Found Deceased UK - Caroline Everest, 18, Sheffield, 22 Nov 2015

[Tortoise]

I am wondering if she kind of knew him and he offered her a lift:

They were together outside the Dev Cat, which would have been closed. There is not much else round there, and not that many places to go at 3am. So, why did she walk towards Dev Cat, it's the wrong direction for both her flat and the area she was found. Did he offer her a lift? I'd have expected a whole lot more CCTV if they walked from the club to Napier Street, maybe there is some and we've not been shown. But they could have been anywhere in a car in the 54 minutes we don't know about.

I may have got it wrong but isn't the Devonshire Cat going the right way towards where she lived?

 

[skibaboo]

I was wondering about Caroline leaving the club alone and this man starting up a conversation with her and as she walks away he walks along with her - whether she likes it or not?

I just took my Mum across her dinner, she always watches the local news. They were talking about Caroline when I was there, I don't have a link as this was live on TV, the reporter was standing next to the brook on Summerfield Street, which at this time of evening looked rather busy (lots of cars going past), something he said makes me believe something similar to what you say, he said Caroline left the Corporation nightclub, and 1 minute later is spotted with a man outside the Devonshire Cat pub. Idk it's how he said it, like she left the club alone and the man approached her outside the pub.

Maybe she was followed out of the club, an opportunist attacker?

 

[ColourPurple]

I know this has bee touched upon already but to use the phrase "parted company" when describing Caroline and the man, to me at least implies it was an amicable end to a meeting

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To me "parting company" is a neutral term, devoid of any emotional descriptions that might describe what actually happened...i.e. it doesn't give anything away. It doesn't say whether they appeared to argue or whether they hugged and left on friendly terms, it leaves it open to interpretation.

 

[NatalieLouiseXx]

Police appeal for witnesses after body of Caroline Everest is confirmed

https://southsheffstory.wordpress.c...-after-body-of-caroline-everest-is-confirmed/


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[Ironside]

I was quite surprised there was an arrest, I assumed this was an accident. Wish it was an accident.

It could be plausible that she met this guy they had consensual sex somewhere and then she "parted company" with him, fell in and died of hypothermia as so many students have done before. It does sound like something Pacteau would claim happened and the recent rapes makes it worrying.

 

[ColourPurple]

Article dated 18th October, 2015

Two rape attacks on young women in the Arundel Gate area of Sheffield on two consecutive days (nights). This is where Caroline's halls of res are situated. Both attacks took place around 2 to 3 in the early hours of the morning.

http://www.heart.co.uk/yorkshire/news/local/2-rape-in-sheffield-in-2-days/#Ug6Xf4bliumTtU83.97

"Extra patrols are being carried out in the area as enquiries continue."


I wonder if stepping up patrols in that area prompted the rapist/s to target another area, the one where Caroline ended up that night.

 

[annablume]

Maybe she was followed out of the club, an opportunist attacker?

and 2 recent rapes in centre paints a bleak picture.

 

[ColourPurple]

ETA: he did have consensual sex with her and had nothing to hide and pointed the police in the direction to where they left one another. Carrie died accidently by falling in or threw herself in because she was ashamed of her behavior.

I have to completely disagree with your theory and I feel like it verges on victim shaming.

How? In that theory there isn't even a victim of a crime as the sex was consensual!

 

[sar2them1984]

To me "parting company" is a neutral term, devoid of any emotional descriptions that might describe what actually happened...i.e. it doesn't give anything away. It doesn't say whether they appeared to argue or whether they hugged and left on friendly terms, it leaves it open to interpretation.

Hmm perhaps it's an area thing.. by me we'd say parted company for an amicable/sociable ending to a meeting and something along the lines of "went their separate ways" for a meeting that ends abruptly/not too amicably...

I guess it is intentionally amiguous.

The press release states the man was identified after "extensive enquiries" were undertaken. I'm presuming these must have been done on foot in the local vicinity as I've not seen anything relating to police wanting help with identifying anyone prior to this man's arrest

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[Amonet]

I may have got it wrong but isn't the Devonshire Cat going the right way towards where she lived?

No, the Devonshire Cat is 1 minute north of The Corporation (same street).

Caroline needed to go 15 minutes east.

After the Devonshire Cat she actually ended up 15 minutes west

*all times by foot.

Someone may have mentioned a taxi rank up by the Devonshire Cat?

 

[ColourPurple]

I was wondering about Caroline leaving the club alone and this man starting up a conversation with her and as she walks away he walks along with her - whether she likes it or not?

That's very like what happened in the Hannah Graham case He saw her walking alone, in the early hours and went over to talk to her and walked with her, even looked like he had his arm round her at one point.

 

[ColourPurple]

I am wondering if she kind of knew him and he offered her a lift:

They were together outside the Dev Cat, which would have been closed. There is not much else round there, and not that many places to go at 3am. So, why did she walk towards Dev Cat, it's the wrong direction for both her flat and the area she was found. Did he offer her a lift? I'd have expected a whole lot more CCTV if they walked from the club to Napier Street, maybe there is some and we've not been shown. But they could have been anywhere in a car in the 54 minutes we don't know about.

Yes there does seem to be a big gap in CCTV between the Devonshire Cat and Napier Street which a car journey might explain.

 

[mrazda71]

Not victim shaming at all. Offering an alternative suggestion as to how he was located so quickly and she ended up in the Brook. Literally just bouncing ideas and expliations around.

I offered another explanation that you ignored.

We have very few answers including an inconclusive PM and Someone arrested on SUSPICION of rape.

It's about as plausible as alien abductions though

How many other cases can you recall where someone had consensual sex then felt ashamed and "threw themselves" into a body of water, over railings or a wall but didn't die from either drowning or impact injury?

 

[mrazda71]

The fact that this man has been arrested on suspicion of rape is enough for me to find it plausible that she WAS raped and didn't just have consensual sex! She's not alive is she so there MUST be SOME evidence to suggest a rape took place?

 

[Tortoise]

I was quite surprised there was an arrest, I assumed this was an accident. Wish it was an accident.

It could be plausible that she met this guy they had consensual sex somewhere and then she "parted company" with him, fell in and died of hypothermia as so many students have done before. It does sound like something Pacteau would claim happened and the recent rapes makes it worrying.

The only thing I find puzzling with that scenario is that she wasn't heading towards home, so it seems she might have been just trying to get away rather than going back the way she needed to to get home.

 

[Amonet]

I don't want to backseat mod, but as they do have someone arrested on suspicion of rape, could we just put the suggestion of consensual sex aside until we hear different from an official source?

 

[ColourPurple]

I was quite surprised there was an arrest, I assumed this was an accident. Wish it was an accident.


It could be plausible that she met this guy they had consensual sex somewhere and then she "parted company" with him, fell in and died of hypothermia as so many students have done before. It does sound like something Pacteau would claim happened and the recent rapes makes it worrying.

It's a weird one isn't it. Police are suspecting rape so I think it's safe to say the PM showed sex had taken place. But there are so many variables like


1. Sex may have been consensual between the man and Caroline and then she was attacked and murdered by someone else, or died from accident,exposure,suicide after they parted company.
2. The man may have raped her before they parted company and then she died afterwards either by accident, exposure, suicide or by being murdered by someone else.
3. The man may have taken a short cut after they parted company and then intercepted her in a CCTV free area and raped and killed her or raped her then left her she died through accident, exposure, suicide
4. There may have been no sexual contact between Caroline and the man and she may have left him then fell victim to somebody else who either killed her as well as raping her or left her to die from exposure


The easiest option to imagine seems to be that the man on CCTV is the one who raped and killed her but after two men being charged with two different crimes in the Kayleigh Haywood case, maybe something similar has happened here.

 

[ColourPurple]

The fact that this man has been arrested on suspicion of rape is enough for me to find it plausible that she WAS raped and didn't just have consensual sex! She's not alive is she so there MUST be SOME evidence to suggest a rape took place?

Yes there might be obvious evidence of rape or maybe evidence of sexual activity and her being dead could be enough to arrest him on suspicion of rape. They have CCTV of them parting company and they have her body so they can't arrest him on suspicion of kidnap, which they may have done had she not been found and if they'd only got CCTV of them together.

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't want to backseat mod, but as they do have someone arrested on suspicion of rape, could we just put the suggestion of consensual sex aside until we hear different from an official source?

If that is an official websleuths rule then I will of course stop discussion of consensual sex but if it isn't then I don't see anything wrong in discussing the possibility that she may have had consensual sex that night rather or even as well as being raped. Just because somebody is questioned on suspicion of rape doesn't always mean that police are 100% sure that rape definitely occurred. I agree that she could well have been raped; it does seem likely.

 

[Elainera]

I want to thank everyone here for the interesting and civil discussion, the insight, the maps, etc!

I feel very sad this happened to this lovely young woman

Do you think she could have been raped and then taken her own life because of the rape? Though not likely that she'd have medication to do that with her and any other method would have shown up on the PM. Would hypothermia show up on a first PM?

We have discussed hypothermia in so many cases but, for the life of me, I can't remember if it can be determined conclusively upon autopsy? I'm thinking so but will defer to other posters' opinions.

ETA: Not very clear cut...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/976901

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/260371558_Postmortem_diagnosis_of_hypothermia

http://www.archivesofpathology.org/doi/pdf/10.1043/1543-2165(2006)130[1297:HAHMIO]2.0.CO;2

Since the autopsy did not show an obvious cause of death I believe there can only be two causes: hypothermia, or some kind of drug. I'm sure samples are being tested for drugs and toxins now. Only if/when they come back negative will the coroner turn to hypothermia as a probable cause of death.

Hypothermia does not leave any signs in a body, the determination is made by way of excluding all other causes and taking circumstances into consideration.

I think it is quite likely she died of hypothermia that night, it doesn't need to be freezing for it to occur.

My theory at the moment is that after the rape she might have been so freaked out that she just tried to get to the next major road to get help, or maybe to a hospital or doctor she knew? Is there a hospital in the area? She might have been confused and irrational, and maybe she was drunk as well, and walked aimlessly, scared. Is it possible she climbed over the wall down to the water to wash herself? Might she have passed out and lay in the cold, maybe even in the water (without drowning) and died from hypothermia? I can even see a scenario where she was so crushed by what just happened that she just sat there by/in the water, cold and shivering, but unable to get up and walk home, and just fell asleep at some point, and didn't wake up again. Possible?

Yes there does seem to be a big gap in CCTV between the Devonshire Cat and Napier Street which a car journey might explain.

The gap in time must have been when she was raped?