Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

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Hi Dirk

Good name.

I tried George first but it was already taken. ;)

The Press will often edit out the number plate of a vehicle as it could lead to invasion of privacy if current and/or previous owners were traced.

But on this occasion they published the plate number anyway. Just wondering why they'd publish the plate number alongside a picture of the vehicle with the plate number covered with cardboard?
 
Sure, but this in itself raises questions. Unless MB has lived without a TV for the last 20 years (and has never seen an episode of Morse, Inspector Frost, CSI and countless others) it's reasonable to assume that he knows that the police employ something called "forensics". It's also reasonable to assume that he'd have a rudimentary knowledge of the kind of forensic evidence a murder leaves behind. I don't think that these are unreasonable assumptions to make, in which case his subsequent actions, along with the "vast amount" of forensic evidence the police are supposedly wading through, make little sense. What I'm trying to understand is why MB was 'caught' (as the media like to put it) strolling down a road, rather than in his back garden pouring lighter fluid over bloody clothes or hosing down his kitchen floor with boiling water and undiluted bleach?

Going about his day 'casually'.
 
I tried George first but it was already taken. ;)



But on this occasion they published the plate number anyway. Just wondering why they'd publish the plate number alongside a picture of the vehicle with the plate number covered with cardboard?


It was suggested earlier in the thread, (sorry, I can't quite remember if it there was a link, it's in part one and locked now) it was covered like that to protect potential evidence, words to that effect.
 
Actually what the police said was "forensic analysis" - not forensic evidence.

"In a press conference, Detective Superintendent Reg Bevan said they have "vast amounts" of forensic material but this will not be enough to solve the case alone. He said that Mr Bridger will be re-interviewed today and detectives will try to "overlay" what they know about his movements with his own account. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9586248/April-Jones-missing-five-year-old-in-Wales-live.html
 
Seeing the discussion (granted I've only skimmed so far - American VP debates this morning ;)) turn towards the CSI effect made me think of another case I followed here.

It's probably the case that most broke my heart too. Zahra Baker was a 10 year old cancer survivor with a prosthetic leg. It's theorised she was beaten to death with her prosthetic by her stepmother. She was dismembered in her home. Her remains were scattered in several areas - very little of her was ever recovered. Her mattress was replaced. Walls were bleached down, then painted. Bricks around the fireplace removed. Part of a ceiling was even torn out.

COD could not be proven. Who committed the murder could not be proven. Who participated in the cover up could not be proven. But one thing remained and that is the proof of a murder. Despite all attempts to elude prosecution enough evidence remained in that house to prove murder.

Elisa Baker's phone records placed her at one of the disposal sites and she had a known history of abuse perpetrated against Zahra as well that sealed the case. She is currently in prison for 2nd degree murder amongst a host of lesser charges. Adam Baker was (unfortunately) never charged in connection to his daughter's murder and was deported to his native Australia.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19853582

He said a "detailed review of the evidence gathered so far ...... "sufficient evidence to charge Mark Bridger with the murder of April Jones, and that it is in the public interest to do so".

I really don't see how this is not crystal clear. They are saying:

Sufficient evidence = enough
Murder of April Jones = she is deceased
MB = the man who did it

Jmo.

And if they didn't have sufficient evidence the magistrate would not remand MB in custody. Has to be enough for magistrate or judge to be satisfied that a prima facie case exists against the accused.
 
Thank you so much you have literally just written exactly as I was thinking. I didn't want to bring up the money side of things or be disrespectful, but it has to be said, it is costing an enormous amount.

I have seen some quite cruel comments in other places saying things like 'what's so special about this child', sadly how a lot naturally think. But I remember on a Sky interview with one of the police it was mentioned that they couldn't go on searching indefinitely, but his stance now seems to have changed somewhat which does make you think that they are either concerned about convincing a Jury or there is much more to it that we don't know.

I still have a niggling that others could have been involved in this....I guess all we can do is wait and pray they have the right man, can safely convict and hopefully return April to her Parents so they can draw some sort of closure.[/QUOTE]

The little girl who was playing with April and who told her not to get into the vehicle told police that April said 'it's ok, I know them'. May mean nothing, just choice of words from a little one, or may mean a lot.
 
I don't know about the UK, but in the US, trials are very expensive and not to be taken lightly, and hardly ever without bodies, though it happens more than it used to. They may have found a bad crime scene-we wouldn't know, since UK police do not share this type of info, whereas here we would know right way.

I just am feeling pretty convinced the they have evidence of what they believe to be true, that April is deceased and that the person in custody is responsible.

They've done forensic on the vehicle, may be that or his home, either way, a few days ago they seemed to be concentrating on very specific areas for the search.
 
i respect your view but having trouble believing it as he doesnt at his age have form, nothing has come out from anyone suggesting anything remotely to suggest a violent character, a child molestor, mental illness, deviant sexual urges, then again maybe they have and told by police to shut up and say nothing, though Im not convinced qnd no rumours or gossip about him on the many facebook pages, unless as I have posted before he is involved but not in a murder capacity but by some negligence that led to death and panicked

There is mention of police refusing to comment on any previous history. And there is more, but probably can't post here as he has been charged.
 
Skigh, post 993 -
Well, to be frank, I find this forum very hard to navigate. There seem to be so many different sections and I don't really understand the logic to it. Stuff seems to get moved around as well. Sometimes I can't even find a thread I've posted on - I have to look through all my own posts via my profile to get back there!

It might help if there was a "UK & Ireland" section (or "British Isles" might be better) containing everything: missing, trials, awaiting trial, serial killers, everything under one roof so to speak. I just don't have time to go sifting through all those places on the main boards.

Maybe include Oz and NZ as well :) Even though I've visited USA many times, coming from the UK I relate to the cases more, and the legal system is familiar -Australia's is based on it.
 
Just an FYI...I went to my User area and hid the threads and sections that I don't use as a rule, so that the forum does not seem so overwhelming. (User Cp,then "Edit Options").
 
Sure, but this in itself raises questions. Unless MB has lived without a TV for the last 20 years (and has never seen an episode of Morse, Inspector Frost, CSI and countless others) it's reasonable to assume that he knows that the police employ something called "forensics". It's also reasonable to assume that he'd have a rudimentary knowledge of the kind of forensic evidence a murder leaves behind. I don't think that these are unreasonable assumptions to make, in which case his subsequent actions, along with the "vast amount" of forensic evidence the police are supposedly wading through, make little sense. What I'm trying to understand is why MB was 'caught' (as the media like to put it) strolling down a road, rather than in his back garden pouring lighter fluid over bloody clothes or hosing down his kitchen floor with boiling water and undiluted bleach?

MSM said a tip-off from someone (re arrest).
As to his TV viewing habits, would he have had time to watch TV ? Doesn't sound as if it was top on the list of his hobbies.
 
Hi Dirk

Good name.

The Press will often edit out the number plate of a vehicle as it could lead to invasion of privacy if current and/or previous owners were traced.

The pictures I saw showed the Land Rover with a sheet of cardboard over the number plate, then, the next pic was of the number plate !
 
Hello everybody! I just signed up to this forum because I think it's an awesome forum! :) I have followed this sad case from day one, found this thread while googling. Have been reading it almost from the start.

As others have observed, there are some really confusing aspects to this case. I just wanted to throw a few (hoepfully new) thoughts in here and see if someone can elaborate.

First, what has confused me most is the fact that LE was so quickly ready to charge MB with murder which most likely means they know or have strong evidence that she is dead. It was mentioned here that "forensics" must have pointed to that fact - but what forensics? Afaik DNA matching takes much longer than a couple of days. They arrested him on Tuesday afternoon and proceeded to question him and search his home and car(s). On Friday they announced the charges, that's roughly 72 hours. What could have transpired in such a short time frame that led them to make such a bold move? Especially because, as others have said here, it is very rare for someone to be charged with murder without a body being found.

So, if not DNA evidence, then what? The only things I can think of is photos or video - or a confession.

If they had found, for example, blood, or bloody clothes that were identified as her clothes, it would still not be 100% sure that she's dead.

Second, why did LE raid that couple's home (in another town/village I believe) a couple of days ago after some prankster claimed they had April? If they knew she is dead, and that MB was responsible, why go there and search for her? Just doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, the fact that there have been no more appeals by April's mother (or parents) on TV probably means that LE has told them what kind of evidence they have found (or that MB has confessed to killing her) and that the parents are also convinced that she is in fact dead. Otherwise, why would they stop appealing to the kidnapper to let her go, stop putting up flyers and such things? From what I have seen and read following cases such as this, parents usually don't stop their efforts to find their child after just a few days.

Third, I would not rely much at all on what the 7 year old who was with April said, not because she is a child but because eyewitnesses' memories are notoriously unreliable. It sounds absurd but simple things like what color an item was or how tall a person was and what they wore, etc, get distorted beyond recognition. Our memory is pretty unreliable. This is a fact, there have been studies about this, which everybody can google and read up on.

So which color the car was and which side April got in doesn't really bother me much.

Nevertheless, possibly based on what the 7 year old girl described, April's mother seemed to have an idea whose car it was. She immediately told LE this. So what happened then? I find it hard to believe that nobody knew where MB now lived (if it was indeed him she pointed out to LE), and that he didn't answer his phone?

But did she really name MB to LE? After all, he is the biological uncle of her other two children, he is family. Maybe he wasn't close family, but if an uncle of your child was reported taking your child away in his car would you immediately think she's been *abducted*? Especially since she's been on outings with him before. I would be perplexed, possibly annoyed, that uncle so-and-so took my daughter out to what appears to be a ride in his care without my permission, but I don't think I would immediatly call the police based on that. I would try to contact him, call him, drive to his house, but none of this was reported. Instead it was reported that a "search party" was immediately organized by neighbours. Why, if it was uncle Mark? The actions of April's mother and the neighbours look to me more like they thought a stranger had taken her. Or it could be that nobody liked and trusted MB, that there were ugly rumours and stories circling that involved him? But we have also heard that none of his friends and family thought he would be capable of something like this.

Lastly, another point that I find interesting (and kind of disturbing) is that the Judge at the hearing on Wednesday said "many" children will be testifying in January. Many? Why many? As far as we know there was a 7 year old girl and possibly a couple of others present when April climbed into that car. Would that be enough to say "many"? To me it sounds more like something else has been discovered about his past behaviour with children, to which those other "many" children will testify in court. (not a nice thought!)

What do you all think? Didn't you kind of stumble over that word "many"?

I'm sorry, this was a very long post for a newbie here! Please forgive me. I have been reading this thread for days and there is just so much I want to say and share.

My thoughts with April and their family!
 
DNA can be done very quickly, in a day or two, especially if they rush it due to the victim possibly still being alive. I believe whatever they found told them she was not.

(Welcome to WS, by the way)

I had not seen that about "many"children. They would have to have something specific that adds to the evidence, I would think.
 
Hi there, new to the forum

Welcome!

First, is everyone familiar with this Huffington Post article, which provides a picture of a white van supposedly ‘dumped’ by MB?

I remember that there was great interest in that shot at the time, but I doubt that the van was 'dumped' - it is a couple of feet from the side of a relatively busy trunk road, totally blocking the road in that direction, and I think it was merely stopped by the police for searching because it was a white Connect van, which is what they were looking for initially.
 
I know the A487 was closed from Mach to Cross Foxes in the afternoon on Tuesday. It was reported at about 4pm. It's not clear to me whether it was closed before or after MB was arrested though

I'm pretty sure it was from early morning on the Tuesday, as I recall hearing on the radio news that morning that it had been closed. It was certainly closed before the arrest as the BBC report of the arrest states:

"He was arrested at about 16:00 BST on the A487 main road north out of Machynlleth, which remains closed in both directions as far as Cross Foxes, near Dolgellau, 12 miles away".

It was still closed on the Wednesday morning, although by then the northern blockade had been brought back to Corris (effectively reducing the closure to about five miles):

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2012-10-03/roads-a487-machynlleth/
 
Hello everybody! I just signed up to this forum because I think it's an awesome forum! :)

Welcome!

April's mother seemed to have an idea whose car it was. She immediately told LE this. So what happened then? I find it hard to believe that nobody knew where MB now lived (if it was indeed him she pointed out to LE)

Nevertheless, it is obvious from the fact that LE did not immediately go to MB's new house that nobody did know where it was. The fact that they closed a 12-mile stretch of the A487 strongly suggests that they were simply told that he had moved somewhere up in the Corris valley.

and that he didn't answer his phone?

Does he have a mobile phone? According to Ofcom, only 27% of adults own a mobile phone. If he does have one, would he have answered it having just allegedly abducted a child?

But we have also heard that none of his friends and family thought he would be capable of something like this.

I recall that Vincent Tabak's friends and family were absolutely adamant that he would be incapable of killing Jo Yeates, but he went on to confess that he did just that.
 
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