GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[suzyjackson]

That puzzles me too, but from a slightly different perspective.
Why would finding a bag at Helen's house create suspicion. She would have had more than one surely, so why didnt the police just think she had another bag with her.
Am sure IS would have removed anything such as credit cards or change purse from sight.

Surely in the past three months IS would have made very sure to dispose of Helen's phone, keys, bag contents etc in such a way that they could never be found. It doesn't make sense that anything like that would still be around to be found IMO

 

[Alyce]

Surely in the past three months IS would have made very sure to dispose of Helen's phone, keys, bag contents etc in such a way that they could never be found. It doesn't make sense that anything like that would still be around to be found IMO

It doesnt at all, but there was a report the other day, talking about a bag which had been found. I will try and find it back in the thread. It was not very clear cut but the general implication seemed to be that a bag had been found.

 

[Alyce]

just bringing this back up, here's the post re the handbag

Thanks for that link Neteditor.....

Re the sentence I've snipped below - does this mean they found Helen's handbag recently and did this give them the final amount of evidence to make an arrest ? Or am I reading it wrong.

and police previously believed she had her handbag with her.


Read more at http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/for...9503102-detail/story.html#bcLJleel5ompf39W.99


eta, all the outside work seems to be taking place in the front garden. To me that doesnt suggest burial of a body when there is a much larger, more secluded, back garden area.

 

[Satchie]

I wonder about that stealing money charge, whether IS used her ATM card. That would raise the issue, why didn't she have it with her as previously supposed.

There was mention of them draining the septic within days of her being reported missing, I was actually surprised at the time, I thought it seemed premature. Perhaps he had them do that to deliberately mislead them on the septic system.

 

[suzyjackson]

just bringing this back up, here's the post re the handbag

Hmm, that is an poorly worded article

"Her bank account had not been accessed, her mobile phone was switched off and police previously believed she had her handbag with her."

That could be read to imply that they now know that she didn't have her handbag with her or simply as a statement if fact about what the police thought in the past. Without further clarification my opinion is that it's sloppy reporting and doesn't mean that they have found the bag.

Interestingly the article is dated 3 days before Helen's body was found and says "A 55-year-old is still being held by officers on suspicion of murder, disposing of a body in a manner likely to obstruct the coroner and suspicion of theft" so at that stage the police seem to know that the body was in the septic tank which makes me wonder how they suddenly came to know that.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/for...9503102-detail/story.html#bcLJleel5ompf39W.99

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Hi all. Good to see this case is finally moving quickly. Are we all sitting comfortably and ready for an embarrassing septic tank story?

When I was growing up we had one, underneath the back garden. I never saw it, and didn't know that occasionally my dad would chuck in a dead bird or even road kill from the lane they lived on. Apparently it aided the bacterial breakdown process. Anyway... roll on to me being 17 and having my first boyfriend..... One day dad picked me up from my Saturday job, on the drive home he launched into a long story about how the cat had brought him a dead bird, he explained about the bacteria thing, and that he had lifted the tank lid, and gone to throw the bird in. Except that on lifting the lid all he saw was a load of condoms, floating on the surface. And that, my friends, was how my parents found out I was doing rudies!!

OMG. I still cringe to this day lol!

 

[neteditor]

Hmm, that is an poorly worded article

"Her bank account had not been accessed, her mobile phone was switched off and police previously believed she had her handbag with her."

That could be read to imply that they now know that she didn't have her handbag with her or simply as a statement if fact about what the police thought in the past. Without further clarification my opinion is that it's sloppy reporting and doesn't mean that they have found the bag.

Interestingly the article is dated 3 days before Helen's body was found and says "A 55-year-old is still being held by officers on suspicion of murder, disposing of a body in a manner likely to obstruct the coroner and suspicion of theft" so at that stage the police seem to know that the body was in the septic tank which makes me wonder how they suddenly came to know that.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/for...9503102-detail/story.html#bcLJleel5ompf39W.99

Yes if you go back to Monday / Tuesday on this thread there is a lot of discussion on the wording of this article. I don't think sloppy reporting so much as the police just not wanting to say outright what is what. I still think they discovered her bag somewhere and maybe that triggered the arrest (ie they finally caught him in an outright lie which enabled them to have just cause to arrest him and search the premises).

Popping back to Satchie's post... surely to goodness IS is not stupid enough to have used her bank card? Unless he was trying to make it look like she had used it. But surely he'd have the common sense to know there's CCTV on all ATM machines?

 

[neteditor]

Hi all. Good to see this case is finally moving quickly. Are we all sitting comfortably and ready for an embarrassing septic tank story?

When I was growing up we had one, underneath the back garden. I never saw it, and didn't know that occasionally my dad would chuck in a dead bird or even road kill from the lane they lived on. Apparently it aided the bacterial breakdown process. Anyway... roll on to me being 17 and having my first boyfriend..... One day dad picked me up from my Saturday job, on the drive home he launched into a long story about how the cat had brought him a dead bird, he explained about the bacteria thing, and that he had lifted the tank lid, and gone to throw the bird in. Except that on lifting the lid all he saw was a load of condoms, floating on the surface. And that, my friends, was how my parents found out I was doing rudies!!

OMG. I still cringe to this day lol!

LMAO that is a brilliant story!

 

[suzyjackson]

A question for those of you who have septic tanks - how would you get a body into one? Is there some kind of cover you can lift that would be large enough for a person to fit through?

And sorry to be graphic but would you just be able to drop a body in and close the cover and forget about it? Am I right to think the tank would be pretty close to the house so in this property and likley to be at the back? Even so you'd think you'd need to wait until after dark to dispose of a body so was Helen killed during the day and the body stored somewhere until night or was she actually killed during the night. My next thought is where were the sons during this time, I know it's a large house but I wouldn't think this could be going on while they were around and them not knwo anything about it.

I have so many questions, I wonder if we will find out the answers

RIP Helen

 

[BatFace]

Seeing Helen described as Stewart's "fiancée" in some articles is rankling with me. On whose say-so? A neighbour's? Given that she hadn't mentioned an engagement to her closest friends or parents, I rather think that IS had been pressuring her to formalise their relationship (especially if it meant he'd have more financial security), and that it was he that mentioned it to a neighbour, possibly even after he had killed her. His public statement that Helen had "promised" him thirty years appears in much the same vein, as he knew she wasn't around to contradict him: part of a ruse to divert attention from the signs she appeared to be showing of planning to end their relationship.

 

[suzyjackson]

Yes if you go back to Monday / Tuesday on this thread there is a lot of discussion on the wording of this article. I don't think sloppy reporting so much as the police just not wanting to say outright what is what. I still think they discovered her bag somewhere and maybe that triggered the arrest (ie they finally caught him in an outright lie which enabled them to have just cause to arrest him and search the premises).

Popping back to Satchie's post... surely to goodness IS is not stupid enough to have used her bank card? Unless he was trying to make it look like she had used it. But surely he'd have the common sense to know there's CCTV on all ATM machines?

Thank you, I will go back and look for that, I must have skipped a page somewhere whilst catching up

 

[neteditor]

On a complete side note, I've watched a video presumably lifted from HB's blog of her talking about her site etc. She managed to eradicate her Northumbrian accent completely!

 

[neteditor]

A question for those of you who have septic tanks - how would you get a body into one? Is there some kind of cover you can lift that would be large enough for a person to fit through?

And sorry to be graphic but would you just be able to drop a body in and close the cover and forget about it? Am I right to think the tank would be pretty close to the house so in this property and likley to be at the back? Even so you'd think you'd need to wait until after dark to dispose of a body so was Helen killed during the day and the body stored somewhere until night or was she actually killed during the night. My next thought is where were the sons during this time, I know it's a large house but I wouldn't think this could be going on while they were around and them not knwo anything about it.

I have so many questions, I wonder if we will find out the answers

RIP Helen

I'm fairly sure with new build houses your septic tank has to be a certain minimum distance from the house for hygiene purposes but I think in this case it was underneath the garage (isn't that what the neighbour said? I might have fuzzy recall with this horrible cold I am battling).

Yes there would basically be some sort of lid that you could lift and put things through. I'd be surprised if it's body-sized - though HB did look very neat and trim so perhaps big enough for a slim, slight lady. Worst case scenario he chopped a few bits off her first.

Remember the previous owner said it was perfect place to hide a body so I presume a body could be popped in quite easily from that.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

A question for those of you who have septic tanks - how would you get a body into one? Is there some kind of cover you can lift that would be large enough for a person to fit through?

And sorry to be graphic but would you just be able to drop a body in and close the cover and forget about it? Am I right to think the tank would be pretty close to the house so in this property and likley to be at the back? Even so you'd think you'd need to wait until after dark to dispose of a body so was Helen killed during the day and the body stored somewhere until night or was she actually killed during the night. My next thought is where were the sons during this time, I know it's a large house but I wouldn't think this could be going on while they were around and them not knwo anything about it.

I have so many questions, I wonder if we will find out the answers

RIP Helen

Yes, ours had a man hole sized cover, could easily have thrown a body in. I think it's possible he killed Helen during an argument and put her in there straight away, leaving little evidence. Boris was probably later when he realised he needed to use him as part of the story. He had some good red herrings, planted by Helen, about her "disappearing herself" and whatever the alleged note said. Maybe he planned it in advance but I doubt we'll ever know for sure. I think he will claim it was an accident, she fell and died during an altercation and he panicked, and I doubt the coroner will be able to determine a CoD after this long decomposing in the tank.

 

[Tortoise]

A question for those of you who have septic tanks - how would you get a body into one? Is there some kind of cover you can lift that would be large enough for a person to fit through?

And sorry to be graphic but would you just be able to drop a body in and close the cover and forget about it? Am I right to think the tank would be pretty close to the house so in this property and likley to be at the back? Even so you'd think you'd need to wait until after dark to dispose of a body so was Helen killed during the day and the body stored somewhere until night or was she actually killed during the night. My next thought is where were the sons during this time, I know it's a large house but I wouldn't think this could be going on while they were around and them not knwo anything about it.

I have so many questions, I wonder if we will find out the answers

RIP Helen

The DM article says the tank was in the garage. Presumably that is why they were using circular saws to cut the concrete floor, to widen their access to it.

We don't know if the son was at home - he is 24 I think. Other son is in Australia I've heard.

 

[neteditor]

Yes, ours had a man hole sized cover, could easily have thrown a body in. I think it's possible he killed Helen during an argument and put her in there straight away, leaving little evidence. Boris was probably later when he realised he needed to use him as part of the story. He had some good red herrings, planted by Helen, about her "disappearing herself" and whatever the alleged note said. Maybe he planned it in advance but I doubt we'll ever know for sure. I think he will claim it was an accident, she fell and died during an altercation and he panicked, and I doubt the coroner will be able to determine a CoD after this long decomposing in the tank.

I think it will depend on how deep and cold it is. But I agree I think soft tissue damage will be quite advanced for the timescale. Bones won't be damaged though so any injuries to those will be apparent. He may claim he panicked but honestly who in a genuine bona fide accident wouldn't just call it in? He HAS to be hiding something deliberate. MOO

 

[faybradshaw]

The DM article says the tank was in the garage. Presumably that is why they were using circular saws to cut the concrete floor, to widen their access to it.

We don't know if the son was at home - he is 24 I think. Other son is in Australia I've heard.

Cannot imagine how IS's sons are taking all this...

 

[Mamadutton]

With regard to the septic tank having to be built a certain distance from the house - it was. It was under the garage which was a separate structure built a little way away from the house by the look of the press pictures of the police activity on the site.

With sniffer dogs having been on site previously and not finding anything I think she must have been put into the tank immediately. They can apparently detect the scent of a dead body 2 hours after death but did not detect anything which leads me to think she went into the tank within the two hour window, and from then on the sewage smell masked the scent of the body when the dogs were brought in. With regards to the idea that the dogs that searched the property were not trained to detect dead bodies because they were called sniffer dogs by the police - I think it unlikely they would have called them anything else. They would hardly use the words "cadaver dogs" so early on when the line of enquiry was that she had disappeared of her own free will - plus this would be really upsetting for her family.

 

[neteditor]

With regard to the septic tank having to be built a certain distance from the house - it was. It was under the garage which was a separate structure built a little way away from the house by the look of the press pictures of the police activity on the site.

With sniffer dogs having been on site previously and not finding anything I think she must have been put into the tank immediately. They can apparently detect the scent of a dead body 2 hours after death but did not detect anything which leads me to think she went into the tank within the two hour window, and from then on the sewage smell masked the scent of the body when the dogs were brought in. With regards to the idea that the dogs that searched the property were not trained to detect dead bodies because they were called sniffer dogs by the police - I think it unlikely they would have called them anything else. They would hardly use the words "cadaver dogs" so early on when the line of enquiry was that she had disappeared of her own free will - plus this would be really upsetting for her family.

I wasn't sure from the drone photos which building was the garage tbh.

 

[Mamadutton]

There's a couple of shots that show it - it's a double garage, white garage doors on it. In one of the photos one of the doors is open and you can see a car inside. I can't find which link it's on now though!