GUILTY TX - Zuzu Verk, 22, Alpine, 12 Oct 2016 #3 *Arrests*

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SavetheQueen said:
Wondering when we're going to see the additional arrests, and who all it will be.


*All statements are those of my own opinion unless stated.*
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I was just thinking about this. I was hoping some of the forensics from her autopsy would help in moving this case forward. I am trying tone patient - but man - I am concerned there could be a lack of evidence because of how long it took to find her body.
 
#justiceforzuzu Anyone know what a realistic timeframe is for autopsy results? I'm surprised no additional charges were made, and that we haven't heard much about the results yet.
 
Lillie.Bernal said:
#justiceforzuzu Anyone know what a realistic timeframe is for autopsy results? I'm surprised no additional charges were made, and that we haven't heard much about the results yet.
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Is it possible that the autopsy results have been completed but not released? It may be that the autopsy did not yield any information that could result in additional charges, as the links below suggest.

I tried to research how long an autopsy would take on skeletal remains and struck out. But all they really can observe are signs of injury. Injuries that could show up on bones involve blunt force trauma, gunshot, stabbing, and possibly asphyxiation (if the hyoid bone shows signs of breakage). That autopsy wouldn't take long. They would do a tox screen on the marrow, which isn't particularly definitive. That can take awhile though.

This link has more to do with identifying skeletal remains, but it makes the interesting point that skeletal remains found in shallow graves are often the result of an accidental death, covered up in a hurry. That's what I believe happened to ZuZu.
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/skeletal-remains.html

Toxicology done on the bone marrow is inconclusive for a death investigation because the timing of the drug ingestion cannot be determined.
http://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/tox/how.html

A damaged hyoid bone doesn't always mean asphyxiation.
http://journals.co.za/content/royalsa/60/2/EJC91877

My working theory for now is that the statement "Shut the f... up" preceded holding a hand or pillow over ZuZu's mouth and nose. Smothering wouldn't show up on a skeletal autopsy as a cause of death. My hope is that there is circumstantial evidence and witness testimony that will be enough to charge RF with manslaughter at least. I doubt they can prove premeditated murder if it was that and I really don't think it was. JMO for now, subject to change.
 
Lillie.Bernal said:
#justiceforzuzu Anyone know what a realistic timeframe is for autopsy results? I'm surprised no additional charges were made, and that we haven't heard much about the results yet.
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Couple of weeks for the exam, then dictation, compiling written and electronic reports. About 4-6 weeks for routine toxicology. Couple of extra weeks if they ordered something specific that isn't usually tested for.

We don't really know what was specifically found. We're assuming bones, but I'm betting that the portion of her body that was actually in the ground still was intact enough to run tissue tests, etc., as well as examine for bruising, injuries, and whatnot. The weather out here has been very mild this winter. We have had one day that was in the 90s, and a couple in the 80s, but they have been in the past couple of weeks. The arid climate out this way has a tendency for substantial preservation. And let's not forget that the caliber of law enforcement and other professionals involved in the case is above par. I have no doubts that the truth will be known.


*All statements are those of my own opinion unless stated.*
 
Been checking this thread several times a day and so am going with the premise "No news, is good news" Hoping that CE has starting talking and LE are piecing things together. At least that's my hope.
 
steelman said:
Naaaa....RF got her out of his house the night this happened. All the noise and stomping around that the neighbors heard was a by-product of him trying to clean up the crime scene and get her loaded into his vehicle. These neighbors of his were trying to sleep, but he kept waking them up with all of the noise he was making. If they had looked out of their window at just the right moment, I'm sure they would have seen him loading something wrapped in a blanket or a sheet into his vehicle.........something pretty heavy and cumbersome. His neighbors simply weren't looking outside, or in the right direction, at the right moment.

I think he took her off and dumped her that night......"somewhere". Only after he got back into town did he meet up with CE and start to formulate a plan on what should be done next. That's when they gathered up all the digging supplies, borrowed the pickup, got the painters drop cloths, and headed out to do a more thorough job of hiding the crime. Somewhere along the way, CE must have had something in his vehicle that made him gravely concerned about trace evidence and touch evidence, thus his annoying insistence that his buddy detail his car in the days afterwards.

There's always the possibility that she was never moved again. The two of them showed up together in order to try and hide the crime. Where she was found may have been the original dumping spot that RF chose. Then again, it may not have been. They may have picked her up in one place and transported her many miles away to a more secluded area. CE knows all the answers. Whether he decides to offer it up or not is left to be seen.
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In my experience of domestic violence or people that snap or rage on someone, they just go at it slinging and hitting. Not necessarily grabbing someone up and choking then right off the cuff.

I suspect he injured her pretty bad at first. Then he had to deal with what he did.
All the noises could have been him trying to tie her up somehow to convince her he was sorry and she should forgive him. Either this plan went arwy and he snapped again doing more damage, or she struggled so badly she injured herself more.

She could have been alive for some time and bled out internally or a broken rib perforated her lung, or her head hit something causing a hemorrhage. Sorry to be so graphic. Any a number of things could have occurred. The time line definitely points toward things being drug out for some reason.

He may have thought, let's give her something to sleep it off and then she just never woke up. It's kind of hard to convince anyone that it was an accident if you beat her up beforehand.
Just throwing stuff out there.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
steelman said:
Naaaa....RF got her out of his house the night this happened. All the noise and stomping around that the neighbors heard was a by-product of him trying to clean up the crime scene and get her loaded into his vehicle. These neighbors of his were trying to sleep, but he kept waking them up with all of the noise he was making. If they had looked out of their window at just the right moment, I'm sure they would have seen him loading something wrapped in a blanket or a sheet into his vehicle.........something pretty heavy and cumbersome. His neighbors simply weren't looking outside, or in the right direction, at the right moment.

I think he took her off and dumped her that night......"somewhere". Only after he got back into town did he meet up with CE and start to formulate a plan on what should be done next. That's when they gathered up all the digging supplies, borrowed the pickup, got the painters drop cloths, and headed out to do a more thorough job of hiding the crime. Somewhere along the way, CE must have had something in his vehicle that made him gravely concerned about trace evidence and touch evidence, thus his annoying insistence that his buddy detail his car in the days afterwards.

There's always the possibility that she was never moved again. The two of them showed up together in order to try and hide the crime. Where she was found may have been the original dumping spot that RF chose. Then again, it may not have been. They may have picked her up in one place and transported her many miles away to a more secluded area. CE knows all the answers. Whether he decides to offer it up or not is left to be seen.
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I like your posts, but why borrow a pickup once the body was already moved. I think that maybe they borrowed the pickup next night to move the body after buying the drop clothes. RF drove her body to the site and buried it while CE dumped all the cleanup material in dumpsters. Would not need two people to dig shallow grave.
 
I think he may have borrowed the PU because it likely had the tools needed to dig. There was speculation about 2 people digging because one side of the grave was deeper
 
TinaG said:
I think he may have borrowed the PU because it likely had the tools needed to dig. There was speculation about 2 people digging because one side of the grave was deeper
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I figured one side was shallower because of roots he could not get through. Just seems strange to borrow a pickup in the middle of the night to transport tools. Looking at the timeline it appeared they went to his house the next evening also. I figured this was to do final cleanup and move the body. I could be wrong, but this is my gut feeling reading the movement of them at the times they moved around. Would also mean they left her body in the wild for a whole day with animals and environment. Seems needing plastic painters drop cloth was to keep from blood and other evidence from being transferred to transport vehicle.
 
The ground in that area is extreeeeeeeeemely dense, rocky, hard to dig. I've put a shovel in ground there, almost like concrete.
In Sunny Glenn, even w a Bobcat frontloader, digging a two foot trench for water or electric is slooooow going. JM2cts.

{ETA: Forgot to note AFAIK, most or all West TX ground is hard like that. Not just Alpine & Sunny Glenn. Anyone using a shovel, trying to dig a grave anywhere in Brewster County would be in for a workout.}
 
al66pine said:
The ground in that area is extreeeeeeeeemely dense, rocky, hard to dig. I've put a shovel in ground there, almost like concrete.
In Sunny Glenn, even w a Bobcat frontloader, digging a two foot trench for water or electric is slooooow going. JM2cts.


{ETA: Forgot to note AFAIK, most or all West TX ground is hard like that. Not just Alpine & Sunny Glenn. Anyone using a shovel, trying to dig a grave anywhere in Brewster County would be in for a workout.}
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Agreed. Even with proper tools, it wasn't a quick and easy dig.


I don't think RF had a body with him when he borrowed the truck the first time (early a.m.). If they didn't get drop cloths until 20+ hours after she died (assuming she died in the 12am-3am hours), she must have been left in his apt and they needed the plastic to wrap her up before transporting.


When he borrowed the truck initially, he might have just intended to borrow the shovel...but decided it was faster to take the whole truck just in case he needed anything else. And maybe he felt that asking to borrow the truck was less suspect than asking for a shovel (or trying to sneak around bil's yard looking for one at that time of day).


Timeline recap...
Weds early a.m...RF borrows BIL's truck
*This was the bil's statement on October affidavit. Somewhere, I saw it was 6am. But don't remember the source to confirm that.


Weds 6:15a, neighbor of Zuzu saw her dog running loose wearing green collar near Zuzu's home
....RF stopped and let the dog out, then went out to start digging.
early a.m....RF starts digging the grave but couldn't finish before sunrise. He only had an hour or two of darkness. During the course of the day, he enlists CE to help him.


Later that night, CE's gps timeline Weds 10/12 (February affidavit):
9p...RF's sister's house
9p-10p...CE & RF at Guzzi Up (bar/restaurant)....wtf, btw
10:15p...Dollar General, drop cloths
10:20-10:40p...RF's sis/bil house
*BIL stated that sometime after 10pm on Wed. 10/12, RF borrowed his truck
10:40-12:00a...CE gps at RF's house


So...
CE picked up RF at sis/bil's house and went to dinner (so irritating)...
then picked up drop cloths...
stopped back and borrowed truck again "to move the table they were painting" (that was probably the initial story RF told his sis..."see, we even have drop cloths")...
RF (and possibly CE) used the truck and tools again that night to finish digging/burying.


Warrant says CE's car was at RF's house from 10:40p - 12:00a.
I really doubt CE allowed RF to transport the body in his car. He may have helped him wrap her up and carry her out. He may have also left his car at RF's apt while they went out to finish the burial in the bil's truck.


If RF was able to successfully dig the grave on his first trip...the 80 minutes CE's car gps was at RF's house would be just barely enough time to wrap her body in plastic, get her out of the apartment, drive out to the grave, bury, cover the hole and return. The drive from his apt to the grave is 15-20 minutes each way. That leaves them about 45 minutes to do everything else.


Remaining Weds pm/Thurs am timeline...
12a - 12:20a CE at dumpsters
12:20a CE at RF's sister's house (pinky swear to silence?)
12:30a CE at his friend's house acting nervous
 
kuriouser said:
....
I don't think RF had a body with him when he borrowed the truck the first time (early a.m.). If they didn't get drop cloths until 20+ hours after she died (assuming she died in the 12am-3am hours), she must have been left in his apt and they needed the plastic to wrap her up before transporting.
When he borrowed the truck initially, he might have just intended to borrow the shovel...but decided it was faster to take the whole truck just in case he needed anything else. And maybe he felt that asking to borrow the truck was less suspect than asking for a shovel (or trying to sneak around bil's yard looking for one at that time of day).
So...
CE picked up RF at sis/bil's house and went to dinner (so irritating)...
then picked up drop cloths...
stopped back and borrowed truck again "to move the table they were painting" (that was probably the initial story RF told his sis..."see, we even have drop cloths")...
RF (and possibly CE) used the truck and tools again that night to finish digging/burying.

Warrant says CE's car was at RF's house from 10:40p - 12:00a.
I really doubt CE allowed RF to transport the body in his car. He may have helped him wrap her up and carry her out. He may have also left his car at RF's apt while they went out to finish the burial in the bil's truck.

If RF was able to successfully dig the grave on his first trip...the 80 minutes CE's car gps was at RF's house would be just barely enough time to wrap her body in plastic, get her out of the apartment, drive out to the grave, bury, cover the hole and return. The drive from his apt to the grave is 15-20 minutes each way. That leaves them about 45 minutes to do everything else....
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^sbm bbm Thanks for your response. And the timeline refresher.

Bolded ^ points that caught my attn. Agreeing w them as insightful.

But wondering - if CE did not allow Zuzu's remains to be transported in his car (a Mustang, right?), why washe so insistent about trying to get his car washed and/or detailed? Was he thinking about poss blood transfer/DNA transfer to him, his clothing, then to car interior? Or something else? Thx in adv.
 
al66pine said:
^sbm bbm Thanks for your response. And the timeline refresher.

Bolded ^ points that caught my attn. Agreeing w them as insightful.

But wondering - if CE did not allow Zuzu's remains to be transported in his car (a Mustang, right?), why washe so insistent about trying to get his car washed and/or detailed? Was he thinking about poss blood transfer/DNA transfer to him, his clothing, then to car interior? Or something else? Thx in adv.
Click to expand...

Could have been worried about trace evidence from things he or RF touched. Or the lingering smell of guilt and fear. Of course, maybe RF convinced him that his car would be safe with enough plastic drop cloths in his trunk. After dinner, etc...they stopped at RF's sister's house between 10:20-10:40. It's only my assumption that's when RF borrowed the truck. Maybe they just stopped to get RF's apartment keys and confirm permission to borrow truck or whatever.


10:40p - 12:00a they were at RF's house. CE helped get her out, maybe did a little cleanup, etc.
*Since no forensic evidence was found in any vehicle, I wonder if RF kept her in the tub until this time. And they just got really lucky keeping CE's car and BIL's truck free of evidence with the plastic drop cloths and whatever else they used.


12:00a -12:20a stopped at dumpsters to get rid of some minor evidence?
(clothes, towels, etc. that they may have washed but still wanted to get rid of)


12:20-12:30a CE dropped RF off at his sister's house ...and RF went out to dig and bury her himself.
*In earlier affidavit, CE's friend said that he asked if RF could stop by later. Could CE have been just hanging out there for his own alibi along with staying around just in case RF needed more help?


CE's timeline doesn't really give him a lot of time to go dig a hole. I'm not convinced he knew where she was buried. RF may have implicated him enough to keep him quiet, but didn't let him know where he buried her.

*I wish I could bold stuff, but this website and my iPad don't cooperate well!
 
Just checking in... was hoping some of the others had been arrested by now.
 
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Got these in the mail. [emoji172][emoji172][emoji172]
 
kuriouser said:
Could have been worried about trace evidence from things he or RF touched. Or the lingering smell of guilt and fear. Of course, maybe RF convinced him that his car would be safe with enough plastic drop cloths in his trunk. After dinner, etc...they stopped at RF's sister's house between 10:20-10:40. It's only my assumption that's when RF borrowed the truck. Maybe they just stopped to get RF's apartment keys and confirm permission to borrow truck or whatever.


10:40p - 12:00a they were at RF's house. CE helped get her out, maybe did a little cleanup, etc.
*Since no forensic evidence was found in any vehicle, I wonder if RF kept her in the tub until this time. And they just got really lucky keeping CE's car and BIL's truck free of evidence with the plastic drop cloths and whatever else they used.


12:00a -12:20a stopped at dumpsters to get rid of some minor evidence?
(clothes, towels, etc. that they may have washed but still wanted to get rid of)


12:20-12:30a CE dropped RF off at his sister's house ...and RF went out to dig and bury her himself.
*In earlier affidavit, CE's friend said that he asked if RF could stop by later. Could CE have been just hanging out there for his own alibi along with staying around just in case RF needed more help?


CE's timeline doesn't really give him a lot of time to go dig a hole. I'm not convinced he knew where she was buried. RF may have implicated him enough to keep him quiet, but didn't let him know where he buried her.

*I wish I could bold stuff, but this website and my iPad don't cooperate well!
Click to expand...

This timeline makes sense with the timing of their movement. I totally agree...
 
I'm wondering what the hold up is on adding more charges. I can only imagine how much stress all of this waiting is adding to the poor Verk family.
 
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