UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

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BackseatDriver said:
Revealing of what, do you think?
Click to expand...

Not sure how to articulate it.

[And I should preface this by saying I have never accidentally fallen asleep on a baby. And, that had they reacted to their "panic" by dialling 999, I might interpret it differently.]

However, I *think* I am responding to the idea that it was "panic" that led CM to the decision to place Victoria's body in the bag and hide her from the authorities.

IMO that kind of decision making in the face of "panic" potentially indicates a guilty conscience. Perhaps the feeling related to a fear over "what is going to happen to me now?" rather than, "what can I do to help/save my baby?".

I think it's a curious word, given that they didn't seek help or dial 999, both of which are things one might reasonably expect a parent to do in the moments after discovering their child not breathing.

JMO.
 
From the Independent Live Stream

14:38

‘We were in a tent because we cared for her so much,’ mother says​

Pushed again on why they as a couple had made the decision to live in a tent after arriving in East Ham, Marten responded: “We were in a tent because we cared for her so much, we weren’t in a tent because me and Mark had a penchant for tents.”
“She’s the reason we’re doing what we’re doing,” she added.
The court heard that at the time, Marten had £17k in her Metro account and a “couple of thousand” in her Halifax bank account.
Questioned why they had purchased a tent from Argos, she said: “It was the easiest place, it’s not easy to get a tent in the middle of January.”
 
From the Independent Live Stream

14:45

Marten denies accusation baby Victoria was placed in a bag​

Responding to the suggestion that her baby daughter had been placed in a red Lidl carrier bag while jurors were watching CCTV clips, Marten responded: “I have not put my alive baby in a bag.
“If i’d done that she would have been screaming, people would have noticed.
“I’m not going to put her alive in a Lidl bag, it is absurd.”
Baby Victoria’s body was found in a Lidl bag in an allotment shed several weeks later after the couple were arrested near Brighton.
 
Cardgame said:
Not sure how to articulate it.

[And I should preface this by saying I have never accidentally fallen asleep on a baby. And, that had they reacted to their "panic" by dialling 999, I might interpret it differently.]

However, I *think* I am responding to the idea that it was "panic" that led CM to the decision to place Victoria's body in the bag and hide her from the authorities.

IMO that kind of decision making in the face of "panic" potentially indicates a guilty conscience. Perhaps the feeling related to a fear over "what is going to happen to me now?" rather than, "what can I do to help/save my baby?".

I think it's a curious word, given that they didn't seek help or dial 999, both of which are things one might reasonably expect a parent to do in the moments after discovering their child not breathing.

JMO.
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and this wording..... ( from Smccat's post above )

I have not put my alive baby in a bag.
“If i’d done that she would have been screaming, people would have noticed.


Her thought process seems to be based solely on what the consequences would be for CM - attracting attention of others
No indignation or anger that anyone could think she would treat her baby in that way
 
Alyce said:
and this wording..... ( from Smccat's post above )

I have not put my alive baby in a bag.
“If i’d done that she would have been screaming, people would have noticed.


Her thought process seems to be based solely on what the consequences would be for CM - attracting attention of others
No indignation or anger that anyone could think she would treat her baby in that way
Click to expand...
I think she meant "There's no reason I'd do that, or that even a person who wanted to do it would do it". She also said there was no reason she'd be lying about the birthdate. This was on the Daily Mail podcast.

There should be forensic analysis of the video showing them after they got rid of the buggy, with a view to assessing whether or not Victoria was under one of their jackets or in a bag at that time. (There's nowhere else she could have been.) The question of whether she put the live baby in the bag can't be reliably answered by putting it to her and seeing how she responds in the witness box.
 
Alyce said:
and this wording..... ( from Smccat's post above )

I have not put my alive baby in a bag.
“If i’d done that she would have been screaming, people would have noticed.


Her thought process seems to be based solely on what the consequences would be for CM - attracting attention of others
No indignation or anger that anyone could think she would treat her baby in that way
Click to expand...
Not dissimilar from her comment that if they had buried Victoria in a shallow grave an animal may have eaten the body and destroyed the evidence (or words to that effect) rather than the simple abhorrent feeling of an animal eaten her child's body.
And when she thought about the media frenzy when she realised that Victoria had passed away
 
From the Independent Live Stream

15:24

‘I’m not into conspiracy theories,’ Marten says​

Speaking of her plans to move to Europe with her family, Marten said she was aware of an “underground network” helping parents move away from social services.
When questioned by the prosecutor if she bought into conspiracy theories, she responded: “I’ve had a great education, I’m not into conspiracy theories.”
 
Just catching up on today so far. Either her KC hasn't been able to persuade her to stop with the ridiculous answers or he hasn't tried!

So we've had living like Bedouin and Jesus today! Jesus... comparing their situation to 2000 years ago etc. I think she quite likes to think of them as persecuted and having to go through Biblical situations... perhaps even down to her child being born on 24th December and there being 'no room at the (Premier) inn'! There will be a star over Harwich next!

And when arguing semantics about dumped vs placed:
When countered that a sandwich wrapper and a beer can had also been found in the bag, she responded: “The can was quite a while afterwards.” Like that makes a difference! Looking at the video again of the bag when found by police - it was filthy, full of filthy rags, cans, leaves, wrappers... just abhorrent but she really can't seem to see it. I really do hope she is judged to be mentally unwell after this trial because if she is sane then she is an incredible piece of work!
 
From the Independent Live Stream

15:54

Tearful Marten admits feeling ‘responsible’ for baby’s death​

Further questioned about the appropriate use of a tent for a newborn, Marten became emotional when she recalled the “awful” memory of her daughter’s death.
I” do feel responsible for her death absolutely, but I don’t think that happened because of the tent, I think that would have happened in a hotel if I’d have fallen asleep,” she said.
“I don’t think being in the tent was the wrong thing to do, I think me being exhausted and sitting up at that time was very unfortunate yes.”
When questioned “Are you responsible for her death?”, she tearfully responded: “To a degree of course, I feel responsible as her mum for her death but at the same time I have to love and forgive myself because it was a really awful set of circumstances but I didn’t mean to fall asleep.”
 
Smccat said:
From the Independent Live Stream

15:54

Tearful Marten admits feeling ‘responsible’ for baby’s death​

Further questioned about the appropriate use of a tent for a newborn, Marten became emotional when she recalled the “awful” memory of her daughter’s death.
I” do feel responsible for her death absolutely, but I don’t think that happened because of the tent, I think that would have happened in a hotel if I’d have fallen asleep,” she said.
“I don’t think being in the tent was the wrong thing to do, I think me being exhausted and sitting up at that time was very unfortunate yes.”
When questioned “Are you responsible for her death?”, she tearfully responded: “To a degree of course, I feel responsible as her mum for her death but at the same time I have to love and forgive myself because it was a really awful set of circumstances but I didn’t mean to fall asleep.”
Click to expand...

What is she doing?! Oh my goodness.
 
DianaWW said:
Constance Marten is asked why her 'Daddy Bear' Mark Gordon walked about with plastic bags on his feet. ’Mark’s just Mark, I don’t know. Mark is Mark, he always does things like that.'

https://twitter.com/x/status/1767904970089591272
Click to expand...
That's a bit, well, weird. The next questions should have been "Did you ever ask him?" and "What other things like that does he do?"
 
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