GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #7

[cottonweaver]

Risen Bishop

Is this some kind of ( subconscious ) narcissistic injury?

IS had previously mentioned a neighbour who he'd had a row with and maybe Joe is some poor guy he lost a bowls match to?

 

[TheRisenBishop]

I'm dying to know what Deus Ex Machina type stunt the defense counsel is going to pull to counter the Nick and Joe spectacular. Surely, it can't be the casts of Carry On... and Allo, Allo doing an improv ensemble?

 

[Tortoise]

[FONT=&amp]
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12595743
14:12[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Trial restarts after lunch break

The case has now been called back on and jurors are being called into the court room. Stewart has resumed his place in the witness box. Prosecutor Stuart Trimmer continues his cross examination.
T: We suggest Joe and Nick don’t exist and are a figment of your imagination?
S: You’re wrong
T: You ran with plan one, saying to the whole world, that you last saw Helen on April 11 and she’d gone on her own for space and time to Broadstairs, and you wanted her back forever. Plan two is that Joe and Nick actually existed and they’d got her. Plan one failed when you found out Helen was dead.
S: No, that’s not true
T: You had to keep a whole raft of detail in your head for dealing with this, didn’t you?
S: Yes
T: When telling the truth you merely have to recall what the truth is. If you’re lying and you suggest you are, you have to remember what lies you told previously so you don’t trip up.
S: I don’t quite follow.
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[Tortoise]

[FONT=&amp]http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12595743
14:14[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Stewart said he knew people called Nick and Joe from Bassingbourn

T: Nick and Joe are modelled on people you know. You know some people called Nick and Joe from your time in Bassingbourn.
S: I do know people called Nick and Joe from Bassingbourn yes
T: Do you know someone called Joe Cippullo? He is Italian.
S: He’s a bowler, I bowled with him in the past
T: Nick Cook?
S: Yes I know someone by that name too.
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[neteditor]

Oh yes, much better timing to have Nick and Joe walk in when IS is on the stand. His face must have been a picture! Smart move by Mr Trimmer and like the best courtroom moments, pure theatre!

I honestly don't think it was a "move" as such. The legal matters adjournment tells me that this was not planned. The prosecution would have to ask the judge whether they could be brought into court, given this is the defence phase and they are prosecution witnesses. The judge has to decide if any late evidence is admissable after hearing submissions from both sides.

So this also tells me that Nick and Joe have only just surfaced. Being (ex)friends of IS, I imagine they've been following the trial and have been thinking hang on a minute this idiot is describing us. Maybe even worrying that he is actually blaming them. So they've contacted the police over the weekend.

The police would likely only be able to brief the CPS this morning. There will have been a bit of craziness behind the scenes I bet. Prosecution counsel will have asked the judge for the adjournment at the point that he was first able to do so. So all of this has happened in a rush this morning.

I've only seen this sort of madness a couple of times when I was court reporting. It's really thrilling when it happens though.

 

[Tortoise]

[FONT=&amp]http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12595743
14:17[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Stewart denies using the men as part of the story he 'made up'

T: These people are people well known to you aren’t they?
S: Yes
T: Joe Cippullo is an Italian, he has short grey hair, about 5 foot 6 in height. S: Yes
T: Nick is much taller
T: Can you think of any reason why somebody listening to these description should have these men in mind?
S: No
T: They’re known to your family aren’t they?
S: Yes. These men haven’t crossed my mind for months. Nick, last Christmas and Joe, long before that. I haven’t seen Joe for six years, maybe more.
T: These are people from your time in Bassingbourn?
S: Yes
T: And when you made up this tale are they part of the images you made up?
S: No not at all


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[neteditor]

Risen Bishop

Is this some kind of ( subconscious ) narcissistic injury?

IS had previously mentioned a neighbour who he'd had a row with and maybe Joe is some poor guy he lost a bowls match to?

IIRC that was with a new neighbour in Royston?

 

[neteditor]

[video=twitter;831145443828576257]https://twitter.com/katebradbrook/status/831145443828576257[/video]

 

[JudgeJudi]

Kate Bradbrook ‏@katebradbrook · 2m2 minutes ago

#helenbailey Ian Stewart asked why he didn't tell police truth on arrest "I was protecting Helen and Boris" @BBCLookEast

 

[cottonweaver]

oh dear ...does this mean what I'm thinking it does?

: Can you think of any reason why somebody listening to these description should have these men in mind?
S: No
T: They’re known to your family aren’t they?

in which case - oops!

 

[Tortoise]

hang on deja vu?

 

[Tortoise]

oops they've disappeared again - those were repeats of earlier

 

[neteditor]

Looks like Tara is resending the earlier testimony from before lunch?

 

[Tortoise]

[FONT=&amp]http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12595743

14:25[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Solicitor advised Stewart not to comment

Trimmer: We’ve got to your arrest. We’ve seen the contrast in your attitude now after your arrest. During interviews at your home you were happy to speak, but now you were not
S: Yes
T: You chose to say no comment or sit there quietly
S: Yes, I did
T: You understood what the caution is about?
S: Yes, it’s not difficult to understand You had it explained to you that if you didn’t say then, what you later said in court, the jury may ask why. You didn’t say anything about Nick or Joe in these interviews?
S: No, my solicitor advised me not to comment
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[Tortoise]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12595743

[FONT=&quot]14:26[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Mention of Nick and Joe was 'completely different'[/h]T: The first time you said to anybody about Nick and Joe was in December?
S: Yes
T: This is a change in your account isn’t it? Completely different.
S: Yes
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[cottonweaver]

IIRC that was with a new neighbour in Royston?

He had mentioned to cops that he & HB had had a row with a neighbour once they had moved to H.Lodge. Naturally I wouldn't rely on a word he says but this came up. ( It looks like the real N&J are from Bassingbourn though. )

 

[pinklilies]

Risen Bishop

Is this some kind of ( subconscious ) narcissistic injury?

IS had previously mentioned a neighbour who he'd had a row with and maybe Joe is some poor guy he lost a bowls match to?

Maybe they were just more successful men than him. Achieved by their own merit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12595743

[FONT=&quot]14:28[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Stewart had planned to tell police about kidnap[/h]T: Jurors will want to know exactly how your mind was working. What is it you felt you couldn’t tell the police? S: I couldn’t tell them about Joe and Nick, and all the things that happened
T: What would happen if now [after your arrest] you told police Helen had been kidnapped?
S: My plan was to tell them but they told me they wouldn’t talk to me. In my mind I was going to tell them everything. I thought ‘if Helen’s dead they might as well know everything’.
T: What changed?
S: Time passed, and I took the advice of my solicitor not to say anything. The mannerisms of the police didn’t ring true
T: By this point you had been arrested for murder. What had changed your thinking to the point where you were going to tell them?
S: It wasn’t a clear cut decision at all, it wasn’t a yes or no
T: Why when you were sitting in an interview room with experienced major crime unit officers did you not tell the truth?
S: I’ve already told you that - time passed and my solicitor said to say nothing
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[ColourPurple]

I honestly don't think it was a "move" as such. The legal matters adjournment tells me that this was not planned. The prosecution would have to ask the judge whether they could be brought into court, given this is the defence phase and they are prosecution witnesses. The judge has to decide if any late evidence is admissable after hearing submissions from both sides.

So this also tells me that Nick and Joe have only just surfaced. Being (ex)friends of IS, I imagine they've been following the trial and have been thinking hang on a minute this idiot is describing us. Maybe even worrying that he is actually blaming them. So they've contacted the police over the weekend.

The police would likely only be able to brief the CPS this morning. There will have been a bit of craziness behind the scenes I bet. Prosecution counsel will have asked the judge for the adjournment at the point that he was first able to do so. So all of this has happened in a rush this morning.

I've only seen this sort of madness a couple of times when I was court reporting. It's really thrilling when it happens though.

They mentioned that the real Joe & Nick were known to IS's family so it might even be a member of his own family that have listened to his descriptions of the kidnappers in court and thought hang on a minute...

 

[Tortoise]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12595743

[FONT=&quot]14:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Stewart feared Helen Bailey would be killed[/h]T: What did you think would happen to Helen if you told police she had been kidnapped?
S: I thought she would be killed
T: Did you really think police were immediately going to advertise the fact that you said that?
S: I didn’t know what police were going to do. My mind was thinking many things during those two and a half days or whatever
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