TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, Midlothian, 18 Apr 2016 #46

[SandyQLS]

Do either of you remember what we determined her purpose for going all the way down the hall or at least to the main entrance (West) was.
IIRC, I thought (way back in the threads) we determined there was a light switch for more lighting in the hallway(s) near the alcove of the main west doors?

The date is August 2012. I remain very interested in those cutaways behind the two pillars where there is just space for two chairs and a table. They seem to move small tables and other items around in the hallways quite often. On the wall to Cub Corner it looks like a white outlet plate down low by the baseboard, and perhaps a white light switch midway up. The black fish eye camera under the air duct is missing in this photo but can be seen in others.

 

[Mistree]

The date is August 2012. I remain very interested in those cutaways behind the two pillars where there is just space for two chairs and a table. They seem to move small tables and other items around in the hallways quite often. On the wall to Cub Corner it looks like a white outlet plate down low by the baseboard, and perhaps a white light switch midway up. The black fish eye camera under the air duct is missing in this photo but can be seen in others.

Thank you, I remember a lengthy discussion about this but unfortunately not the details.

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

RSBM for focus.

I want to go back to the targeted vs. interrupted burglary discussion for a moment. I just cannot reconcile what we know with a burglary or B&E scenario. Yes, it could be exactly that. I am not ruling it out, and if you tell me that it could have been, I won't disagree with you. Here's why I find that situation unlikely.

1. According to what we have heard and what GS just wrote, MB was killed very shortly after she entered the building. The situation escalated quickly. If this was a burglary or B&E scenario, why would SP have killed MB? SP had a gun, and MB did not. SP was larger in stature than MB, and if this was a random encounter, SP would not have known MB was fit. Why would SP have felt threatened, and why would that have resulted in him killing MB? If MB felt threatened, she would have likely wanted to retreat to her vehicle to get her gun before confronting SP, but she never had that opportunity.
2. SP would have not been worried about MB recognizing him. His identity was concealed, and his likeness was already caught on security footage.
3. I am hard pressed to believe that MB would have been an aggressor in this situation. She was where she was supposed to be, and this strange man appeared. Would her immediate reaction been to attack him? If not, why did SP go on the offensive and so quickly?
4. SP appears to be comfortable handling many tools/weapons/accessories.... the pry bar/hammer, the gun, the head lamp, the police vest, the balaclava, and so on. To an ordinary citizen, all of those things would have been fairly cumbersome. And when it mattered, SP was able to access his gun... even with MB putting up a fight. This points to someone who is comfortable around guns or has training. And people who have training or experience with guns are able to show restraint and use the least amount of force necessary (i.e. simply drawing a weapon rather than using it).
5. I appreciate NIN's thoughts of fight, flee, or freeze. However, given that SP had the upper hand (size and armed), why did he feel the need to kill MB, especially in the commission of a small crime? I cannot imagine what MB would have done, especially in light of the creepy messages, to warrant SP feeling like he had to kill her. If SP wanted, I am sure he could have fled..... even if after momentarily freezing.
6. While I admit burglary can escalate into murder, it doesn't fit the situation. How often does petty theft (looking for a couple hundred dollars) or a casual trespassing case escalate to murder in a commercial setting? If this was a residential setting, the possibility goes up. If this was a bank heist that went awry, I can see it happening. But if BG is just out for a stroll and looking for pocket change, murder does not seem to follow.
7. All of the broken glass was near the NE corner... out of MB's sight when she entered. Coincidence? Perhaps.
8. And MB's attack was off camera. This could have just been luck, but if so, this perp got really lucky when it mattered most.
   
   It is not one thing for me. It's the totality of the circumstances. And I admit that #7 and #8 are really weak arguments, but they are still part of what we know. If SP was there to make sure MB did not escape, all of those questions have easy answers.

I think at this point, Team Targeted and Team Untargeted are pretty well entrenched in their respective positions. It doesn’t seem that anybody is going to persuade many people to change sides. Most know that I lean toward Untargeted. That is just my opinion.

A lot of your points really boil down to, “Why would this person have killed Missy when they didn’t have to?” I think that is the number one go-to argument that Targeted proponents make. But doesn’t that also apply to the other side? Even if this person had it in for Missy specifically, why KILL her? Why not exact that revenge in some other way such as public humiliation, getting her fired from her job, contacting her husband, or even coming to this church in disguise and beating the hell out of her but still let her live?

I think maybe the thing to keep in mind here is that you and I are rational people thinking rational thoughts. But this murder was an irrational act, committed by someone whose thought process told them it was okay to break into a house of worship that they had no business being in. So I think it’s always going to be a mistake to let our theories of motive be guided by whether or not SP did the “right” thing in the moment. Nothing about what they did from beginning to end was “right”.

Some specific points: you say all the glass was out of sight. Well, it’s on the N and NE sides because that is what is most obscured from the road. And SP left doors standing wide open, so that sort of negates being worried about appearances.

The attack being off-camera. I still don’t get what is lucky about that. But considering she walked in at the SW and there are the two cameras there but none at the NW or SE, the only places the murder COULD have been on camera were between the entrance and the purplish table, or between the entrance and the first couple of rooms on the south hallway.

To your point about escalation to murder in commercial burglaries, I would guess it’s rare for the commercial burglar to encounter someone. If there are security guards, it’s a no-go. Alarm system, it’s a no go. Seems like they mitigate the risk so that confrontation isn’t an issue. In this case, obviously, who would have ever thought someone would walk into a church h prior to 4:30 am? It’s not like they had a 24-hour prayer room.

You’re also unnecessarily downplaying the reality of burglary when you refer to SP going for a “stroll” and “looking for pocket change”. In the burglary study I posted earlier in this thread which I don’t think anyone read, it talks about why burglars burgle. Very often they are in desperate situations. They’re unemployed. They may have an addiction where they are driven by a physical dependence to finance it. Often they are in need of hard cash. To this person, a rural good-sized church on a Sunday night right after offerings were made could be an attractive target. So I’m not sure why you think it “doesn’t fit the situation”.

As for SP being comfortable around guns... who knows. Maybe she was shot precisely because SP was inexperienced with them. Maybe the gun went off unintentionally. And I don’t necessarily see a comfort level with the outfit, either. A hammer doesn’t take much comfort. The pry bar didn’t work out too well in the only footage of it we saw. Many have made fun of the way the hammer is swung.

One more possibility to throw out here in response to “why would SP kill her?” It could have been untargeted but then Missy could have recognized SP because Missy knew a lot of people. Or it might have been enough for SP to THINK Missy recognized her.

As I said, I don’t think anyone is going to convince someone who has already formed an opinion. But I still think these intellectual thought exercises are useful to us all.

ETA: By the way, this church does have some history of burglary. Prior to Missy’s murder a trailer was stolen from the parking lot. And then last year, someone stole a charger that was used to charge the golf cart battery (those things are expensive).

 

[GA_Peach]

I don't think it is clear that SP could have fled. SP does not appear agile at all and perhaps slightly disabled. In fact, in a fair fight with no weapons, my bet would be on MB easily. So, SP was facing MB calling the police rather quickly and getting arrested. Had SP been in prison before and didn't want to go back? Was SP on drugs that limited rational thought? Was SP a young adult using their Dad's tools and weapons?

If SP wanted the attack to be off camera, they would have bagged the cameras.

First, nothing in the video we have seen seems to indicate that SP is on drugs. He seems to be in control and walking in a non-erratic manner. In terms of whether SP could beat MB in a fight with no weapons, it doesn't matter. SP was armed. MB was not.

The next part of this is based on personal experience. If one party is armed and the other party is not, it's very easy to stop the non-armed party in his tracks, even if the unarmed party may be set on inflicting great harm. SP could have very easily controlled MB without hurting her. Ask her to turn over her phone if he is worried about being caught... plus he could then sell her phone and make some cash.

Could SP have fled? We really don't know. However, even if SP was caught, he would have probably faced trespassing and vandalism charges. That's nothing compared to a murder charge! In terms of fleeing, there were exterior doors all over the place. SP would have just had to make it to his car... that was a few hundred yards away. SP was strong enough to overpower MB and then shoot her. It doesn't pass the smell test that he was not able-bodied enough to flee.

GS, the church does have a history of burglary, but it doesn't have a history of murder. That's what sets the MB case apart from other incidents.

And an accidental shot (likely to the head or chest since no other injuries were reported on the initial SWs) would be insanely lucky, especially since MB put up a fight. I think the chances of the attack randomly being off camera are significantly higher than an accidental/inexperienced shot causing a fatal wound.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind, but I do not see any information that screams untargeted to me. If it were untargeted, I would have expected a different set of facts.

ETA - Killing another person is on an entirely different level than property crime and is not a reflexive action to being startled (fight). Murder is the LAST resort, even for most criminals.

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

See comments inline in bold.

First, nothing in the video we have seen seems to indicate that SP is on drugs. He seems to be in control and walking in a non-erratic manner. One of the first things we see is SP reaching out to touch the wall as if for balance. And that is something MPD is interested in. In terms of whether SP could beat MB in a fight with no weapons, it doesn't matter. SP was armed. MB was not.

The next part of this is based on personal experience. If one party is armed and the other party is not, it's very easy to stop the non-armed party in his tracks, even if the unarmed party may be set on inflicting great harm. SP could have very easily controlled MB without hurting her. Ask her to turn over her phone if he is worried about being caught... plus he could then sell her phone and make some cash. It would be a stolen phone and he or she would have something in their possession that belonged to the victim. If you think this perp is going to think everything through and do the rational thing, why would they do that?

Could SP have fled? We really don't know. However, even if SP was caught, he would have probably faced trespassing and vandalism charges. That's nothing compared to a murder charge! How often have you heard of any person while in the act of committing a crime having some internal dialogue where they say to themselves, “What are the charges if I do this? How many years if I do that?” Doesn’t that seem unrealistic in the real world? In terms of fleeing, there were exterior doors all over the place. SP would have just had to make it to his car... that was a few hundred yards away. SP was strong enough to overpower MB and then shoot her. It doesn't pass the smell test that he was not able-bodied enough to flee. If you’re going to play what-if with the theory of burglary, you have to first accept that it would be an INTERRUPTED burglary. There are elements of surprise, confusion, panic, anger, and everything is split-second. Instinctive. Reactive. The perp is not someone in a web forum who had the luxury of sitting there and thinking through all possible scenarios. (See my ETA down at the bottom.)

GS, the church does have a history of burglary, but it doesn't have a history of murder. That's what sets the MB case apart from other incidents. True. In two of three incidents, the building was unoccupied and no one got hurt. In one incident, someone showed up and got killed.

And an accidental shot (likely to the head or chest since no other injury were reported on the initial SWs) would be insanely lucky, especially since MB put up a fight. None of us have any idea whether or not she put up a fight. I think the chances of the attack randomly being off camera are significantly higher than an accidental/inexperienced shot causing a fatal wound. I’m not sure why you’re comparing those two separate points since the shot being deliberate or not, and the murder being on camera, are two entirely different things. I still don’t know why it would make any difference for the murder to be on camera. If they catch the killer based on other evidence, it won’t matter whether the murder itself was on camera. People go to prison for murder every day and very very few are actually on video.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind, but I do not see any information that screams untargeted to me. If it were untargeted, I would have expected a different set of facts. Well that is the fascinating and confounding truth of this case. There is nothing that “screams” targeted OR untargeted, IMHO. But the problem is, nearly everyone went down just one of those tracks for five years, while disregarding the other.

ETA - Killing another person is on an entirely different level than property crime and is not a reflexive action to being startled (fight). I disagree. It absolutely could be a reflexive action to not only being startled, but startled in the midst of a burglary when possibly the victim is BETWEEN you and your exit, and you have things in your hands or in a holster that will take care of the situation. And there’s no thinking about “levels”. Murder is the LAST resort, even for most criminals. Again... felony murder. Murder committed while in the act of committing another offense. It is not rare.

ETA: Someone on Quora asked a question about how often robberies end up with the victim being murdered. One of the answers was interesting:

“I remember one training exercise where we (who usually were the bad guys) switched roles with drivers of armoured trucks. We then gave them the task of robbing us, and we were (unknown to them) behave the way you shouldn’t… Running away, freezing, refusing to cooperate…

Fully 50% of the drivers ended up shooting us. The guns were loaded with training blanks, of course. But the astonishing thing was that after the exercise (and they got very intense), some of the drivers were in tears, because they hadn’t meant to shoot us. And during the exercise, no-one remembered it was only an exercise. In that moment, it was real. Their anger was real. Their shock when they shot me in the face and I flipped over dead… That really shocked them.

But it really drove the message home that robbers were very, very stressed indeed, usually. And that you really didn’t want to raise that stress level any further, unless you wanted to be shot. Even accidentally.”
How often do gun robberies end in the death of the victim compared to knife robberies? Are there any specific data on this subject? - Quora

 

[GA_Peach]

I am assuming MB fought back because we have heard that there were signs of a struggle. That would indicate some kind of altercation.

I don't want to go into great detail about my personal situation, but we were recently the victims of a very disturbed perp (came out of nowhere). Even when our lives were imminently threatened, we still contemplated whether we would shoot the attacker. Thankfully, the attacker decided to retreat. While I will concede that potential charges were the furthest thing from our minds, I can assure you that nothing was more front and center than the idea that we may actually have to kill a person. As a person who has actually been in that situation, the immediate reaction was not to SHOOT and KILL the attacker. Killing another human, even when threatened, is not reflexive. Defending and protecting yourself is reflexive. Taking another's life, even when your own life is threatened, it's not as simple as pulling a trigger.

All that I can say is that as someone who has been on the receiving end of surprise, confusion, and anger during the commission of a crime, my immediate reaction was not to kill someone. And he was the aggressor. If I placed myself in the shoes of a burglar, I would not have elevated my crime to MURDER unless my life was threatened. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

I am assuming MB fought back because we have heard that there were signs of a struggle. That would indicate some kind of altercation.

I don't want to go into great detail about my personal situation, but we were recently the victims of a very disturbed perp (came out of nowhere). Even when our lives were imminently threatened, we still contemplated whether we would shoot an attacker. Thankfully, the attacker decided to retreat. While I will concede that potential charges were the furthest thing from our minds, I can assure you that nothing was more front and center than the idea that we may actually have to kill a person. As a person who has actually been in that situation, the immediate reaction was not to SHOOT and KILL the attacker. Killing another human, even when threatened, is not reflexive. Defending and protecting yourself is reflexive. Taking another's life is not, and even when your own life is threatened, it's not as simple as pulling a trigger.

I guess you need to read the Quora example in my previous reply to you. It seems to directly contradict your premise.

 

[GA_Peach]

I guess you need to read the Quora example in my previous reply to you. It seems to directly contradict your premise.

I did read the Quora example, and I am not trusting Quora more than my own personal experience. Also, you left out this very important part of the Quora reply, "But judging by the reports I’ve read, victims of robberies who were actually injured during a robbery usually did something stupid, like try to grab the gun or something. Robbers don’t usually intend to shoot the victim. They don’t need to. So unless they are mentally seriously ill, there’s no reason to do so." I am not sure if you missed this part of the response, but I felt it was important to point out.

As I stated in my original post on this subject, MB would have had a huge disincentive to go on the offensive (she was smaller and unarmed). And my assertion that SP could have controlled MB without shooting her is indirectly supported by the Quora link. Your Quora article actually reinforces my belief that MB was shot because SP wanted her dead... and not because MB stood between him and his escape route. That's not usually a scenario in which a victim would be shot.

 

[No it's not]

Take a look at the sequence in the west hall. At one point I believe SP is putting some item back into the upper right area. When SP first appears and comes to the door at Room 2 SP has something in their right hand because they open the door with their left hand and after coming out of room 2 SP attempts the Room 1 door with their left hand as well. Perhaps the item is one and the same seen at the SW alcove area.

SP is already carrying the hammer he uses to pry open room #1 when they approach room #2. Not a different object. We see him carrying the hammer in his right hand as well, when approaching the auditorium. It is most likely a tactical flashlight he is pulling out at that time. I wanted to be sure it was not a gun he drew. And it was not.

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

You don't think that with this image LE aren't able to have some indications about the SP's height ?

They had all the heights they needed..I am sure. ;--)

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

Do either of you remember what we determined her purpose for going all the way down the hall or at least to the main entrance (West) was.
IIRC, I thought (way back in the threads) we determined there was a light switch for more lighting in the hallway(s) near the alcove of the main west doors?

That is something I have been wondering about all along. Did the church have a main light switch plate to regulate intensity (hallways)? Was that ever confirmed? If MB was walking down the hallway heading towards that light switch, any jerking, turn of her head and /or looking towards something or towards from where she may have heard a noise would have happened in a lateral way. The SW camera would have recorded her from behind her back. For the podiatrist to mention her noticing something he would have had to see her moving her head towards her left or right.

Also, we need to keep in mind, that for anyone to be able to react to a threat and to draw a holstered handgun, it would require app. 1.5 secs (and that's for a trained person) or the thread had to be at least 21 feet away. That's the 21 feet "rule".

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[RANCH]

Has there been any reports of burglars matching the description of SP before or after MB was killed? I mean wearing the same outfit and acting the same way?

Was this a one and done burglary or a series?

 

[No it's not]

Has there been any reports of burglars matching the description of SP before or after MB was killed? I mean wearing the same outfit and acting the same way?

Was this a one and done burglary or a series?

Hi RANCH, one strange thing did happen in January I think of 2016 in Waxachachie (app. 13 miles from Midlothian). Google Waxachachie gym vandalized twice in same week. The guy would be too tall to be our SP. However, looking at the senselessness of what he did and the time of the night (3:45am), it sure could have given someone an idea. The perp was known and caught on camera. He was not disguised at all. An off duty police officer was present in the 24 hr gym, when the offense occurred. All elements but the gun are present..

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[SteveS]

Has there been any reports of burglars matching the description of SP before or after MB was killed? I mean wearing the same outfit and acting the same way?

Was this a one and done burglary or a series?

I haven't heard of any before ... but I can't imagine a perp with half a brain would wear such an outfit again. Ever.

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

I did read the Quora example, and I am not trusting Quora more than my own personal experience. Also, you left out this very important part of the Quora reply, "But judging by the reports I’ve read, victims of robberies who were actually injured during a robbery usually did something stupid, like try to grab the gun or something. Robbers don’t usually intend to shoot the victim. They don’t need to. So unless they are mentally seriously ill, there’s no reason to do so." I am not sure if you missed this part of the response, but I felt it was important to point out.

As I stated in my original post on this subject, MB would have had a huge disincentive to go on the offensive (she was smaller and unarmed). And my assertion that SP could have controlled MB without shooting her is indirectly supported by the Quora link. Your Quora article actually reinforces my belief that MB was shot because SP wanted her dead... and not because MB stood between him and his escape route. That's not usually a scenario in which a victim would be shot.

Well, the main thrust of what the guy said was that in the exercise, 50% of the victims were “shot” as they did the unexpected - freezing, not obeying a command, attempting to flee. In these cases, the “assailant” shot without meaning to, under pressure and probably with some nervous twitches / muscle spasms going on that are uncontrollable.

So while I left out the part of the Quora response you point out, it just makes my point stronger to include it. A burglar may shoot someone, sometimes intentionally, and sometimes unintentionally if the victim does something unexpected because it adds to just one more element to an already stressful situation. You yourself think there was a struggle (although I don’t think any credible source has actually told us that; assumptions were made because of broken glass). So maybe Missy tried to grab the gun. Or tried to flee. There are many possibilities for what the encounter could have been. We don’t know what actually happened, so we can’t rule out either targeted or untargeted.

 

[RANCH]

Hi RANCH, one strange thing did happen in January I think of 2016 in Waxachachie (app. 13 miles from Midlothian). Google Waxachachie gym vandalized twice in same week. The guy would be too tall to be our SP. However, looking at the senselessness of what he did and the time of the night (3:45am), it sure could have given someone an idea. The perp was known and caught on camera. He was not disguised at all. An off duty police officer was present in the 24 hr gym, when the offense occurred. All elements but the gun are present..

ALL IMO

-Nin

Interesting story however it isn't even similar to this case.

I'm just wondering if SP was simply trying to steal things if he had done it in the same manner in the past and forward from the killing of MB. JMO

 

[No it's not]

Hi RANCH, one strange thing did happen in January I think of 2016 in Waxachachie (app. 13 miles from Midlothian). Google Waxachachie gym vandalized twice in same week. The guy would be too tall to be our SP. However, looking at the senselessness of what he did and the time of the night (3:45am), it sure could have given someone an idea. The perp was known and caught on camera. He was not disguised at all. An off duty police officer was present in the 24 hr gym, when the offense occurred. All elements but the gun are present..

ALL IMO

-Nin

Oh, and notice the name of the gym..very church related. Again, I am only mentioning it as a possibility for some cliffhanger copycat.

-Nin

 

[RANCH]

Oh, and notice the name of the gym..very church related. Again, I am only mentioning it as a possibility for some cliffhanger copycat.

-Nin

Sorry I don't see the connection. JMO

 

[scoodyboo]

One more possibility to throw out here in response to “why would SP kill her?” It could have been untargeted but then Missy could have recognized SP because Missy knew a lot of people. Or it might have been enough for SP to THINK Missy recognized her.

Or if we go along with the untargeted theory, maybe SP recognized Missy and freaked out. (Also there's a notion that if she had her phone with her, she could have called 911.)

Whatever we all think, none of us know. I appreciate hearing all of the viewpoints and theories on both sides. Personally, I flip flop every other day it seems, trying to figure out what makes the most sense.
Thanks to you all for all you do to try to figure it out so there can be justice for Missy.

 

[cady]

My guess is that SP KNEW that Missy would recognize her, thus the ridiculous unisex get-up. (Always makes me laugh, when I see SP because I'm reminded of "Pat" from SNL, lol.) jmo