GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[cottonweaver]

Thanks to Hunkerdown's recommendation, and Cottonweaver posting a link in #14 of this thread, I have just watched the first episode of 'The Widower'. Absolutely spooky similarities in places - the sleeping pills, the self-deception, weeping and victim-blaming, the money getting shifted into the joint account...
I should not be doing this. I suspect Neteditor's book is getting on a lot better than mine.

Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound - this might interest you Moll.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2602414

It's the NZealander wife 2 interviewed after the programme went out. ( 25 mins long)

( As you've seen, her family's persistence helped force Grampian police to re- open the case into Webster's murder of wife 1. Claire. )

Webster was diagnosed as a sociopath. As you''ll have seen in "the widower", sometimes the drugging was just because he could ( habitual way to shut up his partner) , other times it was with clear financial intent.

I appreciate these two perps are different people and so can't be formally compared....indeed some of Webster's exes explained that in his 30s & 40s he was a good looking guy, with a real way with women, the patter and the private school education, likened by one as "a young Sean Connery".......definitely not applicable to GGHW Ian Stewart.

 

[MillyM]

Helen Bailey murder trial: A round up of four weeks of evidence

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-round-12556241

 

[Alyce]

I'm no medic/nurse, but I am quite confused as to why he needed to have this dressing changed at all, let alone so often.

I've had quite a few surgeries, including my two non-keyhole hernia repairs and an appendectomy, and I didn't need to see a professional for a dressing change once. Neither did I have any stitches to be sore or needing removed etc. Internal stitches dissolve away after a time, and the skin wound was glued. There was no bleeding to speak of.

Is anyone able to expand on why IS's surgery and wound would require so much aftercare?

I've a friend who in the last two years had a major bowel problem which needed a big surgery and the best part of a year with a stoma / colostomy, then the reverse surgery to connect his healed bowel and close the stoma etc. Even he didn't need as many follow-ups / dressing changes as IS seems to have done.

Starting to think IS is a hypochondriac or possibly even a touch of Munchausens (with the drugging of Helen a kind of "by proxy" manifestation of Munchausens?)

BIB most definately. Plus, for his own purposes ( murder ) it helped to reinforce how serious this Op had been and how incapable he was of even dealing with the dressings, medical intervention required.

 

[cottonweaver]

Exactly, one would have thought...


For all the closeness that purports to exist between them, the father and sons come over as having a somewhat disengaged relationship. Or is there a reason for stressing the calling?

just re. what day where they off to sheffield for snooker?( Alyce's O.Post)

When I looked previously I wondered if it was the sunday, 1st may? ( yes could be saturday 30th too)
http://www.worldsnooker.com/tournaments/betfred-world-championship-2016/

PS I always found it odd that JS/IS had to mention HB in this invite.

“During the week of April 11, dad rang me while I was at work to say himself and Helen had arranged tickets for us to go to the snooker championships. My birthday was a few weeks after.

(if that's an accurate quote from JS, also seems strange phrasing , even in a formal court context. "himself and helen"? What's wrong with "Dad & Helen had"? or "they had")

I know I'm biased, yes it could be simply that HB& IS really had arranged this as a JS b'day gift....................................
before she was drugged & suffocated. :furious:

anyway it reminds me of the arsenal season tickets and the evidence showing that in reality HB hadn't been to Arsenal lately - usually Dad and son.
By quoting "himself and Helen" does that assist? ( seeing as HB actually paid for them?)

During the trial the jury have been told Helen was a keen Arsenal supporter and was a season ticket holder.

A statement by Detective Constable Helen Richmond was read to the court today in which she told how, as part of the investigation into the writer's disappearance, she contacted Arsenal football club.She said she was then told that the two season tickets held in Helen's name had been renewed and paid for over the telephone on May 16 last year using funds from Helen Bailey's sole Barclays Bank account. The officer said she was informed by the club that all the season ticket holders had been sent emails on May 12 last year informing them they could renew their season tickets.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killed-author-helen-baileys-arsenal-9706169

I don't know what kind of reln he had with his sons Milly. At the very least ...."co-dependant" or manipulated?

in context, good to remember that same period he renews the arsenal tickets, he's saying to the pscy nurse that he had been considering topping himself at Broadstairs.( he was in Broadstairs. again in May.)

"May 13community psychiatric nurse Sarah Touhey :“I came back to work on May 13.
“A colleague of mine rang Stewart again on May 10 as I was concerned.
“Stewart said he was still in Broadstairs but he was fine.”..................He called me on that day, he said he was now back in Hertfordshire, he said he came very close to killing himself while he was there ( in Bs) but his father had been very supportive and he was now back tidying up personal affairs - he said he was feeling better in himself."

 

[Moll]

Thank you, Cottonweaver (#741), I'll definitely have to listen to that, but it'll have to wait till I've watched the rest of 'The Widower'! I've only watched the first episode so far.

There is the idea - was it yours or Hunkerdown's? - that IS could even have been inspired by this to some extent, but I guess we'll never know.

 

[cottonweaver]

as we won't get any news til Monday , going to chuck this in , vis a vis co-dependant relationships in families.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysfunctional_family

.....just to see what people think about something controversial
.
I must say, IMO there's no such thing as a "perfect parent " and I genuinely do believe in " good enough parenting" - my family isn't perfect by any means but my starting point for the IS family set-up is:
- what happens when you have a parent who is disordered but undiagnosed and where children are co-dependent?
- combine that with the trauma of a mother's inexplicable death ( initially) and Dad getting serious with a new partner two years later.

 

[Alyce]

Re the snooker.
The championship ran April 16 to May 2

April 16 week end IS is in Broadstairs
April 23 week end - big police search at the house, April 22, so unlikely to have gone after that
Most likely dates therefore are April 30/May 1 ( BH week end)


so why phone J, at work, almost 3 weeks prior to tell him about these tickets ?

 

[Alyce]

For reference

Meal at Fox & Duck

closed Mondays
So meal was April 5, 6,7 ( Tues, Wed , Thurs )
Helen * asleep* on Friday

definately driving required, so had to be Helen, as IS first drive is April 9, with Jamie

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/S...d6c67b8ef29a414!2m2!1d-0.0340279!2d52.0480179

 

[Tortoise]

Interesting to see too how he plays up with different people. I think the prosecution were interested in highlighting this aspect.

With one nurse he is emotional and chatty. With the other he is distant and unemotional. With some police he is rude and temperamental, with others he is helpful. With some mental health workers he is suicidal, and with another he showed no anxiety, depression or distress. He went from wanting to jump from the cliffs when police wanted to question him, to jovial. He changed his body language around police.

It's all showing what an actor he is.

 

[cottonweaver]

Thank you, Cottonweaver (#741), I'll definitely have to listen to that, but it'll have to wait till I've watched the rest of 'The Widower'! I've only watched the first episode so far.

There is the idea - was it yours or Hunkerdown's? - that IS could even have been inspired by this to some extent, but I guess we'll never know.

You're on episode 1. It gets even more interesting.

As you're watching it, just bear in mind that the real guy ( not the actor) was apparently much more attractive/urbane. Prosecuting counsel also said that Webster targeted wealthy "care-givers" eg, nurses/HCare professionals who were so used to ministering to others' needs and had never received much loving care from a bloke. So when you see him say stuff like "Drink up - must keep your fluids up..." you will see it in another light. Urgh.

I think it was hunkerdown's idea but I'DK if IS was directly "inspired", as such.
(Webster's arrested about 2009 and convicted 2011 , says wikipedia, just now.)
Hunkerdown's theory is certainly a possibility.

BTW I was hoping that the poster -who was telling us about poisoner profiling last month- would come back and give us some highlights from her research. I'm afraid I can't remember the poster's name.

 

[Tortoise]

If anyone's interested I've got a timeline here. It doesn't include everything like all the phone contact with friends and others, but it's got the main events after reporting Helen missing.


Fri 15[SUP]th[/SUP] April
3:37pm IS phoned 101 to report Helen missing.
7pm to 10pm Police went to house and conducted a search of house and garden. On her macbook Helen’s email page was open but her browser history was blank. Her iPad was locked and IS couldn’t find the password. Jeep in driveway. Declined publicity of Helen’s disappearance, said she would be angry. Said she was likely to be in a hotel that takes dogs. Said he’d been unconcerned until he spoke to John Bailey on 13th. Shocked that police found Helen’s passport. Followed police everywhere, watched their every move, questioned everything they were doing.
Midnight IS emailed Helen stating his undying love for her.

Sat 16[SUP]th[/SUP] April
IS drove to Broadstairs. Helen's phone connected with the router. Said clothes may be missing. Later agreed with John B that police could go public. Posted a message on Facebook saying Helen missing.

Mon 18[SUP]th[/SUP] April
IS told nurse @9:45am Helen had gone missing on Friday.
IS drove to Leatherhead to see Tony Hurley. Spoke to Karen Cotter, distressed.
Christopher Priest went round for a couple of hours.
IS phoned Tony Hurley that evening.

Tues 19[SUP]th[/SUP] April
9:30am 14 police officers arrived at house and search of house and garden commenced at 10:30am (no dogs).
IS asked if their presence was necessary because the house had already been searched. Dismissive & throwing his hands up in the air. Following police around. Wider Royston area also searched. Jeep had been moved by this date into garage. Vehicles were not moved out of the garage during this search. At 3:10pm they became aware of the cesspit in the garden. It was full. IS told officers he was not aware of the tank. Fresh grass was trapped under the manhole cover, showing it had been recently lifted. Booked to have it drained on 22[SUP]nd[/SUP].

Weds 20[SUP]th[/SUP] April
IS posted on FB complaining about police intrusion, saying no news. He called Karen Cotter again wanting to know if Helen could access her money and asking if police had contacted her because he’d given them her number. IS’ friend Pamela Charles called him and he ended the call abruptly.
Police looked at IS’ phone.
9:30pm night - police searched the wooded area opposite the house.

Thurs 21[SUP]st[/SUP] April
IS very emotional @ nurse appointment. IS saw his GP for beta-blockers.
Police visited Broadstairs cottage and examined wireless router.
Police also went back to Royston house. IS called Christopher Priest and asked him to be there with him. Police asked IS to do a recorded interview. He would not agree. Said he couldn’t be bothered, snapped at them & kept cutting them short. Finally agreed to do one the next day.

Fri 22[SUP]nd[/SUP] April
3:31pm Margaret Holson received a missed Facetime call from Helen’s email account.
Police returned at 10:00am to drain the cesspit in the garden.
At 1pm a search of the house and garden was conducted with victim recovery dog. IS was not happy about it, and called out an officer from Major Crime Unit to the house to express his feelings. Police who had arrived to do his recorded interview were told by IS again he wouldn’t be able to be interviewed, he didn’t know police were going to be searching there again today, upset about dog being there, restless, pacing, looking out at back garden, worried about ornaments being broken. Dog indicated in several areas inside the house.
Police returned at 4:15pm, after the search team had left. He was interviewed for 2 hours starting at 4:40pm, not happy about recording equipment. Said Helen had loaded his car with large duvet. He didn’t remember driving anywhere, didn’t remember being at the doctors or the dump, couldn’t remember sequence of things, couldn’t remember what clothes he’d been wearing. Said the last time he remembered seeing Helen for definite was when she asked him to change his doctor’s appointment to the afternoon. Half way through interview he asked “Are we done then? I’m hungry.” At the end of the interview when the camera & machines were off IS asked if he was still the main suspect. Police asked him if he wanted to do a media appeal and he said no because the media would twist his words. He then eased up & started to crack jokes. He told police he felt he should be informed if they intended to search his house.

Sat 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] April
IS texted the police to say ‘any news?’ He asked to be re-shown a CCTV image of a woman in Morrisons but the police officer didn’t know anything about it. He said he’d found an old iPhone 5 of Helen’s, that a cream was missing and Boris’ yellow collar. Police returned to the house to see IS. He was there with Jamie. Keys to Broadstairs were returned to him. They asked general questions about things that could be missing for example Boris’ toys and leads. Police found him to be rude and dismissive.

Tues 26[SUP]th[/SUP] April
Police major crime unit took over the investigation.

Thurs 28[SUP]th[/SUP] April
Police returned to the house to collect anything of Helen’s with her DNA on it.

Sat 30[SUP]th[/SUP] April / Sun 1[SUP]st[/SUP] May
IS & Jamie in Sheffield for snooker.

Mon 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] May (bank holiday)
Police again had contact with IS

Weds 4[SUP]th[/SUP] May
Police 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] recorded interview. IS said he couldn’t remember when he’d last seen Helen’s phone – an iPhone 6, but not since she went missing. He said no one else would use Helen’s Facebook acct. He’s asked if her phone would connect to his BMW – says he thinks so. Says he asked Helen to marry him 3 ½ years ago (which commutes to Nov 2012) – about a year after her husband died (which commutes to Feb 2012). She didn’t want to tell anyone. He says they both still have ashes to deal with. Said Helen hadn’t been to see Arsenal play for 2 years – he would go with one of his sons.

Fri 6[SUP]th[/SUP] May
Police had contact with IS again. Community psychiatric nurse Sarah Tooley saw IS for 1[SUP]st[/SUP] time at 1pm, at her place of work. He had referred himself. He told her Helen had been missing for 10 days (actually 26 days, was this to prove his memory problems?) He told her about losing his wife too, 6 years ago and said he wasn’t coping. He said he couldn’t remember anything due to stress. He asked if self-harming would improve his memory of events. Said he was suicidal and he was stressed by police questioning him. Also seen by psychiatrist that day.

Sat 7[SUP]th[/SUP] May to Tues 10[SUP]th[/SUP] May
IS went to Broadstairs.

Mon 9[SUP]th[/SUP] May
Sarah Tooley spoke to IS by phone. He said he was in Broadstairs and had felt like jumping off a cliff but his father had supported him and he no longer felt like that.

Tues 10[SUP]th[/SUP] May
IS spoke to a colleague of Sarah Tooley’s by phone and said he was fine.

Weds 11[SUP]th[/SUP] May
John Bailey attended a press conference to make an appeal
IS released a written appeal

Thurs 12[SUP]th[/SUP] May
Arsenal emailed Helen saying her season tickets were due to expire. IS renewed them by phone on 16[SUP]th[/SUP] May 10:50am, @ £1577 each, using joint bank account but Helen’s card details.

Fri 13[SUP]th[/SUP] May
IS rang Sarah Tooley and said he was back in Royston and feeling better. He told her he had declined a police interview because he thought it would be too stressful. (I think he must be talking about the live appeal). He asked if he could give her details to police. Said he was having thoughts of self-harm.

Sun 15[SUP]th[/SUP] May
Helen’s online account last accessed. Not sure if this was her bank account or email account. (disclosed during ‘Arsenal tickets’ evidence, trial date 27[SUP]th[/SUP] Jan)

Weds 18[SUP]th[/SUP] May
9:30am IS refused to allow police search team to return to house. IS phoned his GP about not being able to sleep – GP increased medication.
IS told police that he had sought psychiatric help for suicidal thoughts. He said he had not tried to access Helen’s bank account, when told about the two log in attempts on 11[SUP]th[/SUP] April. Police wanted to look in the house and garage for electronic devices. Scenes of crime photographers turned up at the door. He said he was fed up with it and became very anxious. Said if Helen came back he wouldn’t want to be with her any more. Officers asked for the key to the garage but he wasn’t happy. He wouldn’t consent to a search of the garage but consented to photographs of it. His parents arrived. After being reassured that police hadn’t lifted the floorboards in Broadstairs he became calmer. But he declined to give them his phone – saying he needed it for his mental support team and if Helen tried to contact him.

Fri 20[SUP]th[/SUP] May
IS phoned and asked police if there was any news. He was calm but said he was angry with Helen for not letting anyone know she was alright.

Sun 22[SUP]nd[/SUP] May
Dog walk on Royston Heath to raise awareness.

Thurs 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] June
IS asked Helen’s solicitor for a copy of the power of attorney. He asked how he could invoke it.

Fri 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] June
IS phoned Sarah Tooley and asked if she thought he should go to Palma on pre-booked holiday planned for June 12th. She said she could not make that decision for him. He sounded more jovial.

Tues 7[SUP]th[/SUP] June
Police returned to Broadstairs and discovered wireless router missing from cottage.

Fri 10[SUP]th[/SUP] June
IS phoned Helen’s friend Jay (who had helped organise the dog walk) and said he was going to carry on with the holiday because he couldn’t get a refund and his mental health adviser had said he needed the break. He texted her to say not to make it public.

Sun 12[SUP]th[/SUP] June
IS flew to Palma.

Weds 15[SUP]th[/SUP] June
IS emailed police and told them he needed his phone. (I think this date has been reported incorrectly and should be Sat 25[SUP]th[/SUP] because he was in Palma on 15[SUP]th[/SUP])

Thurs 16[SUP]th[/SUP] June
IS emailed Helen’s friend Jay and said the holiday might not have been a good idea.

Fri 17[SUP]th[/SUP] June
IS told police by email he lost his phone while he was carrying two phones, in Cambridge. He didn’t even know the sim number and it was switched off when he lost it. (Again I think this should be Mon 27[SUP]th[/SUP] because that’s when he was declared a suspect and he was in Palma on 17th)

Sat 25[SUP]th[/SUP] June
6[SUP]th[/SUP] anniversary of the death of his wife, IS posted a message on FB saying he failed with CPR.

Mon 27[SUP]th[/SUP] June
IS was declared a suspect.

July - IS tried to progress the sale of the flat by going to see solicitor. He also said he would register the POA. He wasn’t happy.

Mon 4[SUP]th[/SUP] July
IS’ last contact with Sarah Tooley. Said he’d been on holiday and felt ok and was happy to be discharged.

Mon 11[SUP]th[/SUP] July
7:02am IS arrested at his home on suspicion of murder, taken to police station and interviewed. He denied murder/body disposal/stealing money, and then refused to answer further questions. House search began. Cars still in the garage as they were on 19[SUP]th[/SUP] April. Cars were moved to assist the cadaver dog handlers. Dogs did not react over cesspit hatch but did react in the room above. The dogs searched all the vehicles, including the BMW.

Tues 12[SUP]th[/SUP] July
IS released on bail to a hotel. Police lifted the manhole cover and replaced it. Re-tasked to drain the pit.

Fri 15[SUP]th[/SUP] July
Helen’s body discovered (with Boris) in the garage cesspit. (Not actually drained until 20[SUP]th[/SUP].) Excavation was started. IS re-arrested at 12:52pm at hotel he had been bailed to. Seen at police station by police nurse at 3:10 pm. He told her he had been suicidal about a month ago.

Sat 16[SUP]th[/SUP] July
IS charged with murder. Excavation continued most of day. Forensic dentist confirmed Helen’s identity.

Oct 12[SUP]th[/SUP] IS pleads not guilty

Dec 12[SUP]th[/SUP] IS serves his defence statement.

 

[cottonweaver]

Re the snooker.
The championship ran April 16 to May 2

April 16 week end IS is in Broadstairs
April 23 week end - big police search at the house, April 22, so unlikely to have gone after that
Most likely dates therefore are April 30/May 1 ( BH week end)


so why phone J, at work, almost 3 weeks prior to tell him about these tickets ?

Indeed -

BIB Why even testify to it? How can it it be materially relevant? Did the prosecution ask about it? "Mr. JS what were you doing w/e of April 30th"? I wasn't aware that they had, albeit from scant court reporting.

1) I hope it's not another "the house was empty therefore enabling JoeNick to come and deposit a body in our cess pit"
2) or could be hopeful jury would make an inference that all was sweet amongst HB, IS, JS etc
3) or an attempt to explain wtte why we are off on a jolly April 30th when our fiancee/step-mum is missing?

probably 3)^?

To me it appeared Dad was concerned and had made various searches and attempts to contact Helen, but couldn’t find her. From Monday April 11 to Friday April 15, there had been no conversations about Helen being absent, Jamie told jurors. Jamie said: “During the week of April 11, dad rang me while I was at work to say himself and Helen had arranged tickets for us to go to the snooker championships. My birthday was a few weeks after.

JS evidence

 

[Duchy]

I'm no medic/nurse, but I am quite confused as to why he needed to have this dressing changed at all, let alone so often.

I've had quite a few surgeries, including my two non-keyhole hernia repairs and an appendectomy, and I didn't need to see a professional for a dressing change once. Neither did I have any stitches to be sore or needing removed etc. Internal stitches dissolve away after a time, and the skin wound was glued. There was no bleeding to speak of.

Is anyone able to expand on why IS's surgery and wound would require so much aftercare?

I've a friend who in the last two years had a major bowel problem which needed a big surgery and the best part of a year with a stoma / colostomy, then the reverse surgery to connect his healed bowel and close the stoma etc. Even he didn't need as many follow-ups / dressing changes as IS seems to have done.

Starting to think IS is a hypochondriac or possibly even a touch of Munchausens (with the drugging of Helen a kind of "by proxy" manifestation of Munchausens?)

After the operation, it is now up to the patient to treat the surgical wound. You are going to take care of the incision until it heals. Usually, it takes about two weeks for the surgical wound to heal. It may take longer, depending on the condition of your incision and the medication you take. But as the wound is healing, you are going to need to take care of the incision, including changing the dressing and cleaning the wounds.

http://woundcaresociety.org/long-leave-dressing-surgery

Before you leave hospital, you'll be told how to keep your wounds clean and when to return for a follow-up appointment or have your stitches removed (although dissolvable stitches are often used).

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Laparoscopy/Pages/How-it-is-performed.aspx

Just sayin :snowflake:

 

[Duchy]

To those who followed the OP trial, can you imagine Nel getting his teeth into IS?

 

[Duchy]

"To me it appeared Dad was concerned and had made various searches and attempts to contact Helen, but couldn’t find her."

OK, but not from Monday 11 to Fri 15......?

"From Monday April 11 to Friday April 15, there had been no conversations about Helen being absent," Jamie told jurors.

Jamie said: “During the week of April 11, dad rang me while I was at work to say himself and Helen had arranged tickets for us to go to the snooker championship."

So he mentioned Helen but not in the context of her being absent?

Therefore it follows that he talked about her in the context of not being absent and he didn't appear concerned or make any attempts to contact her from Monday 11 to Friday April 15?

Is this JS pointing the finger at IS?

 

[InDeep]

quilt/continental quilt in Australia......for what it is worth!

 

[Moll]

Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound - this might interest you Moll.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2602414

It's the NZealander wife 2 interviewed after the programme went out. ( 25 mins long)

( As you've seen, her family's persistence helped force Grampian police to re- open the case into Webster's murder of wife 1. Claire. )

Webster was diagnosed as a sociopath. As you''ll have seen in "the widower", sometimes the drugging was just because he could ( habitual way to shut up his partner) , other times it was with clear financial intent.

I appreciate these two perps are different people and so can't be formally compared....indeed some of Webster's exes explained that in his 30s & 40s he was a good looking guy, with a real way with women, the patter and the private school education, likened by one as "a young Sean Connery".......definitely not applicable to GGHW Ian Stewart.

Thanks Cottonweaver - I've now had the full pound! All three episodes plus the radio interview. You can see from the photo on the NZ radio page that MW was indeed a good-looking charmer, whereas in the TV series he's a bit weird from the beginning. But he did all those things portrayed in the TV drama, including pretending to have leukaemia...
As you say, they are different people. One of the difficulties with getting to grips with how on earth IS could do these things is that he's essentially stayed in one place for decades. Webster was crossing the world to leave his past behind - though he did go back to Scotland, and he didn't change his name, so in a way he didn't make much effort to reinvent himself. Anyway, fascinating. Don't watch it, Neteditor, you clearly have enough to do already!

 

[DollyDiamond]

I don't have the same impression, I think Helen had a full binding will which left her entire estate as a discretionary trust with the trustee being Tony Hurley - https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/training-knowledge/guides/client-guide-use-discretionary-trusts/

Hence TH being shocked that she had total faith in his judgement and the defence claiming that TH could have left IS without a penny. Which he wouldn't have done, if Helen had had a natural/accidental death as she had left informal but clear guidance on what she wanted done.

I'm pretty sure the plan later was to go back to a standard will with bequests, which IS wanted to avoid.

I also expect that given the situation the estate will still go into a discretionary trust and TH will be left with the "fun" of deciding who gets what. I think the Stewart sons will pose a dilemma for him - Helen clearly saw them as family and there is no evidence or indication that they had any idea what their father was doing/has done.

Interesting. I have to say, while Jamie and Oliver Stewart are entirely blameless in all this, I feel it would be wrong in principle if they were ultimately to benefit in any way from the fact that their father murdered Helen Bailey. Regardless of Helen's fondness for the boys, (and they were never officially her stepsons), the fact of her death at the hands of their father I believe changes everything and should make it out of the question for them to inherit from her estate. If they did, it would mean that their father indirectly benefited from murdering her. Plus he has a decent amount of money of his own to leave to them, so they will inherit well solely from his estate one day.

 

[hunkerdown]

Thank you, Cottonweaver (#741), I'll definitely have to listen to that, but it'll have to wait till I've watched the rest of 'The Widower'! I've only watched the first episode so far.

There is the idea - was it yours or Hunkerdown's? - that IS could even have been inspired by this to some extent, but I guess we'll never know.

I mentioned that it first aired in 2014 so he could well have been 'inspired'...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MillyM]

Interesting. I have to say, while Jamie and Oliver Stewart are entirely blameless in all this, I feel it would be wrong in principle if they were ultimately to benefit in any way from the fact that their father murdered Helen Bailey. Regardless of Helen's fondness for the boys, (and they were never officially her stepsons), the fact of her death at the hands of their father I believe changes everything and should make it out of the question for them to inherit from her estate. If they did, it would mean that their father indirectly benefited from murdering her. Plus he has a decent amount of money of his own to leave to them, so they will inherit well solely from his estate one day.

Whilst I agree with you largely, DD, in that no way should his sons inherit anything (no need, they're grown adults in full-time work, let them do what other young people have to do and rent a place if they can't afford, and save up for a deposit; no doubt they have been living rent free for the last years), until I hear something in this trial to the contrary, I am having a hard time believing neither knew nothing or had any suspicions that they could have divulged to the police. And if they had known, would they have grassed on their own father, even given the seriousness of the matter? I also wonder how they really felt about HB especially since they seemed quite unconcerned about her disappearance - OS even flying off to Australia - and in evidence after her death, showed no particular warmth or detectable feelings towards this woman with whom they had shared a home with for years. It sounded more like that: just someone they happened to share a house with.