TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #3

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548918487803867136

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548919109244833792

 

[amandab]

Many thanks to all of the members who are summarizing and sharing info here; this is so horrific that i'm largely avoiding it.

 

[Leve]

I'm a special needs teacher at a small elementary school in Helsinki - we don't have active shooter drills, but we do practice twice a year evacuation in to the classrooms and then out of the building to the sports field. The doors are locked during the school day, but the school yard is open to the street with no fences or gates. Obviously a shooter is not a huge worry, we have had just 2 school shootings in the history of Finland (though even that is much by Nordic standards, I don't remember if there even have been other such attacks in the Nordic countries apart from these two).

Anyway, such shambles - you need a crystal clear chain of command and a competent and efficient situation commander leading and co-ordinating the response. Now there was an (even partly needless) abundance of personnel and agencies but no-one to lead and co-ordinate them. Prescious lifes were lost because of that. Such a tragedy.

Anders Behring Breivik didn't attack a school but he killed 77 people at a camp in Norway.

 

[Dotta]

"Let me know if there's any kids in there or anything': Uvalde school police chief is captured on bodycam footage trying to negotiate with teen gunman while he's shooting children behind classroom door."​

VIDEO: Uvalde school police chief 'tries to negotiate with gunman'

Peter Arredondo was on his phone in the hallway at Robb Elementary, begging shooter Salvador Ramos to stop his attack. He told him 'this could be peaceful' and asked him to 'please put your firearm down.'

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[WingsOverTX]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548918487803867136

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548919109244833792

Re: 1st Video - Is he speaking in Spanish? Because it says he was telling someone his wife is in the classroom but I can't understand what he is saying. And I hear/see no urgency? What am I missing? TIA!

 

[WingsOverTX]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548918487803867136

https://twitter.com/x/status/1548919109244833792

This article is linked in a comment below the 2nd video. It does not necessarily reflect my opinion but worth a read IMO.

The Legal Precedents That Haunt Uvalde
Cops have pulled the trigger on active shooters—and paid the price.

It is difficult to know how much court verdicts affect an officer’s decision to use force.

Some research finds that cops know relatively little about qualified immunity and make split-second decisions based on instinct alone. But even if police aren’t thinking about appellate court precedents when they zero in on a suspect, said Rafael Mangual, a policing scholar at the Manhattan Institute, lawsuits can still diminish morale and encourage officers to be less aggressive in the field.
....
"Police feel like they won’t get a fair look if they get in trouble," Mangual said.
....
In a pair of 2019 cases, Cole v. Carson and Winzer v. Kaufman County, the Fifth Circuit sided against police who fired on armed suspects—both of whom appeared to be on the verge of committing mass shootings

The Legal Precedents That Haunt Uvalde - Washington Free Beacon

As a gunman approached Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, one police officer had an AR-15 trained on the suspect. Had he taken the shot, a report from the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center concluded last week, 2 teachers and 19 children might still be alive.

freebeacon.com

 

[WingsOverTX]

"Let me know if there's any kids in there or anything': Uvalde school police chief is captured on bodycam footage trying to negotiate with teen gunman while he's shooting children behind classroom door."​

VIDEO: Uvalde school police chief 'tries to negotiate with gunman'

Peter Arredondo was on his phone in the hallway at Robb Elementary, begging shooter Salvador Ramos to stop his attack. He told him 'this could be peaceful' and asked him to 'please put your firearm down.'

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

I need a throw up emoji. I just can't read anymore. PA's conduct from beginning to end is so completely wrong in every respect.

He needs to be punished for failure to act in any reasonable manner. To much blood on his hands to even fathom.

Other agency's lead officers had time to take him aside & arrest him on scene. They should have!

If he is still on paid leave, that is a further injury to the community. Lock him up!

My opinion only

 

[sds71]

Before she was killed, Alithia submitted a drawing for the Doodle for Google national search.
Now, as the search narrows down to five finalists who will be decided on Thursday, July 28, Google is holding a space for Alithia.


“I want the world to see my art and show the world what I can do,” Alithia wrote. “I want people to be happy when they see my passion in art.”

Uvalde victim got to 'show the world what I can do' with her art

Alithia Haven Ramirez's submission to Doodle for Google received a special placement on...

www.mysanantonio.com

 

[RANCH]

Uvalde shooting report finds 'culture of noncompliance' among staff, 'tacitly condoned' by administrators

The Texas House of Representatives determined that Robb Elementary School staff in Uvalde violated safety protocols in a "culture of noncompliance."

www.foxnews.com

The report stated: "The west door to the west building was supposed to be continuously locked. When the attacker approached on May 24, 2022, it was unlocked, and he was able to enter the building there."

"While the school had adopted security policies to lock exterior doors and internal classroom doors, there was a regrettable culture of noncompliance by school personnel who frequently propped doors open and deliberately circumvented locks," the report stated. "At a minimum, school administrators and school district police tacitly condoned this behavior as they were aware of these unsafe practices and did not treat them as serious infractions requiring immediate correction."

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Not that this makes any difference - but did it also play into this shooters descent into "his madness" (no- I do not think he was "mad" - insane. He was broken.

Also that report about him being abused by a former boyfriend of mom. Wow.

And if he gotten speech / language help?

It seems he suffered a lot in elementary school, didn't receive needed therapy, and by the time he decided to commit the shooting, his relationship with his parents had deteriorated. (Just like Adam Lanza! My opinions only).

And then access to this massive weapon was a piece of cake.

There were so many balls dropped starting years ago. I agree with you that we will never know if one thing would have made the difference.

(BTW, the story that a girl tied his shoes together making him trip breaks my heart. I have 4th grade boy in my family right now. They just want to be treated well by their classmates so badly.

And then the rumor he was sexually abused and not believed / helped is horrific. I hope it's not true. Maybe he broke a little at a time until his humanity was irreparable.
Yet...all not an excuse to grow up to commit this evil.)

 

[lilmystery]

i dont understand any of this here in australia we dont have school shootings but all primary schools surroundings are locked and gated and parents/carers have to be scanned in and the schools are fenced and the front gate locked

not all school here in australia have scanner and locks like that but they should

 

[WingsOverTX]

I

He was obviously totally out of his depth - a small, quite safe town, then out of the blue a disaster strikes, and he couldn't handle it. I mean, certainly an unimaginably tough challenge, but he was supposed to be a professional, they had drills in place, they had documented policies of how to act. I hate to pick on individuals in these huge disasters with so many people involved, but he did not assume command and it was a big step for all the other agencies to take it - though they should have. They were desperate and chaotic moments and they were not the first to arrive. I really hope that lessons will be learned about this.

And I won't even go to the politics of it- I personally think that there is something really wrong in a society where these tragedies are routine, that there is something deeply rotten there somewhere. A wealthy, modern Western society should surely be mostly free and safe from such insane violence and threat. But that's another discussion.

RBBM
I think it goes beyond that.

Does he have medical or psychological issues? Because he says VERY contradictory things in his testimony - contradicts himself & obvious truths about the situation and his response to it.

I feel to a degree he was/is disconnected from reality. I am very critical of PA so even if he has a diagnosed problem, he needs to be held accountable. Why is that not happening?

Who was HIS supervisor in the police department? At the district? Does anyone know?

Just my opinions

 

[Wise Old Owl]

These are the 4 key takeaways from the Uvalde shooting investigation report

The investigative committee found law enforcement's response to the massacre involved little coordination and no leadership. School faculty, meanwhile, failed to uphold existing safeguards.

www.npr.org

"After Arredondo entered the school, he went to classroom 110, which had bullet holes, but no children were inside. He then "prayed" the kids in rooms 111 and 112, where the gunman fired more than 100 rounds, had been emptied as well, he testified.

They had not been, and Arredondo proceeded to handle the incident as one of a "barricaded subject" and not an active shooter, according to the report.

"With the benefit of hindsight, we now know this was a terrible, tragic mistake," the committee wrote."



Common sense - or lack thereof. You have a shooter that went into a room and fired off over 100 rounds - yet you "pray" there was no one in that room? WTH did he think that shooter was shooting at? Was he just firing to be firing?

This wasn't a "mistake" on PA's part. It is a clear cut case of incompetence. Lack of training - complete lack of thought.

Something struck me last night as I went to bed. The teacher in room 111 - Mr. Reyes (I believe his name is) is PA's cousin. It has been reported that he has not heard from nor spoken to PA since the shooting. That is as cold-hearted as you can get. He is family. The ignorance, arrogance and outright cowardice (by lying to his superiors, to the government agencies investigating it, to his own family) is inexcusable. I'm surprised that there hasn't been a "lynch mob" trying to get to him - but I guess its all the "good ole boys" rallying around him - providing protection that is keeping the "crowds" at bay. Shame, he gets protection when it was him that couldn't provide the protection that those babies needed so badly that day.


P.S. - I really need to stop reading these articles about him and what he has said. It makes my blood pressure go up.



JMHO

 

[Dotta]

I

RBBM
I think it goes beyond that.

Does he have medical or psychological issues? Because he says VERY contradictory things in his testimony - contradicts himself & obvious truths about the situation and his response to it.

I feel to a degree he was/is disconnected from reality. I am very critical of PA so even if he has a diagnosed problem, he needs to be held accountable. Why is that not happening?

Who was HIS supervisor in the police department? At the district? Does anyone know?

Just my opinions

It might be a "job burnout".

It happens often in stressful professions: LE, doctors, teachers, etc.

Don't Americans say it is healthy to change a job every ten years?
I once read about it and the autor was certainly from the USA.

 

[WingsOverTX]

These are the 4 key takeaways from the Uvalde shooting investigation report

The investigative committee found law enforcement's response to the massacre involved little coordination and no leadership. School faculty, meanwhile, failed to uphold existing safeguards.

www.npr.org

"After Arredondo entered the school, he went to classroom 110, which had bullet holes, but no children were inside. He then "prayed" the kids in rooms 111 and 112, where the gunman fired more than 100 rounds, had been emptied as well, he testified.

They had not been, and Arredondo proceeded to handle the incident as one of a "barricaded subject" and not an active shooter, according to the report.

"With the benefit of hindsight, we now know this was a terrible, tragic mistake," the committee wrote."



Common sense - or lack thereof. You have a shooter that went into a room and fired off over 100 rounds - yet you "pray" there was no one in that room? WTH did he think that shooter was shooting at? Was he just firing to be firing?

This wasn't a "mistake" on PA's part. It is a clear cut case of incompetence. Lack of training - complete lack of thought.

Something struck me last night as I went to bed. The teacher in room 111 - Mr. Reyes (I believe his name is) is PA's cousin. It has been reported that he has not heard from nor spoken to PA since the shooting. That is as cold-hearted as you can get. He is family. The ignorance, arrogance and outright cowardice (by lying to his superiors, to the government agencies investigating it, to his own family) is inexcusable. I'm surprised that there hasn't been a "lynch mob" trying to get to him - but I guess its all the "good ole boys" rallying around him - providing protection that is keeping the "crowds" at bay. Shame, he gets protection when it was him that couldn't provide the protection that those babies needed so badly that day.


P.S. - I really need to stop reading these articles about him and what he has said. It makes my blood pressure go up.



JMHO

Please take care of yourself. I really appreciate you helping keep us informed (I don't have time to read all the reports).

But this is overwhelming even for distant bystanders.

Keep venting & remember you are not alone in reacting very strongly.

I am very concerned for the Uvalde community but have to be careful to not take it all so personally. Mostly I feel angry. And that's not constructive so I need to take long breaks.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

It might be a "job burnout".

It happens often in stressful professions: LE, doctors, teachers, etc.

Don't Americans say it is healthy to change a job every ten years?
I once read about it and the autor was certainly from the USA.

No, its not "burnout".

And this is JMHO
I believe he shimmied his way up the ladder in his "career". They say "its not what you know but who you know (I use a different word but can't say it on here ). He kept his head down, did what he needed to do to get by, and "buddied" his way through his early jobs. When he decided to "come back home" to Uvalde someone (don't know who - could have been the mayor or the school superintendent) told him "ya know? We've been talking about setting up a school police force - and you could "be our guy". "Look, its good pay - you really don't need to do anything - we're a small town with such a low crime rate - all you're gonna be doing is bustin' teenagers smoking weed. Whatcha think? I heard the starting pay is going to be close to 90 grand a year." PA puffed out his chest and played all the right cards and said all the right things and "slithered" his way into the job. Its a shame that those that rallied around him and got him the job are now the ones that seem to "have his back" instead of looking at the situation and admitting that maybe, just maybe they made a mistake with this guy?

Is PA married? I don't recall ever hearing about a wife and/or kids. I truly hope he isn't - I can't imagine what it would be like to be involved in this just because you married someone.



JMHO

 

[Friday Fan]

It might be a "job burnout".

It happens often in stressful professions: LE, doctors, teachers, etc.

Don't Americans say it is healthy to change a job every ten years?
I once read about it and the autor was certainly from the USA.

I don't think PA had job burnout. He had "retired" from a larger district in Laredo and had come home to a job where "he knew everyone"...As in, "Hi, I'm your friendly neighborhood school police officer. We're gonna have a presentation called Men in Blue, We Love You. I'm gonna teach you about police officers and what we do". MOO.. McGruff the Crime Dog - Wikipedia

https://www.ncpc.org/about-ncpc/mcgruff/mcgruff-visits/

Blah, blah etc...My kids are long grown, so I'm sure there is another program in place. McGruff was around when they were kids.

School policing is community policing mindset. It's not crime fighting, it's mostly crime prevention. Most infarctions that school police come across are drugs, fights, traffic violations, irate parents etc etc etc. Many of the violations involve juveniles etc.

I think he was slacking and wasn't prepared for a school shooting.

 

[ilovewings]

i will never understand this

That's because it is not understandable---

 

[Seattle1]

More disappointment.... I know it's going to take some time for me to read the July 17 Interim Report after finding blatant inaccuracies in just the first few pages!

It's inexcusable. Perhaps it's best to stick to video here where I can determine the facts for myself.

For example -- why is it being written as if the School District Police SPECIFICALLY warned the teacher (Mr. Reyes) that his door lock (Rm 111) did not work properly when it was Mr. Reyes that repeatedly advised school administration of his faulty door lock?


Also, it's long been reported that the shooter first entered classroom 112 - encountering Mrs. Garcia, telling her "goodnight," before shooting her dead, yet the report states the shooter probably entered room 111 first??

Cerrillo saw Ramos backing the teacher into the room and deliberately making eye contact with her — before saying “Goodnight” and blasting her to death, she told the network.


ETA: add link for quote

Texas school shooter Salvador Ramos told teacher ‘goodnight’

Miah Cerrill, one of the survivors of the shooting in Texas, divulged chilling details from Tuesday’s carnage at Robb Elementary School.

nypost.com

 

[PrairieWind]

The report seriously blamed the school/teachers. And it was English only to make it purposely hard for the parents to read.

The report slams law enforcement. Then moves on to detail the failures of the school. The school failures are EPIC! Should they be ignored?