I got the impression she was conveying that when she woke up, Victoria was as dead as a doornail.
No doubt this point will be explored with her in cross-examination. "Did it occur to you to seek help?" etc.
UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6
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No doubt this point will be explored with her in cross-examination. "Did it occur to you to seek help?" etc.
Alyce
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I'm updating my timeline again, as we've had a meaty day of defence from CM. New changes in bold. If I've missed anything let me know so I can edit it in.
- 1974 - MG born in Birmingham, the youngest of 7 children, to mum Sylvia
- ~1985 - MG, 11, and family move to Hollywood, Florida
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset. Her parents are Napier and Virginie Marten (nee Camu, later de Selliers).
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- Unspecified point in CM's childhood - there is an unspecified "traumatic event" involving one of her family members, first cited in CM's court defence, with no further details given.
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury.
- 6-18 months in 2006-7 (dates unclear, reports vary) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds. While studying there, she gets a fixed penalty notice for shoplifting a t-shirt, but this is her only conviction to date. She describes this as a 'silly prank'.
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010 - CM's paternal grandmother dies, triggering a dispute about her will. CM states in court that her will was disposed of and a letter of wishes was used instead, against her GM's wishes. CM expresses bitterness that she was treated differently to her brothers, who had had houses bought for them.
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- 2012 - CM cuts off contact with her family, according to her defence statement, though her social media showed her continuing to be friends with her brother's partner / future sister in law until 2016.
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son. At the time of CM's disappearance, he is reported to be a film and music producer.
- June 2013-14 - According to her LinkedIn, CM works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work. In her court defence, she also mentions having worked as a nanny around this time.
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2014 - CM and MG meet in an Indian shop that sold incense. MG is reported to live near her and be working as a labourer. CM starts to cut off family and friends (note: previously reported to be 2016, CM stated in her defence it was 2014)
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG go travelling together and marry in Peru, but claim that this marriage was not recognised in the UK. No proof of this marriage is produced, nor whether it was a marriage legally recognised in Peru.
- June 2017 - CM pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- unspecified time later, it emerges they are living, while pregnant, in a flimsy festival-style tent with black bin bags containing clothing and bottles of urine. The social worker who saw it described it as bowing under the rainwater and smelling stale. CM told SS that living in a tent had been her idea, and that she had nappies and babygrows, but was informed that this was insufficient. She was told to arrange housing, and that if she didn't a court order would be sought. CM promised to arrange for housing and state benefits.
- late 2017, when 8.5 months pregnant - CM's trust fund is cut off overnight. It had been paying £50 per week. CM then writes a "stern email" to the trustees, saying they have a duty of care. Payments are increased to £1700 per month.
- late 2017 - CM goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law. CM later says she posed as a traveller because she thought this would mean she'd get social housing. CM states in court that she moved to Wales to evade her family, who had hired private detectives.
- Supervision order made, allowing CM and MG to care for the baby under the supervision of SS, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into "a number of" mother and baby foster care placements. CM warned twice about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her.
- 2018 - FF's interim care order is discharged
- Late 2018 - GG is born in Wales (or London, sources differ). The birth takes place at home, in a birthing pool. Social services become involved again. CM starts to receive £2000, increased from £1700, from her trust fund.
- 2019 (?) - CM falls from a window. Details are unclear, but this is later determined to be an incident of domestic violence. CM & MG also evade an investigation by SS into the wellbeing of the children.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings, and at the same time Napier Marten starts an application for wardship of FF and GG - it is unclear what the aim of Napier's action was, as it's a tool rarely used since 1989. CM claims in police interview that SS removed her children after MG was blamed for her falling out of a window. She also revealed that her family were involved with SS and had hired private investigators "trying to get involved with my children".
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- June 2020 - Baby HH is born. MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- CM and MG have contact with all three (later four) children. They are noted to have "interacted well" at the session, but their attendance is "inconsistent", at one point going 4 months without contact. The children are affected by this, with one child described as "inconsolable" and telling staff "mummy and daddy cancelled again"
- Unknown date around this time - CM and MG are evicted from a property in Ilford.
- August 2020 - MG and CM are reported to be living on the Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich / Eltham, though it's unknown when they moved in. Neighbours report shouting, and the couple spending long periods of time elsewhere. NB: I believe the same property is variously referred to as being on the "Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich" and "in Eltham", though there is a possibility there were two homes very close together.
- May 2021 - CM is pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare, but refuses to share medical records.
- II is born; the exact date is unclear. There is a court hearing regarding the care of the older children, and they are offered a video link but decide to attend in person. They are told that II is not ready to be discharged, but if they leave without II it will be recorded as an abandonment. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children and they are adopted. At this point MG and CM will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- Unspecified point, presumably around this time - an unspecified legal dispute with CM's family means that MG's passport is unclear. The nature of this legal dispute is unclear, but it prevents a plan to travel abroad prior to the birth.
- August / September 2022 (sources differ) - MG and CM withdraw £15,000 cash, are evicted, and leave their property in Coldharbour Estate Greenwich / Eltham (they were evicted, but IMO: this coincides with when her bump started to show). They weren't paying rent, and left smoke damage and a collapsed ceiling behind them.
- September - December 2022 - live a nomadic lifestyle, staying in a series of Airbnbs. CM later claims, in police interview, that they tried not to stay in any one area for more than three days at a time, as that would give the local authority jurisdiction over Victoria. They planned to keep moving until they could find somewhere to rent in the countryside that accepted cash.
- From Sept 2022, CM starts(?) to claim a family trust fund. On the 20th, CM requests a £300 advance on the trust fund payment, normally £2500 per month. On 30th Sept, she receives the remaining £2200.
- Oct 2022 - requests another trust fund advance.
- Nov 2022 - CM receives £1200 from a trust fund for the storage of belongings.
- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund for the purchase of a car. Around this time, a further £13,596 is sent for camera equipment and a laptop, after CM said she wanted to start working again. The allowance also rises to £3400 per month. The total amount transferred to CM over this period is £47,886.
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed. They retain the placenta, planning to bury it.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Suzuki, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was on the M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester. CM withdraws £2000 cash from MetroBank - the maximum allowed. She states that this is because they want to remain untraceable.
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near J4 Bolton. CM was driving as MG couldn't drive. Around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta, 34 'burner' phones, bible, clothes, 5 used nappies, and a cat in a box.CM tells court that the sheer number of burner phones was because she believed her emails and phones were being hacked by private investigators hired by her family. The manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Debit card transactions cease; CM has £19,083 in her MetroBank account. The placenta is later confirmed to be that of a full-term. While placentas are hard to date, it is determined to be more than a couple of days old.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. After departing, staff notice a strong odour that they liken to rotting flesh. WS speculation: this was trench foot (MG was seen with bags over his shoes) or a post partum issue (infection?) from CM. They had had consistent access to bathrooms, so simply body odour is less likely. They move to the Fryatt Hotel that night. While in Harwich, they are recognised, and realised they are the subject of a media appeal. They change the plans from leaving the country, to getting a flat and lying low in London for a while.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of Fryatt Hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. They realise that getting a flat is unrealistic; “The problem with a flat if someone banged on the door there would be nowhere to run with Victoria. We realised our options were slowly diminishing so that is when we thought ‘let’s get a tent and lay low away from prying eyes'”. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, and either put baby in Lidl bag or carry her in a sling (disputed - CM says the baby was only placed in a Lidl bag after her death).
- 8 Jan 2023 - Shortly after midnight they ask taxi driver Abdirisakh Mohamud to take them to Tesco Extra Enfield. CM claims to be a Muslim using a hood and facemask as a hijab. MG claims to be doing the same because of a hair problem. The taxi driver becomes uneasy and drops the couple off prematurely on Green Lanes - presumably around the Green Lanes / Allison Road junction as they then catch another taxi, driven by Hasan Guzel, departing at 1.25am. During the journey, her phone pings and she asks to change the destination from Portsmouth to Newhaven. CM states that they wanted to be near a port in the hope that someone could smuggle them abroad, or they could rent a cottage with cash. The baby is heard "meowing". They arrive at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco Newhaven. 6.15am - seen walking along Cantercrow Hill towards fields with bag and tent.
- 8-11 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died, changing her story during questioning. CM claims she died when she was in her coat, and CM fell asleep, with the inference being that she suffocated. They both say they attempted resuscitation, but heard a "bubbling" noise from the lungs.
- Unknown date, after the baby died; CM says they discussed what to tell the police; MG told her to say it was a cot death, she was put to sleep on her front, not being held by CM, and when she woke up the baby had died.
- Unknown date / extended period: they carry the baby around in a Lidl bag, but variously claim the bag became too heavy to carry, that soil was added to mask the smell, and that they considered burying her but were too weak to dig. They consider suicide.
- 12 Jan, just after 6am - CM purchases petrol and snacks from the same Texaco in Newhaven. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 19 Jan - Napier Marten issues appeal for CM to turn herself in
- 21 Jan - Karen Satchell, half sister of MG, goes to press saying he was wrongly convicted of rape
- 16 Jan 2023 - 11.45am Nicholas Frost, a dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- Unknown date between 16-27 January, 10.30-2.30 - witness Sarah Hidden states she saw CM and MG in Seaford, on the path between Cuckmere Haven and South Barn car park, with them emerging from the buses. She states she was woken by a baby crying on the preceding two nights, sleeping with the windows open despite a (loud??) winter storm. She believes the sound to have been coming from around Seaford Head golf course.
- 8 Feb - Virginie de Selliers, CM's mum and a psychotherapist, issues an appeal for her to come forward
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane / Stanmer Park, Brighton (Coldean Lane runs through the park). Sighting in Stanmer Park around midday by witness Mary Thomsen.
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes. The witness, Pauline Mason, states in court that the baby was so pale she believes it was already dead. Her husband Michael Mason stated they went back later to look for evidence in bins and hedgerows, such as nappies or discarded clothing. However, they did not report the sighting until 1st March. Mr Mason also disclosed that Pauline was convinced that she saw the 1986 Babes in the Wood murder victims. WS member consensus: Pauline is not a convincing witness.
- 19 Feb - MG's mother Sylvia, who lives in Florida, goes to the papers saying he's a 'good boy', that he and CM had married in secret some time ago (no evidence of this is ever produced) and suggesting they could have been kidnapped.
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 22 Feb - CM and MG attend Brighton Food Bank. They receive some food, but don't ask for baby items, which are available.
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG go to Mulberry's Convenience Store and buy £20 worth of food in cash but no baby items. Shortly afterwards, they are arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found at the back of a disused shed in allotments off Lyncht Close, Brighton, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually. She is in a Lidl bag, wrapped in sheets, with cans, bottles and leaves. The post mortem finds the cause of death to be "unascertained". There is no evidence of a natural disease, congenital condition, nor injuries associated with assault. Death from hypothermia or co-sleeping is possible, but not provable or disprovable. Time of death was unascertained, but baby was estimated to be 2-6 weeks old.
Constance Marten tells court family set private detectives on her
Constance Marten has claimed that she was followed by private detectives in a row over her grandmother’s will.www.telegraph.co.uk
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Constance Marten breaks down in court as she denies killing baby
Aristocrat Marten, 36, and her partner Mark Gordon, 49, are on trial over the death of baby Victoria while living off-grid in a tent on the South Downs in wintry conditions last year.www.dailymail.co.uk
Covid fears meant more women wanted natural births, expert tells trial
Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are accused of causing the death of Victoria by taking her on the run in January last year to prevent her being taken away by social services.
Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial
Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continueswww.theargus.co.uk
Snipped from post above
5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near J4 Bolton. CM was driving as MG couldn't drive
From msm reports of eye witness testimony
Mr Hudson said he saw a woman get out of the passenger’s side of the car and run past him on the hard shoulder, while the male driver "frantically" pulled items out of the burning vehicle.
'I could have saved baby of runaway aristocrat Constance Marten' - motorist
Ken Hudson said he is "cut up" by the thought he could have saved Constance Marten's baby's life
www.standard.co.uk
Baby baby Jane
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ey were so far from being safe parents, but
i don’t believe much of her version of events about anything. She sounds posh and educated which means sounds more believable - but nothing she is saying I would trust at all. Whatever fits her narrative and current goal of staying out of prison, is what she is going to say.I've no idea what she's talking about, but I wouldn't be surprised if 20 or so people know and "simply everybody, darling" thinks they know.
She is being allowed to get away with so much non-specific language it's almost unreal. It's not clear for example whether she believes a crime such as fraud or forgery was committed.
Interestingly she named two private investigator firms but AFAIAA no newspaper has repeated their names, although none seem to have had a problem naming Lidl, Sainsbury, Metro, or Texaco.
Kroll? Control Risks?
The trust fund payments were sent by Hoares, one of the oldest privately-owned banks in the world.
Constance Marten received £48,000 from family trust fund before going on the run with baby, court hears
Jurors were told her monthly payment was increased to £3,400 and she also received large one-off sums - including more than £13,000 for camera equipment and a laptop.news.sky.com
It is just possible she's sending a message.
Alyce
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Much of msm seem to have lumped all the payments together but I found this report
On the second day of their trial at the Old Bailey, the jury heard that on 22 December 2022, Ms Marten received a payment into her Metrobank account of £15,590 from a family trust fund.
On January 3 2023, another payment was received from a different trust, this time for £3,400.
Constance Marten was receiving thousands in trust fund payments while on the run, court hears
Maltesepuppy
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Totally agree. I even think that her name was chosen because they thought they would be able to get away from the authorities and Victoria would have been their little "victory".
The way she handled the poor baby in the restaurant and the callous way she dropped rubbish in the same bag Victoria's body was, says a lot to me.
(snipped for focus)
This is a classic "when did you stop beating your wife" question and if it comes from anyone will be most likely to come from the prosecution imo. What can she say that won't make her look worse? If she has almost no experience and was useless at it, it creates an impression of someone hopelessly ill equipped to look after babies and children but who went ahead and did it anyway, and if she has heaps of experience and glowing references, it begs the question of why she was so tragically inept at looking after her own.
jmoo
iamshadow21
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It's called a loaded question.
Loaded question - Wikipedia
The beating your wife variant is much much older than I realised! Diogenes wrote about it!
MOO
Lady Gwendoline
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I thought there was a question about the cars where she indicated they had been through 14 cars and did she imply strange things had happened to all of them?! Not sure what the suggestion was here but the seed was planted that there were problems w all the cars.. anyone seen anymore it’ll that! Is nyine inferring something here ???More info on gross negligence manslaughter here (This has most likely been linked previously so apologies if it has). So for the charge to apply it needs to meet the following criteria if I’m understanding correctly:
There are, therefore, five elements which the prosecution must prove in order for a person to be guilty of an offence of manslaughter by gross negligence:
a) the defendant owed an existing duty of care to the victim;
b) the defendant negligently breached that duty of care;
c) it was reasonably foreseeable that the breach of that duty gave rise to a serious and obvious risk of death;
d) the breach of that duty caused the death of the victim;
e) the circumstances of the breach were truly exceptionally bad and so reprehensible as to justify the conclusion that it amounted to gross negligence and required criminal sanction.
I would hazard a guess that the judge’s directions for the jurors will look similar to the above, so that they can decide if each of the criteria has been proven. Looking forward to hearing from the defence next week. I hope the reporting is good.
yes watching from the gallery court number 5.
Lady Gwendoline
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She was asked about why the bag had earth and leaves in and why later on bus footage wrappers and other items and she said paraphrasing : the earth and leaves to help bury her initially. The rubbish : because the bag was starting to smell and they needed to make it appear as an ordinary shopping bag, she said at this time she and MG looked like homeless people.
Alyce
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In the podcast CM says they had a total of 15 cars and theyve all done the same thing
I
IMO, there's nothing very complicated or theoretical for a mother in looking after her 2-week old baby. Women living in indigenous tribes do it without any fancy gear or knowledge.
She needed to breastfeed every couple of hours, change her diapers, small stuff. The baby should have slept on her back, but it seems CM, while warned, didn't believe that was really necessary, and I don't think she's the only one.
I think it's a legal conundrum - if CM had stayed in a bedroom somewhere, with a drawer for the baby to sleep in, but had fallen asleep cradling the baby and woken up to her having died, would she still be criminally responsible?
If it was a different woman, without a trust fund and disputes with her relatives and SS, who had fallen asleep cradling her baby after her electricity had been cut off because hubby didn't pay the bill, and the baby had died, would that woman be criminally responsible for causing the baby's death, and gross negligent manslaughter?
I really can't say either way.
ETA: a news report about the number of co-sleeping deaths of babies in Scotland last year: 74.
www.bbc.com
JMO
I haven't been following the trial closely, but my understanding is she had previously cared for children who all survived.
IMO, there's nothing very complicated or theoretical for a mother in looking after her 2-week old baby. Women living in indigenous tribes do it without any fancy gear or knowledge.
She needed to breastfeed every couple of hours, change her diapers, small stuff. The baby should have slept on her back, but it seems CM, while warned, didn't believe that was really necessary, and I don't think she's the only one.
I think it's a legal conundrum - if CM had stayed in a bedroom somewhere, with a drawer for the baby to sleep in, but had fallen asleep cradling the baby and woken up to her having died, would she still be criminally responsible?
If it was a different woman, without a trust fund and disputes with her relatives and SS, who had fallen asleep cradling her baby after her electricity had been cut off because hubby didn't pay the bill, and the baby had died, would that woman be criminally responsible for causing the baby's death, and gross negligent manslaughter?
I really can't say either way.
ETA: a news report about the number of co-sleeping deaths of babies in Scotland last year: 74.
Safety plea over co-sleeping baby deaths figures
A quarter of infant deaths in Scotland last year involved parents bedsharing with babies, the BBC learns.
www.bbc.com
JMO
Last edited:
Apologies if my post has muddied the waters - I was talking about her experience of nannying, which is what I thought the poster I was quoting was referring to.I
I haven't been following the trial closely, but my understanding is she had previously cared for children who all survived.
IMO, there's nothing very complicated or theoretical for a mother in looking after her 2-week old baby. Women living in indigenous tribes do it without any fancy gear or knowledge.
She needed to breastfeed every couple of hours, change her diapers, small stuff. The baby should have slept on her back, but it seems CM, while warned, didn't believe that was really necessary, and I don't think she's the only one.
I think it's a legal conundrum - if CM had stayed in a bedroom somewhere, with a drawer for the baby to sleep in, but had fallen asleep cradling the baby and woken up to her having died, would she still be criminally responsible?
If it was a different woman, without a trust fund and disputes with her relatives and SS, who had fallen asleep cradling her baby after her electricity had been cut off because hubby didn't pay the bill, and the baby had died, would that woman be criminally responsible for causing the baby's death, and gross negligent manslaughter?
I really can't say either way.
ETA: a news report about the number of co-sleeping deaths of babies in Scotland last year: 74.
Safety plea over co-sleeping baby deaths figures
A quarter of infant deaths in Scotland last year involved parents bedsharing with babies, the BBC learns.
JMO
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After I posted about the babywearing, I looked back to see if there were any images of the oversized scarf she was wearing to start. I think she used it to make a baby sling.From car fire onwards:
"She carried the infant under her jacket in a blanket which she made into a sling, she added."
Flower and Dean Walk:
"She said they had ditched a buggy along with a distinctive red blanket because it gave away that they had a baby while they trying to stay under the radar."
Constance Marten fears she’ll never get other children back – latest
Marten and partner Mark Gordon deny gross negligence manslaughter of their daughter Victoriawww.independent.co.uk
I'm interested in how the baby was carried when they left F&DW if not in the bag. Was she carried in a sling made from something other than the red blanket? Certainly CM is swinging both her arms as they walk away after ditching the buggy.
If the prosecution want to say Victoria was in the bag while alive, either on the walk away from F&DW or at any other time, they will have to "put it to" CM that she's lying.
I have collected all the released photos of them that have the red/pink scarf
At the next photo, the scarf is now wrapped around Victoria in the stroller.
I am not sure if she has the scarf in this last one, as the video rendition of the colours is very muted compared to her coat colour.
But she seems to be holding her.
Just my own observations and opinions
Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc
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She hadn't made it a sling at that point I guess...This was their version :
View attachment 488689
Constance Marten’s baby could have died from the cold or co-sleeping, court told
The defendants, of no fixed address, deny manslaughter by gross negligence and other charges
Lady Gwendoline
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Yes she said 15 cars not 14 - I apologise. And absolutely implied something sus about the cars all having the same problem.
Lady Gwendoline
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In court she referred to it as a red blanket. She said she changed in the Doner Kebab loos and ditched the burgundy coat as she was worried about people recognising her as she thought someone had been filming her in the Doner Kebab restaurant ..
Lady Gwendoline
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In courts i got the sense that if they could have stayed in a cottage or hotel or air b n b it wld have been preferable but they couldn’t get additional nights due to :needing ID to book w booking.com which she mentioned as using. She said she left her handbag in the car after the fire which had her wallet in and she also mentioned a fairly large quantity of money being in the car at the time of the fire and being left there. So she had no handbag, the baby items she had stockpiled now up in flames from the car fire .. nowwhere safe to go .. just given birth.. desperate to hold on to their baby … being the subject of a massive person hunt propelled into the public eye..can’t even imagine the mental toll this would take. Other observations from the gallery: nervous demeanour .. self conscious apologising a lot for being nervous and not remembering everything .. poised.. composed … far from arrogant I think she came across humble but clearly affected by her life experiences w her family and choices she felt she had no other choice to make .. her make up was natural - she looked pretty she has a very sort of natural beauty about her . She clutched a bunch of what looked like personal papers close to her which the judge asked her toI
I haven't been following the trial closely, but my understanding is she had previously cared for children who all survived.
IMO, there's nothing very complicated or theoretical for a mother in looking after her 2-week old baby. Women living in indigenous tribes do it without any fancy gear or knowledge.
She needed to breastfeed every couple of hours, change her diapers, small stuff. The baby should have slept on her back, but it seems CM, while warned, didn't believe that was really necessary, and I don't think she's the only one.
I think it's a legal conundrum - if CM had stayed in a bedroom somewhere, with a drawer for the baby to sleep in, but had fallen asleep cradling the baby and woken up to her having died, would she still be criminally responsible?
If it was a different woman, without a trust fund and disputes with her relatives and SS, who had fallen asleep cradling her baby after her electricity had been cut off because hubby didn't pay the bill, and the baby had died, would that woman be criminally responsible for causing the baby's death, and gross negligent manslaughter?
I really can't say either way.
ETA: a news report about the number of co-sleeping deaths of babies in Scotland last year: 74.
Safety plea over co-sleeping baby deaths figures
A quarter of infant deaths in Scotland last year involved parents bedsharing with babies, the BBC learns.
JMO
Put to the side . This included a note from MG he passed her before she started evidence. JMO and am not conding their action or what happened but she had an almost ethereal quality. She didn’t come across in court like an arrogant monster. Quite the opposite. Just my opinion.
Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc
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Not sure if it has been answered but I tried to do some digging on this question some weeks back. IIRC it is her father's side but the mother had her own family's wealth ?
No links so JMO
Lady Gwendoline
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She said they tried to resuscitate baby Victoria but she wasn’t breathing and had clearly passed away. Thus she said there was no point calling emergency services. It was too late. She said if anything had not been right w her or the baby before Victoria passed away she would have sought help but she said baby Victoria was feeding well and she had no cause for concern. And she indicated the plan was only to spend a night or 2 in the tent and find somewhere to rent .. like a cottage from the farmer on whose land they were camping. The ultimate plan was to get to a port and somehow leave the country w baby Victoria and be together. Pls be clear I am not condoning or supporting anything that happpened just sharing what I saw and heard today. Perhaps the prosecution will bring out another side to her. Will try to get there again.
LouTennant
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Really disturbing statement from CM. I would most definitely call 999 even if I woke up to my baby being really blue. That small hope that there was still life would be priority No1.
Instead CM states the baby was clearly dead. Makes me think she knows more than she is saying.
jmo
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