UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

[Jaycee 1992]

I agree with so much you say. The challenges, for me, in some aspects, however, are:

I agree that the killer using some tactic (with the envelope) to make sure this was the correct AW makes sense. It is very easy to imagine an earlier example along the lines of "Looking for a Paul who stayed at your hotel": AW is then "Positively ID'd" through acknowledging he once had a hotel. The problem is that if it was something innocuous like that, why have the Police never said what was discussed (as they clearly know some of it at least?) It makes sense this might have been something that did happen, but there are still questions.

According to reports AW had no clue what was going on but had a reason to ask his wife if she did? Was this just chance? Did he have a reason to think so?

Money laundering: was AW unwittingly involved? If he was not, (but actively so) would someone with the capacity to hide their underhanded dealings not perhaps 'attempt' to guarantee their safety by keeping a dossier somewhere safe for use if he was threatened?

Thanks for the positive feedback again, you raise some more good points in terms of why the police haven't released more details as to what was said on the doorstep. I'm guessing some details have to be kept back for specialist knowledge, incase there is a break through in the case and they need to conceal some of the evidence they have if they were to ever prosecute someone for the murder.

Remember the only person that knows the exact details of the conversation that took place would have been the detectives, Veronica, the killer and ofcourse alistair himself.

The only reason the information was released to the public with regards to the envelope was because of an armchair detective who sent a dossier to a criminologist (David Wilson) who released the dossier to the public. Shortly afterwards the police confirmed that this was infact true, and pleaded with the members of the public to come forward if they had any information with regards to the envelope that could help assist them.

I also think given the nature in which Alistair was killed the police tried protecting Veronica, and didn't want to go public with what she had told them incase she became a target herself from the people involved.
I personally think at the time it was the right thing to do but as the years moved on and the case began to dry up they definitely should have released the information about the envelope sooner.

I doubt Alistair wilson would have had a dossier lying by his side, had he been involved with money laundering, he would have been prosecuted straight away for his involvement.
I think had he been involved in such activity he would have washed his hands with it completely, and tried his best not to leave a trail of evidence that would have fallen back to him.
This is why I think had such deals taken place it would have been of the books.

The police have only ever stated that Alistair was bewildered by the visit and told his wife that he didn't know the gunman. With so much little information given to us by the police all we can do is speculate with what happened on the doorstep, which is deeply frustrating.
I hope Alistairs killer and the people involved will one day be prosecuted for his murder, he was a fantastic father who had so much more to live for. For his sons to lose there Dad in such a brutal way, I hope one day they find closure even it means them finding out things they didn't want to hear about there Dad.

 

[jambers]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>- there are many variables that could have happened initially (at the door):

1) Alistair taking the envelope: Perhaps the killer handed it to him immediately and Alistair just took it before any long preamble and happened to hold on to it

2) It is possible the killer intended to do the deed immediately but for some reason did not - the question there is did the killer wait 'just in case' Alistair came back?

 

[Jaycee 1992]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> - there are many variables that could have happened initially (at the door):

1) Alistair taking the envelope: Perhaps the killer handed it to him immediately and Alistair just took it before any long preamble and happened to hold on to it

2) It is possible the killer intended to do the deed immediately but for some reason did not - the question there is did the killer wait 'just in case' Alistair came back?

I think the killer was confident that Alistair was going to return to the doorstep, however i don't think the killer anticipated that Alistair was going to go back inside and leave him standing there. but the killer decided to hold of until he came back out. This gave him more time to assess his surroundings, to make sure the coast was clear. He most likely discreetly positioned the gun in his hand with the trigger at the ready, preparing himself to open fire for when Alistair returned to the front door.
Your right though there are so many angles you can come at this, and so much probabilities that could have taken place

 

[Jaycee 1992]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

The annoying thing is Police Scotland won't release any information into the public domain about Alistair's financial position, they remain tight lipped when asked if Alistair had been in debt or had any suspicious large sum of money paid into his account. The police simply respond by saying "this is still a live investigation and we can't comment on that".
I think another subject that has to be highlighted is that Alistair's attempt to run his house as a Guest house/ small restaurant failed as a buisness, at the time Veronica's brother was also working as chef for them and was assisting them in trying to sustain there buisness.
Was Alistair feeling the pressure as the profit turnover wasn't doing well? and he didn't want to fail in paying his staff members who were also his family? . Did he source a large sum of money from somebody in order to temporarily fix the problem? The upkeep of the house would have came at a cost aswell, not to mention other utility bills.
Also Alistair had a surveyor into value his property shortly before his death as he was considering selling his house as he was wanting to downsize, there seemed to be alot going on in Alistair's life, and i definitely get the sense that he was feeling alot of pressure.

 

[Jaycee 1992]

I am of the opinion that nothing can be ruled out (or in) in search of a 'motive' for AW's murder. In terms of money laundering, it is easy to see how the results of this hypothetical money laundering by AW could go undiscovered given Police ineptitude and also what happened at the bank. While we will never know the full extent of such criminal endeavours within the banking industry, can we possibly draw any conclusions from the following:

1) The more people are involved in (and know about) something, the higher the chances someone will slip up or 'spill the beans'
2) The longer an activity runs, the higher the chance of discovery
3) The more greed involved, the higher the chance of slipping up

As far as we know, no analysis (too late?) has shown anything untoward (if a proper analysis ever happened - and if no forensic accountant was involved....)

Given the above it is perfectly possible a laundering scheme could have taken place which is now untraceable.

Yet (and this is my personal view) - from what we are told about AW, it seems hard to match him to some long-term dodgy dealings (although this does not mean he definitely wasn't) - and he had to have been murdered for something.

I wonder if any special analysis of AWs personal banking was done at any time? Assuming he was paid to launder money, where did AW hid this income? It would not take too long to compute the familys outgoings vs income and any high surplus would surely stand out?

Could AW have had a seperate 'unofficial' account now perhaps not having been used since 2004?

As you highlight if the Police did not appoint specialists to look into this, are we in a position that it is the fact 'accounts' have not been drilled, rather than there being nothing to find that is the issue?

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. However, the available (General) evidence, circumstantially at least says AW wasn't 'up to' anything criminal or at least not to be noticed!

The annoying thing is Police Scotland won't release any information into the public domain about Alistair's financial position, they remain tight lipped when asked if Alistair had been in debt or had any suspicious large sum of money paid into his account. The police simply respond by saying "this is still a live investigation and we can't comment on that".
I think another subject that has to be highlighted is that Alistair's attempt to run his house as a Guest house/ small restaurant failed as a buisness, at the time Veronica's brother was also working as chef for them and was assisting them in trying to sustain there buisness.
Was Alistair feeling the pressure as the profit turnover wasn't doing well? and he didn't want to fail in paying his staff members who were also his family? . Did he source a large sum of money from somebody in order to temporarily fix the problem? The upkeep of the house would have came at a cost aswell, not to mention other utility bills.
Also Alistair had a surveyor into value his property shortly before his death as he was considering selling his house as he was wanting to downsize, there seemed to be alot going on in Alistair's life, and i definitely get the sense that he was feeling alot of pressure.
But yes I totally agree with you that there is so many angles that you can come at this at.
I really appreciate your feedback and input that you have given into this case, I'm glad we can have this open conversation about what we think could have happened. It's such an intriguing case.
I really hope that the police will release more information within the near future, they have absolutely nothing to lose now.

 

[jambers]

The annoying thing is Police Scotland won't release any information into the public domain about Alistair's financial position, they remain tight lipped when asked if Alistair had been in debt or had any suspicious large sum of money paid into his account. The police simply respond by saying "this is still a live investigation and we can't comment on that".
I think another subject that has to be highlighted is that Alistair's attempt to run his house as a Guest house/ small restaurant failed as a buisness, at the time Veronica's brother was also working as chef for them and was assisting them in trying to sustain there buisness.
Was Alistair feeling the pressure as the profit turnover wasn't doing well? and he didn't want to fail in paying his staff members who were also his family? . Did he source a large sum of money from somebody in order to temporarily fix the problem? The upkeep of the house would have came at a cost aswell, not to mention other utility bills.
Also Alistair had a surveyor into value his property shortly before his death as he was considering selling his house as he was wanting to downsize, there seemed to be alot going on in Alistair's life, and i definitely get the sense that he was feeling alot of pressure.
But yes I totally agree with you that there is so many angles that you can come at this at.
I really appreciate your feedback and input that you have given into this case, I'm glad we can have this open conversation about what we think could have happened. It's such an intriguing case.
I really hope that the police will release more information within the near future, they have absolutely nothing to lose now.

Jumping in again to say I think your ideas are on the ball.

Setting the Police aside, what are people's views on the 'general' information we have?

AW was supposedly generally content (other than moving job) with nothing outwardly giving anyone cause for concern: does this tally with someone in debt to some nasty people or someone in otherwise dodgy financial position?

Could AW have been in debt but not realised any danger?

Or is this an impression created by what we have been told? (Essentially AW perplexed by a visitor, checks with wife [and asks if she has any idea about the visit], goes back to door and is shot) - with emphasis on 'no feeling of threat'.

It's that overview which makes me wonder !

 

[davidt]

Just catching up. Some interesting new ideas.

On the idea this was a professional hitman who always intended to kill AW. I certainly don't rule it out. However there are various bits to it I'm not convinced about.

Firstly would a professional hitman who had meticulously planned this have allowed someone else (Veronica) to see him and allow her to live and be an eye witness. She saw him up close and personal after all. If he knew the area and had carefully planned this he'd have known there was a pub opposite and that calling at the time he did it was likely there would be people coming in and out of it. So whilst it's very plausible that the reason he didn't shoot AW at the first opportunity was because there were other people around there was always a significant chance there would be others coming and going at various times as well.

So when AW went back in to his house the killer presumably had no idea how long he would be and whether the coast would be clear when he returned. If when AW did return there were still people around what was he going to do? Wait again? walk away and come back another time? Also if he was local(ish) by hanging around he was increasing his chances of being seen and recognised by someone. I don't know but it all seems a bit messy and reliant on luck for a planned hit. I'm not ruling it out though. I'm out of my depth here but I'd have thought if the sole purpose of the visit was to kill AW you'd want to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Not hang around and so on. I'm torn on this but if forced to give an opinion at the moment I would probably side with it being an impulse shooting rather than a planned one. No real idea though.

On the gun. Is it usual for "professionals" to dispose of their weapons? This is just a personal viewpoint but I would have thought they would know exactly what they would do with it afterwards rather than putting it down a local drain. In terms of acquiring the gun I understand it was a very unusual gun and there is speculation it may have been in someone's possession for many decades. So existing gun law may not be relevant here.

The envelope. I still see a contradiction here. Firstly we have to bear in mind there may never have been an envelope. There's no proof of it's existence and we do have to consider that. However assuming it is true and accurate there's still questions for me. From the point of view of the killer the envelope seems pretty much totally unimportant. When AW took it our killer had no idea if AW would bring it back or not. He pretty much didn't know what AW was going to do. As far as we know he took it back before or after shooting AW but he'd have had no idea if he would get the opportunity to do so. On the other hand the police kept its existence secret for years and even now refuse to say much about it suggesting they do consider it very important. It would also be interesting to know if AW took the envelope voluntarily or if it was effectively forced on him. Similarly we don't know why AW went back in to his house. Did he do so off his own back perhaps to check something with Veronica or was he effectively told by the killer to go and get something? It changes the scenario quite a bit and increases or decreases the chances of AW returning to the door and whether or not he brings the envelope back with him. Was the killer expecting him to return or waiting in "hope". Personally I still wonder if there's "something else" surrounding the envelope given how secretive the police are about it and asking for information about it many years later when the chances of anyone having any information other than the killer are virtually zero. Are they after something else? Is it's mere existence important?

Using the envelope to verify AWs identity. This has already been raised but from the little that has been disclosed when AW went back inside he asked his wife if the person had definitely asked for him by name and then expressed his bewilderment over the envelope. To date there's never been any indication that AW mentioned anything about enquiring about anyone else. Of course as the police won't reveal what was in the conversation anything might have been said. Very hard for the public to help when there were no witnesses and the police won't say what they know or what information they need.

The doorstep conversation. I wonder what they did talk about. It's believed they talked for a few minutes. Presumably some sort of explanation was given to AW before he took the envelope. Why was he still so bewildered? What did he discuss with Veronica? One consideration is that perhaps the police have solved the case and may done so for some time. It may be they just don't have the evidence despite knowing what happened. It would explain why they still won't release any additional information they have. After 14 years you might think they may as well release what they have otherwise. I mean AW apparently sensed no danger at the time. He must have been generally at ease with the killer and not worried about returning to the door.

In terms of the Wilson's general situation. Firstly I'm always cynical when anyone claims to know how someone is or if they're happy or not and so on. Even close family members often have no real idea how someone is or if they have worries and so on. There's a big chance AWs killing was related to his work but of course it might not have had anything to do with it. Why did AW choose to leave banking, a career he had always set his heart on? Was, as has been suggested he taking a substantial pay cut in his new job at a time when it appears he may have been under financial pressure? Did he really choose to leave or did he feel he had no choice?

Finally for now. I've always wondered why Veronica stayed on at the house. I had one thought about it if AWs killing involved organised crime. The police and the underworld do have contacts and is it possible that a message might have been relayed to the police from a source that the matter was finished and that Veronica was in no danger? I think in her situation I would have been bricking it as an eye witness and be on the first bus out of town, so to speak.

 

[jambers]

Just catching up. Some interesting new ideas.

On the idea this was a professional hitman who always intended to kill AW. I certainly don't rule it out. However there are various bits to it I'm not convinced about.

Firstly would a professional hitman who had meticulously planned this have allowed someone else (Veronica) to see him and allow her to live and be an eye witness. She saw him up close and personal after all. If he knew the area and had carefully planned this he'd have known there was a pub opposite and that calling at the time he did it was likely there would be people coming in and out of it. So whilst it's very plausible that the reason he didn't shoot AW at the first opportunity was because there were other people around there was always a significant chance there would be others coming and going at various times as well.

So when AW went back in to his house the killer presumably had no idea how long he would be and whether the coast would be clear when he returned. If when AW did return there were still people around what was he going to do? Wait again? walk away and come back another time? Also if he was local(ish) by hanging around he was increasing his chances of being seen and recognised by someone. I don't know but it all seems a bit messy and reliant on luck for a planned hit. I'm not ruling it out though. I'm out of my depth here but I'd have thought if the sole purpose of the visit was to kill AW you'd want to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Not hang around and so on. I'm torn on this but if forced to give an opinion at the moment I would probably side with it being an impulse shooting rather than a planned one. No real idea though.

On the gun. Is it usual for "professionals" to dispose of their weapons? This is just a personal viewpoint but I would have thought they would know exactly what they would do with it afterwards rather than putting it down a local drain. In terms of acquiring the gun I understand it was a very unusual gun and there is speculation it may have been in someone's possession for many decades. So existing gun law may not be relevant here.

The envelope. I still see a contradiction here. Firstly we have to bear in mind there may never have been an envelope. There's no proof of it's existence and we do have to consider that. However assuming it is true and accurate there's still questions for me. From the point of view of the killer the envelope seems pretty much totally unimportant. When AW took it our killer had no idea if AW would bring it back or not. He pretty much didn't know what AW was going to do. As far as we know he took it back before or after shooting AW but he'd have had no idea if he would get the opportunity to do so. On the other hand the police kept its existence secret for years and even now refuse to say much about it suggesting they do consider it very important. It would also be interesting to know if AW took the envelope voluntarily or if it was effectively forced on him. Similarly we don't know why AW went back in to his house. Did he do so off his own back perhaps to check something with Veronica or was he effectively told by the killer to go and get something? It changes the scenario quite a bit and increases or decreases the chances of AW returning to the door and whether or not he brings the envelope back with him. Was the killer expecting him to return or waiting in "hope". Personally I still wonder if there's "something else" surrounding the envelope given how secretive the police are about it and asking for information about it many years later when the chances of anyone having any information other than the killer are virtually zero. Are they after something else? Is it's mere existence important?

Using the envelope to verify AWs identity. This has already been raised but from the little that has been disclosed when AW went back inside he asked his wife if the person had definitely asked for him by name and then expressed his bewilderment over the envelope. To date there's never been any indication that AW mentioned anything about enquiring about anyone else. Of course as the police won't reveal what was in the conversation anything might have been said. Very hard for the public to help when there were no witnesses and the police won't say what they know or what information they need.

The doorstep conversation. I wonder what they did talk about. It's believed they talked for a few minutes. Presumably some sort of explanation was given to AW before he took the envelope. Why was he still so bewildered? What did he discuss with Veronica? One consideration is that perhaps the police have solved the case and may done so for some time. It may be they just don't have the evidence despite knowing what happened. It would explain why they still won't release any additional information they have. After 14 years you might think they may as well release what they have otherwise. I mean AW apparently sensed no danger at the time. He must have been generally at ease with the killer and not worried about returning to the door.

In terms of the Wilson's general situation. Firstly I'm always cynical when anyone claims to know how someone is or if they're happy or not and so on. Even close family members often have no real idea how someone is or if they have worries and so on. There's a big chance AWs killing was related to his work but of course it might not have had anything to do with it. Why did AW choose to leave banking, a career he had always set his heart on? Was, as has been suggested he taking a substantial pay cut in his new job at a time when it appears he may have been under financial pressure? Did he really choose to leave or did he feel he had no choice?

Finally for now. I've always wondered why Veronica stayed on at the house. I had one thought about it if AWs killing involved organised crime. The police and the underworld do have contacts and is it possible that a message might have been relayed to the police from a source that the matter was finished and that Veronica was in no danger? I think in her situation I would have been bricking it as an eye witness and be on the first bus out of town, so to speak.

Starting from the bottom, Jaycee mentions listening the podcast, I can't say I have heard the bit mentioned: I have never really felt VW was in any way connected to this, however, (mainly due to what we've been told, and don't know) all your points are valid to an extent.

As regards the envelope (and this is a bit of the podcast I can quote) VW stated AW was 'a bit bewildered by what the gentleman had said' (and asked whether VW had any idea what the caller was on about.

This, to me, rules out the envelope being forced on AW (He did not seem threatened - 'no sense of danger' - if what we are told did happen, AW must have felt his wife would have some idea and therefore ask about the envelope (why take it otherwise)?

It's suggested the killer was there to 'negotiate' by some researchers; this could explain the conversation (But not AW's bewilderment insofar as the negotiation clearly was one sided!)

Once AW went back inside how could the killer know they'd get the envelope back?

There's never been a photofit released of the killer, but, I can see where if VW casually answered the door then said "I will get Alistair" she might not have paid particularly close attention to the killer.

 

[jambers]

It's not uncommon for hitmen to dispose of the murder within the area they commit the hit, that way the gun can't be traced to them if they are pulled over by the police shortly after they commit the hit. The want to parachute into the area do the job and leave quickly, disposing of any evidence that could tie them to the crime scene as quickly as they can.
Remember the gun was found accidentally by council workers when they were cleaning out the drains, ironically enough there was numerous complaints about the drain where the gun was found as it was always blocked. The local Councillor at the time had been putting pressure on the council workers to clean it out as he was receiving alot of complaints from the locals.
The gun was found five streets away from Alistairs House approximately 0.5 miles, 2 mins travel distance in a car or 10 mins walking distance, so it's not like it was carelessly disposed off, and to be honest the fact that they were unable to find any DNA on the gun again proves that he was forensically aware of what he was doing, he managed to handle a murder weapon without leaving any traces of his DNA on it.
Apparently the camera that was mounted on the wall opposite Alistairs house was facing in the opposite direction, perhaps the hitman was aware of this aswell and it gave him more confidence to stand on the doorstep for a longer period of time, until he felt confident enough to pull the trigger.
As for Veronica still staying in the house, I did find it bizarre at first but after listening what she had to say in a recent podcast I can totally understand why she decided to stay there.

I've always believed the killer knew exactly where they were going to put the weapon. That drain. It indicates how they exited the area too. Not sure whether they were picked up, on foot or perhaps two wheels (personally I think November in Scotland is a bit cold for motorbikes, they are not commonly seen in winter and would certainly stand out (in my view) - but if you are not looking for one I suppose no one would notice!)

I don't think the area would be difficult for someone to 'case out' beforehand and plan their exit.

As you mention the dearth of detail about what was said at the door (eg any substance AW related to VW) means we can only speculate, however, the mystery is as we are discussing, the pause / delay in the killing: the killer could well have been spooked/felt cautious but, was something said where they had a reasonable expectation AW would return to the door? What if he spent another minute or two speaking to his wife? Would the killer have left?

 

[davidt]

I've always believed the killer knew exactly where they were going to put the weapon. That drain. It indicates how they exited the area too. Not sure whether they were picked up, on foot or perhaps two wheels (personally I think November in Scotland is a bit cold for motorbikes, they are not commonly seen in winter and would certainly stand out (in my view) - but if you are not looking for one I suppose no one would notice!)

I don't think the area would be difficult for someone to 'case out' beforehand and plan their exit.

As you mention the dearth of detail about what was said at the door (eg any substance AW related to VW) means we can only speculate, however, the mystery is as we are discussing, the pause / delay in the killing: the killer could well have been spooked/felt cautious but, was something said where they had a reasonable expectation AW would return to the door? What if he spent another minute or two speaking to his wife? Would the killer have left?

Yes, that's a point I was trying to make. Presumably the killer had no idea at all how long AW would disappear inside before coming back out. Might be a few seconds or several minutes or possibly not at all. It does make more sense if he knew for sure AW would return. How long he would have waited for or what he would have done if whatever caused him not to shoot AW immediately was still an issue upon AW's return is another matter altogether.

 

[davidt]

I share your frustration with this case, there so little evidence to go on with this one. The Police are keeping there cards very close to there chest with almost everything, for example: what was the exact conversation which took place between Alistair and his wife when he returned upstairs? what else was written on the envelope besides the name Paul? What were Alistairs final words to his wife? , did he at any point tell Veronica what the visitor requested from him? Without knowing any of those details it makes this case even more intriguing but utterly frustrating at the same time.
I spoke to Fiona Walker about this case, she was the host of the doorstep murder podcast. She told me that she was told by the lead detective of the case, Gary cunningham that although he couldn't divulge into to the specifics of what was said between Alistair and Veronica he did confirm that it was a very brief conversation which took place between them, and that Alistair definitely confirmed to his wife that he didn't know, who or why the man had visited there house and asked to speak to him. Fiona was under the impression that perhaps Veronica didn't even know herself the exact conversation that took place between her husband and the gunman.
I have to admit that the hit itself was really weird it was almost like the killer decided to hold of shooting Alistair straight away, again hypothetically speaking we don't really know what really happened on the 1st encounter, like i have mentioned previously did the gunman freeze on the spot when he was aware Alistair was with his kids? When Veronica answered the door 1st time round did she say something along the lines of "I'll just go and get him he's upstairs with the kids". I know your stereotypes might say "well he's a hitman so he wouldn't have shown any empathy there cold blooded killers" Well it's not always the case, robert kukinski ( the iceman) one of the most notorious hitmen to ever walk this planet froze on the spot when he was instructed to carry out a hit on a young teenage girl as she witnessed a murder, he couldn't go through with killing her as he had young daughters himself, so there was an emotional element to this psychopath who killed people for fun. Was there an emotional element to the gunmans behaviour that night? Did he perhaps not a have a father figure in his life? Was he feeling guilt/remorse over the fact that he was about to put Alistairs young boys through the same situation he had to face growing up without a Dad? There is so much baffling aspects to this case that I honestly wouldn't rule anything out.
As for the gun being placed where it was, which was on the passengers side, I doubt the gunman would pull over next to the drain get out of the drivers side to then walk over to the opposite side of the car to drop the gun down the drain. In my opinion its far to high risk and he would not have wanted to draw any unnecessary attention to himself, especially after committing a murder. It would be more plausible had he pulled over to the opposite side of the road which would mean he was on his side (the drivers side) then opened the door to dispose of the gun more discreetly without being seen out in the open.
But from where the gun was placed it was on the passenger side which can mean only one or two things in my opinion, he either had a getaway driver who was directly involved in this or he made his escape via motorbike.

Or at a stretch had a left hand drive car?

 

[Jaycee 1992]

Or at a stretch had a left hand drive car?

possibly but they are not

Or at a stretch had a left hand drive car?

Could be a possibility, but left hand drives are pretty rare here in Scotland. But with this case nothing would surprise me

 

[jambers]

Yes, that's a point I was trying to make. Presumably the killer had no idea at all how long AW would disappear inside before coming back out. Might be a few seconds or several minutes or possibly not at all. It does make more sense if he knew for sure AW would return. How long he would have waited for or what he would have done if whatever caused him not to shoot AW immediately was still an issue upon AW's return is another matter altogether.

I've expressed the opinion previously, that in watching and listening to VW's comments about the events at the door (i.e. Alistair asking her if the killer definately asked for him) that VWs demeanour (clearly affected by the obvious painful recall of the events) is possibly also partly a 'caution' in not saying anything about what AW asked her: it is stated that AW asked VW if she knew what the caller was asking about (as well as if he had definitely asked for him): perhaps AW said 'I don;t know what this guy is on about, do you?' - but would it be more likely that he said 'He is asking me about/talking about?'

Even a 30 second conversation could convey a fair amount of information

 

[jambers]

I share your frustration with this case, there so little evidence to go on with this one. The Police are keeping there cards very close to there chest with almost everything, for example: what was the exact conversation which took place between Alistair and his wife when he returned upstairs? what else was written on the envelope besides the name Paul? What were Alistairs final words to his wife? , did he at anypoint tell Veronica what the visitor requested from him? Without knowing any of those details it makes this case even more intriguing but utterly frustrating at the same time.
I spoke to Fiona Walker about this case, she was the host of the doorstep murder podcast. She told me that she was told by the lead detective of the case, Gary cunningham that although he couldn't devulge into to the specifics of what was said between Alistair and Veronica he did confirm that it was a very brief conversation which took place between them, and that Alistair definitely confirmed to his wife that he didn't know, who or why the man had visited there house and asked to speak to him. Fiona was under the impression that perhaps Veronica didn't even know herself the exact conversation that took place between her husband and the gunman.
I have to admit that the hit itself was really weird it was almost like the killer decided to hold of shooting Alistair straight away, again hypothetically speaking we don't really know what really happened on the 1st encounter, like i have mentioned previously did the gunman freeze on the spot when he was aware Alistair was with his kids? When Veronica answered the door 1st time round did she say something along the lines of "I'll just go and get him he's upstairs with the kids". I know your stereotypes might say "well he's a hitman so he wouldn't have shown any empathy there cold blooded killers" Well it's not always the case, robert kukinski ( the iceman) one of the most notorious hitmen to ever walk this planet froze on the spot when he was instructed to carry out a hit on a young teenage girl as she witnessed a murder, he couldn't go through with killing her as he had young daughters himself, so there was an emotional element to this psychopath who killed people for fun. Was there an emotional element to the gunmans behaviour that night? Did he perhaps not a have a father figure in his life? Was he feeling guilt/remorse over the fact that he was about to put Alistairs young boys through the same situation he had to face growing up without a Dad? There is so much baffling aspects to this case that I honestly wouldn't rule anything out.
As for the gun being placed where it was, which was on the passengers side, I doubt the gunman would pull over next to the drain get out of the drivers side to then walk over to the opposite side of the car to drop the gun down the drain. In my opinion its far to high risk and he would not have wanted to draw any unnecessary attention to himself, especially after comitting a murder. It would be more plausible had he pulled over to the opposite side of the road which would mean he was on his side (the drivers side) then opened the door to dispose of the gun more discreetly without being seen out in the open.
But from where the gun was placed it was on the passenger side which can mean only one or two things in my opinion, he either had a getaway driver who was directly involved in this or he made his escape via motorbike.

I agree anything is possible re; the initial delay (Certainly, the killer need not be totally insensitive as you say). I suppose without even a hint at what was initially said we can't fully comprehend the encounter.

From a purely 'speed' perspective I'd say a car would be quicker to 'get away' in (and more confortable) - I believe the killer 'turned left' all the way to where the gun was found: the road along the front (marine road) is fully double-yellows so whatever he was using must have been in a car park or on the grass. I believe in terms of time, to walk to where a car could have been parked in Seafield Street makes most sense. Unless parked at the Royal Marine Apartment (1 parking area, and a one way road to get back out) it would not take too much longer to to walk into Seafield Road.

I don't believe, where the gun was found, anyone getting out a car would attract that much attention. There is no opposing builiding (A Church), the area is relatively busy from the main road, and the nearest house has high hedges. Even if anyone was aware of someone getting out their car, (I have no doubt the killer chose this spot, since they had already passed many drains on the way), the killer could have 'acted' like they were checking a tyre, cleaning their windscreen, moving something from the boot: if anyone did see this, they wouldn't be seeing someone like The Penguin's henchmen in Batman, it would just be someone who might have just left a house visit, or doing anything but something sinister: you would be more aware than be curious in my view.

There is one other option. Did the killer walk to the Links car park then drive straight onto the main road, toward Inverness (and past the other end of AW's street) and turn INTO Seabank Road (where the gun was found?)

 

[Jaycee 1992]

I agree anything is possible re; the initial delay (Certainly, the killer need not be totally insensitive as you say). I suppose without even a hint at what was initially said we can't fully comprehend the encounter.

From a purely 'speed' perspective I'd say a car would be quicker to 'get away' in (and more confortable) - I believe the killer 'turned left' all the way to where the gun was found: the road along the front (marine road) is fully double-yellows so whatever he was using must have been in a car park or on the grass. I believe in terms of time, to walk to where a car could have been parked in Seafield Street makes most sense. Unless parked at the Royal Marine Apartment (1 parking area, and a one way road to get back out) it would not take too much longer to to walk into Seafield Road.

I don't believe, where the gun was found, anyone getting out a car would attract that much attention. There is no opposing builiding (A Church), the area is relatively busy from the main road, and the nearest house has high hedges. Even if anyone was aware of someone getting out their car, (I have no doubt the killer chose this spot, since they had already passed many drains on the way), the killer could have 'acted' like they were checking a tyre, cleaning their windscreen, moving something from the boot: if anyone did see this, they wouldn't be seeing someone like The Penguin's henchmen in Batman, it would just be someone who might have just left a house visit, or doing anything but something sinister: you would be more aware than be curious in my view.

There is one other option. Did the killer walk to the Links car park then drive straight onto the main road, toward Inverness (and past the other end of AW's street) and turn INTO Seabank Road (where the gun was found?)

Seabank Road at that time of night especially in the month of November is usually relatively quiet. Of course you wouldn't grow any suspicion if you saw someone pulling up to the side of the road to where the drain is located. But once you were aware that later on that's where the murder weapon was placed then i dare say your suspicion would grow and you'd definitely be thinking "was the guy that pulled over in his land rover that night an innocent person, or was he infact the killer"? I know from a purely personal perspective that my suspicion would be getting the better of me.
Really happy that you have mentioned the Royal Marine apartments, I have brought this up in previous discussions that this could have been a likely place for the car to be parked. Its an ideal location and the gunman could easily have hidden himself in plain sight by running across the open field which would have been pitch dark by this point in order not be seen by anyone.
I don't know if there is ccttv operating on that building at all, or if there would have been at the time, but if not then it's very possible that this was the destination in which the killer used to escape, as it was on his route out of nairn.
I agree also that there is no chance that the killer parked on the double yellow lines which would have drawn unnecessary attention to himself. Something is drawing me to the links open car park or the Royal Marine apartments, i don't think we're far of the mark.
As for the last piece on your previous post, I don't think the killer took that route at all, the route which we think he used, is most likely the one he used to escape.

 

[davidt]

I keep thinking about this and it makes my head hurt! So to recap let's assume the sole intention of the killer that night was to kill AW. By that I mean there wasn't anything else that needed to be dealt with before killing him. Let's also assume the general consensus is correct and that the whole incident took around ten minutes.

Our killer aarrives at the the Wilson's house. Veronica answers the door and the caller asks for AW by name. Veronica fetches him.

Our killer does not kill AW immediately. We don't know why. Perhaps because other people are around or for some other reason. Clearly the killer didn't have his gun in his hand ready or appear threatening to AW. Instead they engage in conversation for "a couple of minutes". At some stage AW is given an envelope with the word Paul written on it. Again we have no idea at what stage he was given this or why he accepted it.

There are several possible reasons he may have been given the envelope.

As a distraction technique
For him to put something in
It had something in it for him
For him to pass on to someone else

A distraction technique would appear to be the most likely if the sole purpose of the visit was to kill AW.

After a few minutes AW returns inside his house with the envelope. We don't know why. To ask Veronica something? Because he considered the conversation finished? Because he needed to fetch something? Why did the killer allow AW to return inside with the envelope? How did he know AW would reappear at all? How long would he have waited? How could he possibly know he could complete his mission?

At this stage it does get very confusing. We know that if the ten minute timeline is correct AW must have spent a good five or six minutes back inside the house. Yet he's said to have had only a brief conversation with Veronica. Twice as long as he spent talking to the killer though. He was said to be bewildered and asked Veronica if she was sure the killer had asked for him by name. I'd be amazed, unless AW himself had something to hide, if he didn't give Veronica a full account of what had just happened. After this period of discussion AW decided to go and see if the killer is still there. Why? and indeed why was the killer still there? Something isn't right here. AW can't have told the killer to hang on or anything as he only decided to go back out after talking to Veronica. Either AW was always going back outside which is why the killer was still there or he he just made a spur of the minute decision to do so and it's a mystery why he thought the killer might be and why the killer was. If it's the former he mislead Veronica. If it's the latter it's really odd the killer was still there. It just doesn't gel. I don't get the timings or the sequence of events. Five or six minutes must have seemed like an eternity for our killer to wait.

AW returns outside and is shot pretty much immediately and the killer retrieves the envelope before escaping. It's totally unclear whether the envelope had any real importance or not.

Or could it just be bad reporting? I do think it's crucial to know if AW did just decide on the spur of the moment to go back out or not. It changes everything really.

 

[Joyalice]

I think there was something in that envelope that was relevant to Alistair, that he took out before going up to Veronica, so therefore if he wanted to hide anything from her it would seem what was written on the envelope would not give anything away or be suspicious to Veronica. I think it was blackmail and the contents of the envelope was part of that.

 

[Jaycee 1992]

Very good p

I keep thinking about this and it makes my head hurt! So to recap let's assume the sole intention of the killer that night was to kill AW. By that I mean there wasn't anything else that needed to be dealt with before killing him. Let's also assume the general consensus is correct and that the whole incident took around ten minutes.

Our killer aarrives at the the Wilson's house. Veronica answers the door and the caller asks for AW by name. Veronica fetches him.

Our killer does not kill AW immediately. We don't know why. Perhaps because other people are around or for some other reason. Clearly the killer didn't have his gun in his hand ready or appear threatening to AW. Instead they engage in conversation for "a couple of minutes". At some stage AW is given an envelope with the word Paul written on it. Again we have no idea at what stage he was given this or why he accepted it.

There are several possible reasons he may have been given the envelope.

As a distraction technique
For him to put something in
It had something in it for him
For him to pass on to someone else

A distraction technique would appear to be the most likely if the sole purpose of the visit was to kill AW.

After a few minutes AW returns inside his house with the envelope. We don't know why. To ask Veronica something? Because he considered the conversation finished? Because he needed to fetch something? Why did the killer allow AW to return inside with the envelope? How did he know AW would reappear at all? How long would he have waited? How could he possibly know he could complete his mission?

At this stage it does get very confusing. We know that if the ten minute timeline is correct AW must have spent a good five or six minutes back inside the house. Yet he's said to have had only a brief conversation with Veronica. Twice as long as he spent talking to the killer though. He was said to be bewildered and asked Veronica if she was sure the killer had asked for him by name. I'd be amazed, unless AW himself had something to hide, if he didn't give Veronica a full account of what had just happened. After this period of discussion AW decided to go and see if the killer is still there. Why? and indeed why was the killer still there? Something isn't right here. AW can't have told the killer to hang on or anything as he only decided to go back out after talking to Veronica. Either AW was always going back outside which is why the killer was still there or he he just made a spur of the minute decision to do so and it's a mystery why he thought the killer might be and why the killer was. If it's the former he mislead Veronica. If it's the latter it's really odd the killer was still there. It just doesn't gel. I don't get the timings or the sequence of events. Five or six minutes must have seemed like an eternity for our killer to wait.

AW returns outside and is shot pretty much immediately and the killer retrieves the envelope before escaping. It's totally unclear whether the envelope had any real importance or not.

Or could it just be bad reporting? I do think it's crucial to know if AW did just decide on the spur of the moment to go back out or not. It changes everything really.

From what i was lead to believe the gunmans total time standing on the doorstep lasted approximately 7 - 10 mins - give or take. The conversation that took place between himself and Alistair wilson only lasted for a couple of mins, before Alistair returned back inside with the envelope, then after having a brief discussion with Veronica he went back downstairs where he was shot almost immediately. I think it's possible that maybe if Alistair was hiding something then he probably didn't want to tell Veronica what the visit was about. There is so many angles you can come at this with, as there is so much missing from what actually occurred on the doorstep

 

[Jaycee 1992]

I think there was something in that envelope that was relevant to Alistair, that he took out before going up to Veronica, so therefore if he wanted to hide anything from her it would seem what was written on the envelope would not give anything away or be suspicious to Veronica. I think it was blackmail and the contents of the envelope was part of that.

Have you any idea what it could have been? I have always been open to this that there might have been something in the envelope, like a security document or a cheque of some sort in which there was an offer given to Alistair to change his mind about leaving the bank? Or security details?

 

[Joyalice]

I think Alistair was having an affair, just my thoughts and he was going to expose something so he was blackmailed as I say just y thoughts.