Judges have a power to take away all the time a person has served towards their sentence if they make a hopeless application to appeal. It is a shame they didn't invoke this rule on this occasion meaning jg would have to start her sentence all over again!
GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2
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Legally Bland
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Legally Bland
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The inquest, which opens on Monday, will seek to establish the roles of various services who were involved with Ellie before she died, including social services at Sutton council, of independent social workers from Services for Children, schools and medical professionals.
Ellies father, Ben Butler, is serving a life sentence for murder after the six-year-old sustained catastrophic head injuries at the family home in Sutton, south London, in 2013, 11 months after she was returned to her parents following a custody battle.
Her mother, Jennie Gray, was jailed for child cruelty for leaving Ellie with an untreated shoulder fracture in the weeks leading up to her death. The role of the family court in deciding to return Ellie to her parents will not be considered in the inquest.
[...]
Ellie was a beautiful girl; always full of life. It was both a joy and a privilege to have known her, and I am enormously proud that she was my granddaughter, Neal Gray told the Guardian. Kind, clever and polite, Ellie had lots of friends, and was adored by her family; particularly by my late wife, Lin, with whom Ellie had a very special bond.
Ellie came to live with us late in our lives, but she was like a breath of fresh air. We both absolutely idolised her; she gave us a new lease of life, and we will be forever grateful to her for enriching our lives.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...r-says-he-wants-justice-to-prevail-at-inquest
BBM. So they're examining the roles of the people who did the right thing and not the role of the family court. SMH.
Ellies father, Ben Butler, is serving a life sentence for murder after the six-year-old sustained catastrophic head injuries at the family home in Sutton, south London, in 2013, 11 months after she was returned to her parents following a custody battle.
Her mother, Jennie Gray, was jailed for child cruelty for leaving Ellie with an untreated shoulder fracture in the weeks leading up to her death. The role of the family court in deciding to return Ellie to her parents will not be considered in the inquest.
[...]
Ellie was a beautiful girl; always full of life. It was both a joy and a privilege to have known her, and I am enormously proud that she was my granddaughter, Neal Gray told the Guardian. Kind, clever and polite, Ellie had lots of friends, and was adored by her family; particularly by my late wife, Lin, with whom Ellie had a very special bond.
Ellie came to live with us late in our lives, but she was like a breath of fresh air. We both absolutely idolised her; she gave us a new lease of life, and we will be forever grateful to her for enriching our lives.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...r-says-he-wants-justice-to-prevail-at-inquest
BBM. So they're examining the roles of the people who did the right thing and not the role of the family court. SMH.
Tortoise
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[FONT="]After technical hitches, inquest opens into death of 6 year old Ellie Butler. Her dad,Ben Butler was convicted of her murder. Her mum, Jenny Gray of child cruelty and perverting the course of justice. Both appearing via video link from their prisons.
https://twitter.com/AlisonHolt1
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https://twitter.com/AlisonHolt1
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Tortoise
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[FONT="]Inquest opens into the death of 6 year old Ellie Butler. Both her parents appear via video link from prison. Her dad, Ben Butler, was convicted of her murder. Mum, Jennie Gray, of perverting the course of justice and child cruelty.
https://twitter.com/leylahayes
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https://twitter.com/leylahayes
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Tortoise
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[FONT="]Inquest into death of 6 year old Ellie [/FONT]#Butler[FONT="], murdered by her father Ben Butler, told the family court decision to return her to her parents is not on trial.
https://twitter.com/AlisonHolt1
[/FONT][FONT="]Ellie’s grandfather, Neal Gray, is also at the inquest. Ellie lived with her grandparents until she was placed back into the care of her parents a year before she died.
https://twitter.com/leylahayes
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https://twitter.com/AlisonHolt1
[/FONT][FONT="]Ellie’s grandfather, Neal Gray, is also at the inquest. Ellie lived with her grandparents until she was placed back into the care of her parents a year before she died.
https://twitter.com/leylahayes
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Legally Bland
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'A full and fearless investigation will take place and that is precisely what is about to take place. The scope of the inquest will be between a specific time period - July 6, 2012, and October 28, 2013.
'Prior to July 2012 Ellie was safely in the care of her maternal grandparents when on July 6 Justice Hogg exonerated Mr Butler and Ms Gray in respect of all allegations of physical abuse to Ellie.
'Mrs Justice Hogg determined neither parent posed a physical risk to Ellie or her sibling. This inquest will not consider the judgment of the family court. Mrs Justice Hogg is not on trial and nor is her judgment.
'A Coroner's Court is not the appropriate forum to review or question any decision of the High Court, nor would it ever be appropriate as a lower court.'
[...]
After being handed back to the parents' care she began to miss school and suffered various injuries.
Mr Wiseman QC told the hearing her school, Beddington Infants and Avenue Primary School, as well as the police were told her injuries were caused by chasing the family dog and there was not enough evidence to launch safeguarding procedures.
The day before Ellie's death on October 28 2013, her grandparents noticed bruising to her face which was being hidden by face paint.
Mr Wiseman said: 'Ellie had facial injuries high, which had been in concealed with face paint.
'The grandparents weren't allowed to speak to the children alone and this was the last time the grandparents saw Ellie alive.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5489231/Inquest-open-death-murdered-Ellie-Butler.html
ETA: The court also heard Gray was still appealing against her convictions.
'Prior to July 2012 Ellie was safely in the care of her maternal grandparents when on July 6 Justice Hogg exonerated Mr Butler and Ms Gray in respect of all allegations of physical abuse to Ellie.
'Mrs Justice Hogg determined neither parent posed a physical risk to Ellie or her sibling. This inquest will not consider the judgment of the family court. Mrs Justice Hogg is not on trial and nor is her judgment.
'A Coroner's Court is not the appropriate forum to review or question any decision of the High Court, nor would it ever be appropriate as a lower court.'
[...]
After being handed back to the parents' care she began to miss school and suffered various injuries.
Mr Wiseman QC told the hearing her school, Beddington Infants and Avenue Primary School, as well as the police were told her injuries were caused by chasing the family dog and there was not enough evidence to launch safeguarding procedures.
The day before Ellie's death on October 28 2013, her grandparents noticed bruising to her face which was being hidden by face paint.
Mr Wiseman said: 'Ellie had facial injuries high, which had been in concealed with face paint.
'The grandparents weren't allowed to speak to the children alone and this was the last time the grandparents saw Ellie alive.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5489231/Inquest-open-death-murdered-Ellie-Butler.html
ETA: The court also heard Gray was still appealing against her convictions.
Legally Bland
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They didn't get legal aid.
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[FONT=&]Gray and Butler will appear by video link throughout proceedings at South London Coroner's Court in Croydon.
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[FONT=&]As the link went live connecting the pair from their respective prisons to the court, Butler was heard to say: "Your eyes look different."
Butler and Gray do not have representation after being refused legal aid.
https://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/news/croydon-news/ellie-butler-inquest-hearing-begins-1330157[/FONT]
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[FONT=&]Gray and Butler will appear by video link throughout proceedings at South London Coroner's Court in Croydon.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]As the link went live connecting the pair from their respective prisons to the court, Butler was heard to say: "Your eyes look different."
Butler and Gray do not have representation after being refused legal aid.
https://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/news/croydon-news/ellie-butler-inquest-hearing-begins-1330157[/FONT]
Legally Bland
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He was doing, but no idea whether it's still happening. From August 2017.
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Both parents said they were in the process of appealing against their convictions. They asked a series of questions of retired high court judge Linda Dobbs, who has taken over the inquest from senior south London coroner Selena Lynch.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ie-gray-inquest-hearing-videolink-from-prison
Legally Bland
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No surprises here:
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The father jailed for the brutal murder of his six-year-old daughter today stormed out of her inquest after hearing how much the girl's mother supported him.
[...]
Adam Wiseman QC read out some of the findings of Mrs Justice Mary Hogg's Family Court judgement in 2012 which ruled that Ellie should be returned to the care of her father.
He read out some of the evidence provided by Gray at the time of the Family Court hearing and her fear of the local authority taking her children away from her.
He said: 'Despite her loss (of Ellie) she loved the father and was appreciative of his support of her. They were friends as well as lovers.'
Mr Wiseman added: 'She had never believed he (Ben) had hurt Ellie in any way.'
Butler was further described as 'caring and loving' towards Ellie.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-Ellie-Butler-storms-out.html#ixzz59eLo94Jf
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
_________________
The father jailed for the brutal murder of his six-year-old daughter today stormed out of her inquest after hearing how much the girl's mother supported him.
[...]
Adam Wiseman QC read out some of the findings of Mrs Justice Mary Hogg's Family Court judgement in 2012 which ruled that Ellie should be returned to the care of her father.
He read out some of the evidence provided by Gray at the time of the Family Court hearing and her fear of the local authority taking her children away from her.
He said: 'Despite her loss (of Ellie) she loved the father and was appreciative of his support of her. They were friends as well as lovers.'
Mr Wiseman added: 'She had never believed he (Ben) had hurt Ellie in any way.'
Butler was further described as 'caring and loving' towards Ellie.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-Ellie-Butler-storms-out.html#ixzz59eLo94Jf
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Legally Bland
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Not really sure, but it was bound to happen. That or an outburst.
It could be as simple as not focusing on the evidence BB thinks is important.
I'd like to think he's acknowledged his guilt though. But I think that was evidence that JG gave at family court, rather than today.
Although it's hard to tell from that article.
It could be as simple as not focusing on the evidence BB thinks is important.
I'd like to think he's acknowledged his guilt though. But I think that was evidence that JG gave at family court, rather than today.
Although it's hard to tell from that article.
Legally Bland
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The headteacher of Beddington Infants School, Elizabeth Kearney, said she was concerned after being told that Ellie, a pupil, had expressed a wish to speak to the judge, as well as with the speed and manner of her transition to live with her parents.
She said she was concerned that Ellie would not be able to continue the loving relationships she had formed with her grandparents and that she may be moved to another school away from her friends.
She was also wary about the plan for the handover to take place at the school, which she was keen to keep neutral for Ellie.
Ms Kearney told South London Coroners Court in Croydon she wrote a letter to the judge months after her ruling outlining her fears, but did not send it after coming to the view it would not change things.
Asked about her concerns, she said: I was aware that this girl loved her current family, I was aware that there was a concern that she might not see that current family after the move because there was a difficult relationship.
I put myself in the childs position and I imagined losing my entire family and my dog and moving to a whole new family, and while she had by now met her mother and father a few times, thats not a relationship.
Ellie was happy at school and I wanted to keep that as a safe space, untainted.
The scope of the inquest will not consider the merits or wisdom of the ruling.
Ms Kearney said considering that Ellie, a five-year-old child, had asked to speak to the judge I felt I needed to do something about that and this led her, rightly or wrongly to write the letter.
Ben Butler, who was listening to proceedings via video link from prison, where he is currently serving life with a minimum term of 23 years for Ellies murder, interrupted her by shouting out: Who says she asked?
His numerous interruptions prompted retired high court judge Dame Linda Dobbs, who is sitting as coroner for the inquest, to urge him to bite his tongue.
Ellies mother, Jennie Gray, was given a 42-month term after being found guilty of child cruelty. She had admitted perverting the course of justice.
Ms Kearney said she had concerns raised with her about the language used in a meeting between an independent social work agency worker and Ellie, where a good judge and a bad judge were mentioned.
In another meeting, Ellie was put in an extremely difficult position by being told that whoever she chose not to live with would be upset, she said.
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/tra...xonerated-parents-inquest-told-11364258045247
She said she was concerned that Ellie would not be able to continue the loving relationships she had formed with her grandparents and that she may be moved to another school away from her friends.
She was also wary about the plan for the handover to take place at the school, which she was keen to keep neutral for Ellie.
Ms Kearney told South London Coroners Court in Croydon she wrote a letter to the judge months after her ruling outlining her fears, but did not send it after coming to the view it would not change things.
Asked about her concerns, she said: I was aware that this girl loved her current family, I was aware that there was a concern that she might not see that current family after the move because there was a difficult relationship.
I put myself in the childs position and I imagined losing my entire family and my dog and moving to a whole new family, and while she had by now met her mother and father a few times, thats not a relationship.
Ellie was happy at school and I wanted to keep that as a safe space, untainted.
The scope of the inquest will not consider the merits or wisdom of the ruling.
Ms Kearney said considering that Ellie, a five-year-old child, had asked to speak to the judge I felt I needed to do something about that and this led her, rightly or wrongly to write the letter.
Ben Butler, who was listening to proceedings via video link from prison, where he is currently serving life with a minimum term of 23 years for Ellies murder, interrupted her by shouting out: Who says she asked?
His numerous interruptions prompted retired high court judge Dame Linda Dobbs, who is sitting as coroner for the inquest, to urge him to bite his tongue.
Ellies mother, Jennie Gray, was given a 42-month term after being found guilty of child cruelty. She had admitted perverting the course of justice.
Ms Kearney said she had concerns raised with her about the language used in a meeting between an independent social work agency worker and Ellie, where a good judge and a bad judge were mentioned.
In another meeting, Ellie was put in an extremely difficult position by being told that whoever she chose not to live with would be upset, she said.
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/tra...xonerated-parents-inquest-told-11364258045247
michelle230
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Hi Tortoise and everyone - we meet again
He may have stormed out because of the inference in the way the words were spoken as if what was actually being said was that, "in spite of his physical and verbal bullying towards her and her child, and despite killing her daughter....(unbelievably) she is still supporting him...
Tortoise
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:wave: Michelle!
That seems very plausible.
This case upsets me so much because there is no remorse. I think they should make it a condition of parole that they face up to what they did. It's a good job I'm not at the inquest because I'd flip the off switch or pull out the cable every time they interject. What are the perpetrators of the crimes even doing being allowed in there? What can they offer the inquest?
That seems very plausible.
This case upsets me so much because there is no remorse. I think they should make it a condition of parole that they face up to what they did. It's a good job I'm not at the inquest because I'd flip the off switch or pull out the cable every time they interject. What are the perpetrators of the crimes even doing being allowed in there? What can they offer the inquest?
Legally Bland
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Richard Nash, executive head of safeguarding for childrens services at Sutton Council, asked for permission to address her grandfather Neal Gray at an inquest into the six-year-olds death.
He said: Mr Gray, as you know we have spoken on several occasions since Ellies death.
Today gives the first opportunity for the local authority to formally extend condolences to you on the death of your granddaughter and I wish to do that.
Mr Gray, who sat at the front of the hearing, replied: Thank you very much.
[...]
Mr Nash told South London Coroners Court in Croydon on Thursday that the ruling left no role for the local authority.
He said the court had ordered private social workers should be used and that the door of the familys home was, in effect, firmly closed to LBS (London Borough of Sutton).
He described the decision as disappointing and added: Taking into account all the other evidence the court had sufficient cause, in the view of LBS, to question the safety of Ellie if she was to be placed in their parents care.
The court considered the position that LBS put forward at this time but rejected it.
Counsel for the inquest Adam Wiseman QC questioned Mr Nash on why more was not done by the council to protect Ellie.
If the local authority had reasonable cause to suspect Ellie was at risk of significant harm your responsibility kicks in and Mrs Justice Hoggs ruling doesnt change that, he added.
Mr Nash replied that the threshold was set at a uniquely high level because of the court ruling.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...ondolences-council-inquest.html#ixzz59p5rOnru
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
He said: Mr Gray, as you know we have spoken on several occasions since Ellies death.
Today gives the first opportunity for the local authority to formally extend condolences to you on the death of your granddaughter and I wish to do that.
Mr Gray, who sat at the front of the hearing, replied: Thank you very much.
[...]
Mr Nash told South London Coroners Court in Croydon on Thursday that the ruling left no role for the local authority.
He said the court had ordered private social workers should be used and that the door of the familys home was, in effect, firmly closed to LBS (London Borough of Sutton).
He described the decision as disappointing and added: Taking into account all the other evidence the court had sufficient cause, in the view of LBS, to question the safety of Ellie if she was to be placed in their parents care.
The court considered the position that LBS put forward at this time but rejected it.
Counsel for the inquest Adam Wiseman QC questioned Mr Nash on why more was not done by the council to protect Ellie.
If the local authority had reasonable cause to suspect Ellie was at risk of significant harm your responsibility kicks in and Mrs Justice Hoggs ruling doesnt change that, he added.
Mr Nash replied that the threshold was set at a uniquely high level because of the court ruling.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...ondolences-council-inquest.html#ixzz59p5rOnru
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook