GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[Alyce]

So he had the Op on March 18, discharged March 25 ( thank you Cotton for the details )
March 26 - 27 is Easter Week end

Then he has post Op visits to the Surgery to have the wound redressed. Anyone got those dates to hand ?
does he take a taxi ?
Or is Helen driving him there ? and if so, which car. I would think the bmw or the fiat would be more comfortable to get in and out of than the Jeep.

IS mentions in his evidence that he and Jamie go out in the Jeep on Saturday April 9.

It’s very sketchy, on the Saturday or Sunday was the first time I went for a drive after my operation. Jamie came with me and we went in the Jeep.
“I can’t remember where we went, we might have just gone to get some dog food or something

So this is IS saying it is the first time he has driven a car since the Op. We only have his word for this, the only person who might be able to contradict that statement would have been Helen.
But then - two days later - he is clearly fit enough to drive himself to several places.

 

[Alyce]

From Jamie's evidence

Jamie said: “During the week of April 11, dad rang me while I was at work to say himself and Helen had arranged tickets for us to go to the snooker championships. My birthday was a few weeks after.


Would be very interesting to know which day of the week that was.
I think IS was too busy on Monday
Tuesday - maybe
From Wednesday onwards IS is having to deal with John B and discussions re trying to find where Helen is and by Friday he has made the call to the police.


eta .... plus - why the need to call Jamie at work to tell him this ? It was organised, by IS and Helen, as a birthday treat and was not taking place for almost 3 weeks.
Wouldnt it be normal to tell J this at home, a nice surprise announcement, over supper or at the week end.

 

[snoopydog]

So he had the Op on March 18, discharged March 25 ( thank you Cotton for the details )
March 26 - 27 is Easter Week end

Then he has post Op visits to the Surgery to have the wound redressed. Anyone got those dates to hand ?
does he take a taxi ?
Or is Helen driving him there ? and if so, which car. I would think the bmw or the fiat would be more comfortable to get in and out of than the Jeep.

IS mentions in his evidence that he and Jamie go out in the Jeep on Saturday April 9.

It’s very sketchy, on the Saturday or Sunday was the first time I went for a drive after my operation. Jamie came with me and we went in the Jeep.
“I can’t remember where we went, we might have just gone to get some dog food or something

So this is IS saying it is the first time he has driven a car since the Op. We only have his word for this, the only person who might be able to contradict that statement would have been Helen.
But then - two days later - he is clearly fit enough to drive himself to several places.

After an operation you can drive as soon as you can perform an emergency stop as far I'm aware.


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[Florrie]

After an operation you can drive as soon as you can perform an emergency stop as far I'm aware.


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That's what my insurance company said to me after a Caesarean section.

I've also had keyhole surgery for a gallbladder removal and was fighting fit within a week of that, didn't even need pain killers. I was allowed to drive after a week...but the only reason I couldn't drive before was the Doctor wanted to review me first. Once that happened he said I could drive again.


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[snoopydog]

That's what my insurance company said to me after a Caesarean section.

I've also had keyhole surgery for a gallbladder removal and was fighting fit within a week of that, didn't even need pain killers. I was allowed to drive after a week...but the only reason I couldn't drive before was the Doctor wanted to review me first. Once that happened he said I could drive again.


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And considering we all know he was planning this for a while he was probably playing up what he could and couldn't do to everyone so that he'd be covered later..... e.g. The not being able to get something out the kitchen cupboard or whatever it was....


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[Squamous]

And considering we all know he was planning this for a while he was probably playing up what he could and couldn't do to everyone so that he'd be covered later..... e.g. The not being able to get something out the kitchen cupboard or whatever it was....


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I agree. I'm sure the lack of tray carrying was to convince his sons of his weakness.

 

[cottonweaver]

So he had the Op on March 18, discharged March 25 ( thank you Cotton for the details )
March 26 - 27 is Easter Week end

Then he has post Op visits to the Surgery to have the wound redressed. Anyone got those dates to hand ?
does he take a taxi ?
Or is Helen driving him there ? and if so, which car. I would think the bmw or the fiat would be more comfortable to get in and out of than the Jeep.

IS mentions in his evidence that he and Jamie go out in the Jeep on Saturday April 9.

It’s very sketchy, on the Saturday or Sunday was the first time I went for a drive after my operation. Jamie came with me and we went in the Jeep.
“I can’t remember where we went, we might have just gone to get some dog food or something

So this is IS saying it is the first time he has driven a car since the Op. We only have his word for this, the only person who might be able to contradict that statement would have been Helen.
But then - two days later - he is clearly fit enough to drive himself to several places.

BIB
wound dressings at local Ashwell surgery: ( March 21 must have been a typo/reporting error)

-April 4 ( MONDAY Tortoise ) by Lynn Hull,( N.B same date HB has poached eggs and sleeps for 5 hrs according to Eilleen who dates this sleep as around late morning to c.1pm. IS's parents come round whilst HB is asleep - an unplanned visit by them? we don't have that info.)

-April 7th thursday ( Sue Ridge-Reeves)
-April 11th (Lynn Hull,) MONDAY again
you don't need the dates after Helen "disappears" but just for completeness:
-April 21 (different nurse) IS is "Acting" distressed for L.Hull. IMO or has a lot on his mind.) OS & Alex off to Aus. today ) appears to have been 3 house searches by then. Assume he was getting concerned police had not let up, despite bungling the garage searches, he starts snapping at constable Daines later on this day.
-April 25 (Lynn Hull )
- April 29 (Lynn Hull )On this day he eventually tells her he'll be off to Sheffield for snooker championships.

fitness levels post- op. ( presume we will hear more on this next week?)

Dr Buczacki was asked how long it would take to recover from this sort of major surgery.
“It is very variable....we test that the patients are safe, can get out of bed, can walk around the ward, and are capable of climbing and going down the stairs."

( Buczacki wouldn't give a number as an estimate.)

his driving - haven't checked her FB as it's unlikely to say who drove when they went for their celebratory meal (gastro pub in Royston)
11th April. JS "S““He’d come to Cambridge and I thought it was the first time he’d travelled that distance. He told me his stitches were sore from sitting in the car for so long." Seems to be a qualified statement .

 

[cottonweaver]

The horrid thought I had last night is - could he be reading all this? He hasn't been found guilty yet, he's on remand. Are remand prisoners allowed to use the internet?

Interesting! If I really thought he was reading here, I'd be far less polite Cherwell!
Once he's done his turn ( mon or Tues) and still has access to the net, pls remind us all to send him our msgs via Wsleuths

ETA - just seen the later replies to Cherwell's post, about FB etc being banned. As all this year, jailbirds partying and posting their frolics on FB has caused questions to be asked in Parlt, convicted prisoners obviously do have sneaky access and plenty of mobile phones......

 

[Cherwell]

Interesting! If I really thought he was reading here, I'd be far less polite Cherwell!
Once he's done his turn ( mon or Tues) and still has access to the net, pls remind us all to send him our msgs via Wsleuths

LOL I just don't want him picking up any useful ideas!

 

[MillyM]

From Jamie's evidence

Jamie said: “During the week of April 11, dad rang me while I was at work to say himself and Helen had arranged tickets for us to go to the snooker championships. My birthday was a few weeks after.


Would be very interesting to know which day of the week that was.
I think IS was too busy on Monday
Tuesday - maybe
From Wednesday onwards IS is having to deal with John B and discussions re trying to find where Helen is and by Friday he has made the call to the police.


eta .... plus - why the need to call Jamie at work to tell him this ? It was organised, by IS and Helen, as a birthday treat and was not taking place for almost 3 weeks.
Wouldnt it be normal to tell J this at home, a nice surprise announcement, over supper or at the week end.

Exactly, one would have thought...

For all the closeness that purports to exist between them, the father and sons come over as having a somewhat disengaged relationship. Or is there a reason for stressing the calling?

 

[Moll]

Thanks to Hunkerdown's recommendation, and Cottonweaver posting a link in #14 of this thread, I have just watched the first episode of 'The Widower'. Absolutely spooky similarities in places - the sleeping pills, the self-deception, weeping and victim-blaming, the money getting shifted into the joint account...
I should not be doing this. I suspect Neteditor's book is getting on a lot better than mine.

 

[Cherwell]

Interesting! If I really thought he was reading here, I'd be far less polite Cherwell!
Once he's done his turn ( mon or Tues) and still has access to the net, pls remind us all to send him our msgs via Wsleuths

LOL I just don't want him picking up any useful ideas!

 

[Moll]

Exactly, one would have thought...

For all the closeness that purports to exist between them, the father and sons come over as having a somewhat disengaged relationship. Or is there a reason for stressing the calling?

It would be normal to do that if one of the two providing the treat were not actually dead, so do you think IS was trying to create an illusion of everyone chugging along normally - making the call at some point in that week between the murder and his 101 call, probably before anyone started worrying?

 

[Cherwell]

"... Why the need to call Jamie at work to tell him this ? It was organised, by IS and Helen, as a birthday treat and was not taking place for almost 3 weeks.
Wouldnt it be normal to tell J this at home, a nice surprise announcement, over supper or at the week end."

Would Jamie have needed to take a day off work? Perhaps it was so that he could make those arrangements without delay.
Sorry, I don't know where or when the snooker event took place.

 

[icemaiden65]

Thanks to Hunkerdown's recommendation, and Cottonweaver posting a link in #14 of this thread, I have just watched the first episode of 'The Widower'. Absolutely spooky similarities in places - the sleeping pills, the self-deception, weeping and victim-blaming, the money getting shifted into the joint account...
I should not be doing this. I suspect Neteditor's book is getting on a lot better than mine.

Well my ironing is still leering at me from the 'futility' room! So much for saying I'd do it yesterday, sigh.

 

[Alyce]

BIB
wound dressings at local Ashwell surgery: ( March 21 must have been a typo/reporting error)

-April 4 ( MONDAY Tortoise ) by Lynn Hull,( N.B same date HB has poached eggs and sleeps for 5 hrs according to Eilleen who dates this sleep as around late morning to c.1pm. IS's parents come round whilst HB is asleep - an unplanned visit by them? we don't have that info.)

-April 7th thursday ( Sue Ridge-Reeves)
-April 11th (Lynn Hull,) MONDAY again
you don't need the dates after Helen "disappears" but just for completeness:
-April 21 (different nurse) IS is "Acting" distressed for L.Hull. IMO or has a lot on his mind.) OS & Alex off to Aus. today ) appears to have been 3 house searches by then. Assume he was getting concerned police had not let up, despite bungling the garage searches, he starts snapping at constable Daines later on this day.
-April 25 (Lynn Hull )
- April 29 (Lynn Hull )On this day he eventually tells her he'll be off to Sheffield for snooker championships.

fitness levels post- op. ( presume we will hear more on this next week?)
( Buczacki wouldn't give a number as an estimate.)

his driving - haven't checked her FB as it's unlikely to say who drove when they went for their celebratory meal (gastro pub in Royston)
11th April. JS "S““He’d come to Cambridge and I thought it was the first time he’d travelled that distance. He told me his stitches were sore from sitting in the car for so long." Seems to be a qualified statement .

Thanks

I wonder if that March 21 error was actually March 29.
The evidence given said he needed to have the dressing changed every 3 to 4 days ( at least to begin with ) so surely he wouldnt have gone 10 days, March 25 to April 4 , without a Surgery visit.
March 29 was the Tuesday after the Easter week end, so that would fit in with a 4 day plan.
Or even, March 31 - 6 days after discharge from hospital, and then only 4 days to the next appointment.

So on Monday April 4, by his own evidence, he is not yet driving. Helen is asleep ( 8am to 1pm ) so were his parents drafted in to drive him to Surgery - or was it just a taxi trip.
Thursday April 7 presumably Helen could take him as it was not one of her sleep days !
This may also have been the day of the gastro pub meal.
Helen's twitter comment on Saturday April 9 indicates that the meal had taken place earlier that week ( and it wouldnt have been the Friday, as Helen was asleep again on that day ).

 

[neteditor]

Thanks to Hunkerdown's recommendation, and Cottonweaver posting a link in #14 of this thread, I have just watched the first episode of 'The Widower'. Absolutely spooky similarities in places - the sleeping pills, the self-deception, weeping and victim-blaming, the money getting shifted into the joint account...
I should not be doing this. I suspect Neteditor's book is getting on a lot better than mine.

Hehe I wouldn't go betting any large amounts on that

I promised myself I'd keep my nose out of this conversation. The pull is too strong.

God forbid I ever get personally caught up in a murder enquiry. Between research for my book, looking things up for this discussion and earlier googling while editing a friend's murder mystery series, I think I've shot myself in the foot many times over The WebSleuths would have me over a barrel!

 

[Alyce]

Exactly, one would have thought...

For all the closeness that purports to exist between them, the father and sons come over as having a somewhat disengaged relationship. Or is there a reason for stressing the calling?

that was the way my suspicious mind was going

 

[neteditor]

BIB
wound dressings at local Ashwell surgery: ( March 21 must have been a typo/reporting error)

-April 4 ( MONDAY Tortoise ) by Lynn Hull,( N.B same date HB has poached eggs and sleeps for 5 hrs according to Eilleen who dates this sleep as around late morning to c.1pm. IS's parents come round whilst HB is asleep - an unplanned visit by them? we don't have that info.)

-April 7th thursday ( Sue Ridge-Reeves)
-April 11th (Lynn Hull,) MONDAY again
you don't need the dates after Helen "disappears" but just for completeness:
-April 21 (different nurse) IS is "Acting" distressed for L.Hull. IMO or has a lot on his mind.) OS & Alex off to Aus. today ) appears to have been 3 house searches by then. Assume he was getting concerned police had not let up, despite bungling the garage searches, he starts snapping at constable Daines later on this day.
-April 25 (Lynn Hull )
- April 29 (Lynn Hull )On this day he eventually tells her he'll be off to Sheffield for snooker championships.

I'm no medic/nurse, but I am quite confused as to why he needed to have this dressing changed at all, let alone so often.

I've had quite a few surgeries, including my two non-keyhole hernia repairs and an appendectomy, and I didn't need to see a professional for a dressing change once. Neither did I have any stitches to be sore or needing removed etc. Internal stitches dissolve away after a time, and the skin wound was glued. There was no bleeding to speak of.

Is anyone able to expand on why IS's surgery and wound would require so much aftercare?

I've a friend who in the last two years had a major bowel problem which needed a big surgery and the best part of a year with a stoma / colostomy, then the reverse surgery to connect his healed bowel and close the stoma etc. Even he didn't need as many follow-ups / dressing changes as IS seems to have done.

Starting to think IS is a hypochondriac or possibly even a touch of Munchausens (with the drugging of Helen a kind of "by proxy" manifestation of Munchausens?)

 

[snoopydog]

I'm no medic/nurse, but I am quite confused as to why he needed to have this dressing changed at all, let alone so often.

I've had quite a few surgeries, including my two non-keyhole hernia repairs and an appendectomy, and I didn't need to see a professional for a dressing change once. Neither did I have any stitches to be sore or needing removed etc. Internal stitches dissolve away after a time, and the skin wound was glued. There was no bleeding to speak of.

Is anyone able to expand on why IS's surgery and wound would require so much aftercare?

I've a friend who in the last two years had a major bowel problem which needed a big surgery and the best part of a year with a stoma / colostomy, then the reverse surgery to connect his healed bowel and close the stoma etc. Even he didn't need as many follow-ups / dressing changes as IS seems to have done.

Starting to think IS is a hypochondriac or possibly even a touch of Munchausens (with the drugging of Helen a kind of "by proxy" manifestation of Munchausens?)

Yup. I agree. Seems excessive for the procedure he had.


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