UK Uk- Bedgebury Forest, Kent, Woman, 30-35, 5'1'', brown hair & eyes, ectopic pregnancy, poss. sex worker, viciously murdered with wooden stake, Oct.'79

[jojojaja]

It looks like Jean was killed after she stopped at a picnic site and the other woman from 1979 was probably found at the deposition site

The other woman, was not deposited anywhere, various posts here have stated the police believe and it would appear, firmly believe, that the unidentified female was killed where she was. There is evidence for this, repeated several times. Including witnesses who saw her there alive.

It would help if people would please read the links and proofs so we don't circle back to wrong information. It is misleading to others. I myself have slipped up and try to edit my posts accordingly if within time or correct myself in another post. I think others have corrected me too for mainly silly mistakes from lack of concentration or forgetfulness, which I am grateful for, so please keep doing that.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Prime for familial dna through Ancestry and the like, surely.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I'm sure l posted about these murders before but l can't find a thread!

 

[MarziPanda]

Prime for familial dna through Ancestry and the like, surely.

The UK doesn't use that technique because of privacy laws, I believe.

 

[Pinkizzy]

The UK doesn't use that technique because of privacy laws, I believe.

Now is the time to review them imo

 

[dotr]

Home

Discover more about DNA, genes and genomes

www.yourgenome.org

''What is the UK National DNA Database?​

• The UK National DNA Database holds the DNA? profiles and relevant DNA samples from a select number of UK individuals.
• It is the largest database of its kind in the world and is continuing to grow each year.
• Every profile in the UK National DNA Database is derived from a sample of human material, such as saliva or hair, collected from a crime scene.
• The information derived from each profile can be a powerful tool in the fight against crime.
• If a match is made between a crime scene profile and a profile on the database it can help police to identify a possible suspect.
• They can then use this DNA information as evidence for demonstrating an individual is guilty of a crime.
• Searching the database to find a match helps identify a suspect in around 60 per cent of cases.''

Killer in the family tree? DNA sites could be used to track down suspects

The technique credited with solving the Golden State serial killer case is being explored by Scotland Yard

www.standard.co.uk

2022
''Scotland Yard said it is leading a pilot on behalf of national policing into investigative genetic genealogy, which compares the DNA of an unknown suspect or unidentified victim with samples uploaded by the public onto a genetic genealogy database for likely relatives. It allows genealogists to place relatives into clusters of family trees and work backwards to identify them.

It could be more effective than the gene-tracing techniques used with the national DNA database as it can trace a potential suspect from more distant relatives.

It could lead to genealogy sites being asked to open up their databases to investigating officers. The technique could uncover a person’s family tree if someone as distant as a third cousin uploaded their DNA onto a database. At present, the UK’s database used by police is only searched for close possible relatives such as parents, children or siblings to match a suspect’s DNA.''
.....................................................................................
''The Home Office-commissioned report advised that “unregulated” practice of genetic genealogy database should only be used if necessary and when other methods have been exhausted, and once approved “by the appropriate body”.

The most popular databases, like Ancestry, do not allow police access to solve crime. Others like GEDmatch allow user opt-ins for serious crimes.''

 

[dotr]

I'm sure l posted about these murders before but l can't find a thread!

Some posts about the varied cold cases got in the mix, re-posting together,

UK - UK- Lynda Farrow, 29, pregnant, Battered/throat slashed @ home, Woodford Green, London, March 1979

Kelly-Ann Mills Jan 2022 rbbm https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/manhunt-detective-thinks-playboy-bunny-25884014 ''The detective who brought down killer Levi Bellfield and was the subject of ITV drama Manhunt is convinced the Playboy Bunny killer has a third victim. Eve Stratford's horrific...

www.websleuths.com

UK- Carol Clarke, 32, from Bristol, last seen entering car, found strangled & neck broken, Sharpness Docks, Gloucestershire, 28 Mar 1983 *arrest 2023*

Police have received “new and significant information” in the murder of Carol Clarke ( Image: Gloucestershire Constabulary / S) By Martin FrickerSenior Reporter 28 Mar 2023 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-re-open-cold-case-29574009 ''Police have reopened the case of a woman murdered...

www.websleuths.com

UK - UK- Margaret Lightfoot, 48, walking dog in Epping Forest, found nude & strangled with dog leash, Loughton, 24 Nov. '75 *DNA*

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38347852 By Danny Shaw 2016 rbbm. ''A dedicated team of British detectives is working to solve cold case murders. And with advances in forensic science, they are hoping to bring some of the killers to justice. At midday, on 24 November 1975, Margaret Lightfoot left...

www.websleuths.com

UK - UK- Deborah "Debbie" Linsley, 26, brutally stabbed to death, enroute from Wood train station to London Victoria service, 23/03/88, *photofit & DNA*

by Holly Evans 16 APR 2022 rbbm. https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/brutal-murder-woman-26-south-23659459 ''Deborah Linsley, known as Debbie to her friends and family, had relocated from Bromley to Edinburgh in the years before her murder, where she worked as a hotel manager. She...

www.websleuths.com

UK - UK- Joy Hewer, 50, Teacher/church volunteer, sexually assaulted & fatally stabbed in chest, apartment set on fire, Walthamstow, 17 Oct.1995 *REWARD*

BY ELLIE MCKINNELL, CALLUM CUDDEFORD April 2022 rbbm https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/unsolved-murder-walthamstow-teacher-found-23568878.amp ''Devout Christian Joy was found dead in her own home on October 17, 1995, after firefighters were called to a fire in her flat on the...

www.websleuths.com

UK - UK- Beverley Trendall, 37, stabbed in the heart @home, diaries stolen, Ealing, West London,31 October 1984

Lengthy article. https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/i-havent-forgotten-her-unsolved-19811409 By James Twomey 14 FEB 2021 rbbm ''On Halloween in 1984, a murder mystery ripped through West London which remains unsolved to this day. The case of Beverley Trendall, a 37 year old woman...

www.websleuths.com

UK - UK- Caroline Harris-Reed, 22, student teacher, sexually assaulted & fatally stabbed @ friend's flat, Stockwell, South London, 22 Apr 1981 *SKETCH*

www.thetimes.co.uk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_murders_in_the_United_Kingdom_(1980s) ''Student-teacher Caroline Harris-Reed was murdered in the flat she was sharing with a 22-year-old nurse. Police issued an artist's impression of the perpetrator, who forced his way into the...

www.websleuths.com

UK - Carol Clark,32,found dead and partially clothed at Sharpness Docks on Sunday 28 March 1993

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-65087953?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=BCA37D86-CD34-11ED-A2EE-43E54744363C&at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=social&at_bbc_team=e...

www.websleuths.com

................................................................................................................................

UK - UK- Eve Stratford, 21, Bunny @ Playboy Club, posed for mag. cover, later her mutilated & grotesquely staged body found @ home, London 18/03/75 *DNA*

By Holly Evans November 2022 rbbm. lengthy article. https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/shocking-murder-playboy-bunny-found-25575453 ''In a case described as one of the most horrific seen by detectives, the sadistic murder of a German model shocked everyone who knew her. Eve...

www.websleuths.com

CONNECTED BY PERP'S DNA

UK - UK- Lynne Weedon, 16, Out with friends @The Elm disco, found raped/bludgeoned in ''The Short Hedges.'' alleyway, London, 3 Sept, 1975 *DNA*

Jan 2022 By Kelly-Ann Mills https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/playboy-bunny-killer-also-raped-25873052 ''Two murders of two young women, one a 16-year-old schoolgirl and other a Playboy Bunny who had posed nude for Mayfair, were both carried out by the same man. Nothing would have linked...

www.websleuths.com

.....................................................................................................................................

 

[MarziPanda]

I know various UK agencies are looking into genetic genealogy and its legal and ethical implications. Not just the police. Perhaps now that we're not in the EU, the privacy laws are more flexible. I know this technique has been used in a couple of European countries. Can't remember if that was Sweden (in the EU) or Norway (not in the EU) though.

 

[cherrymeg]

I was wondering about that, too. Since the ectopic did not yet rupture (which would be a serious emergency) but was at bleeding amd cramping stage, she may have intetpreted it as her period. Yes an ectopic hurts in a different place and it is agonizing, but at 6 weeks it still borderline. She may not have been aware of her pregnancy at all, it looks like she had no access to any healthcare or did not want to.
Maybe she did not work and live legally in the UK and was afraid to use any nhs facility since they would surely question her.

Could she have thought she was miscarrying or thought she was having a particularly bad period. Ectopic pregnancies are sometimes missed by doctors especially without an ultrasound. At 6 weeks you might not even know you are pregnant. I remember my mom talking about how home pregnancy tests were more complicated and maybe harder to read in the early 80s. Did the UK have clinics that didn’t care if you were legal in the 70’s? I don’t know about the UK health care system. I barely understand mine lol. In the earlier 2000s I know there were free STD and pregnancy testing clinics or they offered sliding scale prices. They offered birth control and gyno services. That was in the US and in a small city area. Sometimes if you have been pregnant before you notice future pregnancies sooner. I wonder if she would have sought medical care somewhere.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Unidentified female 1979 UK

Clipping found in Tunbridge Wells Courier published in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England on 10/26/1979. Unidentified female 1979 UK

www.newspapers.com

Unidentified female 1979 UK

Clipping found in Tunbridge Wells Courier published in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England on 11/2/1979. Unidentified female 1979 UK

www.newspapers.com

Unidentified female 1979 UK

Clipping found in Daily Mirror published in London, London, England on 2/18/1980. Unidentified female 1979 UK

www.newspapers.com

Unidentified female 1979 UK

Clipping found in Sevenoaks Chronicle published in Sevenoaks, Kent, England on 4/12/1980. Unidentified female 1979 UK

www.newspapers.com

Unidentified female 1979 UK

Clipping found in Tunbridge Wells Courier published in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England on 10/17/1980. Unidentified female 1979 UK

www.newspapers.com

 

[Captain Beck]

I know various UK agencies are looking into genetic genealogy and its legal and ethical implications. Not just the police. Perhaps now that we're not in the EU, the privacy laws are more flexible. I know this technique has been used in a couple of European countries. Can't remember if that was Sweden (in the EU) or Norway (not in the EU) though.

Probably Sweden, Swedish police used forensic genetic genealogy to solve a child rape case and a double homicide but then the technique was put on hold for privacy reasons. Not sure what the status is on that now.

 

[dotr]

Probably Sweden, Swedish police used forensic genetic genealogy to solve a child rape case and a double homicide but then the technique was put on hold for privacy reasons. Not sure what the status is on that now.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497321000636

by A Tillmar · 2021 rbbm

''On the morning of October 19, 2004, an eight-year-old boy and a 56-year-old woman were stabbed to death on an open street in the city of Linköping, Sweden. The perpetrator left his DNA at the crime scene, and after 15 years of various investigation efforts, including more than 9000 interrogations and mass DNA screening of more than 6000 men, there were still no clues about the identity of the unknown murderer. The successful application of investigative genetic genealogy (IGG) in the US raised the interest for this tool within the Swedish Police Authority. After legal consultations it was decided that IGG could be applied in this double murder case as a pilot case study. From extensive DNA analysis, including whole-genome sequencing and genotype imputation, DNA data sets were established and searched within both GEDmatch and FamilyTree DNA genealogy databases. A number of fairly distant relatives were found from which family trees were created. The genealogy work resulted in two candidates, two brothers, one of whom matched the crime scene samples by routine STR profiling. The suspect confessed the murders at the initial police hearing and was later convicted of the murders. In this paper we describe the successful application of an emerging technology. We disclose details of the DNA analyses which, due to the poor quality and low quantity of the DNA, required reiterative sequencing and genotype imputation efforts. The successful application of IGG in this double murder case exemplifies its applicability not only in the US but also in Europe. The pressure is now high on the involved authorities to establish IGG as a tool for cold case criminal investigations and for missing person identifications. There is, however, a continuous need to accommodate legal, social and ethical aspects as well.''

 

[alb1on]

I know various UK agencies are looking into genetic genealogy and its legal and ethical implications. Not just the police. Perhaps now that we're not in the EU, the privacy laws are more flexible. I know this technique has been used in a couple of European countries. Can't remember if that was Sweden (in the EU) or Norway (not in the EU) though.

There is an excellent UK government review of this issue at https://assets.publishing.service.g...7f7237cf3e59/BFEG_Genetic_Genealogy_Final.pdf. This clearly identifies that the legal issues derive from matters outside the rules of the EU. Very interestingly it also discusses in detail the availability of databases for comparisons and the likely success rates.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

If the Jane Doe murdered in Bedgebury Forest in 1979 is buried in an unmarked grave in Tunbridge Wells why have the Police not exhumed her body and used latest DNA techniques to try and establish who she was?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

If she was dropped off by the lorry driver at the Dutch House Pub in Eltham (London) how did she end up being battered to death in a rural forest 40 miles away on the Kent/Sussex border less than 15 minutes away from where the lorry driver lived (using the info from this newspaper article)?

 

[MarziPanda]

If the Jane Doe murdered in Bedgebury Forest in 1979 is buried in an unmarked grave in Tunbridge Wells why have the Police not exhumed her body and used latest DNA techniques to try and establish who she was?

The UK doesn't use genetic genealogy at the moment because of privacy laws/red tape. So there's likely nothing that exhuming her would tell them until they change that.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The UK doesn't use genetic genealogy at the moment because of privacy laws/red tape. So there's likely nothing that exhuming her would tell them until they change that.

Would an organisation such as Locate International based in the UK use such a technique?

 

[Fake Protagonist]

Would an organisation such as Locate International based in the UK use such a technique?

I believe there's a governmental ban on using genetic genealogy to identify the deceased. Like it's straight up illegal in the UK if I recall correctly.

 

[MarziPanda]

Would an organisation such as Locate International based in the UK use such a technique?

No - genetic genealogy is done by specialist organisations which are fairly new. Such as Othram or DNA Doe Project. Anyone looking to do this technique needs the specialist lab training and an expert in genetic genealogy, and it's not cheap either. It's not something a charity/nonprofit can just decide to do (not least because of the legal issues but also because it really needs specialists who know what they're doing).

Othram has offered in the past to do work on another UK case (Angel of the Meadow) but the UK red tape more or less prevents this. Please read up thread where this has been discussed. There was talk of piloting the technique in the UK but I've heard nothing since then.

 

[dotr]

Noting, fwiw..
Sep 9, 2020

Should we be making use of genetic genealogy to assist in solving crime? A report on the feasibility of such methods in the UK (accessible version)

www.gov.uk

Lengthy article.

How police are using DNA from ancestry websites to catch murderers

Detectives working on cold cases are increasingly using genetic data uploaded by people tracing their family tree, raising ethical dilemmas

www.telegraph.co.uk

Boris Starling 2 October 2022
''Scotland Yard announced last month that it is planning to run an IGG trial here, though so far details remain sketchy. Debbie Kennett, a genealogist and expert in DNA at University College, London, is not convinced that we need it. She points to major differences between the USA and here, particularly “the problems in their criminal justice system. They have huge backlogs of untested sexual assault kits and tens of thousands of prisoners who have not been added to CODIS [Combined DNA Index System, America’s federal DNA database].

“They’re also not making good use of the familial searching technique which was pioneered in the UK and involves looking for close matches to the perpetrator in the criminal DNA database. Only a handful of US states use familial searching in their state DNA databases and it’s not permitted in the federal DNA database. A significant percentage of the US cases could have been solved years earlier without resorting to IGG if they had dealt with all the systemic problems and used familial searching.
“The UK DNA Database is very efficient, and most serious crimes will be solved using existing conventional methods. The hit rate [percentage of profiles which get a match when uploaded] in the UK database is 66 per cent compared to just 35 per cent in CODIS. This, of course, doesn’t mean that IGG wouldn’t have a role to play in the UK, but the number of cases where it might be used is likely to be smaller – perhaps a few hundred cases compared to tens of thousands of cases in the US.”