hi paddy, welcome to WS!

I think you're right that Kimberly had people fooled. This type of behavior doesn't happen overnight.

If she was such a loving mother, why didn't she get the hell out of there with her child if she felt intimidated by this man. I'm not buying her poor me act at all. :furious: In her own words she confesses to participating in this barbaric act against Riley. Like I said before, she does't deserve the title of Mother. :furious: She's nothing but a baby killer. :furious:
 
Baby Grace's Family Grieves" CBS "The Early Show"
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_v...l=/sections/earlyshow/videoplayer500202.shtml

so sad that the family did not even know the baby had been through what she had been through before this morning, Charles Gibson questioned them on it and their attorney said "they didn't even know about it until you brought it up"......

My heart is breaking again for this family!!!
 
Thanks for the link Reannan. That picture breaks my heart too. Look at the way Riley is looking up at Kimberly, the person that was supposed to love and protect her above all.

It makes me physically ill to think of what was going through Riley's mind during this torture. She was wondering why her mommy wasn't helping her, but instead was hurting her.
 
Can someone please answer a few questions I have. I looked at the link that MsPooh provided but I don't have speakers on my work computer. Here is what I don't understand and maybe this was already answered somewhere, but during the time Riley was, geez, how do I say this without getting my blood boiling again, but when she was in the box being stored, wouldn't her dad wonder why he hasn't seen her? did they share joint custody? hope this makes sense?
 
PaperDoll said:
Can someone please answer a few questions I have. I looked at the link that MsPooh provided but I don't have speakers on my work computer. Here is what I don't understand and maybe this was already answered somewhere, but during the time Riley was, geez, how do I say this without getting my blood boiling again, but when she was in the box being stored, wouldn't her dad wonder why he hasn't seen her? did they share joint custody? hope this makes sense?
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that the father and grandmother became concerned when they hadn't heard from Kimberly after moving to Texas. Grandmother stated that several times registered letters were sent and were returned. They even phoned, I believe grandmother or father spoke to Zeigler at one point. I don't know whether I read this or heard it somewhere.
 
Paperdoll, Riley's father was on Ohio where Riley spent her entire life except for the last two miserable months of it. Kim and Riley moved to Texas to be with that Royce in June, and she was murdered in July. Riley's biological father and his mother were working through the court system back in Ohio for visitation rights. In fact, I am not sure they even knew that Riley was in Texas, did they? Does anyone else have the timeline clarified?
 
I saw a timeline in one of the linked articles. I'll try to find it. I can't remember when they found out that Kim was in Texas, but I do remember that it was through their lawyer.
 
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