Found Deceased TX - Sherin Mathews, 3, Richardson, 7 Oct 2017 #7 *Arrests*

[rosesfromangels]

I agree. Some very horrific things have happened to me and at one point in my life I wondered if I were actually a sociopath. I have severe PTSD. However, I took the horrific experiences and chose humility instead of revenge. I know I have the capacity to be evil; so I choose to be good. I got help. I know I will have to see a therapist and take medication for the rest of my life.There is a fine line some of us toe, and the direction we choose makes a difference. Instead of hunting down innocent people, I prefer to hunt down criminals and follow the law, hoping for justice. Because I can think like a criminal, I have had much success in my chosen career in CyberSecurity.

As far as this case, I just started reading yesterday, so I don't have an informed opinion yet.

MOO


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You just made my day.
You rock.

 

[Riice]

While I have much to say.. I think most of it has been said (some very eloquently)..

I have maintained from the beginning that mom needs to talk.. every post I have signed off with please mom say something..

Her silence.. speaks volumes about how important Sherin was.. or how much affection she felt for her .. this leaving her home to have dinner is just an exclamation mark, punctuation if you will to her relationship with Sherin.

I have read that WS was the more involved parent and maybe even pushed for the adoption because he was already attached to Sherin...

But in terms of abuse and control.. I want to introduce another point of view/question which stems from my professional and personal experience:

It would be interesting to know how this family immigrated to the US. I infer that they immigrated as they were both referred to as natives of Kerala
..
Did they come together as HB workers.. were the petitioned.. did Sini come first and the petition her spouse? (Since Sinis family is mostly here).. I ask because usually the primary or petitioning spouse is the one that remains in control.. with threats of deportation or emotional blackmail (ir. I brought you here)..

The only reason I bring this up or it would be relevant is in terms of who is the bigger *advertiser censored**hole in this situation.. if one is worse than the other..

We can discuss more if anyone wants..

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[Deleted member 158085]

Having a discussion about possible scenarios is what I have thought was one of the best aspects of Websleuths. I am confused by the response to the discussion of Sini's affect and demeanor, and reasons why someone might act like that, and the labeling of those discussions as giving Sini the benefit of the doubt or excusing the events or trying to elicit empathy for her. Maybe I am missing something. There was a discussion earlier about Wesley being the one who was controlled, and that he was taking the fall for Sini. All in the pursuit of hypothesis that help to explain the unexplainable

We don't know what happened inside that family, and I am interested in engaging in hypothesizing and trying to figure out what could have possibly happened. Not as a way to make someone a victim or absolve them of the consequences of their actions.

I'm not trying to quash that discussion, but I did want to state for the record what it feels like to me. My perspective probably doesn't confuse you more than the opposite perspective confuses me.

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[Philigumbo]

Nurse or not, Sini was complicit. Being a nurse has no basis to me except to say she failed at being a mandated reporter as well. She didn’t stop it or report it. A Indian physician I work with told me yesterday that a child being left behind is a common punishment in Indian culture; and that the wife would not stand up to the husband against it. He said he was left behind many times and the fear of being alone was part of the punishment as well as the loss of entertainment and socializing.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Yes, it's an interesting dynamic I haven't seen before. I suspect she has some supporters who are pushing that narrative. I'm not subscribing to it. Not at all.

Last night I did some browsing into the Lisa Steinberg death by abuse.

Multiple unique factors, not the least of which was the hallmark of being the first wholly televised trial.

Hedda Nussbaum bore the physical scars of severe abuse--including multiple broken bones and resulting physical impairments. She lost employment owing to her frequent absences from the abuse. Severe PTSD. Brainwashing to the extent of believing that Steinberg had superhuman healing powers. Based on interviews over the years, it appears likely that this woman's mental health will forever be as impaired as her physical body. That is, progress, but never wholeness.

This may have been one of the first (certainly the first highly-publicized) cases in which a woman victim of abuse was not charged as being complicit in the abuse of a child (actually children--a boy survived) owing to the syndrome associated with being an abuse victim. And feminists were deeply divided in their judgment. Some regarded this as recognition of a woman's issue that needed examination. Others regarded this as being an old-school view of women as being weak and needing protection.

In this case, I remain agnostic as to whether Sini Mathews is an abuse victim, an abuser, or an enabler and complicit in abuse leading to the death of her daughter. There are still a lot of facts out that that we don't know, many of which are already known to LE. But, I see nothing to date that can rule out the theory that Sini could be a victim.

 

[Grouchymom]

It feels like the unfounded speculation on Sini being a victim of abuse/coercion is painting a picture of "poor her." She is getting so much more benefit of the doubt, despite the horror of the crime, than before we knew she would be charged with child endangerment, and more so than I've seen happen in most other cases I'm following.

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I think we have a lot of things going on in this case that sets it apart from most we see. A death of a child is difficult for most of us to process in the best of circumstances. Illness or accidental death is difficult to process due to the loss of potential and opportunity when it involves a child. All of the milestones of life missed magnify the tragedy. But when that death is at the hands of another, A death that is absolutely unavoidable, the the grief is magnified along with the anger and frustration. In order to process that a fellow human being, a competent adult, a parent could take that life, potential and future away, we must find something that sets them apart from ourselves. WE could never do that. It could not happen to us. The person we chose to spend our lives with to create that child with or adopt that child with, could never do this. I would know if my spouse was capable of such horror. I could never love someone capable of that.

In most of the cases fortunately, we can find that thing that separates us from them Most of the child deaths resulting from abuse or neglect are from societal groups to which we don’t belong. They may be involved in drugs, that is always the easiest for us to process because we have something to blame. Something to explain the behavior the lack of rational thought. We can look at the poorly educated or those in poverty and still we can find a way to distance them from us. Honor killings of older children we can blame the culture. When all else fails and we can’t find that line in the sand, we blame evil. Yes, they must have been evil and we are not.

With the death of Sherin Mathews, the lines are far more blurred than usual. We have two educated, financially secure adults with no known criminal history, no indications of drug use, professional parents who were involved in their church. Not a fringe religion, or a cult. They were Christians. She was a nurse and reportedly a good one. He was employed, worked in IT, no scandals that we know of. They don’t live in a trailer park. They have not had previous children taken from them. They are US citizens. He appeared to dote on child.
We haven’t seen the pictures of dirty, dingy, unkempt children in cheap worn clothing or sporting bruises in various degrees of healing. We have seen a child dressed like a princess. Huggable, loveable approachable, the child you might have raised.

Suddenly, we have a dilemma, they are us. How can we separate them from us. There must be something. We look to familial culture or internal issues. Was one a closet abuser? Was one a victim? What deep dark secrets are we missing? If they are anything less than evil, it is just too uncomfortable to process. We not only want to find the differences, we need to. It frustrates and may even anger us for someone to seem to make excuses for them. For anything that puts them closer to us. Much like the lepers of old. It is just too ugly and disgusting to be close to.

God forbid they may be us.

JMHO

 

[rosesfromangels]

While I have much to say.. I think most of it has been said (some very eloquently)..

I have maintained from the beginning that mom needs to talk.. every post I have signed off with please mom say something..

Her silence.. speaks volumes about how important Sherin was.. or how much affection she felt for her .. this leaving her home to have dinner is just an exclamation mark, punctuation if you will to her relationship with Sherin.

I have read that WS was the more involved parent and maybe even pushed for the adoption because he was already attached to Sherin...

But in terms of abuse and control.. I want to introduce another point of view/question which stems from my professional and personal experience:

It would be interesting to know how this family immigrated to the US. I infer that they immigrated as they were both referred to as natives of Kerala
..
Did they come together as HB workers.. were the petitioned.. did Sini come first and the petition her spouse? (Since Sinis family is mostly here).. I ask because usually the primary or petitioning spouse is the one that remains in control.. with threats of deportation or emotional blackmail (ir. I brought you here)..

The only reason I bring this up or it would be relevant is in terms of who is the bigger *advertiser censored**hole in this situation.. if one is worse than the other..

We can discuss more if anyone wants..

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I have been dwelling on this dynamic as well. I have also been wondering if they are now citizens, or on some other status. *If* they ever get out of jail would they be deported?

 

[Midge Montana]

I see no problem in discussing the fact that Sini "may" be an abused participant in this case. It is certainly possible and we can all have our opinions especially when they are based on something we may relate to personally.
It's no different than the opinions that; they adopted her for the sole purpose of sexual abuse, both parents' crimes warrant the death penalty, milk is a code word for something else, little Sherin was abused the entire time she lived in the home of the Mathews', and so on and so on.
Neither 'side' knows any more than what has been released yet. All opinions such as the above are based mainly on speculation and what people are conjuring up in their minds.
At this time neither side is right or wrong, and I think perhaps some things might be ruled out in some minds once more information is released. Guess we will have to wait and find out.
IMO, MOO and all that.

 

[Grouchymom]

I have been dwelling on this dynamic as well. I have also been wondering if they are now citizens, or on some other status. *If* they ever get out of jail would they be deported?

Here is the info we have thus far regarding citizenship related issues;

Kumari remembers that Wesley was in touch with her first. Sini and Wesley came to see Saraswati in mid 2015. "The father and mother came to Nalanda to see Saraswati. Bahut acche the (They were very nice). They seemed like decent people.""The mother could not speak Hindi and only spoke English, but the father communicated with me. They seemed like a good family."
After they left, and the adoption was still being finalised, Wesley would call and ask Kumari to put Saraswati on the phone so he could hear her charming baby talk

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/the-child-god-took-away/20171026.htm

[FONT=&amp]Her adoptive parents are overseas citizens of India.
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The nationality by birth of the father, Wesley Mathews, is Qatari and that of the mother, Sini Mathews, is UAE. They are both US citizens.[/FONT]

https://www.outlookindia.com/newssc...-adjusting-well-but-had-eating-issues/1175180

Though it was known that Sherin's adoptee parents Wesley Mathews and Sini Mathews are from Kerala, the family has chosen not to speak out on the disappearence.
Breaking their silence, Sherin's grandparents (Wesley's parents) who live in Kochi city told TNM that they were shocked at the news of the disappearance.

http://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...s-speak-tnm-kerala-say-they-love-sherin-69979

there are several more articles referring to the couple having roots in Kerala

 

[katydid23]

That's a good/plausible theory from that evening too.

I wonder if Sini often agreed to leaving Sherin alone at night? The event must not have been too stomach churning for her as she did still order (and eat?) a meal for herself but did not bring one home for Sherin. She also apparently did not call or text anyone to check on Sherin's well-being while they were gone either. Why?

They may not have ordered her a separate meal, but we don't know if they brought her a plate of food how or not. I used to order one dinner and split it with my toddler many times.

Not saying they did, but I am just not certain that they knew she was deceased before they went to dinner.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I think we have a lot of things going on in this case that sets it apart from most we see. A death of a child is difficult for most of us to process in the best of circumstances. Illness or accidental death is difficult to process due to the loss of potential and opportunity when it involves a child. All of the milestones of life missed magnify the tragedy. But when that death is at the hands of another, A death that is absolutely unavoidable, the the grief is magnified along with the anger and frustration. In order to process that a fellow human being, a competent adult, a parent could take that life, potential and future away, we must find something that sets them apart from ourselves. WE could never do that. It could not happen to us. The person we chose to spend our lives with to create that child with or adopt that child with, could never do this. I would know if my spouse was capable of such horror. I could never love someone capable of that.

In most of the cases fortunately, we can find that thing that separates us from them Most of the child deaths resulting from abuse or neglect are from societal groups to which we don’t belong. They may be involved in drugs, that is always the easiest for us to process because we have something to blame. Something to explain the behavior the lack of rational thought. We can look at the poorly educated or those in poverty and still we can find a way to distance them from us. Honor killings of older children we can blame the culture. When all else fails and we can’t find that line in the sand, we blame evil. Yes, they must have been evil and we are not.

With the death of Sherin Mathews, the lines are far more blurred than usual. We have two educated, financially secure adults with no known criminal history, no indications of drug use, professional parents who were involved in their church. Not a fringe religion, or a cult. They were Christians. She was a nurse and reportedly a good one. He was employed, worked in IT, no scandals that we know of. They don’t live in a trailer park. They have not had previous children taken from them. They are US citizens. He appeared to dote on child.
We haven’t seen the pictures of dirty, dingy, unkempt children in cheap worn clothing or sporting bruises in various degrees of healing. We have seen a child dressed like a princess. Huggable, loveable approachable, the child you might have raised.

Suddenly, we have a dilemma, they are us. How can we separate them from us. There must be something. We look to familial culture or internal issues. Was one a closet abuser? Was one a victim? What deep dark secrets are we missing? If they are anything less than evil, it is just too uncomfortable to process. We not only want to find the differences, we need to. It frustrates and may even anger us for someone to seem to make excuses for them. For anything that puts them closer to us. Much like the lepers of old. It is just too ugly and disgusting to be close to.

God forbid they may be us.

JMHO

"It frustrates and may even anger us for someone to seem to make excuses for them. For anything that puts them closer to us. Much like the lepers of old. It is just too ugly and disgusting to be close to."

But that's just it - those excuses do not put her closer to me. Rather, they make her very foreign to me as well. So that's not why it frustrates me.

Honestly, it simply doesn't seem to be evidence - based theorizing, and it does let her off the hook to a degree. It gives her extenuating circumstances. If I saw any bit if evidence for it, I wouldn't mind going down that rabbit hole. But I don't.

I want to assign her full responsibility for her actions.

It's fine if others need to find a reason for it. But I'm just stating that in my opinion, it seems futile to theorize based on no evidence, and that it does tend to give her extenuating circumstances and therefore release her from full responsibility. And I do not release her from one iota of that without evidence of extenuating circumstances.

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[rosesfromangels]

Though the mistreatment of women is a sad truth in Indian society, I don't think we have any evidence for mistreatment of SM at the hands of WM. It is as valid as the scenario of SM being the evil mother and wife and WM taking the blame.
The fact that the Mathews' had a biological female child and specifically adopted Sherin says that the preference for boy child (female infanticide and foeticide though common in Indian society) is not relevant here.

But it is possible that Sherin's developmental issues would not have been fully anticipated by the adoptive parents when they did the adoption in India. Physically and mentally challenged individuals are invisible in the Indian society let alone being acknowledged in public spaces with suitable amenities !!

Families hide and do not acknowledge disabilities in the family lest their good name is besmirched in the arranged marriage market. More than 80% of the marriages in India are 'arranged', the bride and groom getting selected by the family (though in modern families the groom and the bride have the final say).

I would say that if Sherin had been manifesting physical and mental challenges after her arrival in the US, this would have been a major issue for the Mathews' and their extended family. Because Sherin's issues potentially impact many others in the immediate circle.

Just another theory but I would put a lot of money betting behind this one.

I think this is one of the most important posts on this thread. Very important to consider. Further, did Sherin’s supposed disabilities only manifest once in the US, and could they have been a result of abuse?

 

[Margo/Mom]

I think we have a lot of things going on in this case that sets it apart from most we see. A death of a child is difficult for most of us to process in the best of circumstances. Illness or accidental death is difficult to process due to the loss of potential and opportunity when it involves a child. All of the milestones of life missed magnify the tragedy. But when that death is at the hands of another, A death that is absolutely unavoidable, the the grief is magnified along with the anger and frustration. In order to process that a fellow human being, a competent adult, a parent could take that life, potential and future away, we must find something that sets them apart from ourselves. WE could never do that. It could not happen to us. The person we chose to spend our lives with to create that child with or adopt that child with, could never do this. I would know if my spouse was capable of such horror. I could never love someone capable of that.

In most of the cases fortunately, we can find that thing that separates us from them Most of the child deaths resulting from abuse or neglect are from societal groups to which we don’t belong. They may be involved in drugs, that is always the easiest for us to process because we have something to blame. Something to explain the behavior the lack of rational thought. We can look at the poorly educated or those in poverty and still we can find a way to distance them from us. Honor killings of older children we can blame the culture. When all else fails and we can’t find that line in the sand, we blame evil. Yes, they must have been evil and we are not.

With the death of Sherin Mathews, the lines are far more blurred than usual. We have two educated, financially secure adults with no known criminal history, no indications of drug use, professional parents who were involved in their church. Not a fringe religion, or a cult. They were Christians. She was a nurse and reportedly a good one. He was employed, worked in IT, no scandals that we know of. They don’t live in a trailer park. They have not had previous children taken from them. They are US citizens. He appeared to dote on child.
We haven’t seen the pictures of dirty, dingy, unkempt children in cheap worn clothing or sporting bruises in various degrees of healing. We have seen a child dressed like a princess. Huggable, loveable approachable, the child you might have raised.

Suddenly, we have a dilemma, they are us. How can we separate them from us. There must be something. We look to familial culture or internal issues. Was one a closet abuser? Was one a victim? What deep dark secrets are we missing? If they are anything less than evil, it is just too uncomfortable to process. We not only want to find the differences, we need to. It frustrates and may even anger us for someone to seem to make excuses for them. For anything that puts them closer to us. Much like the lepers of old. It is just too ugly and disgusting to be close to.

God forbid they may be us.

JMHO

Yes. This. All of this.

 

[Margo/Mom]

I have been dwelling on this dynamic as well. I have also been wondering if they are now citizens, or on some other status. *If* they ever get out of jail would they be deported?

My understanding, early on, (probably from Maria Guerrero) was that both are US Citizens.

 

[katydid23]

I agree. She had money, she had a car, she had relatives in the area, and she had a phone to call 911 if he became violent. She didn't have to do what he said, if indeed it was his idea to leave Sherin at home alone while they went out to eat. Either it was her idea or it was his idea and she agreed. She's just as guilty.

I don't know if she was an abused woman or not, but if she was, then those things, a car, a phone, family nearby, would not necessarily prevent more abuse if she was fully under his control already.

There is a point where the victim sees everything as useless and they feel hopeless and unable to change anything.It is like a severe depression which colors one's ability to think or respond because of the severe stress etc.

 

[katydid23]

"It frustrates and may even anger us for someone to seem to make excuses for them. For anything that puts them closer to us. Much like the lepers of old. It is just too ugly and disgusting to be close to."

But that's just it - those excuses do not put her closer to me. Rather, they make her very foreign to me as well. So that's not why it frustrates me.

Honestly, it simply doesn't seem to be evidence - based theorizing, and it does let her off the hook to a degree. It gives her extenuating circumstances. If I saw any bit if evidence for it, I wouldn't mind going down that rabbit hole. But I don't.

I want to assign her full responsibility for her actions.

It's fine if others need to find a reason for it. But I'm just stating that in my opinion, it seems futile to theorize based on no evidence, and that it does tend to give her extenuating circumstances and therefore release her from full responsibility. And I do not release her from one iota of that without evidence of extenuating circumstances.

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If you did not grow up in her culture, it would be very hard for you to understand the differences between our marriage power dynamics and a traditional Indian marriage dynamic. It can be very very different than our western dynamic and hard for us to comprehend.

The same with cultural differences in how to raise children and how to mete out punishment. It may seem very foreign to us but some have said that leaving a child alone is a rather traditional form of punishment in their culture.

I have no idea whether Sini was an abused woman or not. But I am still open to the possibility that she was under the control of a patriarchal dominant power struggle and did not know how to fight it successfully.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

If you did not grow up in her culture, it would be very hard for you to understand the differences between our marriage power dynamics and a traditional Indian marriage dynamic. It can be very very different than our western dynamic and hard for us to comprehend.

The same with cultural differences in how to raise children and how to mete out punishment. It may seem very foreign to us but some have said that leaving a child alone is a rather traditional form of punishment in their culture.

I have no idea whether Sini was an abused woman or not. But I am still open to the possibility that she was under the control of a patriarchal dominant power struggle and did not know how to fight it successfully.

I'm just going to note that I am paying very close attention to the posts from folks who have identified as Indian, and it's mostly the posts by westerners that are pushing the abused woman narrative. So my view is not simply based on me being an American.

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[MissMalowe]

Does anyone have any theories about the discrepancies between Richardson Police Department's claims about Sini's cooperation and the claims in her Lawyers' press statement in regards to that? If I remember correctly, LE claimed they talked to her the day of the disappearance, later that evening and the following day. And the press statement said she went in for hours "a few days later." Would there be a reason there is 2 different claims about when her cooperation ended, other than simply one side not being truthful? Would there be a legal reasons or a reason that could aid in the investigation or be some sort of tactic to accomplish something other than public outrage directed at the mother? Some way of making Wesley or his attorneys think one thing is happening when it is another?

The public plea (by LE) for Sini to come back to answer more questions seemed odd to me. Obviously they had her address, phone number, likely knew where she was staying when not at home, as well as her attorneys names and contact info that they could have reached out to, so why the publicly made plea? What was their possible reasoning behind that, besides the obvious?

Are they attempting to make one parent (Sini) believe the other has "ratted them out?" Is all of this smoke and mirrors to make it seem as though Sini has not made any statements about what happened that night that would not implicate Wesley when she infact has?

I'm at a loss on this one.... Maybe I'm thinking too hard about something that simply IS just a miscommunication/misunderstanding/one side fibbing. Does anyone have any ideas about possible reasons for this?

 

[TeaTime]

I don't think they wanted this particular child and I don't think they liked her, much less felt any love for her. I think they were stuck with her and no other option at the orphanage and took her because they would feel 'un-Christian' if they didn't accept her with her issues. And, I don't think the severity of her issues was apparent at adoption but only became obvious as she failed to hit normal marks.

They were overwhelmed and had no maternal or paternal instinct to fall back on because she wasn't really their child.

JMHO

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I don't think they wanted this particular child and I don't think they liked her, much less felt any love for her. I think they were stuck with her and no other option at the orphanage and took her because they would feel 'un-Christian' if they didn't accept her with her issues. And, I don't think the severity of her issues was apparent at adoption but only became obvious as she failed to hit normal marks.

They were overwhelmed and had no maternal or paternal instinct to fall back on because she wasn't really their child.

JMHO

The adoption day video seems to show some excitement on Wesley's part, but not Sini's. Despite the likelihood of her being the caretaker based on cultural norms, there is some evidence that he may have been either the primary caretaker of her, or at least split the duties down the middle. If she never formed an attachment to Sherin, it's possible that all of the care fell to Wesley (he may have expected she would over time). This may have added to his frustration and anger, and may explain her lack of caring about how she was punished or if she was forced to eat or drink.

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