TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #3

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Dotta said:
People usually seek online entertainment according to their tastes and interests.

Some choose videos with sweet kittens and puppies.

Some choose violent games.

And the question is - WHY?
Click to expand...
Personally I prefer puzzle games like Tetris.

I was at someone’s home a few years ago and their son, who was probably 12 -14 years old was playing a very violent video game on their large screen TV. There was literally blood dripping from the people who he was killing in the video game. It dripped and formed pools of blood on the floor.

When he shot someone in the head, their head exploded into blood and gore.

I said something like, “That is disturbing” and the boy said, “I’ve got the blood turned almost all the way down. You should see what it looks like when the blood setting is up all the way.”

He went on to say that he mom only lets him play if he keeps the blood level turned down.

I don’t know what the game was but it was incredibly disturbing to think that kids sit around and play video games with such an excessive amount of blood and gore. MIOO
 
Arkay said:
I tend to agree. I'm not a gamer at all (well, I played Pong when it came out when I was in college in the 70s) but I think there has to be some predisposition or sociopathy involved for someone to go from role-playing to a real life massacre.

If anyone else here is old enough, remember that Charles Manson allegedly found inspiration for mass murder in the Beatle's song "Helter Skelter."

www.history.com

How Charles Manson Took Sick Inspiration from the Beatles' 'Helter Skelter' | HISTORY

Paul McCartney said the song was about a playground slide, but Manson claimed the music incited a race war and murder.
www.history.com www.history.com

IMO those with a propensity for violence or those who are sociopathic find support not just in the gaming but in the chat. Here they find like-minded people who urge them on, just like Manson had all those groupies as his "family." Within these circles their antisocial and violent tendencies are applauded and they are heroes to their followers.

IMO the world would be better off if violent games were banned, as I see no good reason for them. But there are plenty of normal people who play them without causing harm, and I guess they are big moneymakers for the gaming industry, so my wish is a lost cause.

Jmo
Click to expand...
BBM - find support not just in the gaming but in the chat. Here they find like-minded people who urge them on

That's what I was getting at. They are struggling - whether its a dysfunctional home, failing in school, no friends, etc. - whatever. They get in these chats and feel validated - feel like they finally belong - they have people that like them (whether they do or not). Then when they stop and go back out into the "real world" - that all goes away and all those feelings of inadequacy come flooding back in - and it becomes too much.

Those chats can be brutal and frank and they laugh and joke about real world incidents - mass shootings, etc. I truly believe that this plays a big part in the psychopathy of a school shooter and the WHY he decides to take that road.

I'm glad I have some of you thinking about these games. A lot of people I talk to - either don't care or just don't want to know what our kids are doing (most on a daily basis). I know there is nothing that can really be done about it and that is what scares me. In my very humble opinion the world would be better off if they just didn't exist.


JMHO
 
Wise Old Owl said:
I'm glad I have some of you thinking about these games. A lot of people I talk to - either don't care or just don't want to know what our kids are doing (most on a daily basis). I know there is nothing that can really be done about it and that is what scares me. In my very humble opinion the world would be better off if they just didn't exist.
Click to expand...

IceIce9 said:
Personally I prefer puzzle games like Tetris.

I was at someone’s home a few years ago and their son, who was probably 12 -14 years old was playing a very violent video game on their large screen TV. There was literally blood dripping from the people who he was killing in the video game. It dripped and formed pools of blood on the floor.

When he shot someone in the head, their head exploded into blood and gore.

I said something like, “That is disturbing” and the boy said, “I’ve got the blood turned almost all the way down. You should see what it looks like when the blood setting is up all the way.”

He went on to say that he mom only lets him play if he keeps the blood level turned down.

I don’t know what the game was but it was incredibly disturbing to think that kids sit around and play video games with such an excessive amount of blood and gore. MIOO
Click to expand...


I agree and care @Wise Old Owl. And I’m not surprised @IceIce9. While people point to those who play violent video games and never act violently, one never knows who will. It can be the twelve year old Boy Scout from a nice family in my small town who stabbed his mother (killing her) and his sister (who survived). No history of violence, but had been playing violent video games and reading graphic violent novels for awhile.

kobi5.com

Ashland boy who murdered his mother sentenced - KOBI-TV NBC5 / KOTI-TV NBC2

MEDFORD, Ore. – An Ashland boy who stabbed his mother to death and injured his sister will remain in custody until he’s 25 years old, prosecutors said. The Jackson County District Attorney’s Office said before the stabbing occurred on January 10, 2017, the then-12-year-old boy had been “watching...
kobi5.com kobi5.com

While sleuthing his mother, I had discovered some of the violent games he played on a YouTube channel that was in his mother’s name, exactly like IceIce9 describes, and sent the link to the police chief. I doubt his Mom or Dad knew what he was doing, even though they were involved parents. They lived in a big house and kids can be sneaky. Tragedy ensued.

www.websleuths.com

GUILTY - OR - Pamela Wolosz, 52, killed, daughter injured, 12yo son charged, 10 Jan 2017

http://komonews.com/news/local/12-year-old-oregon-boy-arrested-in-moms-death-sisters-stabbing "Police responded to two 911 calls on Tuesday and found the boy's 52-year-old mother at the family's home in Ashland, the Mail Tribune (https://is.gd/DM8Bwd ) reported. The boy's sister was in stable...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
 
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Uvalde's fury builds one month after school massacre as probe reveals numerous failures
“He didn’t do his job. He left them in there,” a Robb Elementary School parent said of the Uvalde school district police chief's failure to prevent the massacre of 21 people.

www.google.com

Uvalde's fury builds one month after school massacre as probe reveals numerous failures

“He didn’t do his job. He left them in there,” a Robb Elementary School parent said of the Uvalde school district police chief's failure to prevent the massacre of 21 people.
www.google.com www.google.com

On Thursday, no amount of sun or humidity could persuade Robb Elementary School parent Michael Brown to retreat from his post outside the Uvalde County Courthouse, where he paced back-and-forth holding a sign calling for school district Police Chief Pete Arredondo to be fired.

He waved and smiled as passing cars honked, their drivers cheering him on with shouts and raised fists. Brown spent eight hours protesting on Wednesday and intended to do the same Thursday and likely Friday — anything to get the attention of officials.

“It’s disgusting — the lies, the betrayal. It just keeps getting worse,” Brown said.
 
www.google.com

Cross with etched steel hearts is delivered to Uvalde in memory of victims

Days after the mass shooting, Michael Collins said he felt called to build a cross for the Uvalde community
www.google.com www.google.com

Twenty-two names are etched onto metal hearts: 19 students, 2 teachers and the name of Irma Garcia’s husband, who died from a heart attack after the shooting. Collins also created a mail slot on the side for people to write letters to send to heaven.

“Seeing the cross is really awesome,” said Sylvia Garcia.

Garcia was visiting from San Antonio with her family. Her adopted children are from Uvalde and before they moved to San Antonio, Garcia said one of them was supposed to attend Robb Elementary School.

“It’s just really difficult to think that we could’ve lost her,” said Garcia.

She still gets emotional thinking about the ‘what if’ but she wanted to bring her kids to see the cross. She said they were related to Tess Mata and Xavier Lopez, victims of the mass shooting.
 
Here is a bit of history about Uvalde CISD. I doubt that this was a factor in SR's case. However, it does provide a cultural framework about the district and the town.

Uvalde sits at the southern edge of the Hill Country and the border of the South Texas plains.
The Hill Country was settled by Germans and Anglos. It includes touristy places like Kerrville, Fredericksburg, Wimberly etc. (Austin and New Braunfels are also included, but they are in the NE part. Uvalde is on the SW part)

South Texas plains are predominantly Hispanic. So Uvalde is a mix of both. It's not a Hill Country town, but it has some components. Game hunting is popular and there is a Texas Agrilife Extension (Uvalde Station, which is run by Texas A&M. They have trial gardens and stuff like that etc.

The Hill Country has always posed agricultural challenges because it's pure rock. However, its rivers and caves have it turned into a tourist haven. Also big game hunting has done well in the Hill Country. Crops do better in the South Texas plains where they actually have soil. Part of Uvalde is also in this region.



www.texastribune.org

Before the school shooting, Uvalde was known for a 1970 Hispanic student walkout. Its aging participants fear its spirit and memory are fading.

When a popular Hispanic teacher didn’t get his contract renewed at Robb Elementary School in 1970, hundreds of students decided to boycott school for weeks in what they called a stand against pervasive discrimination.
www.texastribune.org www.texastribune.org
 
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Friday Fan said:
Here is a bit of history about Uvalde CISD. I doubt that this was a factor in SR's case. However, it does provide a cultural framework about the district and the town.

Uvalde sits at the southern edge of the Hill Country and the border of the South Texas plains.
The Hill Country was settled by Germans and Anglos. It includes touristy places like Kerrville, Fredericksburg, Wimberly etc. (Austin and New Braunfels are also included, but they are in the NE part. Uvalde is on the SW part)

South Texas plains are predominantly Hispanic. So Uvalde is a mix of both. It's not a Hill Country town, but it has some components. Game hunting is popular and there is a Texas Agrilife Extension (Uvalde Station, which is run by Texas A&M. They have trial gardens and stuff like that etc.

The Hill Country has always posed agricultural challenges because it's pure rock. However, its rivers and caves have it turned into a tourist haven. Also big game hunting has done well in the Hill Country. Crops do better in the South Texas plains where they actually have soil. Part of Uvalde is also in this region.



www.texastribune.org

Before the school shooting, Uvalde was known for a 1970 Hispanic student walkout. Its aging participants fear its spirit and memory are fading.

When a popular Hispanic teacher didn’t get his contract renewed at Robb Elementary School in 1970, hundreds of students decided to boycott school for weeks in what they called a stand against pervasive discrimination.
www.texastribune.org www.texastribune.org
Click to expand...
Great article! Interesting history of Robb Elementary & the Mexican American fight for equality. Definitely important for this history to not be lost or ignored.

MOO
 
Wise Old Owl said:
A lot of people I talk to - either don't care or just don't want to know what our kids are doing (most on a daily basis).
Click to expand...

I feel your entire post nailed-it. Question about this portion: Are you talking to a particular subset of parents, and why do you think they don't care/want to know what their children do all day? (And is this opposed to wanting to know but being exhausted/overwhelmed and just not knowing how to do better?)

Is this something you see in your job, and did you notice a significant change in parents wanting to "know" at some point, or has it always been this way?
 
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Friday Fan said:
@Wise Old Owl
Thank you so much for your notes!
The hearing was much more than I expected.

Here is some information to fill in the gaps:

All students in Uvalde attend Robb Elementary (2-4th grade)
Instead of geographical boundaries, students are divided by grades amongst three elementary schools: PK-1, 2-4 and 5-6.(Without dwelling on details, this is probably a solution to a school segregation, civil rights lawsuit filed against Uvalde in the 1970's. ) All students attend the district's only middle school and high school.


I read early on that his grandmother worked at Robb.
www.nationalreview.com

Texas Shooter’s Grandmother Was Employed at Elementary School: Report | National Review

The admission establishes, for the first time, a link between Ramos and Robb Elementary School, where he killed 19 children and two teachers on May 24.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com

I assume he probably chose Robb because his grandmother worked there and it was closest to her home.
I also read that he asked one of his cousins about details of the school. Salvador Ramos asked cousin for details about school before Texas shooting

I also read that his grandmother and grandfather knew about one of the guns, however they ordered SR to get rid of it
www.thedailybeast.com

Grandma Told Shooter to Get Rid of Gun Before Uvalde Massacre

The woman Salvador Ramos shot in the face discovered a weapon a few days before his horrific attack and wanted it out of the house, sources say.
www.thedailybeast.com
Click to expand...
I’m glad he’s dead.
 
Wise Old Owl said:
Social Media (and its part in this school shooting - and, really almost every school shooting)

I haven't seen many replies about my post on this. I'm still grappling with how to present / discuss this aspect of the case - and IT IS an aspect of the case.

First, yesterday McCraw talked about the shooter's online activity. The girl in Germany he texted. And he was a gamer - participating in online gaming chats (where they talk to each other while playing). McCraw was asked about the "attitude" of some of the people they had interviewed that had interaction with SR in some of these chats. He said that some spoke willingly and admitted they while SR had seemed "kinda weird" - they didn't think anything of it really. And if they did - well they would just block him. But there were some whose attitude was more "closed off" - kinda like an I don't have to talk to you or its none of your business type attitude - not really willing to discuss the chats.

First, you have to know that these gaming platforms are not willing to "give out" information to authorities and almost always have to be subpoenaed to even get information on people they want to talk to. And these kids know this - they know they are "protected" and can act/say whatever they want without disclosure.

The gaming aspect, I think should be discussed first. I don't want to step on any toes here - I know A LOT of people play and for 98% of people - its just a game. Something to do. But for that other 1 - 2%, I believe its so much more.

These games are graphic - VERY GRAPHIC. I remember back when my son was a gamer (and he became a sniper in the army), I would go into his room to put laundry away or whatever and the minute I stepped in the room the first thing I would say is "turn the blood off". And yes, you can turn the blood off. They would make me sick to my stomach.

Acronyms you need to know - FPS - first person shooter, TPS - third person shooter, RPG - role playing game, K/D Ratio - kill / death ratio, Camper - (this means you just stay in one place and "pick off" people that come upon you - its also considered cheating among a lot of gamers).

The Sandy Hook shooter was a gamer.
The Parkland shooter was a gamer.
The Santa Fe shooter was a gamer.
The Michigan shooter (whose parents have been charged as well) was a gamer.
and now SR was a gamer.

While they are playing these games they talk to each other, laughing/joking about who they just killed or where someone they are looking for could be hiding and how they are going to "light them up" once they find them.

Some of them even wear depends so they don't have to get up to go to the bathroom - :eek: - I kid you not!

They become so obsessed they play for 2 days straight - non-stop. Not even to eat.

Its becoming a culture of very violent socialization. And yes, its how a lot of our youth are being socialized now. While chatting they talk about IRL shootings - mass shootings, the school shootings and they joke about how many the shooter took out and that "I could have gotten more" and even review the details pointing out where the shooter went wrong here or there.

IDK what the answer is here. I don't. But I have certainly seen that its a problem when it comes to these school shootings - maybe more oversight by the gaming companies to be able to spot "red flags" - I don't know. I do know it seems to glorify that being a good shooter wins you acclaim and accolades for having a high K/D ratio. And is that what we want as a society?

Please don't be offended by this if you are a gamer. I get it. They are just games like I said. Just like the guns - they are just guns - but a gun in the wrong hands.........................well, these games in the wrong hands.........

Kids today have been raised on "screens" - giving a toddler a phone to "play with" is the norm. So these kids have grown up with this and don't see the signs of where "its just a game" crosses over a line to become an "obsession that I want to carry out in real life".

Sorry for the length of this - but I do feel this really needs to be discussed when it comes to these school shootings because it has played a part - a big part.

Thoughts?


JMHO
Click to expand...
Excellent post. Thanks.
 
"Love the people in your life while you have them because you don’t know what the future holds for anyone,” class valedictorian Abigail Kone said in her address."

apnews.com

Graduating Uvalde High School class remembers slain children

UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Almost 300 high school seniors received their diplomas Friday in Uvalde in the shadow of the massacre of 19 elementary school students and two teachers one month earlier. The 288 red-gowned Uvalde High School seniors sat in 100-degree heat at the school stadium on the...
apnews.com apnews.com
 
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