GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #6

[Rayemonde]

I am a bit lost with all the phone stuff. Why did Nick and Joe want it? And what was of such importance to them that they had to have in this paperwork?

It seems like he did get thumped in jail - very convenient to add to his story - but I doubt on any N/J orders, just the other lags disliking that sort of crime and dispensing some of their own justice.

The lever arch folder is just a McGuffin that IS invented as a motive for Nick and Joe to kill Helen. It's just a plot device, so it doesn't have to make any sense or be explained any further

Nick and Joe Wanting Helen's phone is just IS's excuse for taking it to Broadstairs, where he knows that it connected to the Internet. He had to explain why he had jer phone whilst he was there. Again, it makes no sense, as he was already texting "Helen" on the phone whilst he admits he still had it!

 

[MillyM]

Thanks Michelle, glad you got in. Were any of his or Helen's family in?

He has contrived such an elaborate story that I can't help wonder if part of the plot came from a thriller novel or TV crime drama.

 

[perfectvirgo]

Don't forget that the prosecution counsel will make a closing speech, in which all threads can be pulled together and dots joined.

Oh, I agree, and I expect Trimmer to do exactly that. Just would have been nice to hear the ridiculous notion that Helen wouldn't know why she was falling asleep put to him.

 

[BlueMosaic]

The lever arch folder is just a McGuffin that IS invented as a motive for Nick and Joe to kill Helen. It's just a plot device, so it doesn't have to make any sense or be explained any further

Nick and Joe Wanting Helen's phone is just IS's excuse for taking it to Broadstairs, where he knows that it connected to the Internet. He had to explain why he had jer phone whilst he was there. Again, it makes no sense, as he was already texting "Helen" on the phone whilst he admits he still had it!

Another IS ailment-Plot Dee Weis!

 

[Tortoise]

Hi I was there this afternoon along with another WS member (not Lit-Up - not sure if he/she was there).
Court is so full that the lovely court official had to play "bingo" with us. He allocated us all a number and the first 13 numbers he called out were able to go in, with a few left outside as no space.
Someone asked yesterday about the jury. TBH from their expressions I think they see things as we do - looks of incredulity, suspicion, almost raised eyebrows/really??" type expressions.
IS is weird - everything about him! As a person, he illicits no warmth or sympathy as a person. He is totally unengaging! I don`t know if it`s to do with his illness as I haven`t a clue about the symptoms, but his facial expressions and mannerisms are very unattractive. He blinks, his eyes shift/roll around, he does have this constantly strange almost "grin like" grimace. There is nothing to suggest this is a likeable man albeit he is in the witness box accused of a terrible crime. If presentation matters, then his whole persona will not help his cause.
Listening objectively in court, the ludicrousness of his explanations is even sharper and have greater clarity. He is telling the only story possible to save himself and it does not work. Not even a tiny part of it. I wonder if objectively he is aware of that himself.
Next week will continue with him on the stand and the summing up/directions etc. Then jury should be out the following Monday.
It is terribly, terribly sad. We all know how we feel and we all want justice to be done. However at the heart of it, are two families who are real people and going through a major trauma. I feel pain for his two sons. These are boys you would be proud to have as your own sons. They were dealt a bad hand in the game of life.
Michelle

Thanks Michelle.

Does he come across as confident or cocky in his answers? And is Trimmer any good?

I'm not worried whether he's good or not, he's superfluous as far as I'm concerned, I'm just interested.

 

[MillyM]

The lever arch folder is just a McGuffin that IS invented as a motive for Nick and Joe to kill Helen. It's just a plot device, so it doesn't have to make any sense or be explained any further

But what was so important in the lever arch folder??!!! I think a simple burglary gone wrong story might have held more water. Like I mentioned in an earlier post about Stuart Hazell, giving too much detail can be as damning as too little.

 

[Duchy]

Copied over from Cotton's post



The prosecution suggests a break as Stewart is getting tired, but Stewart says: No, I want to get this over with.”



does he think the Pros is nearly finished then ?? :laughing::laughing::laughing:

He's enjoying himself and doesn't want to stop. He thinks he's doing well. He's deluded.

 

[snoopydog]

Can you imagine N&J hanging onto a body for a week so they could dump it in his cesspit when they could just as easily have buried it or left it in a ditch

I didn't take from what he said that he thought they'd killed her then. Just that they'd done the same thing to Helen as they'd done to him.


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[cottonweaver]

So he'd accessed Helen's FB on April 17th and admitted it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TX hunkerdown. That one's 17 April.


what about this one which was testified to much earlier in trial

On Sunday, April 24, I noticed a missed Facetime call from Helen’s email address at 3.31pm on Friday April 22, 2016.”Margaret Holson

 

[michelle230]

Thanks Michelle.

Does he come across as confident or cocky in his answers? And is Trimmer any good?

I'm not worried whether he's good or not, he's superfluous as far as I'm concerned, I'm just interested.

No - he`s neither cocky, nor confident. He`s...weird. He speaks very quietly, short answers, mostly after a pause to have a short think (as in "I wonder what the best answer to give is or "I wonder where they are trying to lead me with this question") accompanied by involuntary blinking/eye rolling/strange mouth twists.
Trimmer is good. He is doing his job in a pretty understated way at the moment, but he is not mincing his words either. I would imagine that this is one of his easier cases! (Although obviously very unpleasant).
I think everybody wants and expects the same ending.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Hi I was there this afternoon along with another WS member (not Lit-Up - not sure if he/she was there).
Court is so full that the lovely court official had to play "bingo" with us. He allocated us all a number and the first 13 numbers he called out were able to go in, with a few left outside as no space.
Someone asked yesterday about the jury. TBH from their expressions I think they see things as we do - looks of incredulity, suspicion, almost raised eyebrows/really??" type expressions.
IS is weird - everything about him! As a person, he illicits no warmth or sympathy as a person. He is totally unengaging! I don`t know if it`s to do with his illness as I haven`t a clue about the symptoms, but his facial expressions and mannerisms are very unattractive. He blinks, his eyes shift/roll around, he does have this constantly strange almost "grin like" grimace. There is nothing to suggest this is a likeable man albeit he is in the witness box accused of a terrible crime. If presentation matters, then his whole persona will not help his cause.
Listening objectively in court, the ludicrousness of his explanations is even sharper and have greater clarity. He is telling the only story possible to save himself and it does not work. Not even a tiny part of it. I wonder if objectively he is aware of that himself.
Next week will continue with him on the stand and the summing up/directions etc. Then jury should be out the following Monday.
It is terribly, terribly sad. We all know how we feel and we all want justice to be done. However at the heart of it, are two families who are real people and going through a major trauma. I feel pain for his two sons. These are boys you would be proud to have as your own sons. They were dealt a bad hand in the game of life.
Michelle

Fascinating to get your take on today's proceedings Michelle, thanks so much. Your description of IS was very reassuring - glad to hear he come across in an equally unappealing way as his tall tales of the clearly cartoon Nick and Joe!

I would love to hear your observations on Mr Trimmer's performance today. He has so much damning material at his fingertips, but I found today's transcripts a little underwhelming. Was he more dynamic in the flesh than his words would suggest - at least to me. Don't want to diss the guy and I'm hoping he'll come good and hammer that toe rag on Monday. But I must be honest, I'm a little disappointed so far.

 

[michelle230]

Thanks Michelle, glad you got in. Were any of his or Helen's family in?

He has contrived such an elaborate story that I can't help wonder if part of the plot came from a thriller novel or TV crime drama.

Yes although I haven`t been for a couple of weeks, I think JS and his partner and J go every day. O was there today. Obviously this is the main part now.

 

[michelle230]

Fascinating to get your take on today's proceedings Michelle, thanks so much. Your description of IS was very reassuring - glad to hear he come across in an equally unappealing way as his tall tales of the clearly cartoon Nick and Joe!

I would love to hear your observations on Mr Trimmer's performance today. He has so much damning material at his fingertips, but I found today's transcripts a little underwhelming. Was he more dynamic in the flesh than his words would suggest - at least to me. Don't want to diss the guy and I'm hoping he'll come good and hammer that toe rag on Monday. But I must be honest, I'm a little disappointed so far.

I understand what you are saying DD, but in truth maybe he doesn`t need to be dynamic or flamboyant. I don`t know if that`s his character.

Obviously we are all frothing and outraged and shouting silently at the sheer lies and insults to our intelligence. But I guess this is a court room and I think IS is being given the chance to hang himself without anyone needing to interrupt the process. My guess is that if anything he said * could * be viewed as a genuine possibility - anything where it was felt that the jury *could* waver and feel an element of doubt creeping in, then that would be the time for Mr Trimmer to become more forceful/aggressive in his questioning and coming on hard to shatter any possible illusions. He is questioning a fair bit but he`s spoilt for choice and maybe doesn`t feel the need to examine every lie to the ninth degree. That`s my take anyway but I do understand what you are saying.

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes although I haven`t been for a couple of weeks, I think JS and his partner and J go every day. O was there today. Obviously this is the main part now.

Thanks Michelle for this feedback, you were very lucky to get in. Maybe Matt got in too? So good to get feedback.

I completely mis-read this post. You mean James Stewart goes every day - can I ask you how you know that?

Does that mean he has left his job? Or has taken a 6 week time off from work on compassionate leave?( I am just thinking aloud on this one, appreciate you won't have the answer to that. )

 

[BlueMosaic]

I'm quite a peaceful person and generally hate violence but that most-shown pic of him and Helen with him in the blue shirt and rictus grin makes me want to punch him in the paunch.

 

[cheeseman]

I understand what you are saying DD, but in truth maybe he doesn`t need to be dynamic or flamboyant. I don`t know if that`s his character.

Obviously we are all frothing and outraged and shouting silently at the sheer lies and insults to our intelligence. But I guess this is a court room and I think IS is being given the chance to hang himself without anyone needing to interrupt the process. My guess is that if anything he said * could * be viewed as a genuine possibility - anything where it was felt that the jury *could* waver and feel an element of doubt creeping in, then that would be the time for Mr Trimmer to become more forceful/aggressive in his questioning and coming on hard to shatter any possible illusions. He is questioning a fair bit but he`s spoilt for choice and maybe doesn`t feel the need to examine every lie to the ninth degree. That`s my take anyway but I do understand what you are saying.

IS's defence has more holes than a string vest, poor Trimmer probably is overwhelmed and needs the weekend to get his head round the drivel that's been spouted over the last couple of days.

 

[Moll]

I didn't take from what he said that he thought they'd killed her then. Just that they'd done the same thing to Helen as they'd done to him.

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Snoopy, I wasn't sure about this either and have just been unsuccessfully searching for the bit where he described the headlock. I'm sure someone else can find it for us...

 

[michelle230]

Thanks Michelle for this feedback, you were very lucky to get in. Maybe Matt got in too? So good to get feedback.

I completely mis-read this post. You mean James Stewart goes every day - can I ask you how you know that?

Does that mean he has left his job? Or has taken a 6 week time off from work on compassionate leave?( I am just thinking aloud on this one, appreciate you won't have the answer to that. )

Yes Matt was there today!
I would absolutely think that the boys have been given compassionate leave.
Give me 15 minutes....

 

[cottonweaver]

IS's defence has more holes than a string vest, poor Trimmer probably is overwhelmed and needs the weekend to get his head round the drivel that's been spouted over the last couple of days.

Imagine being Trimmer and hearing all this guff for the first time ever today ! Doubtless he'll be working again tonight now on his notes due to all the changes in his Defence.

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes Matt was there today!
I would absolutely think that the boys have been given compassionate leave.
Give me 15 minutes....

Cheers Michelle. No I just meant, has a court usher told you that Jamie has been there every day, during the weeks that you haven't been able to go.