UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[armchairdetective123]

It's a shame that with all the financial resources she had, it would have been actually quite easy to evade social services and keep her baby safe at the same time. She could have given birth abroad and rented a place there for herself and the baby.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I know it's infeasible for them to be charged with murder but they're no better in my eyes.

It's not impossible.

Despite the weeks we've been following this case and all the many things that have come out about both of them, I still feel no clearer in my own mind about whether these two are mad, sad or just plain bad.

I don't think I would be surprised about almost anything that the post mortem might reveal. At least now there can be one.

JMO

 

[infinit]

But even a baby with a condition deserves to be warm and in a loving environment. Even if it inevitably will die shortly after birth. For the short time it is on earth, it deserves the best care possible. Not sleeping in the woods.

And I expect it's pretty much impossible to say if it's afflicted with such a condition unless you're a paediatric doctor with access to imaging, labs or whatever else. Not 2 bums in a tent.

 

[QB2022]

It's a shame that with all the financial resources she had, it would have been actually quite easy to evade social services and keep her baby safe at the same time. She could have given birth abroad and rented a place there for herself and the baby.

It's also very unusual for wealthy people to end up with social services. Many of the issues that get you caught up with them can be resolved with money. Ie, your house is filthy? You can pay for cleaners. You can't care properly? Pay for nannies etc. The fact that they couldn't throw their resources at whatever the concerns were is quite telling

 

[infinit]

It's not impossible.

Despite the weeks we've been following this case and all the many things that have come out about both of them, I still feel no clearer in my own mind about whether these two are mad, sad or just plain bad.

I don't think I would be surprised about almost anything that the post mortem might reveal. At least now there can be one.

JMO

True, I was assuming it will have died due to neglect but who really knows, they don't seem to care in the slightest so you're probably right to not take anything off the table.

JMO

 

[Elleoshin]

I'm going to say this and yes I will risk a ban.... when you take a lover your loyalty is to him... but when you bear children your loyalty turns and remains to them and them only above ALL others. They are of you and from you. A Bear will kill without conscience to save her cubs... and that is why she is a good Mother, her cubs are all and forever.

I say to my other half on the daily I'd die for my child but for you.... Not so much your a big man you can sort yourself out.
Also tell him you do me wrong I'll deal with it. You do my child wrong I show you the door without a second chance or breath in my body. Because in my house my babies come first doesn't matter if theyre 6mths,6 years or 60yrs, they will always be my babies and always be my priority. I don't understand parents who don't see the world like me.

 

[dotr]

The lose some, gruesome, twosome! imo.

Remains found in woodland following search for Constance Marten’s baby

The discovery followed a widespread two-day search operation by hundreds of officers across Sussex.

www.northwalespioneer.co.uk

''Hundreds of officers from the Metropolitan Police and Sussex Police, as well as search and rescue volunteers, scoured 90 square miles of land near Brighton over the course of two days in search of the infant.

On Wednesday evening, Detective Superintendent Lewis Basford told reporters a baby’s remains had been found close to where Marten and her partner Mark Gordon were arrested on suspicion of child neglect on Monday.

The pair had been avoiding police for several weeks and were detained by officers on Stanmer Villas in the city, but the child was not with them – sparking a widespread search in the Sussex undergrowth.''

 

[DetectiveLawless]

<modsnip: WS does not condone violence>

Disbelief on all the people who have blamed social services and the police.

 

[Furore]

MG rape charges were serious - knives and secateurs to kidnap a woman in own house whilst kids sleeping,a second break in where he bashed the guy who was also at home with a shovel. Aged just 14. Something seriously wrong with his psyche to have been capable of that and especially so young, the baby was never ever anything but vulnerable in that guy’s care - and even if CM was a genuinely loving mother, there seems to be a history of coercion and manipulation with respect to the Nigerian cult she was a member of in the past, then estrangement from family etc wtc

<modsnip - OFF LIMITS> The inevitable has happened and a baby is dead. How low do we want the chances of getting it wrong with SS to be, to allow a child to die? 1 in 100? 1 in 10,000?

 

[Davieson]

It's a shame that with all the financial resources she had, it would have been actually quite easy to evade social services and keep her baby safe at the same time. She could have given birth abroad and rented a place there for herself and the baby.

Well yes, but perhaps he couldn't go abroad as easily as she could, although when you have money, a false identity is fairly easy

 

[Lolabear]

When my stepson was a child my partner and I got custody of him through the courts as his mother decided a registered sex offender was more important to her than her own child. SS and le took him due to abuse and he same to us in a filthy, unloved awful state. His dad, my partner, had no idea where he was prior to this as they did a runner when everyone found out her new boyfriend was a rapist. The judge said to her in court if she gave up this man then she could have her son back but she flat out refused. She has since gone on to marry this man and have 2 further children with him, both of whom are on child protection for neglect and abuse. She has stated that if it came to losing these children or keep him then she will keep him. It never ceases to amaze me how any woman can put her child second to a man let alone a man who is a convicted sex offender.

 

[DetectiBamby]

And people were actively urging them to run and stay hidden...this is exactly why they were a high risk. I'm so bloody angry

Me too. People seem to get dumber by the day. She could have dumped him, worked with SS to keep the baby but it wasn't worth fighting for, instead prioritising that piece of work of a boyfriend.

 

[lore1]

I say to my other half on the daily I'd die for my child but for you.... Not so much your a big man you can sort yourself out.
Also tell him you do me wrong I'll deal with it. You do my child wrong I show you the door without a second chance or breath in my body. Because in my house my babies come first doesn't matter if theyre 6mths,6 years or 60yrs, they will always be my babies and always be my priority. I don't understand parents who don't see the world like me.

i agree, wish you`d been my mother

 

[Amaz0nia]

my heart breaks for this little bundle that wasn't even given a fair chance.

i am so upset that this is the outcome of it all, but from the beginning, the focus of these two was NOT the child's best interest, <modsnip - OFF LIMITS> obviously, i will say for the two parents, mental health was a serious issue, and though i can't know the details, i am sure that this plays a part in the choices that they made. we had information, though, that this man was once (does that go away?) severely disturbed from a very young age and the crimes he committed was extremely violent and sick. the fact that she stayed with this man, <modsnip> , losing a life of her own, in fact, shows where her priorities were, and they were not on the child as unfortunately we see with the heartbreaking news today.

however, this does not take away from the horrific abuse of this baby from the beginning. there was no prenatal care, no care afterbirth or for the welfare of this little one and in the end, not even the emotional tie to actually find help or even, and this pains me to even say, stay with this little gift after they were gone. this just shows how heartless these two were. there is no happy perhaps of what could have happened, because this baby was abused and neglected before birth.

from the very beginning of all this, i had a bad feeling about these two and their intentions. whatever spurned their paranoia, fear or whatever, the natural instinct to protect, care for and nuture their child was not there. if there were any people would may have helped them hide from SS or any authorities, i hope that they are also held responsible. this is what seems to be their 4th child. now gone, and they are arguing about going to london while this little body is alone in a field? no. there is no possible reason or excuse for this whole situation.

i hope those responders and LE have a good support to help them to deal with such a devastating find. it is incomprehensible to imagine what that must do to someone.

Exactly this…cpuldnt have said my feelings and thoughts any better

 

[QB2022]

When my stepson was a child my partner and I got custody of him through the courts as his mother decided a registered sex offender was more important to her than her own child. SS and le took him due to abuse and he same to us in a filthy, unloved awful state. His dad, my partner, had no idea where he was prior to this as they did a runner when everyone found out her new boyfriend was a rapist. The judge said to her in court if she gave up this man then she could have her son back but she flat out refused. She has since gone on to marry this man and have 2 further children with him, both of whom are on child protection for neglect and abuse. She has stated that if it came to losing these children or keep him then she will keep him. It never ceases to amaze me how any woman can put her child second to a man let alone a man who is a convicted sex offender.

I was in an extremely abusive relationship. I knew when my oldest was a few weeks we needed to leave but I needed to get myself set up first in terms of somewhere to go and finances. Number 2 was conceived very quickly and we left when No2 was 10 weeks old. I 100% how difficult it is, how hard it is to practically and emotionally break free. I remember the fear he would kill us and the awful moment when he cleared my account so I couldn't even afford formula. We had to do b&bs, criminal court, family court, civil court. He hasn't seen them since the day I left. As a mum you have a responsibility to put your children first. Even when you are a victim, there is still a responsibility to ensure the safety of individuals who literally can't make a choice or advocate for themselves.

The UK I think are far better at helping women leave than many countries. We were housed, I was handed money and formula. I had abuse workers and close support for my children. We never once needed SS involved as it was clear I was doing absolutely everything and co-operating with the police in full.


I know more than anyone how hard it is to leave, but I also know more than anyone how important it is to keep our vulnerable babies safe.

So many women just can't see the wood through the trees and are under a spell of abuse. My heart breaks for them, it genuinely does but equally they have a responsibility.

 

[Elleoshin]

When my stepson was a child my partner and I got custody of him through the courts as his mother decided a registered sex offender was more important to her than her own child. SS and le took him due to abuse and he same to us in a filthy, unloved awful state. His dad, my partner, had no idea where he was prior to this as they did a runner when everyone found out her new boyfriend was a rapist. The judge said to her in court if she gave up this man then she could have her son back but she flat out refused. She has since gone on to marry this man and have 2 further children with him, both of whom are on child protection for neglect and abuse. She has stated that if it came to losing these children or keep him then she will keep him. It never ceases to amaze me how any woman can put her child second to a man let alone a man who is a convicted sex offender.

Well that sounds just like this case here she chose her SO partner over her baby and potentially others looks like he did a good job of cutting her off from her family and friends to he completely isolated her. That's why SS knew of this baby and others and that's why they chose to run. ultimately it's ended in such tragedy. I wasn't on the same course don't know her personally nothing like that but I went to the same uni at the same time, very big campus. I just couldn't see anyone running in these kind of circles ending up wound up in such a wild way. I'm still trying to work out how someone like her found someone like him.

 

[lore1]

Well that sounds just like this case here she chose her SO partner over her baby and potentially others looks like he did a good job of cutting her off from her family and friends to he completely isolated her. That's why SS knew of this baby and others and that's why they chose to run. ultimately it's ended in such tragedy. I wasn't on the same course don't know her personally nothing like that but I went to the same uni at the same time, very big campus. I just couldn't see anyone running in these kind of circles ending up wound up in such a wild way. I'm still trying to work out how someone like her found someone like him.

they do seem an odd match i can't see how they would run in the same circles

 

[Olive01254]

So very sad to hear the baby has died. But I am glad they have been found and can be laid to rest with some dignity - and not discovered by some unsuspecting person hiking etc

The foodbank and cash point visits indicate they had ran out of money, but to go together seems unnecessary and risky too

Losing a baby must be overwhelming and yet the ring doorbell footage seemed like they were doing errands without any obvious distress- they must be totally disconnected from reality

 

[worth2]

Also wanted to add to the discussion after having repeatedly checked this thread and hoping that the baby was alive and well. I'm not a mother but I'm truly devastated about this child not being given the chance they deserved. So upsetting, how selfish can you be that you'd rather your baby die as a result of your actions than have police or social services involvement.

 

[MadMcGoo]

We’ll be moving to a new thread in a few minutes….