UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

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Still amazed they've not been found... makes me think unless have had help and no longer in UK, they're still - with the lack of further taxi reports or CCTV - not too far from Newhaven?

They were spotted on the house camera an hour after the petrol station camera - even though it's about a 10-15 min walk.
Are they purposely wandering around - in circles? - at night to keep warm?

Or do they have no phone (or just a non-smart burner and so no navigation) & don't even realise they're circling?

Just noticed looking at Newhaven maps, lots of holiday parks along the south coast. Most close over winter and I can't imagine a static caravan is that difficult to break into. Could have kept them off CCTV and sheltered the last few weeks. Though I guess many reopened last week for half term.

LE I'm sure have asked holiday parks to check for any damaged locks or forced windows as maintenance and cleaners are back on site prepping for their seasons...
 
The midwife's statement is both entirely truthful and incredibly likely to have the opposite effect to the one hoped for... of all the ways to reach out to someone mistrustful of services, that dreadful attempt is not it.
 
Nikynoo said:
I'm not sure what to make of this case. IMO coersive control is not an issue here. From the photos I have seen in the media they seem to be on an equal footing. For example, in the above pic, C seems to be taking the lead.

This case has me scratching my head. There must be a reason that they want sight of C and the baby - I wonder if there are family court proceedings in place, hence the vagueness around the concerns.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand what coercive control is. You cannot prove or disprove it from CCTV.

From Women's Aid:

Domestic abuse isn’t always physical. Coercive control is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

This controlling behaviour is designed to make a person dependent by isolating them from support, exploiting them, depriving them of independence and regulating their everyday behaviour.

Coercive control creates invisible chains and a sense of fear that pervades all elements of a victim’s life. It works to limit their human rights by depriving them of their liberty and reducing their ability for action. Experts like Evan Stark liken coercive control to being taken hostage. As he says: “the victim becomes captive in an unreal world created by the abuser, entrapped in a world of confusion, contradiction and fear.”

Some common examples of coercive behaviour are:
  • Isolating you from friends and family
  • Depriving you of basic needs, such as food
  • Monitoring your time
  • Monitoring you via online communication tools or spyware
  • Taking control over aspects of your everyday life, such as where you can go, who you can see, what you can wear and when you can sleep
  • Depriving you access to support services, such as medical services
  • Repeatedly putting you down, such as saying you’re worthless
  • Humiliating, degrading or dehumanising you
  • Controlling your finances
  • Making threats or intimidating you
Coercive control - Women’s Aid

We know she became estranged from her family around the time she met him; it seems plausible that he isolated her. We can only guess what has happened behind the scenes, but clearly her and the baby's basic needs aren't being met, they're together 24/7, and she hasn't accessed medical support either pre or postnatally.

Not being physically shackled to MG doesn't mean she is able to escape, either physically or psychologically. Walking a few steps ahead means nothing - even if she wasn't in too deep psychologically, how far do you think she would get running from a taller stronger faster man while recovering from an unassisted birth and carrying a newborn?

If you read back through the thread you'll see why there is good evidence that there have been family court proceedings, and the reason for their current flight is not wanting the latest baby to be removed. It looks very much like three prior children have been removed, and as soon as the most recent pregnancy started to show they moved frequently to avoid SS becoming aware of the pregnancy, with the first the authorities knew of the pregnancy being the placenta left in the burning car.

We do not, of course, know what has triggered previous SS involvement, but domestic abuse is a common reason for SS to become involved, and coercive control is one of several ways that domestic abuse can manifest.
 
rightsaidfred said:
I don't think you understand what coercive control is. You cannot prove or disprove it from CCTV.

From Women's Aid:

Domestic abuse isn’t always physical. Coercive control is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

This controlling behaviour is designed to make a person dependent by isolating them from support, exploiting them, depriving them of independence and regulating their everyday behaviour.

Coercive control creates invisible chains and a sense of fear that pervades all elements of a victim’s life. It works to limit their human rights by depriving them of their liberty and reducing their ability for action. Experts like Evan Stark liken coercive control to being taken hostage. As he says: “the victim becomes captive in an unreal world created by the abuser, entrapped in a world of confusion, contradiction and fear.”

Some common examples of coercive behaviour are:
  • Isolating you from friends and family
  • Depriving you of basic needs, such as food
  • Monitoring your time
  • Monitoring you via online communication tools or spyware
  • Taking control over aspects of your everyday life, such as where you can go, who you can see, what you can wear and when you can sleep
  • Depriving you access to support services, such as medical services
  • Repeatedly putting you down, such as saying you’re worthless
  • Humiliating, degrading or dehumanising you
  • Controlling your finances
  • Making threats or intimidating you
Coercive control - Women’s Aid

We know she became estranged from her family around the time she met him; it seems plausible that he isolated her. We can only guess what has happened behind the scenes, but clearly her and the baby's basic needs aren't being met, they're together 24/7, and she hasn't accessed medical support either pre or postnatally.

Not being physically shackled to MG doesn't mean she is able to escape, either physically or psychologically. Walking a few steps ahead means nothing - even if she wasn't in too deep psychologically, how far do you think she would get running from a taller stronger faster man while recovering from an unassisted birth and carrying a newborn?

If you read back through the thread you'll see why there is good evidence that there have been family court proceedings, and the reason for their current flight is not wanting the latest baby to be removed. It looks very much like three prior children have been removed, and as soon as the most recent pregnancy started to show they moved frequently to avoid SS becoming aware of the pregnancy, with the first the authorities knew of the pregnancy being the placenta left in the burning car.

We do not, of course, know what has triggered previous SS involvement, but domestic abuse is a common reason for SS to become involved, and coercive control is one of several ways that domestic abuse can manifest.
Click to expand...
I agree. Would not be surprised imo if baby hasn't survived if they are still sleeping rough.
 
rockthecasbah said:
I agree. Would not be surprised imo if baby hasn't survived if they are still sleeping rough.
Click to expand...

I desperately hope you are incorrect, as I'm sure you do too. Of course if the baby has died then they are going to be even less motivated to come forward; they'd inevitably be investigated for causing or allowing the death of a child, which carries a prison sentence of anywhere between one year and life.

We have a total lack of evidence as to what's happened after 8th January.

There's a huge range of options including
- they've managed to leave the country via an unofficial means - if this has happened, my guess would be via a small boat across the channel. I think they were always trying to travel to Liverpool, onto Belfast and then into Eire, but the car fire and possibly a premature birth scuppered plans.
- they're being sheltered by someone with an unsympathetic view of SS; there seem to be enough out there based on facebook comments I've seen underneath news articles
- they're camping somewhere, probably sheltered within an abandoned or derelict building to reduce the chances of being spotted
- due to the planning involved they may have false identity documents and have managed to secure a small property from a slumlord who is doing minimal checks.
- one or more of them has died and the bodies haven't been found - which could be anything from a small boat sinking with all three on board to murder-suicide, to the death of the baby from exposure.

I'm really surprised they haven't been found yet; I'm struggling to think of any other publicised cases of a group of people willingly going missing and remaining hidden for so long.

MOO.
 
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It's worrying if the police's last sighting was well over a month ago. Hopefully baby is in a sling and snuggled up close to CM in the released videos/images. It's such a long time ago. I can't see why any confirmed sightings wouldn't have been released though. I see they state they could be anywhere in the UK...I wonder if they have travelled to Scotland. I'm just thinking of how I would think in their shoes, Scotland's ferry ports are less likely to be on the police's radar. God knows the logistics they seem to favour taxis and I have no idea if they could afford that. Perhaps they have managed to buy a car, under the radar?

I really hope that cm and baby are safe but so much time has passed since early January in Newhaven it's hard to know what could've happened between then and now. I am really hoping for a happy ending...
 
supernothing said:
It's worrying if the police's last sighting was well over a month ago. Hopefully baby is in a sling and snuggled up close to CM in the released videos/images. It's such a long time ago. I can't see why any confirmed sightings wouldn't have been released though. I see they state they could be anywhere in the UK...I wonder if they have travelled to Scotland. I'm just thinking of how I would think in their shoes, Scotland's ferry ports are less likely to be on the police's radar. God knows the logistics they seem to favour taxis and I have no idea if they could afford that. Perhaps they have managed to buy a car, under the radar?

I really hope that cm and baby are safe but so much time has passed since early January in Newhaven it's hard to know what could've happened between then and now. I am really hoping for a happy ending...
Click to expand...

I guarantee they'll have put out a Port Alert Order - which covers both airports and ferries.

A car is quite possible - I once bought a vehicle on Instagram(!) and a friend sold her banger for cash on Facebook about 4 hours after she listed it to some blokes she described as being very dodgy - so dodgy I was concerned they hadn't updated the logbook and she'd have police knocking on her door after it was used in an offence of some description.

Buying a vehicle without anyone asking for your ID or other formalities is certainly possible.
 
CJS83 said:
Still amazed they've not been found... makes me think unless have had help and no longer in UK, they're still - with the lack of further taxi reports or CCTV - not too far from Newhaven?

They were spotted on the house camera an hour after the petrol station camera - even though it's about a 10-15 min walk.
Are they purposely wandering around - in circles? - at night to keep warm?

Or do they have no phone (or just a non-smart burner and so no navigation) & don't even realise they're circling?

Just noticed looking at Newhaven maps, lots of holiday parks along the south coast. Most close over winter and I can't imagine a static caravan is that difficult to break into. Could have kept them off CCTV and sheltered the last few weeks. Though I guess many reopened last week for half term.

LE I'm sure have asked holiday parks to check for any damaged locks or forced windows as maintenance and cleaners are back on site prepping for their seasons...
Click to expand...
That’s an interesting theory, I wonder how possible it is. There won’t be any guests off-season and the rooms won’t be getting serviced, but I imagine there will still be some kind of skeleton staff. I don’t think it’s hard to imagine they could hide from the odd security guard (although newborns often cry loudly & often) but they’d still need to get supplies. Which could possibly include hair dye.

There are also caves in the cliffs around Newhaven but whether there are any the tide doesn’t get into, I don’t know. Even if it stays dry it would be a pretty horrific place to live, especially for a baby.
 
supernothing said:
It's worrying if the police's last sighting was well over a month ago. Hopefully baby is in a sling and snuggled up close to CM in the released videos/images. It's such a long time ago. I can't see why any confirmed sightings wouldn't have been released though. I see they state they could be anywhere in the UK...I wonder if they have travelled to Scotland. I'm just thinking of how I would think in their shoes, Scotland's ferry ports are less likely to be on the police's radar. God knows the logistics they seem to favour taxis and I have no idea if they could afford that. Perhaps they have managed to buy a car, under the radar?

I really hope that cm and baby are safe but so much time has passed since early January in Newhaven it's hard to know what could've happened between then and now. I am really hoping for a happy ending...
Click to expand...
I honestly think they’ve smuggled their way to the continent from Newhaven (or potentially stowed away, although that seems riskier) probably a day or two after the last sighting. These are hard times and I don’t think it’s hard to believe that someone with the means to get them across the channel hidden in van/boat/ship might be persuaded by thick wad of CM’s cash
 
rightsaidfred said:
I guarantee they'll have put out a Port Alert Order - which covers both airports and ferries.

A car is quite possible - I once bought a vehicle on Instagram(!) and a friend sold her banger for cash on Facebook about 4 hours after she listed it to some blokes she described as being very dodgy - so dodgy I was concerned they hadn't updated the logbook and she'd have police knocking on her door after it was used in an offence of some description.

Buying a vehicle without anyone asking for your ID or other formalities is certainly possible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they could easily have bought another car, it is the sellers responsibility to fill out the change of keeper details, which can be done online instantly now, but they could give any name and address and there's no way for the seller to know.
 
21 February 2023
news.sky.com

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon: Missing aristocrat and boyfriend's cash 'will be coming to an end' - as new CCTV released

It has been more than six weeks since police found the car that Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were believed to be travelling in. Police released two new clips of CCTV from 8 January, the last location the pair were sighted at.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
''Two new CCTV clips have been released of a missing aristocrat and her convicted sex offender boyfriend who have been missing with their baby for more than six weeks.

Police have said the cash that they took with them will "be coming to an end".

'The first clip, from a petrol station forecourt on Avis Road, Newhaven, at 5.18am, showed the pair carrying numerous bags. They paused for a moment to exchange some words before continuing down the road.'

''They were seen sheltering from the rain, under an overpass, at about 6.00am on Sunday morning in Newhaven. Around 15 minutes later they walked into the fields beyond Cantercrow Hill.

They are believed to have moved some considerable distance since''
1677025863854.png

1677025889445.png

The second, from a house camera on Cantercrow Hill, Newhaven, showed the couple carrying what are presumably the same bags, walking speedily down the road an hour later at 6.25am.
1677025933746.png
Constance Marten and Mark Gordon on Cantercrow Hill, Newhaven. Pic: Met Police
 
MsMiniSleuth said:
A senior midwife has issued an appeal to missing Constance Marten, the aristocrat who vanished more than a month ago with her convicted sex offender boyfriend and their newborn baby.

[...]

Shereen Nimmo, director of midwifery for Barts Health NHS Trust, said: “Constance, my name is Shereen and I’m here to speak to you as a midwife and a mother. I am not here to judge you but here to help you and your baby.

“I know that you really love your baby, and I know what an exciting and worrying time being a mum can be. And I want to make sure that you and your baby are OK and get the care you need.

“After you have a baby, midwives are there to check you are recovering physically and emotionally and adjusting to caring for your newborn.

“We check your baby is feeding properly and putting on weight, and they have screening tests to make sure their heart, hearing, hips and eyesight all look OK.

“We also check for some rare conditions and put care plans in place to support them if needed.

“But it’s not too late to have these checks done and to make sure your baby is healthy.

“You’re putting your baby at risk by not accessing medical care, so it’s really important that you come and see a midwife, doctor or another healthcare professional as soon as possible.

“Babies need a safe, warm environment and all new mums are given information about safe sleeping for their baby to prevent sudden infant death syndrome.

“We know the safest place for your baby to sleep is in a cot in the same room as you. Sleeping with your baby in an unsafe environment puts them at risk.

“We’re worried that without access to midwifery and medical care, your baby might not be getting the best start in life that we know you want for them.

“Please do the right thing for your baby and go to your nearest healthcare facility so my caring colleagues can take care of you and your baby. All we want to do is help you.”

[...]

It is unknown if the baby was full-term or has any health issues, which is why officers want to find the family.

[...]

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

Fresh appeal to trace aristocrat missing with baby and sex offender boyfriend

A senior midwife has issued an appeal to missing Constance Marten, the aristocrat who vanished more than a month ago with her convicted sex offender…
www.theboltonnews.co.uk www.theboltonnews.co.uk
Click to expand...
This sounds unnecessarily alarmist about co-sleeping. If I were constance and into my own hippy parenting ideas I would be total put off. What makes these people tick? Do they not recognise the harm they could be doing? She's not stupid The greater the veiled judgement, the more unlikely she is to reveal herself and yield to medical care
 
This case has hit a nerve with me, likely because I have an 8 week old baby. I’ve no idea how we would have survived without basic sanitation and warm shelter. It’s not my first baby, but I still tore and needed stitches. Even if Constance didn’t tear, there would have been a lot of bleeding which would be exacerbated by her seemingly walking around for days and hours with her baby strapped to her. Things need to be kept clean down there as there is risk of infection.

As for the baby, it has been so cold at points that I don’t see how they could be kept warm and contented if sleeping rough. After the first few days, newborns have a tendency to scream blue murder for up to several hours a day. Dealing with this in a confined space, like a 2 man tent would be very difficult. Also there would have been hundreds of nappies, wipes, and plenty of soiled clothes by now.

I hope so much that they are somewhere safe and warm, with access to water and food.

Just my opinion.
 
rightsaidfred said:
I don't think you understand what coercive control is. You cannot prove or disprove it from CCTV.

From Women's Aid:

Domestic abuse isn’t always physical. Coercive control is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

This controlling behaviour is designed to make a person dependent by isolating them from support, exploiting them, depriving them of independence and regulating their everyday behaviour.

Coercive control creates invisible chains and a sense of fear that pervades all elements of a victim’s life. It works to limit their human rights by depriving them of their liberty and reducing their ability for action. Experts like Evan Stark liken coercive control to being taken hostage. As he says: “the victim becomes captive in an unreal world created by the abuser, entrapped in a world of confusion, contradiction and fear.”

Some common examples of coercive behaviour are:
  • Isolating you from friends and family
  • Depriving you of basic needs, such as food
  • Monitoring your time
  • Monitoring you via online communication tools or spyware
  • Taking control over aspects of your everyday life, such as where you can go, who you can see, what you can wear and when you can sleep
  • Depriving you access to support services, such as medical services
  • Repeatedly putting you down, such as saying you’re worthless
  • Humiliating, degrading or dehumanising you
  • Controlling your finances
  • Making threats or intimidating you
Coercive control - Women’s Aid

We know she became estranged from her family around the time she met him; it seems plausible that he isolated her. We can only guess what has happened behind the scenes, but clearly her and the baby's basic needs aren't being met, they're together 24/7, and she hasn't accessed medical support either pre or postnatally.

Not being physically shackled to MG doesn't mean she is able to escape, either physically or psychologically. Walking a few steps ahead means nothing - even if she wasn't in too deep psychologically, how far do you think she would get running from a taller stronger faster man while recovering from an unassisted birth and carrying a newborn?

If you read back through the thread you'll see why there is good evidence that there have been family court proceedings, and the reason for their current flight is not wanting the latest baby to be removed. It looks very much like three prior children have been removed, and as soon as the most recent pregnancy started to show they moved frequently to avoid SS becoming aware of the pregnancy, with the first the authorities knew of the pregnancy being the placenta left in the burning car.

We do not, of course, know what has triggered previous SS involvement, but domestic abuse is a common reason for SS to become involved, and coercive control is one of several ways that domestic abuse can manifest.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your comprehensive response. I am aware of what CC is and have been keeping an eye on this case through this thread and media reports.

IMO - MG is not the issue here and I base this on the fact that there has been no concern raised by her family in relation to this relationship. Press reports have not given any indication that MG has re-offended or that C is at risk from MG.

What has come to light is the involvement of the Nigerian cult/sect, as revealed by her father and a 'friend' and reported here - Aristocrat mother on the run was ‘brainwashed’ by Nigerian preacher, friend claims. The friend in this reports that C was never the same after returning from Nigeria. The return from Nigeria was well before meeting MG.

IMO - MH issues (from time with the sect/cult/church in Nigeria) and perhaps life choices are the reasons why there is concern for the child.

You mention previous children - are they all assumed to be fathered by MG?

ETA - to make language more concise.
 
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wizardizzo76 said:
This sounds unnecessarily alarmist about co-sleeping. If I were constance and into my own hippy parenting ideas I would be total put off. What makes these people tick? Do they not recognise the harm they could be doing? She's not stupid The greater the veiled judgement, the more unlikely she is to reveal herself and yield to medical care
Click to expand...
I agree. I know the midwives mean well and do important work but it’s going to sound like a lot of condescension to someone who is rejecting “the system” right now and can’t see it having the desired result.

CM is not stupid as you say and will be well aware of what a midwife would be encouraging from her with a small baby if she were following society’s conventions right now. I think a simple: “we think you’ve been sleeping outdoors so please go to any hospital and get the little one checked out, that’s the priority,” would work better than everything on a checklist for the first few months being put into a statement.
 
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