GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[Alyce]

I'm wondering if there were any other witnesses in the garden who were there to see her late wife's demise?

From what I have read ( and there isnt much info ) the detail was that she was found collapsed in the garden, by IS. The way it sounded was that there was nobody else in the garden with her at the time, and that it was IS alone who discovered her. Of course he could just have been first into the garden, could have been other people following behind him, who knows.
But I do hope the police re look at all the details of that day.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The house would only pass on to him if they had joint tenancy, but as long as she was missing, he would have to pay all the costs.

There's a longstanding legal principle that no-one may profit from a crime, so if IS is convicted of her murder he will be prohibited from inheriting anything from her estate, and I believe that is regardless of any provisions in her will. Since IS could not inherit from her, neither could his son(s) through him.

I imagine (though IANAL) that unless she made provision in her will for any blood relatives or friends to benefit in some small way she will be treated as having died intestate and then the intestacy rules will come into play.

 

[Alyce]

There's a longstanding legal principle that no-one may profit from a crime, so if IS is convicted of her murder he will be prohibited from inheriting anything from her estate, and I believe that is regardless of any provisions in her will. Since IS could not inherit from her, neither could his son(s) through him.

I imagine (though IANAL) that unless she made provision in her will for any blood relatives or friends to benefit in some small way she will be treated as having died intestate and then the instestacy rules will come into play.

There is a section in Helen's book where she talks about what she had to go through when JS , her husband, died so suddenly. She didnt go into great detail, other than to say it was hugely traumatic, dealing with the personal and business side of things and sorting out the finances. The point she did make, emphatically, was to say that everybody should make a Will and ensure that they made their wishes perfectly clear, so that family and friends would know exactly what the deceased person wanted to happen to their money, possessions etc.
From this I am certain that Helen will have left a very clear Will. I doubt she will have left everything to IS and his family. I am fairly sure there will be a legacy to her own genuine family as well.
And, as you rightly say, even if she has left some of her estate to him, this part of her Will can thankfully be overturned when he is found guilty of her murder.
Of course, if he were found not guilty ( I can see the pink elephant flying by as I type this ) that would be a whole different situation, but not one I believe will happen.

 

[faybradshaw]

There is a section in Helen's book where she talks about what she had to go through when JS , her husband, died so suddenly. She didnt go into great detail, other than to say it was hugely traumatic, dealing with the personal and business side of things and sorting out the finances. The point she did make, emphatically, was to say that everybody should make a Will and ensure that they made their wishes perfectly clear, so that family and friends would know exactly what the deceased person wanted to happen to their money, possessions etc.
From this I am certain that Helen will have left a very clear Will. I doubt she will have left everything to IS and his family. I am fairly sure there will be a legacy to her own genuine family as well.
And, as you rightly say, even if she has left some of her estate to him, this part of her Will can thankfully be overturned when he is found guilty of her murder.
Of course, if he were found not guilty ( I can see the pink elephant flying by as I type this ) that would be a whole different situation, but not one I believe will happen.

IS won't profit from the crime in terms of Helen's assets, but what happens to the money he invested in the house (have a feeling Helen's share was far more) when he gets convicted and sentenced - does it remain his or go to his family?

 

[Satchie]

There is a section in Helen's book where she talks about what she had to go through when JS , her husband, died so suddenly. She didnt go into great detail, other than to say it was hugely traumatic, dealing with the personal and business side of things and sorting out the finances. The point she did make, emphatically, was to say that everybody should make a Will and ensure that they made their wishes perfectly clear, so that family and friends would know exactly what the deceased person wanted to happen to their money, possessions etc.
From this I am certain that Helen will have left a very clear Will. I doubt she will have left everything to IS and his family. I am fairly sure there will be a legacy to her own genuine family as well.
And, as you rightly say, even if she has left some of her estate to him, this part of her Will can thankfully be overturned when he is found guilty of her murder.
Of course, if he were found not guilty ( I can see the pink elephant flying by as I type this ) that would be a whole different situation, but not one I believe will happen.

I was thinking about her will, or the possibility of her changing the will, as a possible motive.

 

[BatFace]

Those poor, poor young men- what they must be going through knowing what their father has done. And not only have they lost their mother a few short years ago, now they too must be wondering whether it was at his hands. Awful. While I don't think it is especially beneficial for young adults to remain in the family home once they are of age, this is a very traumatic way for them to lose everything that has anchored them.

 

[faybradshaw]

Those poor, poor young men- what they must be going through knowing what their father has done. And not only have they lost their mother a few short years ago, now they too must be wondering whether it was at his hands. Awful. While I don't think it is especially beneficial for young adults to remain in the family home once they are of age, this is a very traumatic way for them to lose everything that has anchored them.

Yes, whether their mother's death, too, was at his hands has got to have entered their minds.

 

[ZaZara]

Helen and Boris, on ham and bereavement:

[video]https://youtu.be/9GPdcxTs0oE[/video]






:rose:

 

[Portabella]

I am wondering where the crime scene is, are they processing the house (forensics). I am praying the crime scene is not the actual septic tank. I don't think I want to know...IMHO

 

[Alyce]

I am wondering where the crime scene is, are they processing the house (forensics). I am praying the crime scene is not the actual septic tank. I don't think I want to know...IMHO

That really does not bear thinking about. I sincerely hope it was only the place he put the bodies, nothing more.

Also, remembering ( from the book again ) that Helen had, if not exactly a fear, then certainly a concern and dislike of water, following her husband's tragic death. So for her to end up in a watery place - horrible. And he of course would have known this, which makes my dislike of him even stronger.

 

[mrazda71]

Those poor, poor young men- what they must be going through knowing what their father has done. And not only have they lost their mother a few short years ago, now they too must be wondering whether it was at his hands. Awful. While I don't think it is especially beneficial for young adults to remain in the family home once they are of age, this is a very traumatic way for them to lose everything that has anchored them.

A lot of people "of age" have no choice financially but to live at home these days though personally I see no disadvantages if all are happy with the situation... I dont know much about Ians sons but I do hope they have LOTS of support.

 

[Alyce]

IS won't profit from the crime in terms of Helen's assets, but what happens to the money he invested in the house (have a feeling Helen's share was far more) when he gets convicted and sentenced - does it remain his or go to his family?

yes, it will remain his and if the house is then sold, he would also be entitled to his share of any profit made.

 

[BatFace]

Yes, every case is different, but I'd have thought they'd be among the fortunate ones to have financial support to move towards living independently. Regardless of that, I do feel very sorry for them though.

I won't derail the thread on this issue though- I realise it's not particularly relevant, my apologies.

 

[Remi_Aventura]

Oh. My. God. I go away for a couple weeks...and just this morning catching up. So very sorry, yet not at all surprised, to see that IS has been charged and remains for Helen and Boris found.

From the beginning...it seemed to me that LE was withholding details on purpose. Although LE apparently didn't know about the "other" and real septic apparatus, there must have been some red flags early on for LE to play it close to the vest while they waited for IS to trip up in a more meaningful way (and still not quite clear what he did to trip up, even knowing about money withdrawal---could have been the 'missing purse' though). Thank goodness for the neighbor's comments about the septic tank. As I read back through ALL of the posts, it's pretty clear WS members were asking all the right questions. I recall that what stopped me in my tracks was the "tragic circumstances" (unnamed in my searches) about IS wife Diane. I could not find an obituary. So yes, one hopes that inquiry will be re-opened. Also, the supposed note left by Helen was a big area of concern. IS not having a joint statement with the brother bothered me, too. But mostly? There was really nothing about Helen to suggest she'd disappear without contacting her mum---nothing. Helen was very intelligent, and I will not be surprised if we discover she had plans to leave him, plans temporarily halted by his 'medical scare' and I believe she was afraid of him...she learned from her first marriage the signs of a domineering man. What she may have had no experience with, however, was the limitless evil of a psychopathic mind. I am so very sorry for her family. RIP Helen and Boris....(I CANNOT believe he killed the dog, too, but a mind like that would not want to leave a witness...even a canine one.)

This is just tragic, and I don't know as I've fully grasped it all. I know evil exists. But do any of us really know what it looks like? Evil is a chameleon, always changing outer colors; but evil is the devil incarnate, always remaining evil.

 

[ZaZara]

But mostly? There was really nothing about Helen to suggest she'd disappear without contacting her mum---nothing. Helen was very intelligent, and I will not be surprised if we discover she had plans to leave him, plans temporarily halted by his 'medical scare' and I believe she was afraid of him...she learned from her first marriage the signs of a domineering man. What she may have had no experience with, however, was the limitless evil of a psychopathic mind. I am so very sorry for her family. RIP Helen and Boris....(I CANNOT believe he killed the dog, too, but a mind like that would not want to leave a witness...even a canine one.)

This is just tragic, and I don't know as I've fully grasped it all. I know evil exists. But do any of us really know what it looks like? Evil is a chameleon, always changing outer colors; but evil is the devil incarnate, always remaining evil.

RSBM & BBM

Very well said! Evil has many faces and it may even appear as a grieving widower in a bereavement course. I think she met him far too soon.

I still would like to believe that it happened in the spur of the moment, and that it was all a terrible mistake, and sooo very sorry, but I fear that this will not be the case. By all appearances, in every scenario, all seems so very well organized.
I have been writing a lot about septic tanks here and I realized that I never once thought of that tank of mine as a hiding place for a body - not that I needed one, but still, it would not have occurred to me. (Can't stop thinking about it now.)

Next there are those four days to clean everything up and make the house look as normal as usual. Then he drives to the 'cottage' (he did drive, didn't he?) and that would give him ample opportunity to get rid of any material that he did not want traced back to him.

 

[MillyM]

From what I have read ( and there isnt much info ) the detail was that she was found collapsed in the garden, by IS. The way it sounded was that there was nobody else in the garden with her at the time, and that it was IS alone who discovered her.

Red flag alert!

 

[michelle230]

I wonder about the note that Helen apparently left - I think the details have been kept sketchy on purpose. Maybe an email sent from her account to his? But it would mean nothing if he had her log in/password details which it appears he did as of course he could have sent it to herself **. Whatever the note was or wasn`t, handwritten or typed, I get the feeling the police did not take it at face value.
I agree with Tortoise - a person doesn`t just become a cold, calculated "planner" overnight. There must be history. A previous sudden, unexpected death? Apparently him being the only witness? I wonder if the police had gone into the background of this death before even arresting him. They are bound to have enquired about the circumstances of the death of his wife after Helen had been missing for a while.
Yes - as a poster remarked - lots of red herrings. *If* Helen did write a note on a previous occasion about needing space, he`d have to have been formulating a plan already to have kept that note for use later on. Saving it. The awareness of the septic tank and it`s "convenient" design filed away like another jigsaw piece of the plan. Thinking he was so clever to kill Boris to add much credibility to the supposed scenario of her going off on her own for "time out". He must have been thrilled and delighted when reports came (incorrectly of course) of Helen being spotted out walking with her green jacket. And his ex in laws saying what a good man he was!
I hope he was beginning to feel that he was home and dry. I hope he was relaxed and confident that all was well and he could play the grieving widower again. I hope he`s feeling total fear and panic, alone in his cell. I am so angry, as we all are.
Michelle
** sorry - mean "himself"

 

[michelle230]

RSBM & BBM

Very well said! Evil has many faces and it may even appear as a grieving widower in a bereavement course. I think she met him far too soon.

I still would like to believe that it happened in the spur of the moment, and that it was all a terrible mistake, and sooo very sorry, but I fear that this will not be the case. By all appearances, in every scenario, all seems so very well organized.
I have been writing a lot about septic tanks here and I realized that I never once thought of that tank of mine as a hiding place for a body - not that I needed one, but still, it would not have occurred to me. (Can't stop thinking about it now.)

Next there are those four days to clean everything up and make the house look as normal as usual. Then he drives to the 'cottage' (he did drive, didn't he?) and that would give him ample opportunity to get rid of any material that he did not want traced back to him.

I`m a bit worried that in the absence of anyone on Helen`s "side" in the house e.g. children which of course she didn`t have, and/or close, local friends and neighbours, as she had not long moved, added to the facts that he had days to cleanse evidence and of course the decomposition of the body - he will have ample scope to invent whatever stories help his case. I hope the police have a lot of evidence that we are not aware of to build a strong case. But unfortunately he has a lot of factors on his side..

 

[Alyce]

I wonder about the note that Helen apparently left - I think the details have been kept sketchy on purpose. Maybe an email sent from her account to his? But it would mean nothing if he had her log in/password details which it appears he did as of course he could have sent it to herself **. Whatever the note was or wasn`t, handwritten or typed, I get the feeling the police did not take it at face value.
I agree with Tortoise - a person doesn`t just become a cold, calculated "planner" overnight. There must be history. A previous sudden, unexpected death? Apparently him being the only witness? I wonder if the police had gone into the background of this death before even arresting him. They are bound to have enquired about the circumstances of the death of his wife after Helen had been missing for a while.
Yes - as a poster remarked - lots of red herrings. *If* Helen did write a note on a previous occasion about needing space, he`d have to have been formulating a plan already to have kept that note for use later on. Saving it. The awareness of the septic tank and it`s "convenient" design filed away like another jigsaw piece of the plan. Thinking he was so clever to kill Boris to add much credibility to the supposed scenario of her going off on her own for "time out". He must have been thrilled and delighted when reports came (incorrectly of course) of Helen being spotted out walking with her green jacket. And his ex in laws saying what a good man he was!
I hope he was beginning to feel that he was home and dry. I hope he was relaxed and confident that all was well and he could play the grieving widower again. I hope he`s feeling total fear and panic, alone in his cell. I am so angry, as we all are.
Michelle
** sorry - mean "himself"

BBM I would still really like to know who informed the police that Helen's green jacket had been found at her house.
I remember that this info did not appear in the papers for several weeks after Helen went missing - and that was also several weeks after the police had finished their preliminary search of the property.
It could be that the jacket was found by the police during that preliminary search, but if so, it seems strange that they allowed the story re the sighting in Baldock/Weston to continue for several weeks longer before putting out the info re the jacket having been found.

If it was not the police, then who found the jacket ?

 

[Satchie]

I still would like to believe that it happened in the spur of the moment, and that it was all a terrible mistake, and sooo very sorry, but I fear that this will not be the case. By all appearances, in every scenario, all seems so very well organized.

I agree - the motive is the puzzling aspect for me in this case, I was looking at Helen's blog and it seems hard to believe she had been living for 3 years with someone who either was so controlling he'd commit the ultimate act of control, or someone who was such a psychopath that he was just acting a part and coldly using her. She seems to have had so much self awareness and insight into other's personalities and issues, it's very troubling that this could happen to her.

In North America, people are charged with either 1st, 2nd degree murder, which immediately gives insight into the motive that the prosecution will argue, but I gather that's not the case in the UK?