GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #6

[michelle230]

No - he`s neither cocky, nor confident. He`s...weird. He speaks very quietly, short answers, mostly after a pause to have a short think (as in "I wonder what the best answer to give is or "I wonder where they are trying to lead me with this question") accompanied by involuntary blinking/eye rolling/strange mouth twists.
Trimmer is good. He is doing his job in a pretty understated way at the moment, but he is not mincing his words either. I would imagine that this is one of his easier cases! (Although obviously very unpleasant).

I think everybody wants and expects the same ending.

Sorry - I left out the most important impression I have of him. Truly, deeply, and in the real sense of the word - a pathetic figure.

 

[cottonweaver]

Snoopy, I wasn't sure about this either and have just been unsuccessfully searching for the bit where he described the headlock. I'm sure someone else can find it for us...

it's in today's link , here's the extract which shows Helen is meant to be still alive OR that IS is lead to believe that she is, which is quite different evidence

“He said go to Broadstairs regardless whether I found the phone or not.
“He then told me that after lunch at 1.30pm to walk along the cliff top in Broadstairs.
“He spun me round put his arm round my neck and said: ‘You don’t seem to understand how serious it is, this is really serious, if you don’t do what we say or tell the police or anyone, you won’t see Helen again’.
“He said: ‘This is what happened to Helen’ and I fell to the floor trying to get my breath back.
“He said ‘make sure I see you in Broadstairs tomorrow. Don’t tell anyone or you won’t see Helen again.’

 

[BatFace]

It is just so hard to imagine what on earth Helen saw in him, isn't it? God knows I've made my own mistakes when vulnerable, mind.

 

[michelle230]

IS's defence has more holes than a string vest, poor Trimmer probably is overwhelmed and needs the weekend to get his head round the drivel that's been spouted over the last couple of days.

Lol Cheeseman I think that was what I was trying to say. I hope Mrs Trimmer runs him a nice bubble bath every evening with scented candles and therapeutic panpipe (or is it windchime??) music playing softly in the background

 

[michelle230]

It is just so hard to imagine what on earth Helen saw in him, isn't it? God knows I've made my own mistakes when vulnerable, mind.

Batface, I think Helen was more vulnerable than was realised. Most of us are very good at hiding our vulnerabilities. Sometimes even we ourselves, don`t know we are vulnerable..

 

[Rayemonde]

But what was so important in the lever arch folder??!!! I think a simple burglary gone wrong story might have held more water. Like I mentioned in an earlier post about Stuart Hazell, giving too much detail can be as damning as too little.

Even IS doesn't know what was in the folder!

After all, he's Just An Ordinary Man, Trapped in a Situation he Doesn't Understand, Fighting to Save The Woman he Loves, Framed for a Crime He Didn't Commit... In 3D!

Seriously though, he's playing dumb (yes, I know he really is dumb too...). He's not sophisticated like Helen and her husband, he doesn't understand all this business lark. And of course the implication is that IS is the innocent victim in all this, and Helen and husband must have been involved in some dodgy dealing to bring all this trouble to poor IS's door. IS is just a simple, passive, sick man and all this just happened to him! He just did what he was told!

Why, he wouldn't even harm a fly...

 

[neteditor]

Hi I was there this afternoon along with another WS member (not Lit-Up - not sure if he/she was there).
Court is so full that the lovely court official had to play "bingo" with us. He allocated us all a number and the first 13 numbers he called out were able to go in, with a few left outside as no space.
Someone asked yesterday about the jury. TBH from their expressions I think they see things as we do - looks of incredulity, suspicion, almost raised eyebrows/really??" type expressions.
IS is weird - everything about him! As a person, he illicits no warmth or sympathy as a person. He is totally unengaging! I don`t know if it`s to do with his illness as I haven`t a clue about the symptoms, but his facial expressions and mannerisms are very unattractive. He blinks, his eyes shift/roll around, he does have this constantly strange almost "grin like" grimace. There is nothing to suggest this is a likeable man albeit he is in the witness box accused of a terrible crime. If presentation matters, then his whole persona will not help his cause.
Listening objectively in court, the ludicrousness of his explanations is even sharper and have greater clarity. He is telling the only story possible to save himself and it does not work. Not even a tiny part of it. I wonder if objectively he is aware of that himself.
Next week will continue with him on the stand and the summing up/directions etc. Then jury should be out the following Monday.
It is terribly, terribly sad. We all know how we feel and we all want justice to be done. However at the heart of it, are two families who are real people and going through a major trauma. I feel pain for his two sons. These are boys you would be proud to have as your own sons. They were dealt a bad hand in the game of life.
Michelle

Thank you so much Michelle, as always beautifully described and extremely keen observations.

 

[Alyce]

nick demonstrating neck hold apparently took place on the 15th April and he spoke to her on the 14th April so he is claiming she died between these two times. It was a week later before N&J turned up to rummage in the garage. If this were true her body would be in a very decomposed state. Doesn't fit the forensics evidence.

No it was Friday April 15 that IS claims he spoke with Helen


Stewart's evidence continues - "She was alive. I spoke with her on the phone"
Stewart has taken the witness box again. He says he didn’t see Helen on Friday April 15 - the day Joe and Nick told him Helen would be back.
“Nick showed up, he handed me a phone, I said ‘hello’.
“Helen says: ‘I love you, sorry about everything.
“I said: ‘It’s not your fault. I love you too.
“She said: ‘I need my phone, it’s on my desk, give it to them and do what they say’.
“I said: ‘Where are you? He then lifted the phone off me.
“It was definitely Helen. She was alive, I was speaking with her.”

 

[cottonweaver]

Great post Raymonde.

Also
Think he's a man of many personas and capable of putting on the "quietly spoken" manner when he needs to.
Manipulative people are good at these kinds of adjustments depending on what messages they are trying to send/ nature of their audience, purposes etc.

 

[Duchy]

9:04 IS said Helen rang the solicitors from the home landline

I take it there are records to confirm that? The solicitor didn't say who called did he? Helen was emailing and surfing the net that morning. Why would she be canceling?

'I put it to you that Helen didn't make that call - you did.'

'Why did you make that call?'

'Helen wasn't unwell was she?'

'What illness was Helen suffering from?'

 

[Duchy]

So what did the dog alert to?

Good point. Already dead then.

 

[Duchy]

I recall reading the dogs were search and rescue dogs. That is quite different from cadaver dogs. They would detect human scent but not necessarily death. However, I cannot remember whether there were two dog searches. Anyone recall? Maybe if there was a second search, cadaver dogs were used.

Oh right. Cadaver dogs anyone?

 

[Alyce]

I take it there are records to confirm that? The solicitor didn't say who called did he? Helen was emailing and surfing the net that morning. Why would she be canceling?

'I put it to you that Helen didn't make that call - you did.'

'Why did you make that call?'

'Helen wasn't unwell was she?'

'What illness was Helen suffering from?'

The Solicitors evidence has always irritated me. Either we didnt hear all of it ( very likely ) or they dont seem to keep very accurate records. The ( former ) receptionist/secretary didnt seem to have very good recall of when IS was there.
It would be very useful to know who made that call.

 

[Duchy]

I recall reading the dogs were search and rescue dogs. That is quite different from cadaver dogs. They would detect human scent but not necessarily death. However, I cannot remember whether there were two dog searches. Anyone recall? Maybe if there was a second search, cadaver dogs were used.

Hold on. What was the use of search and rescue dogs? Helen's scent would be all over the shop.

ETA: Answered up thread by Alyce:

Here's the link to Stephen Polley - the handler who attended Hartwell Lodge on Friday April 22 and his dog Paolo.....

Black and white springer spaniel Paolo is the latest dog to be trained and is the second pooch to be based within the Dereham-based Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) team.

The two-year-old, whose official title is forensic evidence and victim search dog, is primarily used to locate high-risk missing people as well as assisting with other recovery work.

He is also specialised in blood detection and searches for bodies in and out of water – the only specialised fire and rescue service dog of his kind in the UK.

 

[Lovinnen]

Just catching up but glanced at the TV listing and thought 'wow, BBC4 are quick off the mark'.
Apparently though the program 'British History's Biggest Fibs' isn't about IS evidence today lol

 

[Interested Bystander]

Oh right. Cadaver dogs anyone?

This has been sorted thank you by many of our astute members. The dog used was a specialist dog capable of detecting bodies/death.

 

[Alyce]

Hi Duchy

Here's the info re Stephen and his dog

Paolo is a forensic evidence and victim search dog - the only one of his kind in the UK. Shows it was a serious search the police had planned on that day.

Here's the link to Stephen Polley - the handler who attended Hartwell Lodge on Friday April 22 and his dog Paolo.....

Black and white springer spaniel Paolo is the latest dog to be trained and is the second pooch to be based within the Dereham-based Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) team.

The two-year-old, whose official title is forensic evidence and victim search dog, is primarily used to locate high-risk missing people as well as assisting with other recovery work.

He is also specialised in blood detection and searches for bodies in and out of water – the only specialised fire and rescue service dog of his kind in the UK.


http://www.derehamtimes.co.uk/news/...rvice_dogs_are_vital_to_the_brigade_1_4036087

 

[Moll]

it's in today's link , here's the extract which shows Helen is meant to be still alive OR that IS is lead to believe that she is, which is quite different evidence

Thanks,CW. It's oddly phrased, isn't it? Clearly he's threatening IS (in the story, I mean!) that she will die if he doesn't comply, but then in the past tense ' This is what happened to Helen'. No wonder it feels like a confession, as was spotted earlier, because it had already happened to Helen. Perhaps it slipped out.

 

[Alyce]

Just catching up but glanced at the TV listing and thought 'wow, BBC4 are quick off the mark'.
Apparently though the program 'British History's Biggest Fibs' isn't about IS evidence today lol

He'll be the star in a future episode

 

[Joely 123]

Thank you all for the time you take to research and analyse - thank you for all the updates today - and Michelle 230 for your incredible sense in making us feel more present in Court today.

I followed Websleuths throughout today - thinking and absorbing - most with a lock-jaw expression. Not able to move whilst listening to IS's belief in his lies.
I found - S. Trimmer QC - absolutely brilliant. Softly softly get the/your? monkey. He has set up a scenario, where he covers (so far with time allowance) each statement of lie on the part of IS - there is lots of evidence of this - and I am sorry I haven't drawn down the full transcript and highlighted where. But - I saw it, deconstructed it - and can see the 'trap' Prosecution is giving himself to outwit IS. It is so brilliant (already said that!!)
Now - just another thing. ITV - Journalist .. sorry can't remember name burt Robert Cobult? stated on the 6.30 news tonight - outside the court - that within the Prosecution XX - it was suggested that Helen's demise *advertiser censored* (sorry) was to be 3 days earlier on the 8th April. That is the day IS's parents' visited unexpectedly/or expected. If this is not a journalist error - I feel there could be some truth in this and that S. Trimmer has another one up his sleeve relating to the 8th - when Helen slept through their visit and didn't even hear her beloved Boris alerting her to people at the door.
I am so thankful to this Forum .. I think I may have gone mad without your comments to rely on Justice being done. Thank you for ever.