UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #20

[Cherwell]

I wouldn't say passing out on concrete outdoors for a few hours is a good sleep. I would guess he was hypothermic when he woke up and the bin seemed like a cosy place to continue his nap in.

Yes, I think when he woke up he would have felt worse for the impromptu nap. Falling asleep in an uncomfortable place, whether through drink or fatigue, is not usually refreshing and just makes you want to find somewhere more comfortable. He looks quite miserable in the last CCTV, and certainly no longer smart so it was too late to be worrying about the state of his clothes. I doubt by this stage he would have felt like a 10 mile walk, whatever his earlier intentions.

Exactly, it looks very suspicious to me. He looks nervous and he has little reason to jog or look around too much as the streets are practically empty.

He looks cold to me, and he would have been stiff and uncomfortable after sleeping in a doorway. Quite natural to try and loosen up with a stretch and perhaps a jog. The streets may look empty, but we know that there were actually quite a few people around in the early hours, so he had every reason to look around.

 

[Rayemonde]

After all that has been said and done, it's so frustrating to think Corrie being killed by accident, because he wanted to take a nap in a bin!?! Why would he do such a thing? It was a warm night, he just ate and had a good sleep and he had planned to walk home. What was in HS, that changed his mind to go into a bin? This part is so strange to me...?!

I don't see the big mystery. He was drunk and that obviously affected his judgement. If someone is drunk enough to sleep in a doorway on the street, where they could be mugged or assaulted or arrested, they are drunk enough to sleep in a bin. Jmo.

 

[Mrsdarcey]

haven't commented on this before, right from the start most posts I've read have been along the lines of C not needing to sleep because he'd already had a sleep and would haev sobered up a bit, now I'm no longer a big drinker but in my younger days when I was a 90 minute nap would no way have been enough for me to be raring to go again. It would just make me want to sleep more, I've thought that I must be the one who was unusual but now I think maybe not and it's simply a case of C needing to get some more sleep.

That said I'm still having difficulty with the idea that he would voluntarily get into a bin which involves a bit of physical exertion when you could just sit down again.

It seems that most people found in bins are rough sleepers which is more understandable as they will have a routine they've built up over their time on the streets.

And I have read all the links about drunks in bins, IMO it's a pretty rare event

JMO

I have always been against him sleeping in the bin voluntarily, because I wouldnt do it but I'm starting to waiver a little, I have to admit.

Arguments for getting in the bin voluntarily:
1.He felt cold, he had his hands in his pockets was he cold?
2.He was hiding
3.He is in the military so he might be trained to make the most of his surroundings so it made sense to him. I.e. It's off the ground, insulated.
4.He was still under the influence and drunk people do silly things. Does a skipping step into shot so possibly still quite drunk.
5. He is embarrassed about anyone seeing him get into a bin so looks round.
6. Is it a thing that lads do nowadays? Had sleeping in bin become a bit normalised among young military lads? Had he seen it on SM?
7. No blood found at scene.

Arguments against getting in the bin voluntarily:
1. It doesn't appear that cold, I personally still wouldn't get in a bin even if I were freezing cold and I was drunk on a night out, however I would consider regularly if I were homeless. Maybe a homeless guy was already in the bin?
2. He has his car to sleep in. But maybe he lost his keys?
3. Had he sobered up a bit after food and sleep?
4. If you were that drunk I think it would be quite difficult to climb into a bin.
5. I would associate ending up in a bin more with "haha there's a drunk guy let's put him in the bin for a laugh" but no one was there.
6. The bin would heavy to move.

Can anyone answer:

1. Why do you think we aren't allowed to see the CCTV just before he does the skipping/ running step?
2. Who is 4 minute man?
3. Does running man actually run past the HS or go into it?
4. I'm confused about the cardboard recycling bin scenario TBH, why would it go to landfill? (What is the point in sorting my **** into so many bins/boxes/bags)
5. Why wouldn't the cyclist come forward if there was no foul play?

 

[Taskforce88]

After all that has been said and done, it's so frustrating to think Corrie being killed by accident, because he wanted to take a nap in a bin!?! Why would he do such a thing? It was a warm night, he just ate and had a good sleep and he had planned to walk home. What was in HS, that changed his mind to go into a bin? This part is so strange to me...?!

Well drunk people do silly things, I know I have done daft things that I wouldn't do sober. Why would he walk back to base when he could just sleep off the drink and then jump in his car the next day? He was possibly beginning to feel cold, warm night or not. Alcohol affects the core body temperature.

 

[Simone44]

That guy survived, so why did Corrie die? He wasn't that drunk anymore and he was a fit young man. Surely he must have woken up and start shouting and banging. Or was the driver listening music and not looking at the cameras? And why was the bin lorry 30 mins in HS? <modsnip>

I agree.I have found several newspaper articles from both UK and US press about men who fell asleep in bins,were collected by bin lorries and partially compacted, but who managed to call the police on their mobiles and got rescued.

 

[guruagain]

I am still not 100% convinced he willingly climbed into a bin. Taking cardboard out of the bin and making a little shelter maybe but climbing in for shelter?

 

[Cherwell]

I agree.I have found several newspaper articles from both UK and US press about men who fell asleep in bins,were collected by bin lorries and partially compacted, but who managed to call the police on their mobiles and got rescued.

Others have not been so lucky though. What if they hit their heads and were knocked unconscious at the start of the process?

 

[Amonet]

1. Why do you think we aren't allowed to see the CCTV just before he does the skipping/ running step?
2. Who is 4 minute man?
3. Does running man actually run past the HS or go into it?
4. I'm confused about the cardboard recycling bin scenario TBH, why would it go to landfill? (What is the point in sorting my **** into so many bins/boxes/bags)
5. Why wouldn't the cyclist come forward if there was no foul play?

I think you made a great pros and cons list.

I don't think your questions can be answered by us.

I would say, though...

1. Police don't consider it necessary for the public to see it, so they don't release more than is necessary
2. No one's been told who he was, only that he came out of the horseshoe 4 minutes after Corrie entered, and we haven't been told that he saw Corrie.
3. Runs past it and turns right between the museum and McDonalds, I think?
4. Doesn't make any sense. They're supposed to sell recyclables to make money from them and to turn into recycled goods. There's no monetary reason to pay to have them go to landfill. The thing is that it's still a market in which saleable value goes up and down. If there's a glut of recyclable material around and all the processing factories are full, then the value could be too low to warrant shipping to China or wherever it goes for processing. Did it get marked as contaminated? Did it go to incinerator instead of recycling (at least that way some money is recouped, unless it costs to much to transport a bundle of cardboard to the incinerator?)
5. Doesn't know he's wanted. Not good enough cctv images for his neighbours and friends to recognise him and put his name forward?

 

[Taskforce88]

Ah so the cyclist hasn't come forward yet?

However he/she not regarded as a potential witness are they?

 

[Cherwell]

Ah so the cyclist hasn't come forward yet?

However he/she not regarded as a potential witness are they?

I thought the police were still only looking for two people: the man at McDonalds and the person seen by the No Entry sign. (As far as we know, that is)
When was the last time they asked for information on the cyclist?

 

[Taskforce88]

I thought the police were still only looking for two people: the man at McDonalds and the person seen by the No Entry sign. (As far as we know, that is)
When was the last time they asked for information on the cyclist?

I cant remember the last time, I was under the impression that they had been identified along with the black car driver who the cyclist was seen talking too.

 

[Amonet]

You're right, Cherwell. The cyclist did come forward.

 

[Taskforce88]

You're right, Cherwell. The cyclist did come forward.

That's what I thought, I was reading another comment saying 'why would the cyclist not come forward'.

 

[Cherwell]

This is the thing, the police seek information but don't give much out. They only tell the public as much as they think the public needs to know. So in the case of witness appeals, they don't tell us about each and every one, they just stop asking about them until we reach a stage when they'll say, right, we're still looking for persons X and Y. From which we can assume everyone else is accounted for. They might have tracked down McD Man or No Entry person by now, but they haven't told us.

 

[Aye]

As said before MOD staff are taught survival, running could have been to get the blood pumping for heat, C either runs for this reason or meeting someone, his body language when he stops is looking for shelter or meeting someone looks around then something or someone gets his attention more so directly, does a bin or a person get his attention ?

Further to meeting someone scenario, I have used FabSwingers before - I never met anyone as all the woman local to me are almost obese and like myself I carry a few pounds not stones. I can tell you people with profiles as 'straight' can publically or privately indulge in same sex private conversations or meets and many do - I had more messages from 'straight' men than woman. Society is less homophobic 50 years later but still very biphobic - if two people are of sane mind and old enough then why not, society has to get over its self, biology is to recreate and that's sex.

I'm not wishing to disrespect N or C or the family but any public service worker knows ANYONE can have a 'secret' side - if C was bi/bi curious and as I said a high % of FabS are or become so bicurious/bi and may end up using other sites/apps & why it was imperative to get the mobile (VPN use) and that was dismissed when it was the only solid lead at the time.

It is also telling N disputes C was gay but does not rule out bi nor confirm, so maybe information from Fab other sites etc may point to such/meets, there are also different situations someone may partake in bisexuality: MMF three or more etc not exclusively only MM/M meetings.

It is further not unknown for MOD staff to do such with each other: you can solidify team work/bonding further, when you train in live fire there is a tendency not to worry about where what you do sexually, you live life at the extreme edge.

It could have been as MSM a jealous lover/ex accessing a profile, it could have been one or more MOD staff who are trained to go undetected, how hard is it to have one or more persons on outwatch on a mobile when to leave the HS as a camera moves clearing the way. I say this because all his mates 'left' him at base and he sent a picture of a previous night out to someone circa 3am wasn't it ? There may have been issues at MOD.


It could have been chance, he also could have slept in the bin, but given the mobile held high possible evidence it should have been treated as highest priority - because it was, it was the only solid evidence to follow, SP didn't. There are so many things that cant be ruled out because that ONLY lead was not followed. I think after we get C, a iPCC complaint will be raised, as a officer N knows herself or C dad rocking the boat too much until C is located is a absolute nono, SP being defensive & closing rank is the worst situation these parents want before information or C is found. N has already had their back up a few times in criticism, but following what you know to be Police professionalism of best practice & remaining objective and being in her position as a mother is horrendous but by far I think she has done a great job of containing her dissatisfaction knowing protocols to keep her criticism at a minimum publically. N knows the only solid lead was the mobile, SP refused to follow it - as a police employee N knows this to be unprofessional standard and that may have been discussed with SP but not in public, or straight to iPCC with everything at the right time.


I asked earlier about how close the bin/s were to the corner of the building as C looks down at someone or the bin before going off cam - I am circa the same height as C and when I am at the local recycling point I don't need to look as far down as C does in the last on-cam footage with these metal industrial standard sized dump bins.

 

[guruagain]

amonet -IMO Corrie is already past the bins (and bike rack come to that) when he stops and looks right. Compare the video footage of where his feet are to streetview, the pavement angles back toward the bin area. The bins appear to usually sit against the wall and don't even stick out as far as the line of the tree.

 

[Cherwell]

amonet -IMO Corrie is already past the bins (and bike rack come to that) when he stops and looks right. Compare the video footage of where his feet are to streetview, the pavement angles back toward the bin area. The bins appear to usually sit against the wall and don't even stick out as far as the line of the tree.

Not sure what you mean. He is walking directly towards the bins when he is last seen on CCTV. They would be out of sight on the right, past the tree. http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/new_cctv/

This video probably gives the best comparison. http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/bury-st-edmunds/

Streetview can only show us looking from the opposite direction, as it doesn't cover the pedestrianised part that begins between Greggs and Greenwoods.

 

[Reallyodd]

Oh dear, the Sun has made an error that is not likely to go down very well. Caption under one of the pics: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/30972...st-news-landfill-site-search-missing-raf-man/

 

[guruagain]

Not sure what you mean. He is walking directly towards the bins when he is last seen on CCTV. They would be out of sight on the right, past the tree. http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/new_cctv/

This video probably gives the best comparison.
Streetview can only show us looking from the opposite direction, as it doesn't cover the pedestrianised part that begins between Greggs and Greenwoods.

I don't think he was looking at the bins, he may have been walking back towards them but I think he is looking at the Focus 12 gate area or a parked car.

 

[FlashyHydra]

This video probably gives the best comparison.
Streetview can only show us looking from the opposite direction, as it doesn't cover the pedestrianised part that begins between Greggs and Greenwoods.

All those bins are in plain sight, so...idk....if Corrie really climbed himself into one he must have been really desperate, like without car keys, wallet, money, phone. Could it be, that Corrie sees the backdoor of Snug bar to be open. It was closed hours ago, but still...it was a weekend. By the way, what are those stairs that look like going to the roof top?