UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #15

[Blueazman74]

Thank you for that. The tree in the middle of the screen was throwing me off. I went back and found the video of the expert walking the area on youtube and that tree is barely visible. It's either been trimmed or the darkness makes it look bigger.

It's a hanging basket!


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[Northern Light]

Can I just throw in here, since people seem to be mentioning it a lot, that forensic testing, specifically DNA testing as a part of an active line of enquiry ought to be consigned to the rubbish bin of history.

If you're using it as the icing on the cake of a well worked investigation then maybe it has some merit, but using it as an investigative tool just leads to lazy Policing, lazy investigating, lazy thinking, and dismal outcomes.

Especially in the UK where we use the "more akin to witchcraft than science" of low copy number DNA profiling.

I was going to use fairies as an example, but lets use squirrels instead.

Suppose someone says to you that a squirrel was seen in an specific area, and I say to you that I don't believe squirrels exist, you can prove me 100% wrong by going out and coming back with a squirrel in a specimen jar - there can then be no argument - squirrels clearly DO exist.

If you went out to that location but found no squirrels or evidence of them and you come back with an empty specimen jar - that does NOT prove that squirrels do not exist - it just proves you didn't find any.

I can't say "aha - I was right, you see, squirrels clearly do NOT exist". That would be nonsense, but that is eactly what happens with DNA profiling in particular.

If some DNA of Corrie as an example was found in the cab of the bin truck - some skin, blood, saliva, hair, semen, or whatever - all that this would prove is that his DNA is there.

It doesn't explain HOW it got there, it might infer a few things, but it is not proof of one thing or another, just that his genetic material somehow got there.

If you tested that cab and there is NO DNA material - that does not mean he wasn't there, or his genetic material wasn't there - just that either a) you didn't find t, or b) it wasn't deposited there.

It DOES NOT mean (like the absense of squirrels) that they/it does not exist / wasn't in that place.

But it seems like this is how the Police operate, particularly in the Uk where they like to use low copy number DNA profiling which is so full of holes it makes a swiss cheese look particularly solid.

Lets not forget that not so long ago the Police were searching for a missing girl called Tia Sharp, and despite searching the loft umpteen times they failed to find her body wrapped up in bin liners - right where it had been all alog, it was only as the summer got hotter, and the body decomposed that it became obvious that this is where she was.

So, if they can't find a whole body in a small area after numerous searches, why on earth does anyone put any faith in the notion that they'll find DNA - potentially microscopic particles in any other area?

And if they do and they use low copy DNA technoques (trying to analyse DNA that is 1 milionth the size of a grain of salt) - it's useless - read this if you don't believe it - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7154189.stm

So they didn't find Corries DNA in the cab, or the truck or on the utside of the truck, or in the horseshoe, or the bins - SO WHAT?

What they need to do is start by THINKING then INVESTIGATING then using these tools later as the final touches.

It seems they start with them FIRST, then shape their thinking - if you can call it that - based on the outcomes.

It is not the way to go, thinking first, investigating second, testing third or later than that even.

They will never solve this if they don't get back to basic real world hands on Policing - but sadly THAT is what seems to have been consigned to the rubbish bin of history - the thing that actually works.

Great post! And as UT puts it just because they didn't find a trace of him in ABC doesn't mean he wasn't there. Old Fashioned Police techniques. I would add too old fashioned journalism!

 

[Shiressleuth]

It's a hanging basket!


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Those blooming hanging baskets have a lot to answer for.
ETA JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Great post! And as UT puts it just because they didn't find a trace of him in ABC doesn't mean he wasn't there. Old Fashioned Police techniques. I would add too old fashioned journalism!

Trouble is you need the new fangled stuff to prove the squirrel was there to a jury and judge.

 

[eagle eyes]

So, cadaver dogs are being sent to search buildings in BSE. I know these things take time, but it is over 3 months since he was last seen here so it is curious to me that this has taken so long? Would it not also make sense for these dogs to be used at the tips where the bin lorry was reported to stop?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Looks like this guy has a MAHOOSIVE handlebar 'tash to me?
JMO


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Only one family member (and also in my wider circle) I have ever known with handlebar moustache and he was in the RAF. Joking aside, maybe that is why he hasn't been identified because his ginger moustache isn't showing well on cctv.

 

[Northern Light]

Only one family member (and also in my wider circle) I have ever known with handlebar moustache and he was in the RAF. Joking aside, maybe that is why he hasn't been identified because his ginger moustache isn't showing well on cctv.

It's not showing well at all, you are right.

 

[MidsummersDay]

Does anyone know if this is true please ...... That the bin trucks can only weigh upto 99kg and then reset to zero so if Corrie was in bin and say it weighed 11kgs could really mean it weighed 111kgs or would this of been properly checked

These are commercial (business) 1100 litre capacity 'bins' in the 'Horseshoe' area. The refuse vehicle would be a very large LGV/HGV. It has to be to lift the bin. The arm is lowered and the bin is lifted off the ground. At the same time the weighing system weighs the bin. This gives a gross weight, a combination of bin and refuse. It is accurate to within grams. Full documentation is used as a matter of law to keep track of the refuse, from collection to end user (recycle tip/refuse depot/landfill etc). A figure is ascertained and the bin is then emptied into the bin lorry. As the bin is lowered to the floor, another weighing opportunity is presented and the net weight is now entered into the documentation for billing purposes. The bin is then wheeled away from the bin lorry, placed in its original position and the driver goes along his merry way.
Hope this helps.



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[Ruthbullock]

So, cadaver dogs are being sent to search buildings in BSE. I know these things take time, but it is over 3 months since he was last seen here so it is curious to me that this has taken so long? Would it not also make sense for these dogs to be used at the tips where the bin lorry was reported to stop?

Is it linked to the buildings on the other side of the road though, they were never considered until the family placed pressure on the police to search them last week. I thought the dogs had been around some of the bins already.

 

[Northern Light]

Trouble is you need the new fangled stuff to prove the squirrel was there to a jury and judge.

Absolutely.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

OK here goes . I keep watching the first video where Corrie drops something and cant help but notice a bicycle attached to the lamp post out side the Grapes. It may be tricks on the eyes but I can't help but feel he bends down picks something up and wacks his head on the bicycle handles on the bike attached to the lamppost . It may just be the quality of the video but he does look decidedly more wobbly after bending down and standing up than he did before.

http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/2016/10/02/cctv-footage/

 

[Shiressleuth]

So, cadaver dogs are being sent to search buildings in BSE. I know these things take time, but it is over 3 months since he was last seen here so it is curious to me that this has taken so long? Would it not also make sense for these dogs to be used at the tips where the bin lorry was reported to stop?

No body was in bin only 11kg which was sorted and incinerated. Suffolk has no landfill to search only 'waste to energy sites' . So no landfill to search basically.
Edit. The website doesn't say buildings but just says town centre AFAIK.

 

[MidsummersDay]

the hotel thoughts come from the phone finally 'disappearing' from contact at 8 am. If there was a meeting it could have gone wrong overnight?

If it was a hotel liaison then he and his loss on would have needed to have left or got rid of the body before 1100 as that's usually hotel/B&B kicking out time.
JMO


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[Ruthbullock]

These are commercial (business) 1100 litre capacity 'bins' in the 'Horseshoe' area. The refuse vehicle would be a very large LGV/HGV. It has to be to lift the bin. The arm is lowered and the bin is lifted off the ground. At the same time the weighing system weighs the bin. This gives a gross weight, a combination of bin and refuse. It is accurate to within grams. Full documentation is used as a matter of law to keep track of the refuse, from collection to end user (recycle tip/refuse depot/landfill etc). A figure is ascertained and the bin is then emptied into the bin lorry. As the bin is lowered to the floor, another weighing opportunity is presented and the net weight is now entered into the documentation for billing purposes. The bin is then wheeled away from the bin lorry, placed in its original position and the driver goes along his merry way.
Hope this helps.



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On top of this, the bin lorry will also have a tacograph and more than likely a little box (like new drivers get to lower car insurance)- these have been analysed as well. Refuse places are also surrounded with cctv, and piles more safeguarding measures so that a body can't be processed, or would be spotted during processing. Phone in bin, possibly- CM in bin really unlikely, even if he had been attacked there. If you knock someone off in an alleyway at a time of day that is quite quiet and little cc tv footage- you would either leave the body, or remove the body- why just tamper with it a little and move it out of sight, and if you were going to make some effort, but as little as possible would you not just drag it behind the big white gates or a bin.

 

[Amonet]

I didn't even notice the bike in the video before! If you play at normal speed it does look like he's hit his head on the handlebars, but if you go full screen and slow it down, then he looks like his shoulders are at least a foot from the handlebars and his head even further away, at least imo.

ETA going full screen I thought it looked like there was a bag on top of the polystyrene lidded box from the takeaway. I don't know what would be in there, if it was one, from the list of things Corrie got at the takeaway? Does anyone else see it? It might be a second polystyrene box actually, he was walking along trying to do something with the to box/bag and that's why he dropped something, because he was fussing with the food containers as he walked. I couldn't see that before in the smaller version video.

 

[MidsummersDay]

Where did midsummers map go with areas he felt should be searched? )might be the phone ping one)

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[Rosegold68]

salad/sauce
? like from indian takeaway

 

[eagle eyes]

If it was a hotel liaison then he and his loss on would have needed to have left or got rid of the body before 1100 as that's usually hotel/B&B kicking out time.
JMO


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the 'plan' could have been to get C back to BSE in time to move car. only a thought, as it still leaves questions unanswered

 

[Amonet]

salad/sauce
? like from indian takeaway

Going back and looking again as the video starts, I think it might be a second polystyrene box balanced on the other one (which was the only one most people could 'see' and made people wonder what happened to the rest of the food). Corrie was fussing with the one on top, it looks open as if he's eating while walking, and that fussing with the box is why he dropped the chip or the wooden fork on the ground near the bike.

It's only by going full screen that I've seen all this. And after I typed it I realised that's what Nicola said had happened! He was eating as he was walking, started dropping stuff, and headed for Hughes doorway to sit and eat. It might not have been a planned place to sit but more a place of convenience to sit because he was dropping his food as he was eating.

 

[mrseeker]

I wonder if they continue to review the CCTV from Saturday. Could he have napped under the stairs in HS and when workers opened the shops, walked unnoticed to the front of the store and out into the crowd?