TY says that Terri seemed "defensive."

[GrainneDhu]

What do you know? I think you're smart, you know a lot! heck, you're a websleuther!!!
Under the circumstances you gave me, I would advise her that she cannot testify at all. if she argued passionately, I'd have to hear what she had to say, what her reasoning is and whether she can explain everything to my satisfaction. I would examine evidence like cell phone pings, via subpoena and see if it all adds up. I would depose the landscape guy, etc. But, I am not a criminal attorney. There are cases of potential overlap like civil DV cases where a criminal DV case is pending, or quasi-criminal contempt, but nothing like a hardcore criminal case and I've heard that defense attorneys do not ask their clients if they are innocent to have anything to hide. But I demand the truth from my clients so it is hard for me to say what would be the right thing to do or not in such a case. It is not my expertise.
I tell you what though, if my baby was taken from me, I'd fire any attorney who told me I could not fight to get her back. Unless I was guilty of something real, real bad. Yes, people listen to their attorneys but not when they tell them to jump off a bridge, you know what I mean?

BBM

Your entire post makes sense and thank you for answering it. I agree with your sense of why she isn't fighting to get baby K back, too. I'm trying to get a feel for what reasonable doubts might be hovering out there to be invoked, if you see what I mean.

I did not realise she could get copies of the cell phone pings via subpoena before she was charged. Could she get copies of other stuff, like witness reports, via subpoena?

Could her attorney get started on a potential defence now, rather than needing to wait for charges and discovery?

 

[Donjeta]

This may be getting OT a bit but if Terri can't contest now because she would have to disclose something ugly how does it become any easier later on to disclose the same ugly? Does she get to contest later without disclosing the ugly stuff?

More on topic, I do think that I trust Tony's assessment of Terri's behavior a bit more than some other people's. Granted, he's not an investigator in this case but he's seen his share of guilty people and innocent people and it may have taught him to read some clues.

On top of that, although he is not an outsider and is very much a family member I think he may have a slightly more objective attitude than Kaine or Desiree because there might be some jealousy and old strife and bitterness involved but it's not Tony personally that Terri has attempted to hire a murderer for, he wouldn't have reason to feel jealousy about Terri and I think he probably wouldn't have had as much interaction with Terri as Desiree had, calling about Kyron's business and if she's a liar she probably would have been lying more to Kaine and Desiree than Tony.

He might have negative feelings on behalf of family members but not so much for his own sake for direct affronts against him personally, especially if he entered Desiree's life some time after the acute crisis of Kaine and Desiree's separation and the custody issues with Kyron had settled. Kyron is not his biological child either although he surely loves him very much.

IMO it's not possible for a family member to be an outsider in such a situation but there are some who are more enmeshed in an emotional tangle than others, IYKWIM.

All supposition and IMO only though, I've no confirmation that this is the case. It just seems generally likely, but their particular circumstances might be different.

 

[Susan10]

<<BLUSH!>>

Truly, I have never really understood people who go to the trouble of finding a really good attorney and then don't follow that attorney's advice.

Some lawyers, yeah, it does seem kinda like a gamble as to whether their advice would be any good or not but most are way above that level.

My guess is that an attorney can be top-notch, but if you have a personality-disordered client who believes he/she is smarter than anyone else, that client will do whatever he/she wants because after all, he/she knows better and is smarter than even the attorney.
i.e., "Yea, yea, I hear you, but I'm not listening."

 

[Mylou]

TY said that TH was defensive from the beginning, perhaps with family, but on June 5 LE said publicly that the family was nothingless then completely co-operative.

 

[keeponsearching]

TY said that TH was defensive from the beginning, perhaps with family, but on June 5 LE said publicly that the family was nothingless then completely co-operative.

This really makes me wonder what went on with the four of them behind closed doors. Tony is a detective but he is also emotionally involved. I do take what he is saying seriously. But I really want both sides. Actually, I could go for all 3 sides right about now, theirs, hers and the truth, how the heck will we get the truth.

 

[redkatrampant]

This really makes me wonder what went on with the four of them behind closed doors. Tony is a detective but he is also emotionally involved. I do take what he is saying seriously. But I really want both sides. Actually, I could go for all 3 sides right about now, theirs, hers and the truth, how the heck will we get the truth.

I always say that the truth is in the middle. I too wonder want went on. That would answer a lot of questions. BTW TH being defensive does not surprise me. It goes along with everything else we have seen her do.

 

[Mylou]

This really makes me wonder what went on with the four of them behind closed doors. Tony is a detective but he is also emotionally involved. I do take what he is saying seriously. But I really want both sides. Actually, I could go for all 3 sides right about now, theirs, hers and the truth, how the heck will we get the truth.

I agree, I can see her being defensive with family if she has 3 people all questioning her at once, which is quite possible, then to add it seems she wasn't particularly trusted, Im sure she had always felt that tension.

 

[watchful_eye]

Originally posted by Sarah7855:

Well, I look at it like this. If I were in that position (of course I'd no doubt be innocent because I'd never dream of hurting my child or anyone else for that matter), I'd let anyone have basically anything they wanted, any piece of information they wanted, be in my house at any hour they wanted, anything if it helped get my child home. Not only that, but I'd be too panicked and upset and beside myself to even be able to think about being defensive! That, IMO, shows that Terri was (and still is, IMO) thinking of herself first, not Kyron. I think she was resenting the upcoming intrusion into her personal life because she had something to hide. What would be a good reason to resist an investigation into your stepson's disappearance? I can't think of one, honestly. JMO.

AGREEEEEED!!

Take my damn blood if you have to! Do whatever it takes to help keep the investigation process running smoothly.

Did Terri really think the cops weren't going to look into the family? DUHHH. It happens in every case, and this day in age, with parents killing their kids, LE pretty much turns to families first to help solve a crime/elliminate suspects/POIs. For someone who watches CSI all the time, she should know!

Additionally, I think TYoung's afterthought was a little too late. If he's LE, you'd think he would act on Terri's first response, right off the bat. Why hesitate or miss it all together?? I'm not blaming him, I just think it's weird for LE to miss something that blatant. Well, they still have her under their radar, so it's all good anyhow---rather than Tony have mis-judged her behavior, and then she skipped town or something.

I think it's also weird how when this case first broke, the family was so united and Kaine kept saying that Terri was cooporating. Now, apparently, she never was. And frankly, if Desiree was so suspecting of Terri, why did she hide it?? I dunno. So much confusion, so many lies.

Poor Kyron, stuck in the middle of it all.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Additionally, I think TYoung's afterthought was a little too late. If he's LE, you'd think he would act on Terri's first response, right off the bat. Why hesitate or miss it all together?? I'm not blaming him, I just think it's weird for LE to miss something that blatant.

I believe there is an adjustment period... it takes time to process the possibility that someone close to you can do something you would have never imagined them capable of doing.

 

[watchful_eye]

Makes sense, helpfulcharlie.

 

[Donjeta]

TY said that TH was defensive from the beginning, perhaps with family, but on June 5 LE said publicly that the family was nothingless then completely co-operative.

I don't think that defensive and cooperative are mutually exclusive opposites in this context. Cooperation refers to actions, ie. you sit down with LE and answer their questions and do what they ask. Defensiveness is an attitude that you take about it. You can be one, both or neither.

 

[wondering1]

This may be getting OT a bit but if Terri can't contest now because she would have to disclose something ugly how does it become any easier later on to disclose the same ugly? Does she get to contest later without disclosing the ugly stuff?

sbm

I made a comment like that, I think. I don't know if that's what you are referring to, but I'll tell you what I meant anyway

Because if she only discloses it in the event she is cleared or acquitted, the ugly can't be used against her in the criminal trial. And I think the potential for a criminal trial remains a possibility in her mind and the mind of her attorney, maybe even if she DIDN'T do it. I think an affair and whatever else ugly there might be out there would go to character/credibility in a criminal trial, but after the trial is over and she is acquitted or cleared, the ugly wouldn't be sufficient to prevent her from getting some parenting time in the context of the RO. jmoo

 

[Mylou]

I don't think that defensive and cooperative are mutually exclusive opposites in this context. Cooperation refers to actions, ie. you sit down with LE and answer their questions and do what they ask. Defensiveness is an attitude that you take about it. You can be one, both or neither.

You lost me. You can be defensive with family members and still co-operate with LE.

 

[TopTop]

In fact you could be very defensive yet very co-operative and truthful. I know people who are defensive yet honest most of the time.

ETA: I don't think TH is being co-operative or honest, but theoretically she can be.

 

[TopTop]

Ugh. I just went back to the first thread when Kyron first disappeared. Within about 10 posts we were asking many of the same questions we are still asking.

We have learned so much of everyone's dirty laundry yet we barely know anymore of what happened to little Kyron. I feel like this has become a soap opera and Kyron has almost become a minor character.

How could someone (TH or anyone else) take a child out of a school with dozens of people around and over a month later we still do not know where he is.

 

[Donjeta]

You lost me. You can be defensive with family members and still co-operate with LE.

Yes and you can even be defensive with LE while still cooperating.

So IMO there is no conflict whatsoever in Tony saying Terri seemed defensive and LE saying everybody cooperated. (I thought you implied a conflict with your "but"). LE didn't say anything about how defensive anybody appeared while cooperating.

 

[gitana1]

BBM

Your entire post makes sense and thank you for answering it. I agree with your sense of why she isn't fighting to get baby K back, too. I'm trying to get a feel for what reasonable doubts might be hovering out there to be invoked, if you see what I mean.

I did not realise she could get copies of the cell phone pings via subpoena before she was charged. Could she get copies of other stuff, like witness reports, via subpoena?

Could her attorney get started on a potential defence now, rather than needing to wait for charges and discovery?

Well, it's all relevant now to the civil case because the reason for the RO application is "probable cause" that she had something to do with Kyron's disappearance. So in the civil context she could subpoena those records.

 

[gitana1]

I believe there is an adjustment period... it takes time to process the possibility that someone close to you can do something you would have never imagined them capable of doing.

Yeah, I remember Laci Peterson's family backing SP 100% when a lot of people already had their doubts. They saw things they later said alarmed them but in public, they supported him until the affair came out. Laci's mom explained it as that doubting scott would mean Laci was probably dead.

 

[Mylou]

Why hasn't TH been arrested for obstruction ?

 

[Kat]

Why hasn't TH been arrested for obstruction ?

Someone else can answer this much better than me Mylou but I'll take a stab.

1. There isn't evidence of a crime. Kyron is missing, he hasn't been found.

2. There isn't evidence of her commiting a crime. (They didn't arrest her for the murder for hire because they had insuffient evidence).

3. It isn't against the law to not speak to LE, to not comply to most of their requests, to refuse to be interviewed. It isn't even against the law to lie to an LE officer. (unless she lied to FBI).

Like I said someone will come along and whip out an excellent explanation. I only took a stab in the dark