GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #6

[cottonweaver]

yes do Tortoise ^. That sounds fascinating. 18 sorrys!

 

[Tortoise]

yes do Tortoise ^. That sounds fascinating. 18 sorrys!

What? B ugger off? How very dare you! :slap:

 

[Tortoise]

Haha

 

[ColourPurple]

There is also IS evidence, from earlier this week re another parents visit and Helen sleeping , again.
This visit must be Friday be April 8 as we know the solicitors appointment was cancelled on that day.

Stewart is talking about when he phoned the solicitors on Helen’s behalf and cancelled an appointment for her.
Stewart: “Helen was tired, she curled up and went to sleep with Boris. I phoned and cancelled her appointment.
“My mum and dad came round for a coffee, but Helen was asleep.”

So we have two occasions where on days that Helen was due to go to see the solicitor, the appointment was cancelled. The first time by him, the 2nd time we don't know who cancelled.

Why did he want to stop her going to the solicitors?

 

[Moll]

Please do, Tortoise. I would be fascinated - mainly because of this case but I admit partly for selfish reasons, because last week I found my nextdoor neighbour dead unexpectedly, and dialled 999, and felt I did it all wrong.

 

[cottonweaver]

What? B ugger off? How very dare you! :slap:

lol, no I'm equally geeky and want to see ur stuff on the statement analysis on the 101. Shades of Pistorius and emergency call handler protocols. :blushing:

 

[Tortoise]

Please do, Tortoise. I would be fascinated - mainly because of this case but I admit partly for selfish reasons, because last week I found my nextdoor neighbour dead unexpectedly, and dialled 999, and felt I did it all wrong.

Oh my goodness Moll.

Well I'm trusting you have no guilty knowledge, of course.

Did you apologise?

 

[Cherwell]

not to expect a greeting for the call handler

Goodness, that comes so automatically to me that I can't imagine myself not saying 'hello'.
I don't mean on a 999 call because you are always asked immediately which service you require, and then it is a matter of answering questions, but I would certainly start by saying Hello on a 101 call.

 

[hunkerdown]

Hunkerdown, just wondering if you can also confirm that IS did indeed have two operations/admissions for investigations?

Just one operation but two false starts before the actual op. First false start was on Feb 19th, second one March 3rd (lack of beds/surgeon etc) Op went ahead March 18th, he was in for a bit longer as had to go into critical care. IS was Home March 25th.


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[Alyce]

So we have two occasions where on days that Helen was due to go to see the solicitor, the appointment was cancelled. The first time by him, the 2nd time we don't know who cancelled.

Why did he want to stop her going to the solicitors?

I wonder, was Helen planning to do something other than have the sale money transferred into the joint account ?

And this was what IS had to prevent.

Once she was dead, he could then go along, with the papers, and have things proceed normally, sale actioned, money paid into joint account ( well so he thought of course )

 

[Squamous]

I would use 101 unless something was the sort of emergency where you need blue lights right that minute. So I would call 999 if one of my children was missing but 101 for my husband. I don't think a 999 call would be expected for a missing adult.

ETA If the NiJo story was real 999 would be totally appropriate.

 

[Moll]

(@Tortoise # 487) No, I don't think so!
But it was a ghastly experience, with the call handler making me do CPR on a dead body because I had sounded a bit uncertain in the beginning. I got into a panic and kept trying to follow her instructions, which was bonkers of me. I said 'He's dead, it's pointless' but I feared she'd think I was being unhelpful. In the end, what with the paramedics going to the wrong address and then insisting on going through the full resuscitation saga even though he was obviously dead (we have to follow our protocols), quite apart from my hideous experience, it all seemed a most appalling misuse of resources. I thought this was my fault, I should just have said no, he's dead. Also I have been haunted by it ever since (nine days ago).
So to get back to your question, seriously, although I have no guilty knowledge, I feel terribly guilty and think I probably should have asked for the police first.

 

[Really?]

I started reading Helen's blog last week. This morning I skipped o read her last years entries. Seems she sacrificed a lot for IS. From wanting to downsize....to not moving to London. Why oh why buy a house that size......all for him.

 

[Really?]

When we call 911 here in the states they ALL show up......first the cops......then the fire trucks....then come the paramedics.

 

[Squamous]

Gosh Moll, how traumatic for you. Sorry you had to endure that. I don't think you could have done anything more, you weren't to know that things would pan out that way.

 

[Alyce]

(@Tortoise # 487) No, I don't think so!
But it was a ghastly experience, with the call handler making me do CPR on a dead body because I had sounded a bit uncertain in the beginning. I got into a panic and kept trying to follow her instructions, which was bonkers of me. I said 'He's dead, it's pointless' but I feared she'd think I was being unhelpful. In the end, what with the paramedics going to the wrong address and then insisting on going through the full resuscitation saga even though he was obviously dead (we have to follow our protocols), quite apart from my hideous experience, it all seemed a most appalling misuse of resources. I thought this was my fault, I should just have said no, he's dead. Also I have been haunted by it ever since (nine days ago).
So to get back to your question, seriously, although I have no guilty knowledge, I feel terribly guilty and think I probably should have asked for the police first.

What an horrendous experience. I know they have their protocols but at the same time, a bit of consideration for you would have been good too. It's hardly an everyday experience for most of us and even if we have had to deal with a sudden death more than once, it is still traumatic enough without them making you feel like you should have done something more.

 

[Moll]

Gosh Moll, how traumatic for you. Sorry you had to endure that. I don't think you could have done anything more, you weren't to know that things would pan out that way.

Thanks, Squamous. Perhaps I couldn't have done much else - the thing is, a non-medic isn't in a position to pronounce death authoritatively so although I was sure he was dead (in my heart, as it were) I didn't feel I could say it flatly, and it had certainly happened in the previous couple of hours, I think. Dialling 999 is a bit different from 101, I suppose, as an experience.
Going back to IS, his call was astounding for the lack of emotion or urgency. That struck me again all the more forcefully - you'd think even simulating the situation would call up some emotion, given the true horror underneath.

 

[Moll]

Thanks, Alyce. I think I may write to them about certain points in it, to see if they couldn't improve the call-handler end. The neighbour was 85, and if I'd been his wife and that age (I wondered if the message had got through that I was his neighbour) it would have been worse.
My compliance was a bit mad, though. Perhaps underneath I was remembering IS's call and fearing she'd think I didn't care if I didn't do it!

 

[Alyce]

I think you're right again Tortoise re your thought that the timing for the murder was triggered by the sale of the flat.

IS gets the all clear on the morning of Tuesday April 5 ( thank you Hunkerdown for that confirmation )
Helen then goes off to the first ( and, sadly, her only ) Solicitors apppointment to set in motion the sale of the Gateshead flat.

Helen and IS then go off to lunch, to celebrate his all clear.
Over lunch Helen talks about what she plans to do with the sale money. And it is not what IS was expecting.
Perhaps she wants to put down a deposit for a place in London ? or give some money to the sons, to enable them to move out and find their own place ?
Whatever it was, it was not a plan that IS liked.

He possibly works on her for the rest of the week, trying to change her mind.
However, by Friday, she has a second appointment booked and has not changed her plan.
So she has to be drugged up and the appointment is cancelled.

The argument continues over the week end - Alex's evidence of Helen being stressed out on the Saturday. And, ironically, the gf being there, again, probably only firms up Helen's resolve re the sale money and her plans.

But then, another Solicitors appointment is set for the Monday - and by this time IS realises there is only one way to solve his problem.


eta it also explains to me why IS didnt go along with Helen to the Solicitors.
I had previously thought it made more sense for him to go with Helen, get identified to the solicitor, and then be ok for future dealings. I couldn't understand why he would kill Helen before all the paperwork was sorted and the money on the way to the joint account.
But if Helen's plans were to use the money in a way that IS did not agree with,then he would not have wanted to be at the solicitors with her. Because her plans would have been discussed by the solicitor and Helen, in front of IS, and he would not have been able to change the instruction later without it being queried.

( it's a bit like the cess pit - good place to hide a body - chat and the way he tried to pretend he had not heard this remark on the day JB visited IS and Helen )

 

[ColourPurple]

I wonder, was Helen planning to do something other than have the sale money transferred into the joint account ?

And this was what IS had to prevent.

Once she was dead, he could then go along, with the papers, and have things proceed normally, sale actioned, money paid into joint account ( well so he thought of course )

Maybe she was having second thoughts. The fact that after her death he still went ahead and took papers to the solicitors makes me think the whole solicitor situation is relevant. The appointment was already cancelled, he didn't have to pop in at all really