TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #3

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Luna20 said:
What is the purpose of a lock on the outside of the classroom door?
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Seattle1 said:
Many schools designed in the 20th century featured classroom doors that locked from the outside, allowing the teacher or administrator to lock up as they left for the day, Todd Ferking explained in an email. Ferking is a design leader for DLR Group, an architecture firm that specializes in school design.

“Locking from inside the classroom may not have been a popular option out of concern that students could lock the teacher out,” he said.
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I'm going to pull things from the report that are new to me (us) - that I haven't seen before. I'll do it in sections - according to the report section.

First- the background of the shooter.

4 | T HE A TTACKER
The FBI interviewed a former girlfriend of the attacker who believed one of A.R.’s boyfriends sexually assaulted him at an early age, but that A.R. didn’t believe his outcry (AR is the mother)

The Committee heard testimony that he was reluctant to interact with peers because of a speech impediment. School records reveal that someone may have requested speech therapy for the attacker, and his later internet searches show he himself sought information on dyslexia. Ultimately, he received no special education services. (This is a violation of education law - that child should, most definitely have received required speech/language instruction/therapy)

The attacker’s fourth grade year at Robb Elementary School was significant to him. The shooting took place in his former fourth grade classroom, and he discussed bad memories of fourth grade with an acquaintance just weeks beforehand.

The attacker’s fourth grade teacher testified, Not only did she know the attacker from having been his teacher, but she was also in Robb Elementary’s fourth grade building, in a different classroom, at the time of the attack. This teacher told the Committee she knew the attacker needed extra help in her class because he claimed to be a victim of bullying. She testified that she met with the attacker’s mother, A.R., over the mother’s concerns about bullying, and that she had promised A.R. that her son would have a good fourth grade year. According to the teacher, it was a good year for the attacker. She said she believed her classroom was a safe place for him and that he made friends there.

Members of the attacker’s family, however, reported to the Committee their belief that other students still bullied the attacker throughout his fourth grade school year over his stutter, clothing, and short haircut. A cousin of the attacker said she was in the same fourth grade class with him, and she corroborated this version of his experience that year. She reported an incident in which another girl in the class tied the attacker’s shoelaces together, resulting in him falling over and injuring his face. The family also reported their belief that some teachers also picked on the attacker and his cousin.


You have to wonder if he wasn't also after HIS OWN 4th grade teacher - but she wasn't in the same room anymore. And for her to testify that "he had a good year" but a student in that room, sometime that year, tied his shoelaces together and he tripped and fell and hurt himself. Did she not recall that?

Plus that statement about teachers also picking on him and his cousin. I've seen this for myself. Teachers are human and they do things too. I've seen teachers bully students, bully other teachers and even bully parents.

Not that this makes any difference - but did it also play into this shooters descent into "his madness" (no- I do not think he was "mad" - insane. He was broken.

Also that report about him being abused by a former boyfriend of mom. Wow.

And if he gotten speech / language help?

Just some new insights into his background.
 
Luna20 said:
What is the purpose of a lock on the outside of the classroom door?
Click to expand...

I’m uncertain as to why this exterior door locking system became commonplace, but I can speak to my experience.

In NYC, in my school and in all the schools in which my friends taught, middle and high school students are not escorted through the hallways. When it’s between class periods or a student has gone to the bathroom, or is otherwise in the hallways, there is the potential for a child to enter an unlocked classroom. A child can steal something, go through the teacher’s record book, try to find test answers, etc.

We were NOT allowed to lock our classroom doors when we were in the room with students unless there was an emergency lockdown, etc. On the other hand, we MUST have the door locked when the classroom was empty, to prevent unauthorized entry.

When I was a rookie teacher I had collected money from some candy sale thing we had done. I forgot to lock the door, someone came in and stole the whole envelope with $140, and I had to make that up from my pocket.

Several years ago we had cameras installed throughout the building, which put an end to any mischief.

IMO the time is well past for a sea change. I’m no mechanic but there must be 100 other ways to lock a door that will keep children and teachers safe.

I only scanned the Uvalve report because it’s too painful.
 
Arkay said:
I’m uncertain as to why this exterior door locking system became commonplace, but I can speak to my experience.

In NYC, in my school and in all the schools in which my friends taught, middle and high school students are not escorted through the hallways. When it’s between class periods or a student has gone to the bathroom, or is otherwise in the hallways, there is the potential for a child to enter an unlocked classroom. A child can steal something, go through the teacher’s record book, try to find test answers, etc.

We were NOT allowed to lock our classroom doors when we were in the room with students unless there was an emergency lockdown, etc. On the other hand, we MUST have the door locked when the classroom was empty, to prevent unauthorized entry.

When I was a rookie teacher I had collected money from some candy sale thing we had done. I forgot to lock the door, someone came in and stole the whole envelope with $140, and I had to make that up from my pocket.

Several years ago we had cameras installed throughout the building, which put an end to any mischief.

IMO the time is well past for a sea change. I’m no mechanic but there must be 100 other ways to lock a door that will keep children and teachers safe.

I only scanned the Uvalve report because it’s too painful.
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There has to be a better system. Especially with misplacing the keys or not being able to quickly access to them.

This is one of the most horrific situations with the kids being in terror for a long period of time and for those who were bleeding out. It’s sickening to think about what their little minds were going through.

The younger age versus high school makes it worse as far as not grasping what was happening. Any age is horrific but there is just another dimension to the younger ones.
 
@Seattle 1
It’s not letting me reply to your #421 post. Thanks for attaching the quotes, I missed that article.
 
margarita25 said:
This has likely has been posted already, but in case it’s not, full conference:

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OMG

The press conference as a whole was just "eeehh". I do realize that they were only tasked with putting out the verifiable facts.
There were a couple of questions about PA but those last 2 minutes. That woman was hot and the room seemed to agree with her. They want PA's head on a stick! After this report - man o man - all the way up to Abbott - they need to be "brainstorming", researching, debating with each other the how's and what's - but if PA isn't charged with SOMETHING - the people of Texas are gonna be :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:



JMHO
 
Ok next section - Robb Elementary Facilities & Management & Policies for Locking Doors & Maintenance of Doors & Keys

Robb Elementary had a new principal beginning with the 2021–22 school year. (So it was her first year as a principal. She had been an asst principal for 3 yrs previous.)

Robb Elementary’s principal testified that the school’s west building has three exterior doors, two of which policy required to remain locked. (huh? wait - hold up - 3 exterior doors but only 2 were required to remain locked? How does that work? huh?)

The interior classroom doors also were required to remain closed and locked at all times.
Multiple witnesses reported to the Committee that people at Robb Elementary commonly left doors unlocked—as did people at all the other Uvalde CISD schools as well. Teachers would use rocks to prop open exterior doors, and they used door stops, wedges, and magnets to prevent interior door locks from latching. Due to a key shortage, Robb Elementary School substitute teachers often were instructed to use the “magnet system” to circumvent the locks in violation of school district policy.

Uvalde CISD Police Officer Adrian Gonzalez testified that when an officer was walking the floors and checking doors, the teachers would notify each other, and they would lock their doors. The officers would speak to the teachers and to their supervisors, and they tried to discourage the use of magnets. For some teachers, the inconveniences of keeping up with a key outweighed their perception of the risk of leaving doors unlocked.

At the time of the incident, all the doors in the building had been recently painted. (Funny, they had money and time to paint the doors but NOT FIX THE LOCKS OR GET MORE SPARE KEYS MADE????)

The director of maintenance and operations, Mr. Harrison, testified that people frequently lose, forget, or simply do not want to carry school keys. As a result, the custodians spend a lot of time opening doors. The maintenance and operations department has one employee who specializes in door repairs, but it relies on YouTube instruction videos, online diagrams, and the help of a local locksmith to work on locks. Harrison testified that unless there is a work order notifying his department of a problem, his employees do not regularly check doors. (So they don't even have a supplier / company that could contract with them? huh? relied on Youtube videos for instruction? really?)

Chief Arredondo kept a number of keys in his car, but he was not sure whether he had master keys for Robb Elementary. He knew he did not have a key to every building, though he testified that he had requested a complete set for himself. (again, the head honcho is not sure he has keys - & he kept them in his car? Uummm isn't that his job? Just what did this guy do all day every day?)

This was new information to me. But it just reaffirms to me what I kinda already figured. Especially the attitude and culture of the teachers and the keys stuff. I've seen it. I've had a few discussions with co-educators about their nonchalant attitude about locking their doors and having their keys on them at all times. Didn't surprise me.


JMHO
 
So according to the report Room 112 was locked. The shooter probably entered through Room 111 - that had a faulty lock but could be locked with extra effort.

Yes I blame LE for wasting so much time. I think that let injured that may have survived die. However, he fired over 100 rounds before LE arrived - thats on the school not being secured per their own policies.

Remember Sandy Hook took less than 10 minutes.

Parkland 6 minutes.

And 32 people died at Virgina Tech in 11 minutes.

The school should be held somewhat responsible.
 
Did his cousin who told him about the staggered lunches survive?

I think he wanted to do this the day before or whenever the senior class was there doing the walk through but something else hasn’t arrived yet.

My theory has been 112 was locked, 111 was broken and the middle doors between the two were unlocked because it was movie day. One of the teachers went to go lock it but that’s when he arrived and unfortunately shot her.

This has impacted me in so many ways.
 
Page 54 of the report.

when asked what he would have done differently had he known injured victims were in the classroom. Chief Arredondo responded to the Committee: “I guess, if I knew there was somebody in there, I would have—we probably would have rallied a little more, to say, ‘Okay, someone is in there.’"
 
I'm a special needs teacher at a small elementary school in Helsinki - we don't have active shooter drills, but we do practice twice a year evacuation in to the classrooms and then out of the building to the sports field. The doors are locked during the school day, but the school yard is open to the street with no fences or gates. Obviously a shooter is not a huge worry, we have had just 2 school shootings in the history of Finland (though even that is much by Nordic standards, I don't remember if there even have been other such attacks in the Nordic countries apart from these two).

Anyway, such shambles - you need a crystal clear chain of command and a competent and efficient situation commander leading and co-ordinating the response. Now there was an (even partly needless) abundance of personnel and agencies but no-one to lead and co-ordinate them. Prescious lifes were lost because of that. Such a tragedy.
 
page 63 of the report.

But Chief Arredondo does not consider himself to have assumed incident command. He explained to the Committee:
[W]hile you’re in there, you don’t title yourself ... .I know our policy states you’re the incident commander. My approach and thought was responding as a police officer. And so I didn’t title myself. But once I got in there and we took that fire, back then, I realized, we need some things. We’ve got to get in that door. We need an extraction tool. We need those keys. As far as ... I’m talking about the command part ... the people that went in, there was a big group of them outside that door. I have no idea who they were and how they walked in or anything. I kind of – I wasn’t given that direction.
***
you can always hope and pray that there’s an incident command post outside. I just didn’t have access to that. I didn’t know anything about that.
 
FeelMyHeat said:
page 63 of the report.

But Chief Arredondo does not consider himself to have assumed incident command.
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He was obviously totally out of his depth - a small, quite safe town, then out of the blue a disaster strikes, and he couldn't handle it. I mean, certainly an unimaginably tough challenge, but he was supposed to be a professional, they had drills in place, they had documented policies of how to act. I hate to pick on individuals in these huge disasters with so many people involved, but he did not assume command and it was a big step for all the other agencies to take it - though they should have. They were desperate and chaotic moments and they were not the first to arrive. I really hope that lessons will be learned about this.

And I won't even go to the politics of it- I personally think that there is something really wrong in a society where these tragedies are routine, that there is something deeply rotten there somewhere. A wealthy, modern Western society should surely be mostly free and safe from such insane violence and threat. But that's another discussion.
 
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