UK - Huge fire rips through Grenfell Tower, Latimer Road, White City, London, June 2017

[SilkySifaka]

So how the heck did that stuff ignite from inside the building with the concrete fabric of the building being between the kitchen and the insulation? Also, reading the info Ms.M has posted (thank you-very informative) , it appears to be the celotex insulation giving off the toxic cyanide gas not the polyethylene core in the cladding or does that produce cyanide too when it burns?

Open windows I think I heeardv a firefighter say


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[Shiressleuth]

Open windows I think I heeardv a firefighter say


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But there should be no way the gap, the insulation or cladding is at all accessable from the windows for fire to be able to get into the cavity like that. They hopefully will get to the heart of the problem.

 

[Ellmau]

"A 'resentful' Kensington resident says she plans to move out of her private block if survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire are re-housed there.

The woman, known only as Donna, shocked LBC radio host Shelagh Fogarty when she complained that 250 people who lost their homes in the fire in west London last week will not pay rent when they move into the 68 homes bought by the City of London Corporation at a luxury £2billion apartment block in Kensington Row.

Donna cited her high council tax and her service charge bill of £15,500 - before saying she would resent people who would not be expected to pay to live there.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dent-away-Grenfell-victims.html#ixzz4krLVslTO

Really, what a stupid woman.

A, the flats the Grenfell residents will be living in were ALWAYS earmarked for some kind of social housing, and if she didn't know that when she bought then she should have done;
and B , they will be paying rent, even if they get housing benefit to cover it.

 

[Ellmau]

Open windows I think I heeardv a firefighter say

I wondered if that, and the hot weather, might affect the fireproofness of the 'safe concrete boxes', regardless of issues with the cladding.

 

[Ellmau]

Four more victims have been formally identified, but will not be publicly named at the requests of their families.

Police are still trying to get names of possible victims:

She said she wanted to hear about anyone who was in the tower, whether or not they were meant to be in the building.

She said: "I do not want there to be any victims of this tragedy that we do not know about.

"Our priority is to understand who was in Grenfell Tower. We are not interested in people's reasons for being in Grenfell Tower."

She said she was concerned they did "not have the complete picture" and reassured people not to be nervous about contacting them.

There may well be people who no one has contacted us about - who they know were in the building or have close links to Grenfell Tower.

"The Home Office has assured us that they are not interested in people's immigration status and we are not interested in looking at that.

"What we are interested in is making sure that we know who is missing and we take every possible step to establish if they are safe and well."

Initial tests indicate the insulation was worse than the cladding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40380584

 

[gregjrichards]

The evacuation of 800 residents in Camden tonight has been chaotic residents are not happy from the live reports on sky news U.K.

 

[gregjrichards]

"A shocking video shows how a British-style plastic-backed fridge freezer can go up in flames in just 55 second, following the devastating Grenfell Tower disaster.
The footage displays how the blaze does not spread in US metal backed models, with the fire staying far more contained.

It was shared by the London Fire Brigade back in February as they lobbied for all new refrigerator and freezers to have a fully fire retardant backing as standard."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ritish-style-fridge-flames.html#ixzz4ksSPgOJg

This is another scandal why are fridges and freezers not fire retardant at the back?

 

[matou]

Is a fridge the reason for the fire?

 

[Elainera]

Is a fridge the reason for the fire?

That's how it looks at the moment. It apparently spread from the burning fridge through an open window onto the cladding outside the building.

 

[MsMarple]

The evacuation of 800 residents in Camden tonight has been chaotic residents are not happy from the live reports on sky news U.K.

After reading about efforts to find housing for the Grenfell Tower residents and how some have been moved around from place to place, I'm hard pressed to understand exactly how the government is now going to find housing for 800 additional residents.

Warning! The following is mildly graphic!

Anyway, something that also left me scratching my head was statements that some of the victims may never be identified (or even located!) because of the intensity of the fire and also the report that "every complete body has been removed." I found some information that may apply in this case from a website that explained that "The devastating fire that struck a high-rise tower in London may have been so powerful that it destroyed much of the DNA evidence needed to identify its victims."

"When you have a fire that takes hold like that, that is literally an inferno. You get a lot of fragmentation of bodies, charring of bones and sometimes all that's left is ash," said Peter Vanezis, a professor of forensic medical sciences at Queen Mary University in London.

He said the temperature of the blaze at Grenfell Tower was comparable to a cremation.

Cremation temperatures range around 1400 degrees F so if that's true then the fire was incredibly hot. Looking at the interior photos, in particular the ones showing bathrooms I noticed that many copper and brass fittings, which melt at even higher temperatures appear to be missing. Pipes that I assume are made of iron were not melted. So is it possible the fire burned at that intensity? I'm curious because I read that high rise fires typically burn at about 1,000 to 1200 degrees F.

This is all conjecture on my part as a non-professional so please take my speculation and questions with a grain of salt. I could just be overthinking and none of this may have any bearing on the fire.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4633414/Police-fear-Grenfell-victims-never-identified.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...12026319da7_story.html?utm_term=.25e82eed90f6
https://www.forensicmag.com/news/20...dna-needed-id-victims?cmpid=horizontalcontent
https://skysaver.com/blog/how-hot-is-fire/

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think they will be able to get dna and dental identification. However if there were any individuals in the building undocumented that would be more difficult. It will be a slow process as with any unidentified body. The documented tenants should be able to be identified I would think. I agree that as pipes seem to still be in situ then it cannot have been as high as the melting point of those metals.
Ps. Approx melting points ºC
Copper 1000
Iron 1500

 

[Ellmau]

After reading about efforts to find housing for the Grenfell Tower residents and how some have been moved around from place to place, I'm hard pressed to understand exactly how the government is now going to find housing for 800 additional residents.

The council has secured 270 hotel rooms so far. Emergency accommodation was set up at Swiss Cottage leisure centre and at the Camden Centre in King's Cross.

"We're encouraging all residents to stay with friends and family if they can, otherwise we'll provide accommodation," the council said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40389148

I've seen reports that the fire reached 1000C.

 

[Ellmau]

Arrangements for distribution of the charity collections for the victims: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ll-fire-receive-20000-family-member-has-died/

The Charity Commission has announced, in a first phase of funding, an initial payment of £20,000 will be given to the families of each person who has died or is declared missing presumed dead.

Up to £10,000 will also be available for immediate distribution to each person seriously injured and requiring hospital treatment.

Another £10,000 will also be given to every family from Grenfell as a "fresh start" grant as they move into new permanent accommodation.

[Red Cross] Chief executive Michael Adamson said: "No amount of money can take away the pain of the past eight days, but for people who have lost everything we hope it will help towards rebuilding their lives."

Gerald Oppenheim, chair of the London Emergencies Trust (LET), said the aim is to make sure the money donated is distributed in a timely fashion and with compassion.

"Anyone who qualifies for a LET award, and who makes a valid claim, will be paid irrespective of nationality, circumstance or any other factor," he added.

 

[CARIIS]

I would not leave -- we don't know the cause of ignition - they can remove the panels while Lady and I are inside
IMO just another thing govt does well kneee jerk after they messed up earlier



its not like some 100 year old hotel does not have its inherent fire risks

The deal is the fire dept can't guarnantee their safety -- I don't have a fire dept money back guarantee here!

WOuld you leave?

 

[Ironside]

After reading about efforts to find housing for the Grenfell Tower residents and how some have been moved around from place to place, I'm hard pressed to understand exactly how the government is now going to find housing for 800 additional residents.

Warning! The following is mildly graphic!

Anyway, something that also left me scratching my head was statements that some of the victims may never be identified (or even located!) because of the intensity of the fire and also the report that "every complete body has been removed." I found some information that may apply in this case from a website that explained that "The devastating fire that struck a high-rise tower in London may have been so powerful that it destroyed much of the DNA evidence needed to identify its victims."



Cremation temperatures range around 1400 degrees F so if that's true then the fire was incredibly hot. Looking at the interior photos, in particular the ones showing bathrooms I noticed that many copper and brass fittings, which melt at even higher temperatures appear to be missing. Pipes that I assume are made of iron were not melted. So is it possible the fire burned at that intensity? I'm curious because I read that high rise fires typically burn at about 1,000 to 1200 degrees F.

This is all conjecture on my part as a non-professional so please take my speculation and questions with a grain of salt. I could just be overthinking and none of this may have any bearing on the fire.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4633414/Police-fear-Grenfell-victims-never-identified.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...12026319da7_story.html?utm_term=.25e82eed90f6
https://www.forensicmag.com/news/20...dna-needed-id-victims?cmpid=horizontalcontent
https://skysaver.com/blog/how-hot-is-fire/

The fire service could only release photos of flats they knew everyone got out safe from. There may be much worse fire damage that they couldn't show photos of.

 

[gregjrichards]

There is another large fire at a block of flats in Turin Street, Bethnal Green happening now. I have started a thread. I hope it isn't another tragedy.

 

[gregjrichards]

Sky News U.K 60 high rise buildings in 25 local authorities have failed fire cladding safety tests. All 60 samples sent in so far have failed the test.

This is a major scandal I wonder what the final number is going to be.

 

[cottonweaver]

Hi all, I didn't realise there was a thread on Grenfell on WS. Long time since I've visited - this new re-design is a surprise.

Have been following this horrific catastrophe in detail and have a lot of links from sleuthing around but IDK how active this thread is now and whether folk would be interested>

 

[SilkySifaka]

I'm impressed with the British taking this so seriously doing tests evacuating people. Odds are another catastrophe wouldn't happen so soon but why take the chance. Get rid of the cladding now.


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[Elainera]

Sky News U.K 60 high rise buildings in 25 local authorities have failed fire cladding safety tests. All 60 samples sent in so far have failed the test.

This is a major scandal I wonder what the final number is going to be.

I hope every country in the world is listening and examining their own situation regarding this or other flammable cladding, and fire safety in general.