UK - Carla-Nicole Bone, 13 mos, beaten to death, Scotland, May 2002

[Details]

Financial Wealth doesn't make a person better... it is those people that have to work and stick together that learn responsibility. Look at Scott Peterson, everything was handed to him on a silver platter... so, i would have to disagree with that statement.

Yes, in an ideal world mom and dad should be married, own a home and have 2.5 kids. Maybe a dog and even a cat, but that doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.

I think as long as the child is in a home, where he/she is wanted, and loved.. that is all that matters.

And, not all single parents are "bed hopping" seeing what the new flavor of the day is... not everyone is like that.

And... as you stated: "out-of-wedlock, unwanted, etc. pregnancies"... yeah, maybe they should have used better birth control... and maybe they were using some... nothing is 100%, well except for not having sex. But, there are plenty of options... adoption is one. I guess it shouldn't matter how or why the child was conceived, he/she has every right to be loved, no child should ever have to think of themselves as an accident or unwanted.

Just my thoughts on it!

There are always the exceptions, the odd cases - but most single people who have kids weren't bothering with any birth control. An awful lot of them were drunk, some didn't care, others figured it's a way to get out of mom's house with the welfare check, or to get more money from the government. Sure, there are lots where they were fairly responsible, slipped up once, oops, I'm pregnant, and the guy is not someone I'd marry. I don't think that's the majority at all.

Financial issues - the difference isn't between having a hundai or a cadillac, a nice home or a small apartment, it's the difference between being on welfare or not, medical insurance or not, good food or not, a parent who works one job or a parent who works 3. Being married makes a huge, huge difference in a child's environment growing up - whether they grow up in a crime ridden ghetto where all the role models are successful gang leaders and the schools are out of control, or a more normal lower middle class location.

 

[SadieMae]

There are always the exceptions, the odd cases - but most single people who have kids weren't bothering with any birth control. An awful lot of them were drunk, some didn't care, others figured it's a way to get out of mom's house with the welfare check, or to get more money from the government. Sure, there are lots where they were fairly responsible, slipped up once, oops, I'm pregnant, and the guy is not someone I'd marry. I don't think that's the majority at all.

Financial issues - the difference isn't between having a hundai or a cadillac, a nice home or a small apartment, it's the difference between being on welfare or not, medical insurance or not, good food or not, a parent who works one job or a parent who works 3. Being married makes a huge, huge difference in a child's environment growing up - whether they grow up in a crime ridden ghetto where all the role models are successful gang leaders and the schools are out of control, or a more normal lower middle class location.

Can't say I agree with everything Details. There are thousands of married WORKING people who do not have health insurance. Many of these two working parent families barely can buy groceries after paying other bills. My father is from a single parent family of eight who grew up the projects of an inner city, and he and every one of his siblings has a 4 year college degree or higher. As far as a "more normal" lower middle class location, I don't understand what that's got to do with a child's upbring? Those neighborhoods have as much or more alcohol and drug abuse as the ghetto. What's normal about kids from a married middle class household shooting teachers and students in schools in mass shooting sprees? Those stories weren't about single parent ghetto kids doing that. In general I don't think it makes any difference if a child is raised in a two parent or single parent household. It depends on the commitment the parent/s have in raising their children to be decent human beings, and showing them by example. I raised two sons alone, not easy, didn't live in the greatest of neighborhoods, didnt always have enough to pay all the bills for the month, but they have never been into drugs, alcohol or trouble with the law. They are now a sophmore and freshman in college. They were taught to be honest, decent, and hardworking by my example of living it everyday.

 

[jannuncutt]

Can't say I agree with everything Details. There are thousands of married WORKING people who do not have health insurance. Many of these two working parent families barely can buy groceries after paying other bills. My father is from a single parent family of eight who grew up the projects of an inner city, and he and every one of his siblings has a 4 year college degree or higher. As far as a "more normal" lower middle class location, I don't understand what that's got to do with a child's upbring? Those neighborhoods have as much or more alcohol and drug abuse as the ghetto. What's normal about kids from a married middle class household shooting teachers and students in schools in mass shooting sprees? Those stories weren't about single parent ghetto kids doing that. In general I don't think it makes any difference if a child is raised in a two parent or single parent household. It depends on the commitment the parent/s have in raising their children to be decent human beings, and showing them by example. I raised two sons alone, not easy, didn't live in the greatest of neighborhoods, didnt always have enough to pay all the bills for the month, but they have never been into drugs, alcohol or trouble with the law. They are now a sophmore and freshman in college. They were taught to be honest, decent, and hardworking by my example of living it everyday.

SadieMae,
Thank you so very much - I just didn't have the patience to go there. You speak for me, also. :blowkiss:

 

[Details]

Can't say I agree with everything Details. There are thousands of married WORKING people who do not have health insurance. Many of these two working parent families barely can buy groceries after paying other bills. My father is from a single parent family of eight who grew up the projects of an inner city, and he and every one of his siblings has a 4 year college degree or higher. As far as a "more normal" lower middle class location, I don't understand what that's got to do with a child's upbring? Those neighborhoods have as much or more alcohol and drug abuse as the ghetto. What's normal about kids from a married middle class household shooting teachers and students in schools in mass shooting sprees? Those stories weren't about single parent ghetto kids doing that. In general I don't think it makes any difference if a child is raised in a two parent or single parent household. It depends on the commitment the parent/s have in raising their children to be decent human beings, and showing them by example. I raised two sons alone, not easy, didn't live in the greatest of neighborhoods, didnt always have enough to pay all the bills for the month, but they have never been into drugs, alcohol or trouble with the law. They are now a sophmore and freshman in college. They were taught to be honest, decent, and hardworking by my example of living it everyday.

The stats say differently. There is more crime, more drugs in the ghetto (which I am using as a shorthand for the low income high crime high drug areas). I was raised in that lower middle class zone - there is not anywhere near the same level of drugs, crime, general violence there.

Yeah, lots of working married people don't have medical insurance. But more of them have it than single parents. The statistics are clear. And all of these things do make a difference - just because some middle or upper income raised kids have problems, do horrible things doesn't mean that there's no problem or fewer problems being raised in an impoverished, socially destroyed area. All the stats are the same - the kids growing up there learn about society from their environment. Some few make it out but a huge number have nothing to do but join the gangs, use the drugs, go nowhere.

There are problems everywhere, but being able to raise your kids outside of the urban warzones makes a huge difference, and being married, having two parents rather than just one is better for the kids. You can do it with just one - but it's harder and so many people will fail at it, with the kids the innocent victims of that failure.

My mom was a single parent - I'm not putting them down - I'm saying being married is a much, much better situation for everyone - parents, kids, society. Having kids without being married, having some committment is a bad idea that should be avoided. And in a lot of areas, it's a pattern that continues generation after generation - drug using mother has kids randomly with random guys, barely 'raises' them at all, they're exposed to drugs all around them, grow up to be another drug using mother or irresponsible druggie sperm donor.



Everything has it's exception - there is the rare accident where a seatbelt costs a life rather than saving it; there are people who can start and stop smoking without much trouble; etc. But on the average, the most common cases are what I am talking about.

 

[docwho3]

:furious: :sick: :sick:

There isn't a punishment harsh enough for
such a crime.
I feel sick.

Sure there is . . . . .and God knows what it is.

 

[SadieMae]

The stats say differently. There is more crime, more drugs in the ghetto (which I am using as a shorthand for the low income high crime high drug areas). I was raised in that lower middle class zone - there is not anywhere near the same level of drugs, crime, general violence there.

Yeah, lots of working married people don't have medical insurance. But more of them have it than single parents. The statistics are clear. And all of these things do make a difference - just because some middle or upper income raised kids have problems, do horrible things doesn't mean that there's no problem or fewer problems being raised in an impoverished, socially destroyed area. All the stats are the same - the kids growing up there learn about society from their environment. Some few make it out but a huge number have nothing to do but join the gangs, use the drugs, go nowhere.

There are problems everywhere, but being able to raise your kids outside of the urban warzones makes a huge difference, and being married, having two parents rather than just one is better for the kids. You can do it with just one - but it's harder and so many people will fail at it, with the kids the innocent victims of that failure.

My mom was a single parent - I'm not putting them down - I'm saying being married is a much, much better situation for everyone - parents, kids, society. Having kids without being married, having some committment is a bad idea that should be avoided. And in a lot of areas, it's a pattern that continues generation after generation - drug using mother has kids randomly with random guys, barely 'raises' them at all, they're exposed to drugs all around them, grow up to be another drug using mother or irresponsible druggie sperm donor.



Everything has it's exception - there is the rare accident where a seatbelt costs a life rather than saving it; there are people who can start and stop smoking without much trouble; etc. But on the average, the most common cases are what I am talking about.

I still don't agree. It just seems there is more drugs in the ghetto, because the addicts are on the streets there. The addicts from middle and upper incomes are in rehab centers. There probably are more drugs in the ghetto because people from middle and upper income levels BUY their drugs in the ghetto and return to their gated communities. Not all drug addicts LIVE in the ghetto. Drug dealing feeds families and pays bills as sad as that is. They have no job opportunities, no education, and it's fast easy money that comes with high risk.
As far as having kids without being married is totally irrelevant to parenting, IMO. Many of these single parents were MARRIED and through divorce were left without the financial means to support their children in the same lifestyle. I CHOSE not to get married, and I CHOSE when to have my children. If I waited for the "right" husband before having kids, well I'd still be waiting, there's no guarantee I'd still be married after having children, and I'm menopausal so I can't have any kids even if Mr. Right finally shows up. Your statement about the pattern of druggie moms having kids, and beginning a cycle of the same is very true and still goes back to what I so strongly believe....it only takes one committed parent to raise decent children. I know some children who DO have a father in the home, but he's never there, always working and not involved in their lives. He's basically just a paycheck to the household. Their mother is involved in her own selfish endeavors, she has not time for the kids either. One of their sons is in jail now for robbing a liquor store. There was absolutely no reason for him to do that.

 

[concernedperson]

Sadiemae, it just goes to prove different lifestyles aren't wrong they are just not the norm but it doesn't mean raising kids can't be achieved when there is a lot of love in the bucket.

 

[Details]

Different lifestyles have different odds of a good outcome. Doesn't mean you can't make even the worst lifestyle work, doesn't mean a good kid can't come from a completely absent druggie mother either. But there are other approaches that are better. Two parents increases the odds one is good.

My mom didn't have the best start for us either - and believe me, she wished she could have given us the full 2 parent family. She did fine, all of us went to college, many of us finished, and none of us had kids outside of marriage. She was quite clear about how much harder it was, about the problems to make sure that we were responsible when it came to sex. That's where I get my perspective from.

 

[concernedperson]

It doesn't mean because some kids aren't given the opportunity that they can't succeed, it just makes it a little harder.

 

[SadieMae]

It doesn't mean because some kids aren't given the opportunity that they can't succeed, it just makes it a little harder.

With that being said, there's no guarantee either a child from a two parent family who had everything opportunity given to them to succeed will not end up in prison. You just never know where a child's life will go. That's pretty scary.

 

[concernedperson]

With that being said, there's no guarantee either a child from a two parent family who had everything opportunity given to them to succeed will not end up in prison. You just never know where a child's life will go. That's pretty scary.

I can tell you that my daughter is extremely successful and she had a different parental situation.She had a mom that loved her unequivably and fathers that set examples that were questionable. She still doesn't have a clue about motives but I do. We will be spending Thanksgiving with her biological father in 2 days. I can't wait to report the dynamics..it could be a bust or it could be something that I need to learn from too.

 

[lilpony]

You know what, I can't even read these casing involving child abuse anymore. It makes me instantly ill. I have read a few tonight. But not anymore. This world has some sick people in it. I hope they all rot in hell!

 

[SadieMae]

You know what, I can't even read these casing involving child abuse anymore. It makes me instantly ill. I have read a few tonight. But not anymore. This world has some sick people in it. I hope they all rot in hell!

I feel the same Lilpony. I just cannot nor will I ever understand how an adult can abuse and inflict pain any child, especially their own. My brain just can't comprehend or wrap around that! Even in my most devious thoughts I could never go there.

 

[Details]

It doesn't mean because some kids aren't given the opportunity that they can't succeed, it just makes it a little harder.

Nope, it sure doesn't. A kid with the worst possible upbringing can succeed incredibly, become a wonderful person who has a positive effect on everything around them, and a kid with the best possible upbringing, perfect parents who say no as needed can turn out to be a serial killer, horrible person. A great single parent is better than two really lousy parents too.

All I'm saying is that the odds are better with two parents. I'm talking the averages - that takes nothing away from the exceptions.


I don't know if it helps anyone else, but when reading about these cases I try to remember that the news reports what is rare - the worst that occurs among the millions of children in the United States. Doesn't make this case any better, but it doesn't represent most kids experiences. For me, remembering the statistics does really help. Not to mention that things are getting better - we're hearing about it more, but it's happening less over the past several decades. Society and life keep getting better, and we hear about these tragedies because we have time for them now. Before it was all the thousands of lives destroyed by polio or the threat that we'd be destroyed by a war and so many many young men being killed in the fighting, people starving to death. As huge problems go away they stop obscuring the next level of problems and those are finally available to be recognized and solved. Horrible thing happen, but the level of progress being made is huge.

 

[ariel7]

Sure there is . . . . .and God knows what it is.

Yes, you're right.
I meant on earth, but thanks for reminding
me.

love,

Ariel

 

[Details]

I think there is on earth too - just being that kind of person, living in that mind, no real love, no real connections, nothing real at all, and sooner or later you get caught - I think they pay, even if never in any way they would admit or maybe even recognize.

 

[Sherry67]

On the flip side of this.....I work at a hospital that allows employees and Physicians to use the Daycare they provide. It's a very good daycare and I felt very comfortable using it. However, there were lot's of Dr. s kids there where "mom" didn't work - but shoved the kids in daycare for 8 - 10 hours per day - so she could "do her own thing" all day long. I totally disagree with this also. I feel this is neglect too.

 

[AlwaysHope]

I still don't agree. It just seems there is more drugs in the ghetto, because the addicts are on the streets there. The addicts from middle and upper incomes are in rehab centers. There probably are more drugs in the ghetto because people from middle and upper income levels BUY their drugs in the ghetto and return to their gated communities. Not all drug addicts LIVE in the ghetto. Drug dealing feeds families and pays bills as sad as that is. They have no job opportunities, no education, and it's fast easy money that comes with high risk.
As far as having kids without being married is totally irrelevant to parenting, IMO. Many of these single parents were MARRIED and through divorce were left without the financial means to support their children in the same lifestyle. I CHOSE not to get married, and I CHOSE when to have my children. If I waited for the "right" husband before having kids, well I'd still be waiting, there's no guarantee I'd still be married after having children, and I'm menopausal so I can't have any kids even if Mr. Right finally shows up. Your statement about the pattern of druggie moms having kids, and beginning a cycle of the same is very true and still goes back to what I so strongly believe....it only takes one committed parent to raise decent children. I know some children who DO have a father in the home, but he's never there, always working and not involved in their lives. He's basically just a paycheck to the household. Their mother is involved in her own selfish endeavors, she has not time for the kids either. One of their sons is in jail now for robbing a liquor store. There was absolutely no reason for him to do that.

THANK YOU!

 

[docwho3]

Yes, you're right.
I meant on earth, but thanks for reminding
me.

love,

Ariel

You are welcome. You seemed upset (and rightly so) about the whole thing so I offered my remark with the intent of being supportive.
It is something I have to remind myself sometimes when I read bad cases.