GUILTY TX - Riley 'Baby Grace' Sawyers, 2, brutally murdered, Spring, 24 July 2007

[imthemom]

What I understood in the beginning of this case is that Kim and Riley still lived with Robert's mom, but they weren't a couple anymore. Not sure if he still lived there too or not, but I'm pretty sure I remember they broke up after they had Riley, but she and the baby remained living with his mom.

Maybe someone else remembers this too and even has a link.... lol.

Thanks JanetElaine, I was a little confused on that. I know it doesn't really matter but I thought they were together up until this year.

 

[imthemom]

I should probably rephrase what I said. I think when childen use "yes ma'am", "no sir", etc., when being respectful to parents, others, then that is a child taught well. My daugther says "yes please", "no thank you", etc. She holds the door open for others, say's thank you when someone holds a door open for her, etc.

But to instill fear in a child when disciplining, yelling, etc. and forcing them to answer, "yes ma'am", "yes sir", etc., then that is when I have a problem with it. I can hear my neighbor screaming at her son, telling him how sick she is of him, how screwed up he is, etc. and then yelling at him "do you understand me???" . When he says just "yes", and then you can hear her screaming at him again "you answer me yes ma'am", then that's when I have a problem with it.
I hope that makes sense.

I think we got the idea. My children always say please and thank you and your welcome and my daughter who is 3 will say God Bless you to herself if no one says it to her right away when she sneezes. But these are learned from us as parents saying them nicely to our children. Giving them a drink and saying thank you mommy. Like I said before to teach respect you have to give respect not beat them and break their spirit.

 

[colomom]

My first time on W/S. This is a terrible tragedy, reminds me of my Mother & stepfather. My sisters & I could not understand why our Mom could just stand by & let this man abuse us. I am 58 yrs. & still don't understand. I hope & pray that they both get a death sentence.

If not understanding paddy01, I hope you find peace.

 

[NewMom2003]

I think we got the idea. My children always say please and thank you and your welcome and my daughter who is 3 will say God Bless you to herself if no one says it to her right away when she sneezes. But these are learned from us as parents saying them nicely to our children. Giving them a drink and saying thank you mommy. Like I said before to teach respect you have to give respect not beat them and break their spirit.

Exactly! :clap:

My daughter is 4 and has excellent manners. She is just now getting to the point where she remembers to say yes ma'am, no ma'am on her own. This is something she has learned and it's never been forced on her. It's just simple manners.

But to expect a 2 year old baby to address you as yes sir/yes ma'am is beyond ridiculous. At age two children are learning to express themselves with words.

It haunts me to think of what was going through little Riley's mind while all this torture was taking place. She was probably just acting like any 2 year old would and then she was horrifically abused. Probably wondering why her mommy wasn't saving her. She didn't understand any of it.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

Nah I don't think you need to rephrase what you said..I understood it perfectly! I don't expect any child to say yes ma'am to me & usually if they do I tell them awww you don't have to answer me like that I am not God. As long as kids are respectful and kind that is all I ask for. People really need to back off a little bit these are children!! They are supposed to act goofy, act out, play around, run around, be hyper come on let kids be kids!! What exactly did beautiful little Riley do so wrong? At 2 years old how much did she even understand of the demands this animal was putting on her? I bet not a one of them! I don't understand how the mother failed to protect her child. I don't care how scared I was of him I could never be so scared that I could not protect my child. He would of had to kill me that is the only way I would not of been able to protect her.

I should probably rephrase what I said. I think when childen use "yes ma'am", "no sir", etc., when being respectful to parents, others, then that is a child taught well. My daugther says "yes please", "no thank you", etc. She holds the door open for others, say's thank you when someone holds a door open for her, etc.

But to instill fear in a child when disciplining, yelling, etc. and forcing them to answer, "yes ma'am", "yes sir", etc., then that is when I have a problem with it. I can hear my neighbor screaming at her son, telling him how sick she is of him, how screwed up he is, etc. and then yelling at him "do you understand me???" . When he says just "yes", and then you can hear her screaming at him again "you answer me yes ma'am", then that's when I have a problem with it.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[Reannan]

My first time on W/S. This is a terrible tragedy, reminds me of my Mother & stepfather. My sisters & I could not understand why our Mom could just stand by & let this man abuse us. I am 58 yrs. & still don't understand. I hope & pray that they both get a death sentence.

Paddy01, we are glad you are here! :blowkiss: This isn't always an easy place to be. There are far too many cases like this one. I was looking in the mirror just the other day, and thought to myself - "My, where are those lines around your eyes coming from?" :waitasec: Sometimes, I think this stuff is causing me to grow old faster. It feels like a weight on your shoulders, and I have to take little breaks now and then. I would feel even more horrible if I walked away and never looked back. It just seems that there needs to be someone who cares. Even if that care is metered out from hundreds or thousands of miles away, it is better than nothing. I have cried myself to sleep on more nights than I care to count over children I have never met....and unfortunately never will - in this life. I pray for other children that may be experiencing abuse and terror - we know they are out there. I keep following cases that have not been blessed with justice yet - like Tori and Dean's. I contact LE (law enforcement) when appropriate, I look over missing person sites when a body is discovered. I do what I can.....which is really all any of us can do - we try.

P.S. kk's Mom - I knew what you meant! I always love your postings. :blowkiss:

 

[Texana]

I was so angry when I read that comment from Zeigler's attorney, "big teddy bear." I was running late for work but I had to post the link anyway because it was so infuriating. A teddy bear is a soft, cuddly child's toy and a safe thing for a child to be near. He was none of those things (and neither was she.)

Even if he can justify somehow in his mind what he did, he can't justify what he did afterward. He was afraid because he knew what he did was wrong and could never be justified. She went along because she knew as well that what they did was indefensible.

How on earth did they plan to keep Riley forever from her bio father? With that lame affidavit story? I guess they went with the "no body, no crime" line of thought.

I was almost as upset at the "big teddy bear" line as I was at the description of what went on before Riley's death.

 

[PaperDoll]

My first time on W/S. This is a terrible tragedy, reminds me of my Mother & stepfather. My sisters & I could not understand why our Mom could just stand by & let this man abuse us. I am 58 yrs. & still don't understand. I hope & pray that they both get a death sentence.

Welcome padd01 :blowkiss: Make yourself at home here.. The Jury Room is a fun place to be.. IMO..

 

[MCDRAW]

People in the south teach their children to say yes mam and no mam. Not by abuse. I have always just repeated what they are suppose to say. Never hit them for not doing it. But at the age of two, I was just glad they were saying yes or no.

 

[believe09]

Welcome Paddy01-I am glad to read that you are 58 years young in spite of the abuse you suffered, and very sorry you suffered at all. Your mom was an aberration, as is the mother in this case-most of us would have been killed trying to protect you rather than allowing you to be hurt. peace to you!

 

[MCDRAW]

I wonder if there were ever any signs of abuse before she married Zeigler. I think if not, that should make her story a little more credible. Not that she wasn't in the wrong. I just wonder about a man that would beat a child for yes mam and no mam, what would he do to a woman that didn't do what he told her to do. I'm not taking up for the mom. She just looks so young and innocent or naive. I do know looks can be so deceiving. I'm just wondering if she didn't find herself in a situation that she didn't know how to handle. I haven't heard much about her family. Only the father's family. She didn't have a job so she probably didn't think she had a way out. Now if she abused Riley before she was married to Zeigler, that tells a whole different story. It looks like I may be the only one that thinks she may have been a victim too. Only because I read where he stayed home from work to make sure that she followed through with what he told her to do. His disciplinary plan. Of course, that may have just been her story. This is just my opinion. Please do not be mean. I certainly do not think she doesn't deserve to be punished!

 

[paddy01]

Thank you Colomom, Reannan, Paperdoll and believe09, I appreciate your kind words. Riley has brought back a flood of memories for me. I don't know who to hate more her Mother or that stepfather. I have two daughters, while they were growing up I never told them about the abuse
that my sisters and I suffered. It wasn't until my mother became ill and came to live with us (because my sisters refused to take her in) that eventually led to them finding out. They were appalled that I had been subjected to unthinkable acts of violence. It was then that they realized why I was so overprotective of them. I have two beautiful grandchildren, one by each daughter. If I thought for one minute that either one was being abused, as much as I love my daughters I would contact the authorities or worse yet, take matters into my own hands. I can't imagine what Rileys grandmother must be going through. Thanks for letting me go on & on.

 

[Indigo]

I wonder if there were ever any signs of abuse before she married Zeigler. I think if not, that should make her story a little more credible. Not that she wasn't in the wrong. I just wonder about a man that would beat a child for yes mam and no mam, what would he do to a woman that didn't do what he told her to do. I'm not taking up for the mom. She just looks so young and innocent or naive. I do know looks can be so deceiving. I'm just wondering if she didn't find herself in a situation that she didn't know how to handle. I haven't heard much about her family. Only the father's family. She didn't have a job so she probably didn't think she had a way out. Now if she abused Riley before she was married to Zeigler, that tells a whole different story. It looks like I may be the only one that thinks she may have been a victim too. Only because I read where he stayed home from work to make sure that she followed through with what he told her to do. His disciplinary plan. Of course, that may have just been her story. This is just my opinion. Please do not be mean. I certainly do not think she doesn't deserve to be punished!

I think it might have been a different story if Kim had ended up beaten along with Riley, but instead she participated in the torture and beating of her own baby. Kim admits that she was intimidated by Royce, but that he had never harmed her physically.

I can't help contrasting this with a true story I saw once on one of the investigative programs. The story was about a man who had set his house on fire to claim the insurance money. Part of his family, including some of his children were killed in the process. The youngest child, who is now an adult ,recalled how she survived the fire. Her sister, who was all of ten or twelve, realized that there was no way out of the fire--so she wrapped her own little body around that of her baby sister and promised "I'll never leave you."

She kept her promise. Her little sister was kept safe from the flames while she allowed herself to be destroyed by them. That is what love does. That is what a mother should be willing to do.

 

[MCDRAW]

I believe that is what a parent should do! But there are tons of stories to prove that isn't always what they do.

 

[Texana]

I think she just fell in love with Zeigler, they had similar interests with their online gaming, etc.

Kimberly had a way out. All she had to do was pick up the phond and call Riley's grandmother, who would have facilitated in a heartbeat getting the two of them back to Ohio. For heaven's sake, she's been facilitating their lives for the past three or so years--she would have said or done anything to get Riley safely back in Ohio. And I think she genuinely cared about Kimberly as well.

No, as much as we would like to think perhaps that Riley's mother could not allow this to happen to her child, the sad thing is, she not only allowed it to happen, she participated willingly.

 

[believe09]

You guys are so kind-the way I read Kimberly is that she was indulged from day one-I am curious as to how I might close or way off base, you understand.

I think that she was indulged throughout her pregnancy, that Riley was like a dress up doll to her-that the older Sawyers and Treynors did the bulk of the care giving for Riley. She got bored, was swept off her feet over the internet and ran away with Riley to an exciting new life-you see she couldn't fathom turning Riley over to Robert after having forced him out and after having been in control of when he was allowed to see Riley. A power trip if you will? When she arrived in TX, it was NOT glamorous and romantic-she moved in with a strict, god-fearing spare the rod-spoil the child LDS dude who had expectations about how his young wife would behave to him and that he would come first. Rather than calling home and admitting failure (and facing charges for interfering with a visitation order), the invertebate that she is allowed her to mold herself to Zeigler's plan and sacrifice her firstborn. :twocents:

 

[JanetElaine]

Here's some info about the memorial service for Riley on December 2nd:
http://www.19actionnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=7421873

In addition, Riley will be remembered at Brunner Funeral Homes Annual Tree of Remembrance Service this Sunday Dec 2, at 1:00p.m. on the lawn at 8466 Mentor Ave., Mentor,OH..

 

[Reannan]

Interesting comments and viewpoints about Kim. Don't worry McDraw! Your comments are just as valid and welcome as anyone elses! I don't see your viewpoint as necessarily being sympathetic. One has to consider the possiblility of Kim having been a victim of abuse by Royce. One of the biggest sticking points I have for Kim is the fact that after she became pregnant AT 16 YEARS OLD, she went to live with her boyfriend and his mother. For me, this raises all sorts of red flags about what kind of life Kim had in her own home. If my 16 year old daughter were pregnant, I would want her home with ME. Now we have Kim's family on the news saying how much they cared for her.....well, I am not impressed with the level of care they had shown in the past. I am certainly not saying any of this is an excuse for her actions......there simply is NO excuse for what happened to Riley. I do think Kim was someone with very little self esteem. She had what appears to have been a good support system with Riley's grandmother in Ohio, but her former boyfriend - Riley's father - had already gotten someone else pregnant while Kim and Riley were living in the same home as him. That had to be awkward. Kim's first mistake was to become addicted to a fantasy world (Warcraft)....and a fantasy relationship (Royce) that evolved on the internet. This provided her with an escape route to leave what appears to have been the only source of stability in her life - Riley's grandmother. Tragically, it only took two months for complete devastating disaster and evil to shroud her life.....and to take Riley's. I think Kim's lack of self-esteem, coupled with being in a strange environment and suddenly involved in a relationship that rapidly became a nightmare overwhelmed her. If she had an ounce of goodness in her, she would have taken Riley at the first signs of trouble and headed back to Ohio. She did not do this, and I cannot forgive her for it. All of her problems in life were really miniscule compared to the problems that many people face - up until that horrible day of July 24, 2007. I have a prediction to make about Kim. She is going to say at some point in the future that her current pregnancy is a result of rape by Royce. The other thing I see in Kim is a manipulative personality. She took Riley away to punish her father for his new child. She will now use the only current weapon she has - her pregnancy - against the person she now hates - Royce. This will also provide her leverage for sympathy in the public's eye. I doubt most of the people here at WS's are going to be swayed by her claims. When I look at the pictures of Riley, I see a child that would have been everything her mother will never be. The whole thing is a damned shame.

 

[Texana]

Does anybody have a link for the fact that Zeigler is/was LDS? In the article from the Chronicle today, the attorney for Zeigler spoke of him as being an "altar boy." I have a couple of questions about this:

1) I have never seen or heard of the LDS/Mormon churches having altar boys. I know that the LDS church does not have regular, dedicated priests/pastors per se--the members of the church alternate in that role. You do not go to seminary to become a priest in the LDS church as you would in the Catholic church. Altar boys (and girls), while prevalent in the liturgical Christian denominations such as the Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, and Catholic churches, are not something I have ever heard of being the norm in the LDS church. The usual ward/church meeting on Sundays does not seem to follow that pattern in any way. There may be a role in the temple ceremonies that could be analogous to the liturgical Christian churches, but it temple ceremonies are not for every LDS member--only those who meet certain requirements.

2) If it is true that Zeigler is/was an LDS member, then the use of the word "altar boy" was disingenuous at best and deliberately deceitful at worst, to make the average religious person feel that he had always been a "good boy." Maybe he was. I think that whatever role or requirements he fulfilled in the LDS church should be presented by those terms as such and not labeled in the language of another faith. Some of the temple ceremonies are secretive, but if the LDS church does not consider it appropriate to say those things publicly, then all Zeigler's attorney had to do was say, "He was a devoted/enthusiastic/devout (pick your word here) member of his family's church.

The LDS church does seem to use altars in their temple ceremonies, but the ceremonies are not the same as the ones most people think of when the word "altar boy" is used. So I think that using that term is just another attempt by the attorney to paint Zeigler as the "boy next door."

This is right up there with calling him "a big teddy bear" when if he beat a two year old with a belt, held her head under water, and then threw/hit her against a tile floor, he is clearly not a "teddy bear."

 

[Texana]

We already know most of this information, but just the same:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5334351.html