UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[JuicyLucy]

Det Supt Lewis Basford is head of Public Protection - East BCU in the Met. One of their areas of speciality is child protection/neglect/abuse and missing persons. Not sure why they've taken over from Sussex though.

EDIT: Based on his Twitter he shared an appeal before they were found so they might have already been involved. Perhaps they got involved when they were spotted in East Ham?

It's been a Met investigation since they arrived in East Ham. It has never been a Sussex Police investigation - Sussex were just providing resources and support once the search had moved to their patch. The only change since 12 January is that today DSu Basford said it has been handed to Specialist Crime Command.

"Essex Police carried out a number of enquiries and reviewed hours of CCTV and were able to place the couple near East Ham Station between 10:30hrs and 12:30hrs on Saturday, 7 January. As this was the last confirmed sighting of the family at the time, the investigation was handed over to the Metropolitan Police Service on Thursday, 12 January."

Renewed appeal for information on missing couple and newborn baby

"Detectives from the Met’s Specialist Crime Command are now leading enquiries to locate the baby because of the resources, technology and expertise available to them in very complex investigations."

Pair arrested on suspicion of gross negligence mansaughter remain in custody

Also:

Renewed appeal to trace missing couple and baby last seen in Sussex

Update in search for Constance Marten and Mark Gordon

 

[Tyzer]

On her Facebook account Constance references to being in Brighton so she knows the area.

 

[infinit]

Wasn't it Brighton that she went to drama school and then hooked up with Mark and then dropped drama school and cut everyone off... I'm not saying by any means this is the case I think they will have some 'links' in the area and they will know it well. I think that they may have found someone who would take on them and maybe the baby is safe... This is just more to get them to talk or to get whoever is out there to panic and come forward... The only thing is the longer it is I can't help but lose faith, and think this theory isn't the case. I initially thought they meant hadn't seen the baby on camera since 8th Feb when they said they hadn't seen the baby since the 8th, but they meant 8th January. The presser at 2.40pm didn't tell us much other than theyd been allowed to hold them longer.

East 15 is in Loughton, Essex. She is on the list of their 2016 graduates: 2016 graduates of East 15 Acting School | University of Essex

 

[infinit]

It's been a Met investigation since they arrived in East Ham. It has never been a Sussex Police investigation - Sussex were just providing resources and support once the search had moved to their patch. The only change since 12 January is that today DSu Basford said it has been handed to Specialist Crime Command.

"Essex Police carried out a number of enquiries and reviewed hours of CCTV and were able to place the couple near East Ham Station between 10:30hrs and 12:30hrs on Saturday, 7 January. As this was the last confirmed sighting of the family at the time, the investigation was handed over to the Metropolitan Police Service on Thursday, 12 January."

Renewed appeal for information on missing couple and newborn baby

"Detectives from the Met’s Specialist Crime Command are now leading enquiries to locate the baby because of the resources, technology and expertise available to them in very complex investigations."

Pair arrested on suspicion of gross negligence mansaughter remain in custody

Also:

Renewed appeal to trace missing couple and baby last seen in Sussex

Update in search for Constance Marten and Mark Gordon

Ah makes sense, thank you!

 

[Elleoshin]

Someone posted about the pair possibly denying the existence of a new baby to police. I’m wondering if their phones might provide evidence of the child’s existence with photos which would be date stamped.

They might have a hard time explaining why there was a placenta found in their car then... When the police found it on fire. They've sent it off to see if they can get any DNA profile from it but they could surely match it to Constance

 

[Obergine]

Not sure if I'm imagining it but you can almost see folds that look very similar to the CCTV.

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon: Timeline of couple’s disappearance

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were missing for seven weeks

www.independent.co.uk

Yes, that's what I thought. I downloaded it and zoomed in but it's a very low res image.

 

[Kingsley]

Police say 'remains' found in search for baby of Constance Marten - latest

Marten was Gordon have been arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter as the desperate hunt continues

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

It's believed by the Police the baby was alive when they arrived in Newhaven but they've not stated what leads them to believe that.

Thanks. This helps me tremendously.
Presumably, the taxi with the crying baby must've been on January 8 if the police believe that, which puts the camping due to death of baby hypothesis to bed.

 

[Davieson]

Supposing that the child is in safe keeping, what will the position be if they refuse to say where it is ?

 

[Alyce]

• Jan. 7: The pair is spotted in London with their faces covered leaving a taxi with an orange carrier bag and a stroller. Using cash, they paid for various items, including a tent, sleeping bags and pillows. The couple then dumped a buggy and other items later that day before continuing to travel.

The stroller was dumped on January 7 after a taxi ride and after they bought camping type equipment. Is it possible that they choice to stay outdoors is a result of the demise of the poor baby within the first few days of life -- that they have been on the run because of manslaughter rather than being on the run to keep their baby with them?

When was the last taxi ride with a moving, crying baby? Was Jan 7 the last one?
Sorry if the taxi dates were already established. The timeline from the cited article doesn't show anything else in January.

Heiress Constance Marten, partner arrested: Missing newborn's parents won't share baby's location

Heiress Constance Marten and Mark Gordons were arrested in England Monday night intensifying the search for their missing newborn baby.

www.usatoday.com

They got a taxi to Haringey early in the morning on January 8.


Constance, Mark and their baby were dropped off in another taxi in Newhaven in East Sussex at 4.56am just outside the entrance to the port.

Det Supt Basford added: ....."We know that the baby was still alive on January 8

'Let us know you are okay': Police renew appeal to find missing couple and baby

Concern for missing aristocrat Constance Marten, her boyfriend Mark Gordon and their newborn baby continues to grow.

www.hamhigh.co.uk

 

[Davieson]

They got a taxi to Haringey early in the morning on January 8.


Constance, Mark and their baby were dropped off in another taxi in Newhaven in East Sussex at 4.56am just outside the entrance to the port.

Det Supt Basford added: ....."We know that the baby was still alive on January 8

'Let us know you are okay': Police renew appeal to find missing couple and baby

Concern for missing aristocrat Constance Marten, her boyfriend Mark Gordon and their newborn baby continues to grow.

www.hamhigh.co.uk

Police seem very definite about this. Normally they hedge their bets with phrases like 'we believe' or 'we think'.
Here they are saying 'we know'.

 

[Doughy]

I wonder to what extent the two's knowledge of the police search is. Did they buy newspapers? Were they able to access the Internet on their burner phones? Do they know the taxi drivers reported the baby crying?

 

[Maltesepuppy]

I just had a really dark thought that if CM wasn't producing enough milk or the baby was born with a tongue tie he or she could have passed due to starvation.
Edited to add MOO in case it wasn't clear

 

[iamshadow21]

They might have a hard time explaining why there was a placenta found in their car then... When the police found it on fire. They've sent it off to see if they can get any DNA profile from it but they could surely match it to Constance

They can get DNA from cremains these days. A placenta that is possibly fire damaged but still obviously recognisably a placenta should be easy, both mother and child profiles.

MOO

 

[JuicyLucy]

I think the difference between what is known and what can be proven will end up being very significant.

It's one thing to 'know' or 'be sure' that CM had a baby and the baby was born alive, and was still alive on 8 January, but if they are hoping to prove manslaughter or even causing/allowing the death of a child then the onus will be on the police to provide evidence for all of the things they are saying happened.

That will mean a forensically unambiguous tissue sample from the burnt-out car proving that there was the distinct DNA of a baby and that that baby was CM's (at least) and/or some kind of compelled medical evidence taken bodily from CM herself, which might run into admissibility issues imo if not handled extremely carefully. AND it will mean providing some kind of evidence that there was a live birth, not a stillbirth. Since we know that CM & MG deliberately avoided cabs with CCTV, that could well be difficult to prove.

Atm, as far as we know, there isn't even anyone who can attest to the fact that CM was pregnant.

IANAL, but it would not surprise me to find that if CM claims the whole 8-week episode has been some kind of elaborate performance art, there may be little LE can do to prove otherwise unless they can find the baby or compelling forensic evidence relating to it.

Watching with interest.

JMO obviously.

 

[dotr]

Just a thought, sometimes deceased babies are placed into bodies of water, perhaps as a subconscious desire to return the child to the ''womb''.
Is there someplace like that very near the allotments?
speculation, imo.

 

[wizardizzo76]

I just had a really dark thought that if CM wasn't producing enough milk or the baby was born with a tongue tie he or she could have passed due to starvation.
Edited to add MOO in case it wasn't clear

My friend's child died at a few days old having breastfed well, and had no obvious physical problems at all. Young lives are very fragile. Sometimes incredibly resilient like babies pulled from the wreckage of earthquakes. Sometimes they fade with no warning or reason.

 

[Lucy6226]

My friend's child died at a few days old having breastfed well, and had no obvious physical problems at all. Young lives are very fragile. Sometimes incredibly resilient like babies pulled from the wreckage of earthquakes. Sometimes they fade with no warning or reason.

Yes sudden infant death could be a reason. But just like the birth, all deaths need to be recorded and they have failed to do that at the very least MOO

 

[wizardizzo76]

Just a thought, sometimes deceased babies are placed into bodies of water, perhaps as a subconscious desire to return the child to the ''womb''.
Is there someplace like that very near the allotments?
speculation, imo.

The English channel? After all, they have likely spent some time travelling from Newhaven to Brighton.

 

[supernothing]

I think the likely scenario is they planned to camp in the South downs just as police suspected after they saw the tent purchase.

They likely discarded the pushchair because anyone who has tried to push a pushchair like the one they had bought know it's almost impossible to over grass let alone rough terrain...too bumpy.

Likely planned to go back to babywearing and keep walking.

If CM was breastfeeding, I struggle to see how baby could've had time to feed enough. I breastfed my children and it's full on, they cluster feed and feed for comfort and feed to grow ..

Unfortunately I feel it may be that baby did die. I don't know. I hope I'm wrong. I feel it's unlikely baby has been in their sole care for a while eg the info re visiting a food bank with no baby present.

The possible camp site areas with discarded sleeping bags etc also makes me think perhaps they have been sleeping elsewhere recently. Perhaps if baby did sadly die they moved on. I think the answer is likely near the encampment.


A very sad outcome if so.

 

[JennieM]

Abandoned blue sleeping bag, tents and several wooden shelters are found in woodland close to where police are hunting for aristocrat's missing baby​

An abandoned sleeping bag, tents and several rough camps and shelters have been discovered in woodland close to the area of Brighton police are scouring for signs of arrested couple Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's missing baby.

The discovery was made in a belt of woodland bordering the south east corner of Wild Park - an area it is understood the police search has not yet reached.

The woodland, located within the 240-hectare nature reserve, lies on the direct off-road foot route between Newhaven and Fiveways, the area of Brighton where the couple were arrested on Monday evening.

Police have been informed of the discovery.

Sleeping bag and tents found near search for aristocrat's missing baby

The discovery was made in a belt of woodland bordering the south east corner of Wild Park - an area it is understood the police search has not yet reached.

www.dailymail.co.uk