Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Mrs P]

I'm in agreement with your post earlier about needing to read things properly and to make account for perception and fabrication. It seems you may be guilty yourself.

The witness I think you refer to in the DM article isn't a witness to the act but the father of a witness. This could easily be his perception of what his daughter told him.

Exactly. Although I disagree with me being guilty (of x/y/z...). I am merely pointing out things. I don't think I've provided an opinion either way in this respect... unless that is just my own perception, of course...

 

[wildchild1961]

Even if there was he could still claim innocence.

Yes he could.. Strange though that in the most recent days.. not once have we heard "he is maintaining his innocence" or anything like that.. instead we hear about him giving "his version of events". I dunno about him.. but if i was in his position and I was innocent.. I would be screaming to anyone who would listen that I am innocent and being framed by the police, including and most specifically when I was in front of a judge, had his ear and had a small hope of being able to get my side of the story out to others.

Interesting that no hint of that is coming through in the current reports.

Wild

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes he could.. Strange though that in the most recent days.. not once have we heard "he is maintaining his innocence" or anything like that.. instead we hear about him giving "his version of events". I dunno about him.. but if i was in his position and I was innocent.. I would be screaming to anyone who would listen that I am innocent and being framed by the police, including and most specifically when I was in front of a judge, had his ear and had a small hope of being able to get my side of the story out to others.

Interesting that no hint of that is coming through in the current reports.

Wild

And in a British court, not in the slightest bit unusual. Exactly the same behaviour and reporting as Colin Stagg, Sion Jenkins, Barry George, Sally Clark, etc, etc, etc. All arrested and charged, some even convicted, and all eventually vindicated on the grounds of actual innocence.

You can't judge anything at all either way from how he has behaved so far or what the press have said.

 

[Clio]

Yes he could.. Strange though that in the most recent days.. not once have we heard "he is maintaining his innocence" or anything like that.. instead we hear about him giving "his version of events". I dunno about him.. but if i was in his position and I was innocent.. I would be screaming to anyone who would listen that I am innocent and being framed by the police, including and most specifically when I was in front of a judge, had his ear and had a small hope of being able to get my side of the story out to others.

Interesting that no hint of that is coming through in the current reports.

Wild

He will have been advised by his lawyers to say nothing except to confirm that he understands the charges. Making a huge fuss in front of the judge would do him no good what so ever.

He has been charged. The media are not allowed to report anything which may prejudice a trial. There will be no hint of anything about what he's saying or doing printed now until the trial. You can't infer anything from the lack of press reports.

 

[cluciano63]

If April actually said she "knew" the person in the car, and it was a male, how many men would a 5-year old actually say that about? And would it be any less shocking if any of those other men she knows had been arrested and charged, I wonder. Just trying to figure out if the shock is simply based on this particular man, or if there are others people would have been less shocked about, or if they would just prefer it was some bad person who came from the outside.

 

[Clio]

At least the police are taking leads seriously (although, I'm not sure if the local police followed up on the attempted abduction of two youngsters in another town).

April Jones Missing: Couple Raided By Police After Facebook Hoax Claim They Kidnapped Missing Child

MB and the man in this article could pass for brothers - striking resemblance.

Surprisingly seriously considering that at the point this happened, LE had sufficient evidence of her death to have charged MB with her murder on the previous day.

 

[veggiefan]

I'm thankful if they allow the children to testify by video. It will be (already has been) traumatic for the children.

I am afraid that it could be much worse if the charges are contested, despite being via video. Although the judge will do his best to avoid the children getting upset, an aggressive defence barrister is likely to seize on matters such as the confusion about the colour of the vehicle and challenge the youngster with the suggestion that she was lying or is unreliable. "Do you know what a lie is?" is typical of the probing question likely to be asked. Young children can be very disturbed by hearing "the telly" seem to accuse them in person in this way.

It is a very great pity that the "main witness" is a seven-year old girl since I have little doubt that a defence barrister could be ruthless in trying to undermine her testimony. Juries may well see through this, but it risks being a truly horrible experience for the child/children concerned.

 

[Violette]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/2012/1...ravan-in-ceinws-91466-32005775/#ixzz28ux4vNAh

Police investigating the disappearance of April Jones have cordoned off a caravan close to suspect Mark Bridger's house.

Tape surrounded a small clearing in a wooded area just a few hundred metres from the village of Ceinws.


Hello everyone btw. I'm a long time lurker :greetings:

 

[bijoux]

There's no witness that says it was MB in the car that drove off with AJ either. At least not as far as we know

Not that we know of for sure, but we do know LE stated they had a description of the suspect which they were not comfortable releasing. I believe it was pre-arrest and before we knew of CS's sighting of MB on the river bank?

Did CS came forward of her own accord, or did her information come to light through routine police questioning of locals?

And another thing I wonder: aren't there laws against dumping anything in waterways in the UK? There are very heavy fines against such things where I live, so assuming MB is innocent, what was in the bag and why did he feel the need to put it and or the contents in the river instead of disposing of it properly and responsibly.

 

[Cappuccino]

Not that we know of for sure, but we do know LE stated they had a description of the suspect which they were not comfortable releasing. I believe it was pre-arrest and before we knew of CS's sighting of MB on the river bank?

Did CS came forward of her own accord, or did her information come to light through routine police questioning of locals?

And another thing I wonder: aren't there laws against dumping anything in waterways in the UK? There are very heavy fines against such things where I live, so assuming MB is innocent, what was in the bag and why did he feel the need to put it and or the contents in the river instead of disposing of it properly and responsibly.

We don't know if the man seen by the river was MB, nor if the bag he was carrying was put in the river. All the witnesses have said is they saw a man near the river carrying a black bag.

 

[Clutchbag]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/2012/1...ravan-in-ceinws-91466-32005775/#ixzz28ux4vNAh

Police investigating the disappearance of April Jones have cordoned off a caravan close to suspect Mark Bridger's house.

Tape surrounded a small clearing in a wooded area just a few hundred metres from the village of Ceinws.


Hello everyone btw. I'm a long time lurker :greetings:

Hi Violette and welcome

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

It is a very great pity that the "main witness" is a seven-year old girl since I have little doubt that a defence barrister could be ruthless in trying to undermine her testimony. Juries may well see through this, but it risks being a truly horrible experience for the child/children concerned.

Indeed, but the whole point of the Courts system and CJS isn't about protecting the sensibilities of young children, it's about establishing innocence or guilt. The implications of getting the right or wrong answer out of the young witnesses are huge - either the loss of a man's liberty or that another search has to be made for the real killer. The members of the jury will make their own minds up about the reliability of the evidence from the child witness(es).

 

[Clutchbag]

I am afraid that it could be much worse if the charges are contested, despite being via video. Although the judge will do his best to avoid the children getting upset, an aggressive defence barrister is likely to seize on matters such as the confusion about the colour of the vehicle and challenge the youngster with the suggestion that she was lying or is unreliable. "Do you know what a lie is?" is typical of the probing question likely to be asked. Young children can be very disturbed by hearing "the telly" seem to accuse them in person in this way.

It is a very great pity that the "main witness" is a seven-year old girl since I have little doubt that a defence barrister could be ruthless in trying to undermine her testimony. Juries may well see through this, but it risks being a truly horrible experience for the child/children concerned.

It depends, the child might have said something that was very incriminating that even the best barrister might have difficulty contesting. it is awful though that such a young child should be involved as a witness in a murder case of a friend

 

[Cappuccino]

Indeed, but the whole point of the Courts system and CJS isn't about protecting the sensibilities of young children, it's about establishing innocence or guilt. The implications of getting the right or wrong out of the young witnesses are huge - either the loss of a man's liberty or that another search has to be made for the real killer. The members of the jury will make their own minds up about the reliability of the evidence from the child witness(es).

Given that the UK courts can't convict on the uncorroborated evidence of a child, the pressure on the seven year old witness hopefully won't be that great anway. She won't be the star witness on whose credibility the case stands or falls.

 

[wildchild1961]

And in a British court, not in the slightest bit unusual. Exactly the same behaviour and reporting as Colin Stagg, Sion Jenkins, Barry George, Sally Clark, etc, etc, etc. All arrested and charged, some even convicted, and all eventually vindicated on the grounds of actual innocence.

You can't judge anything at all either way from how he has behaved so far or what the press have said.

with all due respect and I really do mean that.. How someone behaves and acts is exactly how we judge them. Would I make a decision as to his guilt or innocence based on how he acts and what he decides to say and not say? NO. But would I take it into consideration?? heeeeeeeeeck yeah I never said I thought he was guilty based on that.. I said I thought it was interesting.

Wild

 

[Cappuccino]

with all due respect and I really do mean that.. How someone behaves and acts is exactly how we judge them. Would I make a decision as to his guilt or innocence based on how he acts and what he decides to say and not say? NO. But would I take it into consideration?? heeeeeeeeeck yeah I never said I thought he was guilty based on that.. I said I thought it was interesting.

Wild

His behaviour, (or what we've seen of it), would be no different at this stage regardless of guilt or innocence, so I guess I don't see anything interesting there.

Certainly once the trial starts we'll see more and hopefully know more. If there even is a trial, we don't even know how he's going to plead yet.

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

And another thing I wonder: aren't there laws against dumping anything in waterways in the UK? There are very heavy fines against such things where I live, so assuming MB is innocent, what was in the bag and why did he feel the need to put it and or the contents in the river instead of disposing of it properly and responsibly.

A summary of various UK laws on littering: www.cleanhighways.co.uk/litter-laws

In addition, the Dyfi Valley is the UK's first UNESCO biosphere:

www.biosfferdyfi.org.uk/start/maps/

As such, Network Rail are very strict on what their staff and contractors get up to at Dyfi Junction. They can't as much as drop a crisp packet without the Environment Agency getting on their back. Which makes it all the more disappointing that flying litter was released into the air on Monday evening.

 

[nursebeeme]

welcome to websleuths Violette! :cheer:

 

[Clutchbag]

was the man actually seen dumping anything into the river?

 

[bijoux]

We don't know if the man seen by the river was MB, nor if the bag he was carrying was put in the river. All the witnesses have said is they saw a man near the river carrying a black bag.

I thought witness said she knew MB and waved.
*confused*
Think I need to re-read everything.