GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #6

[cottonweaver]

Don't know how other members feel but I'm pleased to know he can't get any legal advice this weekend and that it doesn't appear he will get any family support whatsoever. So, 48 hours to stew in there.

You can almost picture him:

- No real idea how his testimony has gone down, thinks he's done well but some creeping doubts.
- Rifling through his notes and papers, trying to track what he has already said, which bits he fluffed, which were the good answers to Trimmer and second guess how Trimmer will play it on Monday. ( He couldn't make notes whilst he was wafflling on for two days. )
- This weekend the p!ss takes, sarky comments and cat calls during the night from the other inmates who will have seen his lame stories on Sky news etc.

Looking to his immediate future, think we can guess that such a coward, a weak, weak man, who dislikes confrontation and is only capable of controlling the vulnerable & gullible, is going to find it very tough inside, in whichever prison he is eventually moved to. He's with the bottom of the pile amongst the inmate hierarchy.

No he has no remorse but I think the stuff that will really keep him awake at night though is the loss of her estate, the house, the prizes that slipped through his fingers and the crumbling of all those selfish plans he will have previously fantasised about for many months. Gosh, maybe he fantasised about his spending spree for years. ( From his sick point of view, he'll think he put everything on the line in his murderous gamble so he's going to be very cheesed off and disgruntled!)

 

[TheRisenBishop]

Don't know how other members feel but I'm pleased to know he can't get any legal advice this weekend and that it doesn't appear he will get any family support whatsoever. So, 48 hours to stew in there.

You can almost picture him:

- No real idea how his testimony has gone down, thinks he's done well but some creeping doubts.
- Rifling through his notes and papers, trying to track what he has already said, which bits he fluffed, which were the good answers to Trimmer and second guess how Trimmer will play it on Monday. ( He couldn't make notes whilst he was wafflling on for two days. )
- This weekend the p!ss takes, sarky comments and cat calls during the night from the other inmates who will have seen his lame stories on Sky news etc.

Looking to his immediate future, think we can guess that such a coward, a weak, weak man, who dislikes confrontation and is only capable of controlling the vulnerable & gullible, is going to find it very tough inside, in whichever prison he is eventually moved to. He's with the bottom of the pile amongst the inmate hierarchy.

No he has no remorse but I think the stuff that will really keep him awake at night though is the loss of her estate, the house, the prizes that slipped through his fingers and the crumbling of all those selfish plans he will have previously fantasised about for many months. Gosh, maybe he fantasised about his spending spree for years. ( From his sick point of view, he'll think he put everything on the line in his murderous gamble so he's going to be very cheesed off and disgruntled!)

TBH CW I'm more delighted that Trimmer will have chance to go over what Stewart has said under Cross and get into his mindset and use this knowledge to inform his Cross on Monday. He'll use the time to do more than play over and over inane, deluded, circular bat *advertiser censored* crazy fantasies that will be whirling around Stewart's dysfunctional, evil, twisted cerebrum.

 

[cottonweaver]

TBH CW I'm more delighted that Trimmer will have chance to go over what Stewart has said under Cross and get into his mindset and use this knowledge to inform his Cross on Monday. He'll use the time to do more than play over and over inane, deluded, circular bat *advertiser censored* crazy fantasies that will be whirling around Stewart's dysfunctional, evil, twisted cerebrum.

Yes, from Trimmer's P.of view , this 48 hours is a boon.

Imagine Prosecuting this case and then hearing IS spew all this new drivel for the very first time . I didn't know that was legally possible in the UK.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Before I have to sign out for a few hours I have a question. Do we know anything about IS's family? Does he have brothers and sisters. Are his mum and dad still alive? I have a feeling he has sisters and his parents are still alive but I cannot find anything to confirm this.

 

[cottonweaver]

Before I have to sign out for a few hours I have a question. Do we know anything about IS's family? Does he have brothers and sisters. Are his mum and dad still alive? I have a feeling he has sisters and his parents are still alive but I cannot find anything to confirm this.

Only child- am reliably informed. Both parents alive.

“He then threatened me again, saying I wouldn’t see Helen again.
“He said: ‘Walk to the end of harbour arm. Then come back and go home.’ So I did.”
“On the way home I made the decision to tell my mum and dad about Helen.
“I was considering telling my dad about Joe but I didn’t.
“I got to the house, told them Helen was missing, then went home.
“I just wanted to tell them and talk to someone. It was good to see them as well.

and

“I didn’t want police to take my phone away. It was my mum’s way to contact me, I let them download the stuff off there at least once.
“I carried on texting Helen, it was a communication trail.................“I was on the top of the cliff, I climbed over the railings.
“I thought about Jamie and Oliver and my mum and dad and Helen, and I wanted everything to stop.
“I also went to the railway line in Royston and watched the trains go by. I was thinking ‘I just want everything to stop’..

and

“When Nick was on the phone to me he was always asking what the plans were, I said we had a holiday planned.
“I said I was going to go to Sheffield with Jamie to watch the snooker.
“He told me to go to Broadstairs for a second time. I asked my mum and dad to go that time.
“The first time I was suicidal. I couldn’t see another reason he wanted me down in Broadstairs, other than to make it look like I was looking for Helen.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-ian-12578906

The man has no shame, happy to drag everyone into his fabrications.

 

[pinklilies]

Only child. Both parents alive.

How very greedy he is. No doubt he would have received inheritance from his parents, all to himself eventually.

Edited:spelling..

 

[cottonweaver]

How very greedy he his. No doubt he would have received inheritance from his parents, all to himself eventually.

You're right , hadn't thought of that but yes he will have.

I suppose that's the thing with greed, there's no such thing as "enough", so it provides it's own momentum, bit like an addiction?

 

[JudgeJudi]

I understand what you are saying DD, but in truth maybe he doesn`t need to be dynamic or flamboyant. I don`t know if that`s his character.

Obviously we are all frothing and outraged and shouting silently at the sheer lies and insults to our intelligence. But I guess this is a court room and I think IS is being given the chance to hang himself without anyone needing to interrupt the process. My guess is that if anything he said * could * be viewed as a genuine possibility - anything where it was felt that the jury *could* waver and feel an element of doubt creeping in, then that would be the time for Mr Trimmer to become more forceful/aggressive in his questioning and coming on hard to shatter any possible illusions. He is questioning a fair bit but he`s spoilt for choice and maybe doesn`t feel the need to examine every lie to the ninth degree. That`s my take anyway but I do understand what you are saying.

Michelle, you've stated the above perfectly. Courtrooms are not like those portrayed on TV.

Russell Flint was very low key but his hands were tied. First of all he would have taken instructions from IS. Later, a huge part of the prosecution's evidence would have been handed over to the defence. From this he would have formed the view that his client was guilty and I believe he would have advised him to plead guilty. Years can be deducted from a sentence if an early plea is made. He can't assist IS in any way to lie or mislead the court and he can't prevent him getting in the box and lying his head off, which of course is exactly what he's doing.

Trimmer on the other hand has no need for courtroom theatrics. He has what he needs to get a guilty verdict and every time IS opens his mouth he makes his situation so much worse. When closing argument takes place, all the strands will be tied together to form an iron rope.

Everyone, and that includes me, would have loved high drama, but to those who feel a bit let down or disappointed, all I can say is this - I don't believe there's one person on this thread who believes IS is innocent. Isn't that why we're here ... to see that justice is done, and it will be.

I believe he's going to get a very hefty sentence and, hopefully, spend the rest of his miserable life in prison.

 

[pinklilies]

You're right , hadn't thought of that but yes he will have.

I suppose that's the thing with greed, there's no such thing as "enough", so it provides it's own momentum, bit like an addiction?

Agree. No doubt there were a couple more vintage cars lined up for when he thought the misunderstood PoA would be coming into force.

 

[ZaZara]

Before I have to sign out for a few hours I have a question. Do we know anything about IS's family? Does he have brothers and sisters. Are his mum and dad still alive? I have a feeling he has sisters and his parents are still alive but I cannot find anything to confirm this.

His parents came to visit on April 8.
It is unclear if this visit was planned or if they happened to pass by.

Helen was fast asleep and did not hear a thing.
She may have survived that day because of the parents.

It is chilling to think that he planned the murder for months. It is even more chilling - I did not think that would be possible but a cold hand around the heart is nothing to it - to think of the weekend that followed. Walk with the dog, shepherd's pie. Watching tv with the boys. Biding his time till monday.

I never really thought about how one would feel, act after a thwarted murder attempt. Frustration? He did not show it. Remorse and relieved it did not happen? Not at all. Nervous anticipation? Nobody noticed anything out of order.

So I'm no longer surprised that after the murder, he had his wound attended to, went to a game and enjoyed takeaway.

Helen wondered if they had a real relationship 'because we never fight' ... a red flag if ever there was one. That relationship existed only with his outside persona. Inside IS, a cold and calculating individual is hiding and the rest of him is empty.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Only child... never had to learn about compromise and sharing with siblings, he would even be the sole heir to his parents' estate! What his elderly mother and father are making of all this, Heaven only knows. They must have been thrilled to bits when he got together with Helen, the sweet, wealthy, widowed author, and she bought the mansion with swimming pool for him and his (adult) 'boys', close enough for them to visit regularly.

That their son went on to destroy Helen, and ultimately himself, and shatter the golden future married life that was his for the taking, is a mystery that will no doubt haunt them for the rest of their days.

The exact method by which he dispatched Helen will always be debated - it's doubtful he'll ever tell. But for me, the big clue is the pillowcase. He decided over the weekend that Monday would be the day he finally took action.

I imagine her sending those chatty wedding emails at her desk that morning, while IS lurked around the house, like a cobra ready to strike. He had drugged her that morning with a double dose of Zopiclone, hidden in the supplements he brought to her with her first cup of tea. He knew she wouldn't be awake for long. She got increasingly drowsy as she sat at the keyboard and by late morning could hardly keep her eyes open. "Go and have a nap love", he told her. "I'll keep an eye on Boris". And off she went to bed.

Cottonweaver is right, he's a coward. He wouldn't have wanted a fight with Helen, and nor would he have wanted to see her face, as he was doing the evil deed. It seems pretty clear to me he smothered her with a pillow as she was in a deep sleep in bed. This explains why bedding features so much in the evidence: The pillowcase in the cesspit, the duvet at the tip, the cleaner being told not to make the bed and puzzling over the disappearance of the green bedspread (I wonder if anyone can check his story that the green bedspread is still among his belongings? On second thoughts, why bother!)

Another poster picked up on the fact he mentioned he kept stopping en route to Broadstairs later that week. It's another clear example of him fabricating a story to fit the known facts. He no doubt stopped en route to dump evidence - probably Helen's coat, wellies and dog lead, which he had originally told police were missing. He knew his mobile will have been picked up at his various stop offs, so has to give an explanation.

He has single handedly destroyed everything that was good in his life - Helen, his relationships with his sons and parents, the good standing he enjoyed in the community. And he's lost all the glittering prizes he had lined up too (most people can only dream of a lottery win to achieve the lifestyle he enjoyed). I wonder if he himself knows why he did it?

It's a mystery to any rational, decent person what he stood to gain from this murder!

 

[JudgeJudi]

The Solicitors evidence has always irritated me. Either we didnt hear all of it ( very likely ) or they dont seem to keep very accurate records. The ( former ) receptionist/secretary didnt seem to have very good recall of when IS was there.
It would be very useful to know who made that call.

Yes, I thought it was vague too. However, solicitors' offices receive many calls a day and there's no reason why the receptionist would remember such an innocuous call, especially as Helen had only attended the office on one prior occasion. I'd be more than a little shocked if there wasn't a written record of the call in the office.

I have a strong suspicion IS made the call.

 

[pinklilies]

On the itv news last night it was reported something on the lines that the judge had said it had been IS intention for this to happen on the Friday before but his plans had been thwarted due to his parents calling round unexpectedly. I've never heard what time their visit was but, if this was the case and they had called a little later than they did, he could have been caught in the act.

 

[cottonweaver]

On the coward thing - it wasn't my idea - it was that poisoner profile stuff I googled. Those experts said it's a key motif.

Apparently secrecy, the planning etc. they get off on that too.

Greed and greed fantasies have to be a feature here ( see pink lillies post on previous page)

bet he was wistfully imagining his life with total freedom to spend her money however he fancied. ( We must have all idly imagined how we might spend a big lottery win, so imagine if that kind of fantasy is recurring alongside the jealousy and resentment. )

No more £ fantasies for this charlatan
- the inevitable status-holidays or crappy cruises IDK
- classic sports cars as per pinklillies, ( he was making room by getting rid of the Fiat already)
- unfettered tinkering on his new blog and hobbies
- flogging off Broadstairs and buying a holiday home later on down the line.
- impressing the odd younger woman even though I doubt women are really his big thing,
- pretending he's a successful wealthy man in his own right in the resort hotel bars to other blokes or milking the sympathy of a handful of Royston locals...

He can wave bye bye to all that now. Helen was his luxury retirement plan and if he could stop the sons from moving out, even better! (Money as a means of control/obligation.)

All speculation of course, you know me, in for a penny in for a pound


some links to that poisoner profile stuff. stunted/spolied child was in there too.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...yston-11-April-2016-5&p=13126767#post13126767

 

[Moll]

pinklilies
Yes, though it must have been the prosecutor, not the judge, and I was looking back on what we had from the Cambridge News feed to see what was said...Trimmer certainly pressed IS on whether the parents' visit was unexpected but we didn't get that he said it in quite so clearcut a way, as far as I can see. A horrible thought, as others have said.

 

[wolfcub]

You're right , hadn't thought of that but yes he will have.

I suppose that's the thing with greed, there's no such thing as "enough", so it provides it's own momentum, bit like an addiction?

A bad thing to say, and I hope IS's parents don't read this forum, but wonder if he had any siblings who mysteriously died in infancy (doesn't sound like it but I was tempted to suspect it as one of those 'unknown way back things' when it all started...) certainly suits him anyway, to be an only child set to inherit everything (anyone read Josephine Tey, 'Brat Farrar' - you should!!!!)

 

[Cherwell]

How I envy you your weather. We've had the hottest summer I've ever known in Oz. It started on Boxing Day and is still going strong. I couldn't tell you how many days we've had over 40C. Tomorrow 41 and the next day 44. It will probably be our hottest summer on record. If we're lucky we'll have a couple of cloudy days and if we're really lucky we'll get a day of good rain. I hate the heat.

Enjoy your walk with your little doggie.

Same here, JJ, 37C (98F) at 4:00pm. Far too hot for my little doggie to have her walk. Instead, she'll take a dip in her wading pool! If only I could fit in too!

That would be way too hot for us too! Bet you don't have ankle-deep sticky mud everywhere though! Horrid when we're out and horrid indoors too as it attaches itself to dog (small dog - low undercarriage!), dries and falls off all over the house :gaah:

 

[BlueMosaic]

You're right , hadn't thought of that but yes he will have.

I suppose that's the thing with greed, there's no such thing as "enough", so it provides it's own momentum, bit like an addiction?

I've just listened to Trimmer's "The Attraction of Wealth" (which has been mentioned by other WebSleuthers )whilst doing some emailing and note updating. If I was paying attention, he reminds his audience that whoever loves money never has enough-nothing new, but such a picture of IS.

 

[Alyce]

Just a point re Helen sleeping and the parents visits.

From Eileen Bailey's evidence

The last one she phoned me up a lunch time and was very anxious, saying she’d just slept for five hours. I said Helen, you must have needed it because of all the stress. And she said ‘what, after a good night’s sleep?’ The conversation was at 1pm.
“She fell asleep in bed. She said she’d had her two poached eggs in the morning, she’d taken Boris out as usual, and then she’d come back.
“What worried her most was that Ian’s parents had come round and she was concerned about what they would think about her being asleep in bed. I said that didn’t matter, but I would have expected Boris to bark. Ian said Boris didn’t bark.”

The conversation when she told me she’d slept for five hours was the previous Monday before she disappeared (April 4).

She said when Helen fell asleep for five hours, this was the week before she went missing (April 4, 2016).



So from the above, it seems the incident when Helen slept for 5 hours and IS parents came round was prior to Monday April 4.
Am guessing this takes it back to at least Friday April 1 as I doubt he would try drugging over a week end.




There is also IS evidence, from earlier this week re another parents visit and Helen sleeping , again.
This visit must be Friday be April 8 as we know the solicitors appointment was cancelled on that day.

Stewart is talking about when he phoned the solicitors on Helen’s behalf and cancelled an appointment for her.
Stewart: “Helen was tired, she curled up and went to sleep with Boris. I phoned and cancelled her appointment.
“My mum and dad came round for a coffee, but Helen was asleep.”

 

[Cherwell]

Indeed-unless constantly misquoted, the "Me and Helen..." "Her and her friend..." type phrases from a man with his pretensions add to the insult.

True, but grammatical standards have plummeted in recent years. And almost everyone seems to misuse the reflexive pronoun nowadays:
"Myself and my friend went shopping" :gaah:

They wouldn't say "Myself went shopping", they would say "I went shopping" so why is it so hard to say "My friend and I went shopping"?

This bugs me enormously because it is now so prevalent that people genuinely think it's correct :banghead: