Found Deceased TX - Savanah Soto, 18, Leon Valley, 22 December 2023 #2 *Arrests*

[AppleTreeGreen]

i think it was pure CYA mode for them.

o/t april zoglauer (second link) was my grand baby's daycare teacher their mother (my sd) attended the funeral

My condolences to yours and April Zoglauer’s family. I am so sorry for her loss, she seemed liked a well-loved and well-liked individual who loved life and lived it to the family. I am glad the police have made an arrest and that her loved ones and communities will be able to get justice for her and her beloved son.

Second teen boy arrested in San Jose hit-and-run crash that killed pregnant mother, unborn child

Police in San Jose on Wednesday morning confirmed the arrest of a second teen boy last week in connection with the fatal hit-and-run crash that killed a mother and critically injured her unborn child.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Shadow@light]

3 possibilities:

1)yours above (Killed a bit b4 the ping)

2) Christopher killed them immediately when they arrived/right around time of ping. then Matthew was drug into the back seat from the front or into the backseat from the ground nearby. (We don’t know if he ever exited the vehicle)
Christopher frantically begins to drive the Kia to the apartments and calls dad on the way saying I killed Matthew and Savannah. It was a struggle and savanah is 9 months pregnant. What if the baby comes out?! Shot them both in the back of the head. They are dead. I’m serious. I need your help. Please meet me at these apartments now! Ramon and myrta jump up and get in truck. They arrive and Ramon looks to see what his son has done. They then decide where to ”hide” the car and follow each other to that spot. Christopher gets in truck and the three return home.

It’s POSSIBLE it happened that quickly. Maybe Christopher shows his true colors at home. Maybe they didn’t doubt him or ask questions when he called. Maybe they knew of things he was involved in. & maybe they knew he had some screws loose or that he had beef with Matthew. Maybe he tortured animals as a kid. Whatever the case. They didn’t doubt him.

3) the most UNLIKELY— they were all in on it from the start. Myrta and Ramon knew Christopher had a “job” to do - kill Matthew Guerra. Savannah was likely a surprise. They didn’t expect her to show up whth him, but couldn’t risk a witness. Ramon and Myrta’s job would have been to meet him to dump the car. IF the 3 of them being in on it from the start was the case, then there’s a LOT more to the story. it would have been about stealing money or debt owed or territory or vengeance or drugs stolen/owed or snitching/silencing a snitch etc…..
I do NOT think this is the case because there would have been no need to meet up with the towel then meet up AGAIN. It would have been planned out better. Everyone would have known their roles, where to go, & what to do. & these 3 obviously didn’t have a good plan. If i remember correctly Christopher flashed his lights as if telling Ramon “I’m in this car”. If they would have all been in on it. Ramon and myrta would have known what vehicle Matthew was driving.

So I’m going with scenario #2 — Christopher, alone, quickly murdered them both as soon as they arrived. BUT i think Christopher had an issue with Matthew beforehand. Someone owed someone something or someone was stealing from someone or someone was snitching on someone etc. I don’t know what the issue was, but I’m sure we’ll find out eventually. I think Christopher PLANNED to kill Matthew with with Myrta’s gun before that night due to this unknown issue. Savannah was a surprise, so he made a quick decision to eliminate her as a witness. He likely had originally planned to deal with Matthews’s body alone but freaked once faced with 3 bodies. He may have even been wondering if the baby was going to come out postmortem. I imagine panic surrounding Fabian and Savannah is what lead him to call his parents while driving. Savanah and Fabian weren’t part of the plan, and he wasn’t prepared to deal with the sight of a young full term mother dead in the front seat right next to him, nor the hiding of her body and potentially the baby’s. He HAD to have been wondering if that baby was going to come out. An average 19 year old boy wouldn’t know. His parents knew he wasn’t just making this up and jumped to their feet to meet him. I believe it all happened very quickly considering the proximity of the locations.

This is just my opinion based on what we know so far.

Also, fireworks are a huge deal in the south. Everyone starts popping a few here and there at home around Christmas. And it’s possible he had some sort of silencer.

Again, all just my opinion.

IMO looking at the timing of the Crime and call to Parents, I go for Number Three

 

[Ruthbullock]

Exactly! 911 could have guided them on saving that baby

That’s very unlikely as the only way of saving an unborn baby once the mother has passed away is by bringing it into the world to take its first breath. We also don’t know the Timelapse between the shooting and his parents arriving, but unless it was under a couple of minutes for emergency services to arrive it would always have been too late sadly. To perform an emergency section out of a hospital is immense and would take time, and paramedics wouldn’t have the specialist facilities for an emergency section north afterwards. Even if they had arrived promptly- they would have attempted to save SS first, not her unborn baby and would have needed further back up to assist.

 

[Ruthbullock]

One thought or question I have been pondering lately is how long or how soon after CP shot and killed SS and MG did he alert his parents? Did he feed them the same fraudulent lie of self-defense that he told LE?

Did either of his parents consider or argue about calling 911 in case there was a chance, however small, of saving SS’ and MG’s lives or in the small chance they were not actually deceased at the time despite GSWs to the head (not all GSWs to the head are necessarily fatal or cause instantaneous death)?

Upon realizing SS was pregnant and there being being a chance of saving baby Fabian despite his mother’s injuries or the possibility of her being deceased already? I have come across are a few stories, attached below, about posthumous births that resulted from the life-saving measures carried out by witnesses, first responder, ER doctors, trauma surgeons, neurosurgeons and obstetricians. Is it possible that baby Fabian, and MG and SS for that matter, could have had a chance, no matter how small, if 911 was called?

I think of this in light if CP did tell his parents it was self-defense wouldn’t there have been more of a motive to alert LE and emergency responders, especially in light of a heavily pregnant woman being involved?

Just my own thoughts though and could be off course/off track

Woman 8 months pregnant dies in Anaheim crash; baby survives

The victim was walking along the sidewalk with her husband when a woman driving a Jeep and suspected of DUI struck her, police said.

www.ocregister.com

Pregnant woman killed in San Jose hit-and-run; baby dies after C-section

Two suspects are being sought following a hit-and-run collision that killed a pregnant woman and her baby in south San Jose Tuesday night.

www.cbsnews.com

‘Miracle’ baby born in the rubble as her mother died beside her

On a day of death and destruction, a newborn girl fought for her life in the rubble beside her mother’s lifeless body.

www.aljazeera.com

Cranial Gunshot Wounds

Cranial gunshot wounds are among the leading causes of head injury in many U.S. cities. Read more about how UCLA Health neurosurgery treats this type of injury.

www.uclahealth.org

I wonder if he even articulated that much to his parents. I can see a situation with most parents that just says I need help and we would go- we wouldn’t want or need the finer details of what happened to recognise our child was upset and needed us there quickly. It is entirely plausible he did just calmly ring and say I have shot two people what do I do, but it is equally plausible he rang and was upset and overwhelmed and just asked his parents to come and help him without mentioning what he needed help with.

 

[Joe Friday]

It was mentioned earlier that RP and MR might have been involved with the murder of SS and MG. I don't believe they were. I don't think RP and MR are or were bad people, they just got caught up in something their son/step son did and before they knew it they too were involved criminally. The correct thing for them to do would have been call LE when CP must have came asking for help.

If CP gave RP or MR the song and dance of self defense, I can't understand why they would have participated or formulated a plan to dispose of the vehicle and bodies, instead of calling LE.

The arrest affidavit for MR saying she admitted the gun was hers and was found in her locked bedroom and to say she was the only one that has the key is a bit puzzling for me as well. If CP didn't have a key or break the door down, how did he get the gun? Maybe she didn't always lock the door, but only said she did when LE questioned her. But it sure doesn't look good on her part for CP to have shot two people with her gun which she claims was kept in a room she kept locked and only she had the key. I wonder who put the gun back?? And then to claim you may have been asleep and don't recall the events. She probally told LE that before they confronted her with the video evidence of her leaving in the truck. The she relized the jig was up and came clean.

JMO

 

[passionflower]

Just my own thoughts… I’m thinking there maybe someone else in this mix like an ambush from many that the victims never saw it coming. Photos showed lots of drugs and a Chevy emblem. MG taking orders. Well did they go to pick up the drugs with lots of money and get robbed and ambushed ? What kind of emergency would also postpone a funeral for3 days? Just curious

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

That’s very unlikely as the only way of saving an unborn baby once the mother has passed away is by bringing it into the world to take its first breath. We also don’t know the Timelapse between the shooting and his parents arriving, but unless it was under a couple of minutes for emergency services to arrive it would always have been too late sadly. To perform an emergency section out of a hospital is immense and would take time, and paramedics wouldn’t have the specialist facilities for an emergency section north afterwards. Even if they had arrived promptly- they would have attempted to save SS first, not her unborn baby and would have needed further back up to assist.

Very true.

On the bright side a few articles I read and attached below have given me hope that advancement in medicine will improve to better serve maternal and fetal health care needs. There have been very few or rare cases in the US and abroad in which the babies of pregnant women who have been brain-dead or who have suffered cardiac arrest may have a higher chance of survival with adequate and timely-received resuscitation efforts, such as CPR. Some mothers have undergone CPR for as long as 17 minutes as the NICU or attending physician arrives with EMS with the proper equipment and performs a perimortem or postmortem outside the hospital. It appears that the general rule of them is for the operations to begin and later than 10-15 minutes following the mother’s injuries or passing. Also, fetuses of late-term pregnancies have the highest chance of survival and there are risks of delayed speech and neurological development.

I am of course not saying this would have been a guaranteed outcome for SS’ and MG’s beloved baby Fabian but it was one of the thoughts that crossed my mind in terms of saving the family of three. Also, it may have been possible that SS and MG may have been considered brain dead following the shootings. As devastating as that still would be, their loved ones deserved the chance to see and say goodbye to their loved ones peacefully in the space and privacy provided by a hospital and to learn and explore whatever options would have been available to them in terms of their loved ones’ care or management.

Also, like you have correctly noted, we do not know how long after the shooting CP alerted his parents. Another sad detail I just noticed on Google maps is that the apartment complex was not far at all, particularly if traveling via EMS, from a nearby hospital with a ER unit and a women’s health ward.

Out-of-Hospital Perimortem Cesarean Section as Resuscitative Hysterotomy in Maternal Posttraumatic Cardiac Arrest

The optimal treatment of a severe hemodynamic instability from shock to cardiac arrest in late term pregnant women is subject to ongoing studies. However, there is an increasing evidence that early “separation” between the mother and the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

AL: Ensihoitolääkäri teki keisarileikkauksen elottomalle äidille keskellä jalkakäytävää - vauva selvisi

Raskaana olevan naisen aortta repesi ja ensihoitolääkäri Miretta Tommila teki elämänsä ensimmäisen sektion keskellä kaupunkia. Vauva selvisi kuin ihmeen kaupalla.

www.iltalehti.fi

Out-of-Hospital Perimortem Cesarean Section as Resuscitative Hysterotomy in Maternal Posttraumatic Cardiac Arrest

The optimal treatment of a severe hemodynamic instability from shock to cardiac arrest in late term pregnant women is subject to ongoing studies. However, there is an increasing evidence that early “separation” between the mother and the foetus may increase the restoration of the hemodynamic...

www.hindawi.com

 

[Ruthbullock]

Just my own thoughts… I’m thinking there maybe someone else in this mix like an ambush from many that the victims never saw it coming. Photos showed lots of drugs and a Chevy emblem. MG taking orders. Well did they go to pick up the drugs with lots of money and get robbed and ambushed ? What kind of emergency would also postpone a funeral for3 days? Just curious

There is a huge question mark
Over motive for this. Was it revenge, pre planned, peer pressure, trying to be the big guy or just a transaction gone wrong? The parents are also a puzzle- following the arrest of his step mum and the dad- I have to question who rules the roost in the household and did the dad just get dragged into something he normally stays out of, or is it just playing the innocent puppet? The step mum is coming across as someone who Is more in control and has her eye on the ball and perhaps knew more than we know.

 

[Joe Friday]

There is a huge question mark
Over motive for this. Was it revenge, pre planned, peer pressure, trying to be the big guy or just a transaction gone wrong? The parents are also a puzzle- following the arrest of his step mum and the dad- I have to question who rules the roost in the household and did the dad just get dragged into something he normally stays out of, or is it just playing the innocent puppet? The step mum is coming across as someone who Is more in control and has her eye on the ball and perhaps knew more than we know.

Do you think robbery was the motive behind this? I see you didn't list it as one of your possibilities. (It was mentioned in the arrest affidavit for RP)

How about, RP and MR just sprung into action when confronted by CP about what had happened and without clearly thinking of the magnitude and consequences before decided the best thing to do was make it all go away as quickly as possible and no doubt thought they would get away with it and that would be the end of the problem at hand. MR seems to be the only one that didn't initially cooperate with LE when being questioned.

JMO

 

[passionflower]

There is a huge question mark
Over motive for this. Was it revenge, pre planned, peer pressure, trying to be the big guy or just a transaction gone wrong? The parents are also a puzzle- following the arrest of his step mum and the dad- I have to question who rules the roost in the household and did the dad just get dragged into something he normally stays out of, or is it just playing the innocent puppet? The step mum is coming across as someone who Is more in control and has her eye on the ball and perhaps knew more than we know.

The mother’s bail is so high, much higher than dads. Thoughts on that? Seems she had more to do with this? Or just because it was her gun?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It was mentioned earlier that RP and MR might have been involved with the murder of SS and MG. I don't believe they were. I don't think RP and MR are or were bad people, they just got caught up in something their son/step son did and before they knew it they too were involved criminally. The correct thing for them to do would have been call LE when CP must have came asking for help.

If CP gave RP or MR the song and dance of self defense, I can't understand why they would have participated or formulated a plan to dispose of the vehicle and bodies, instead of calling LE.

The arrest affidavit for MR saying she admitted the gun was hers and was found in her locked bedroom and to say she was the only one that has the key is a bit puzzling for me as well. If CP didn't have a key or break the door down, how did he get the gun? Maybe she didn't always lock the door, but only said she did when LE questioned her. But it sure doesn't look good on her part for CP to have shot two people with her gun which she claims was kept in a room she kept locked and only she had the key. I wonder who put the gun back?? And then to claim you may have been asleep and don't recall the events. She probally told LE that before they confronted her with the video evidence of her leaving in the truck. The she relized the jig was up and came clean.

JMO

Just an idea but perhaps CP had figured a way to sneak the gun without MR's knowledge - might have snuck it and put it back (seems unlikely tho not impossible). Also when informed of some type of horrific urgent event, I wonder did MR go to grab her gun in case it were needed (although it would not be there)?

As for MR owning up in the face of video evidence, last we heard from LE is that she was not being helpful / co-operative, which I assume means she was saying 'no comment' and not answering questions, which is her right to do so, or possibly giving false answers which LE already know are not true because of the video evidence they have from RP and MR's own home.

It is possible that RP had given over the passcodes and log ins to his own household devices to LE and they had seen the footage but MR was not aware at the time she was arrested - would MR and RP be denied to speak to one another whilst RP was detained and prior to MR's arrest?

Perhaps if MR knew how to do it, she would have deleted and destroyed the household CCTV footage but she didn't?

Maybe they all collaboratively already thought they had done so? But as we all know, digital footage never really truly 'disappears' and it may have been backed up onto a cloud, device, or storage card / chip that LE took possession of.

Personally I suspect RP was being helpful with LE in the hope of leniency and conditional bail or a non-custodial sentence but he didn't tell the full story, more charges were laid, and his bail amount shot way up. JMO MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

The mother’s bail is so high, much higher than dads. Thoughts on that? Seems she had more to do with this? Or just because it was her gun?

If she's claiming it's her gun, kept under lock and key, no way for her son to be using it, then maybe she thinks she's throwing herself on the grenade. She kind of is, but she won't save him from consequences by doing it, she's just ensuring things are worse for herself.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The mother’s bail is so high, much higher than dads. Thoughts on that? Seems she had more to do with this? Or just because it was her gun?

I would say how bail is set, is calculated directly in relation to risk and also the assets and wealth of the person. Because setting bail of $5m might be beyond all hope for an average person but mean nothing to a hollywood actor, so there's got to be some link to do with personal wealth.

Risk that MR could pose is possibly related to prior convictions, low compliance with LE so far, having been proven to blatantly deceive LE, having the means and methods to leave the country, having previously escaped custody or evaded court hearings, having previously been known to use false identities, having passports and nationality in other countries, personal assets (maybe the house is her's and not RP's?), maybe she's got independent wealth? How important her testimony is to the judge and jury and to secure her presence in court. All of that is speculation and my ideas only. Bail is calculated a bit like insurance risk is, it's an actuarial matter.

JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If she's claiming it's her gun, kept under lock and key, no way for her son to be using it, then maybe she thinks she's throwing herself on the grenade. She kind of is, but she won't save him from consequences by doing it, she's just ensuring things are worse for herself.

MOO

Well yes if she's claiming there is absolutely no way CP could have accessed the proven murder weapon, that it's been locked up and hasn't moved out of her possession, then she's caused herself a serious problem indeed. Although we don't know what she's said.

JMO MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Well yes if she's claiming there is absolutely no way CP could have accessed the proven murder weapon, that it's been locked up and hasn't moved out of her possession, then she's caused herself a serious problem indeed. Although we don't know what she's said.

JMO MOO

It's this second bit quoted from the affidavit that is going to be a major problem for her. Her room is locked, she keeps it locked, that's where the gun is kept, she is the only one with a key to that room. If she sticks to that, then the only way her son gets hold of that gun is with her knowledge and permission.

Found Deceased - TX - Savanah Soto, 18, Leon Valley, 22 December 2023 #2 *Arrests*

Just saw the news. They took her away in her Ozzy Osbourne tshirt and Christmas pajama pants. Black Sabbath it is for MR and her gun. Wow. This case just gets curiouser and curiouser.….

www.websleuths.com

MOO

 

[Joe Friday]

Well yes if she's claiming there is absolutely no way CP could have accessed the proven murder weapon, that it's been locked up and hasn't moved out of her possession, then she's caused herself a serious problem indeed. Although we don't know what she's said.

JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It's this second bit quoted from the affidavit that is going to be a major problem for her. Her room is locked, she keeps it locked, that's where the gun is kept, she is the only one with a key to that room. If she sticks to that, then the only way her son gets hold of that gun is with her knowledge and permission.

Found Deceased - TX - Savanah Soto, 18, Leon Valley, 22 December 2023 #2 *Arrests*

Just saw the news. They took her away in her Ozzy Osbourne tshirt and Christmas pajama pants. Black Sabbath it is for MR and her gun. Wow. This case just gets curiouser and curiouser.….

www.websleuths.com

MOO

Or she's implying that she's the shooter!? She obviously hadn't quite thought through this 'playing dumb' routine, if that's what she's doing.

I saw a video about gunshot residue on hands / skin and am convinced if CP pulled the trigger twice then he will easily test positive for residue on his hands, face, and other exposed areas as well as on his clothing. Also maybe the gun would still have his DNA on it even if they cleaned it. Wonder what they did with the clothing he wore that night?

 

[Megnut]

View attachment 474405

Assuming she shared a bed with her (common law?) husband, he didn't have free access to his own bedroom? Credibility check on Aisle 7.

Can't for the life of me see any advantage to her with this bit of storytelling.

JMO

 

[Joe Friday]

Or she's implying that she's the shooter!? She obviously hadn't quite thought through this 'playing dumb' routine, if that's what she's doing.

I saw a video about gunshot residue on hands / skin and am convinced if CP pulled the trigger twice then he will easily test positive for residue on his hands, face, and other exposed areas as well as on his clothing. Also maybe the gun would still have his DNA on it even if they cleaned it. Wonder what they did with the clothing he wore that night?

Without counting the days, it must have been 10 days or longer between the time SS and MG were shot and CP was arrested. I'm not sure any GSR would be detectable after that amount of time. He likely washed his hands many times in that amount of time.

Clothing maybe if not washed. Blood may also be on clothing worn that evening. I'm sure LE would have looked over clothing found in the Charlie Chan residence closely and maybe even collected any dirty laundry they found.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Or she's implying that she's the shooter!? She obviously hadn't quite thought through this 'playing dumb' routine, if that's what she's doing.

I saw a video about gunshot residue on hands / skin and am convinced if CP pulled the trigger twice then he will easily test positive for residue on his hands, face, and other exposed areas as well as on his clothing. Also maybe the gun would still have his DNA on it even if they cleaned it. Wonder what they did with the clothing he wore that night?

GSR is easily cleaned away from skin and clothing. It was more than enough time for both to be washed before the bodies were found, let alone arrests made.

Also, a number of things can give false positives for GSR, so it's not a thing you can rely on exclusively. For example, contact with car upholstery is known to be a problem - it contains antimony.

A new method to reduce false positives due to antimony in detection of gunshot residues - PubMed

False positives due to the presence of antimony in vehicle seat fabrics are a problem in gunshot residue (GSR) analysis, in particular, when graphite furnace atomic absorption spectrometry (GFAAS) is employed. In this study, we sought to determine the reason for the prevalence of false positive...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

IMO, using something like the three defendants' phones to place where they were when the victims were likely shot is going to be more reliable than testing clothing that may have been washed weeks after the fact for GSR as an indicator for who the shooter was.

High velocity blood spatter, however, would be wonderful to find, given at least one victim had a contact wound. There would be blowback. And blood evidence hangs around on cloth, unlike GSR.

MOO