UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #13

[jessie]

Jessie, do u have that missing persons invest protocols etc. link still handy?

ETA Clevercat post above me^ , wish they would put out an "amnesty"announcement on that phone ( as Mum did re. under-age drinker witnesses) so that anyone who found it but not involved in his disapp could come forward.

Hi cottonweaver - Is this theo ne you mean? I searched so much info :thinking:

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/Missing-Persons-2005-ACPO-Guidance.pdf

 

[MidsummersDay]

Erm, hang on a minute...have I read this incorrectly? Barton Mills at 0425? Presumably that's a mistake and she means BSE?

Q&A '.........given all of that though his phone left Barton Mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry....It appears his phone has probably gone with the bin lorry and ended up at the tip...'


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[Dcflag]

Erm, hang on a minute...have I read this incorrectly? Barton Mills at 0425? Presumably that's a mistake and she means BSE?

Q&A '.........given all of that though his phone left Barton Mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry....It appears his phone has probably gone with the bin lorry and ended up at the tip...'


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I noticed this also. It's at a point where you kind of want to sit down and stamp your feet because every time you find something and put time and effort into something it turns out it's not even accurate.

How hard is it to give definitive times for arrival of the bin lorry, or the times and places of the phone pings? Why not just say nothing at all?

This must be a nightmare for the police all this family's detective work. It's just made general public feel more entitled to updates

 

[lusijay]

I just checked back to see if I had maybe transcribed incorrectly, but she does say Barton Mills, i'm presuming she misspoke, annoying though! x

 

[MidsummersDay]

Not sure the dust has settled from the last 'phone ping' debacle in Threads 3-11 yet but here goes...


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[Coach]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a "social hand grenade" who was pretty drunk, "talking to everyone" that night, apparently very "in your face", who would "go off with total strangers", could ever resist an open door, with the possibility of people/a party/somewhere warm to sleep inside?
Making his way past the entrance to the horseshoe, the open door of Focus 12/whatever that building was, catches his eye, he looks around sheepishly to see if anyone is about to catch him going in, realises there isn't and heads off inside.
Person inside thinks he's a burglar/dangerous, bops him on the head with something, kills him. Or maybe he interrupted something he shouldn't have and was attacked.
Sadly the expression regarding curiosity and a cat, comes to mind.

Another thing I've wondered is if someone was in Flex and gave him a key to Focus 12/THAT building. Could it be that's the small item is that he dropped, picked up & put in his shirt pocket on the CCTV footage?
He knows he isn't meant to be in there, he's looking for the entrance as he walks past the horseshoe, sees the gate/door and goes in? Not 100% sure what would happen for him to meet his demise under those circumstances but I don't think it would be impossible for something to go wrong and him be hurt.
The perp at some point, maybe for the second time that evening, exits the building, opportunistically throws phone, keys, wallet in the bin trunk as it happens to be there.

Just my thoughts.
Reposted due to being unable to edit my first post

If someone has given him a key to access the F12 building, would he not have gone there earlier as oppose to sleeping in a shop doorway?

 

[cottonweaver]

Hi cottonweaver - Is this theo ne you mean? I searched so much info :thinking:

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/Missing-Persons-2005-ACPO-Guidance.pdf

Thankyou. Wanted an opportunity to see it from the police's point of view for a change.....that's 133 pages worth ! It'll be handy for reference though. pg. 129 "Dealing with Websleuths & sundry armchair detectives"









:winkaway:

ETA - oh dear, just seen post 25!!!

 

[Coach]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a "social hand grenade" who was pretty drunk, "talking to everyone" that night, apparently very "in your face", who would "go off with total strangers", could ever resist an open door, with the possibility of people/a party/somewhere warm to sleep inside?
Making his way past the entrance to the horseshoe, the open door of Focus 12/whatever that building was, catches his eye, he looks around sheepishly to see if anyone is about to catch him going in, realises there isn't and heads off inside.
Person inside thinks he's a burglar/dangerous, bops him on the head with something, kills him. Or maybe he interrupted something he shouldn't have and was attacked.
Sadly the expression regarding curiosity and a cat, comes to mind.

Another thing I've wondered is if someone was in Flex and gave him a key to Focus 12/THAT building. Could it be that's the small item is that he dropped, picked up & put in his shirt pocket on the CCTV footage?
He knows he isn't meant to be in there, he's looking for the entrance as he walks past the horseshoe, sees the gate/door and goes in? Not 100% sure what would happen for him to meet his demise under those circumstances but I don't think it would be impossible for something to go wrong and him be hurt.
The perp at some point, maybe for the second time that evening, exits the building, opportunistically throws phone, keys, wallet in the bin trunk as it happens to be there.

Just my thoughts.
Reposted due to being unable to edit my first post

If someone had given him a key for F12, would he not have gone there earlier as oppose to sleeping in a shop doorway?

 

[hazel324]

Well done for doing this lusijay, helpful info :yourock:

Midsummer...please amend timeline re: bin lorry in HS

Please find below, a transcript of the Live Q & A with Nicola Urquhart, Corrie's mother. I am currently transcribing part two and will post this in a few hours.
Just so people can use as a reference. I asked admin permission first as I was't sure if I was allowed to post this. Hope it helps. x




FACEBOOK LIVE Q & A - SESSION ONE 28/12/2016


On the subject of Corrie leaving the horseshoe - He cannot leave the horseshoe on foot without being seen on the CCTV.


*User asks if the slurry pits at the sugar beet factory have been searched*


The slurry pits at Sugar Beet factory are fenced all the way around, police decided he shouldn't have been able to get in without CCTV or security guards catching him so they've allowed security to monitor it on their own. With slurry pits they know its dangerous and they have full assistance of the security monitoring as if Corrie has come in it means he would rise to top if he was in one of slurry pits.


*User asks if any mutual aid from other forces?*


MIT team part of Norfolk and Suffolk are involved but we don't know if they've asked for more assistance. Thats’ something for police to answer, i’ll gather questions for them and send an open letter soon.


*User asks do we have any positive leads?*


Not easy to answer, as we know Corrie has gone into the horseshoe area at 3.25 and has not been seen leaving on foot, only 4 vehicles go in between 3am and 6am - one is the BIFFA bin lorry at 4.20 and it takes 4 minutes to pick up the one bin from Greggs, which is predominantly cardboard and packaging, the way they charge the businesses is they weigh rubbish that they take so it was weighed in the bin before going into the back of lorry and it was about 11 kg. It was calibrated and there was seen to be a margin of error of a few grams. The police looked back at the previous 7 months history for that specific bin and it was always between 10 and 15 kg. Corrie probably weighs between 85 and 90 kg so there’s no way he was physically in the bin. Could there be other options? Yes but as far as him falling asleep or climbing in by mistake we appear to be able to rule that out.


The bin lorry has then left Bury St Edmunds and it has driven direct to barton mills roundabout then Waitrose (supermarket) in Mildenhall and picked up a bin there. The bin man can be seen doing his job as normal on CCTV there. He picks up rubbish and carries on with the rest of his shift. Now I’ve explained what’s happened with lorry but police also had a collision investigator to check the outside and under the vehicle to see if there are any signs of an accident and they had investigators check in the rear of the bin wagon and in the cab for any signs he had been there. That was a few weeks after Corrie went missing but still no trace of him in that vehicle and no trace at the scene by CSI that he'd been run over by the lorry or something happened there.


There is a reversing camera on the lorry but it doesn’t record. The driver has been spoken to on a number of occasions. He arrived at 4.20am and thought he saw Corrie in the horseshoe but through investigation by the police, this male is seen on CCTV there but it isn't Corrie. He has now been identified as people saw him on the footage in the pod and I have too, it was a man standing using his phone so it’s not the case that the bin man saw Corrie.


*User asks is it possible he jumped into the rear without being seen by the bin man*


Yes, it would be possible but CCTV sees the vehicle leave and has smooth sides so he couldn't hold on to it and he cant be seen on or under it as it leaves the horseshoe - given all of that though his phone left barton mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry. We asked police to make enquires as to if the phone would work in the back of bin lorry as it may act as a faraday cage and we’re waiting for results. The results won’t be scientific but will give us reassurance that he hasn't been in the lorry with his phone.


It appears his phone has probably gone with the bin lorry and ended up at the tip but we couldn't be sure that he hasn't climbed in the back so we looked at the process the bin goes through at the local tip.


So, the bin lorry goes through a few different process. First, it dumps off everything from the back and it’s then sorted into 2 piles. One for incineration and rest is to landfill or recycling. It’s then sorted and put into other piles. BIFFA and the police believe Corrie’s mobile could go through this process and not be seen, but a body is too large to go through without being seen going to landfill. Incineration is a different matter. The process is that the burners are 1100 degrees celsius because they try to protect the metals that go through. Bone cant be burnt at that temperature, it has to be 1600 degrees average so if Corrie ended up there the process is that anything left goes to a conveyer belt which is operated and sorted by hand so metals can be taken, I understand on paper it’s easy to explain that’s how it works and it shouldn't be case that he would go unnoticed, however we will be looking for more reassurance of how it physically happens. As a family we are not happy that the tip wasn't searched.


I believe there are ways of getting information from his social media accounts and phone but without getting his phone physically, things like whatsapp you can’t see. Police can get numbers and times but they cant access the messages themselves. There could simply be a request to meet at this time etc and we need this to get more hope this is a mistake that’s been made, but it’s private land so we won’t ever be able to search with out permission, we haven’t stopped trying to get this to happen though.




*User asks could the phone have been taken by the bin man?*


I don't like to say this as he is utterly innocent and I don't want him to feel this is an attack on him but it is a question we have asked police. We’ve asked them to put a phone in the cab to see if still can get a signal.


*User asks have the flats been searched in horseshoe area?*


In the horseshoe a lot of properties look like flats but are not, apart from one. All others are business premises e.g Greggs, Eye Candy, Super Drug etc and nobody lives above. The only way to gain access to above these shops is at the front of the shops, except for one building which is accessed through a large white gate and this place is called Focus 12, a drug rehab accommodation for people to stay whilst in rehab. This centre has been searched forensically on a number of occasions and they have complied with all requests. There was apparently nobody staying that weekend that Corrie went missing, however i was standing outside on another week when two men walked out and I asked them and they said “Don't say anything as we’re not supposed to be here”. So the police have been told nobody was there, but I know people stay when they’re not supposed to. But there is only so much the police can do if people aren't being honest with them.


A large problem I have had from the start is although the horseshoe has been forensically searched and helicopters and cadaver dogs have searched back to front and top to bottom and been in every single room in horseshoe, there’s no sign, however they haven't done the same on the other side of the road. As easy as he can get into a property in the horseshoe, he could have got into property on the other side of the road.


*End Session*

 

[c4nd1_83]

They are not giving any info regarding other vehicles atm Nicola said in her Q&A because of ongoing investigation into them.

What we do know is 1 vehicle had no reason to be there.

We also know that the vehicles came and went from 3am to 6am. So this indicates before Corrie went into the HS at 3:24am Vehicles 1, 2, 3, could have been already there. We know vehicle 4 was the bin lorry at 4:20am.

The phone ping along the same times as the bin lorry. So it was either in it, or one of the other 3 vehicles was following close behind. CCTV should be able to show this if thats the case. Police will know.

So lets say the bin lorry left and no car left within 10 minutes after, then the phone WAS in the bin lorry.

Its not rocket science...

If a car did leave within minutes after the bin lorry then the phone was either in the bin lorry or in the other vehicle. If this is the vehicle that had no reason to be there, then this is the PERP.


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[MidsummersDay]

Not sure the dust has settled from the last 'phone ping' debacle in Threads 3-11 yet but here goes...


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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalkwhen you look at the departure times from the stated 0424/5 compared to the maps they do seem to correlate.

 

[cottonweaver]

I noticed this also. It's at a point where you kind of want to sit down and stamp your feet because every time you find something and put time and effort into something it turns out it's not even accurate.

How hard is it to give definitive times for arrival of the bin lorry, or the times and places of the phone pings? Why not just say nothing at all?

This must be a nightmare for the police all this family's detective work. It's just made general public feel more entitled to updates

These sentiments are familiar and I've only been following the case & threads for a few days! As for UL, is it cynical to say - maybe any publicity/pressure is useful? Misinterpretation of info doesn't help either.

 

[MidsummersDay]

They are not giving any info regarding other vehicles atm Nicola said in her Q&A because of ongoing investigation into them.

What we do know is 1 vehicle had no reason to be there.

We also know that the vehicles came and went from 3am to 6am. So this indicates before Corrie went into the HS at 3:24am Vehicles 1, 2, 3, could have been already there. We know vehicle 4 was the bin lorry at 4:20am.

The phone ping along the same times as the bin lorry. So it was either in it, or one of the other 3 vehicles was following close behind. CCTV should be able to show this if thats the case. Police will know.

So lets say the bin lorry left and no car left within 10 minutes after, then the phone WAS in the bin lorry.

Its not rocket science...

If a car did leave within minutes after the bin lorry then the phone was either in the bin lorry or in the other vehicle. If this is the vehicle that had no reason to be there, then this is the PERP.


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Spot on Sherlock!


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[Clevercat]

They are not giving any info regarding other vehicles atm Nicola said in her Q&A because of ongoing investigation into them.

What we do know is 1 vehicle had no reason to be there.

We also know that the vehicles came and went from 3am to 6am. So this indicates before Corrie went into the HS at 3:24am Vehicles 1, 2, 3, could have been already there. We know vehicle 4 was the bin lorry at 4:20am.

The phone ping along the same times as the bin lorry. So it was either in it, or one of the other 3 vehicles was following close behind. CCTV should be able to show this if thats the case. Police will know.

So lets say the bin lorry left and no car left within 10 minutes after, then the phone WAS in the bin lorry.

Its not rocket science...

If a car did leave within minutes after the bin lorry then the phone was either in the bin lorry or in the other vehicle. If this is the vehicle that had no reason to be there, then this is the PERP.


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BIB- I agree that if the timing is right, this vehicle may well have transported Corrie from the HS area but the driver may have just been giving him a lift OR hooked up with him but dropped him off later for him to continue his journey on foot.
There are many reasons why the driver may not be coming forward so I think it's important to keep an open mind about his/her actions that night in the absence of any other info.

 

[MidsummersDay]

If the bin lorry was on BM roundabout at 0455 and Corrie's phone entered the BM mast area at 0453, for the phone to be accurately linked to the bin lorry it has to cover 3-5kms in 1min 30secs for it to be in the bin lorry surely?
It would mean that the phone would have to travel between 75mph and 124mph to meet the criteria!

I'm discounting the bin lorry AND the driver based on that and calling into question a car and driver/perp with Corrie and his phone being in it.
JMO


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[Bedouin]

It seems a lot of people are so sure Corrie jumped into the bin lorry. I don't believe that both the lorry driver and the guy who was in the horseshoe on a phone(?). Managed to miss him.

 

[Clevercat]

If the bin lorry was at BM roundabout at 0455 and Corrie's phone entered the BM mast area at 0453, the phone has to cover 3-5kms in 1min 30secs for it to be in the bin lorry surely?
JMO


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Indeed

 

[Clevercat]

If the bin lorry was on BM roundabout at 0455 and Corrie's phone entered the BM mast area at 0453, for the phone to be accurately linked to the bin lorry it has to cover 3-5kms in 1min 30secs for it to be in the bin lorry surely?
It would mean that the phone would have to travel between 75mph and 124mph to meet the criteria!

I'm discounting the bin lorry AND the driver based on that and calling into question a car and driver/perp with Corrie and his phone being in it.
JMO


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I agree with you

 

[Dcflag]

These sentiments are familiar and I've only been following the case & threads for a few days! As for UL, is it cynical to say - maybe any publicity/pressure is useful? Misinterpretation of info doesn't help either.

Perhaps it is in some way but I don't know if it's worth it muddying facts and slamming le.

And hooray for finally excluding the bin lorry!

 

[c4nd1_83]

This Focus12 place. Is this actually in the HS area? I have seen a white gated area in the corner of the HS. Is this it?

Nicola has said early on that it would have been possible to hide Corrie in the HS and come back later to het rid of him so to speak. I thought was odd as someone would have seen him surely, but if this Focus12 place is where I am thinking it is in the HS and that it wasn't occupied that wkend, then I think, yes you could hide a body there and come back later.

As Nicola has said, she see 2 people come out of there and they told her themselves they wasn't supposed to be there.

Ok its been forensically examined and searched. But how many weeks later was that?! Enough time to get rid of any dna, evidence etc for sure.

So lets say something happened to Corrie by someone using that Focus12 building. Maybe the ushered him over, it kicked off, one punch can do it. They discarded his phone in the waste. Body in the Focus12 yard.

Shame the never collated CCTV for the whole wkend. Big mistake!




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