UK - Huge fire rips through Grenfell Tower, Latimer Road, White City, London, June 2017

[Ellmau]

Definitely not a reliable source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shrimpton

 

[Ironside]

There is a claim that the fridge which was the source of the fire was being used to store the highly unstable explosive TATP.

http://www.m2voice.com/british-judge-grenfell-tower-fire-caused-isis-bomb-media-blackout/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

The media source reporting the claim does not look exactly credible, but it's interesting nonetheless - not least because there doesn't seem to be a real explanation for the fridge catching fire (it's not a known problem with Hotpoint fridges and no recall has been put in place for the model concerned) and the Ethiopian man who had been living in the flat where the fire started has done a runner.

Lots of citation needed for that article. I'd take it with a massive bucket of salt. Until any of these claims are on MSM I consider it to be just the ramblings of a loon with an agenda.

Where are you getting that the Ethiopian man has done a runner? Please link.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Lots of citation needed for that article. I'd take it with a massive bucket of salt. Until any of these claims are on MSM I consider it to be just the ramblings of a loon with an agenda.

Very likely, as the link provided by Ellmau shows.

Where are you getting that the Ethiopian man has done a runner? Please link.

There were links early in the thread. If you recall, several of his neighbours reported that he already had a suitcase packed when he alerted them to the fire, and it was suggested that this delay in alerting other tenants and in calling the fire brigade allowed the fire to spread to the outside of the building as it did. He then disappeared and was tracked down by journalists later.

 

[Ironside]

Very likely, as the link provided by Ellmau shows.



There were links early in the thread. If you recall, several of his neighbours reported that he already had a suitcase packed when he alerted them to the fire, and it was suggested that this delay in alerting other tenants and in calling the fire brigade allowed the fire to spread to the outside of the building as it did. He then disappeared and was tracked down by journalists later.

I thought you meant he fled recently. I know the media tracked him down in the first few days.

If he was a terrorist he would hardly pack a bag would he?

 

[Jackalyn]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/82...ge-freezer-customers-complained-police-latest

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/20/firef...k-to-save-lives-during-grenfell-fire-6721155/

If you were a terrorist you would hardly ring the fire brigade. It is more likely the Ethiopian man is in shock and afraid that someone will falsely accuse him of terrorism and take the law into their own hands and is in hiding or being kept safely hidden for that reason.

He might have packed a bag as he realised he could not stay in the flat after a fire?

The last thing we need is to add terrorism into the mix unless there is a clear indication this is what it was and surely the firemen would have enough knowledge to know the kind of fire they had to deal with inside the Ethiopian man's flat.

 

[gregjrichards]

"Exhausted and traumatised firefighters who witnessed the horrors of Grenfell Tower are being offered free holidays across the UK and Europe by strangers.

Many who battled the inferno and fought to save the hundreds trapped in the west London tower block have been 'utterly broken', one wife of a man involved has said."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...renfell-Tower-firefighters.html#ixzz4m2aSXs1A

 

[MelmothTheLost]

If he was a terrorist he would hardly pack a bag would he?

IF he was a terrorist, or simply an illegal immigrant, he might have kept a bag packed all the time in case of having to do a midnight flit.

As in all fast-moving stories, this one has seen quite a few early claims debunked at new information comes out. One element which has become stronger over the past couple of weeks is the extent of illegal subletting in the tower. It wouldn't surprise me if the illegal subtenants haven't themselves been illegally subletting, since the authorities now say they may never know who or how many died in the fire.

 

[Ellmau]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/82...ge-freezer-customers-complained-police-latest

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/20/firef...k-to-save-lives-during-grenfell-fire-6721155/

If you were a terrorist you would hardly ring the fire brigade. It is more likely the Ethiopian man is in shock and afraid that someone will falsely accuse him of terrorism and take the law into their own hands and is in hiding or being kept safely hidden for that reason.

He might have packed a bag as he realised he could not stay in the flat after a fire?

The last thing we need is to add terrorism into the mix unless there is a clear indication this is what it was and surely the firemen would have enough knowledge to know the kind of fire they had to deal with inside the Ethiopian man's flat.

He could even just be scared of being blamed for starting the fire.

 

[Ellmau]

Where any form of public procurement is involved, there is a requirement for the commissioning body to accept the lowest tender unless there are very specific reasons why a more expensive tender should be preferred. This is a basic requirement to prevent tendering contractors inflating their tender prices.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s it was quite common for corrupt local council officials to be hand in glove with corrupt contractors to inflate the price of tenders, with the official getting a backhander for preferring the contractor's bid. The most famous case was the collusion between architect John Poulson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poulson) and the Leader of Newcastle City Council, T Dan Smith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Dan_Smith), in the early 1970s - at more or less the time Grenfell Tower was being planned and built.

The requirement to generally accept the cheapest tender, all things being equal, is therefore intended to protect the taxpayer against corruption, but in this case it may well be the reason so many buildings are now failing fire inspections.

Yes: Compulsory Competitive Tendering. It was replaced by Best Value in 2000, which was supposed to reintroduce quality controls, but the post-2008 financial pressures on local authorities seems to have brought back a concern with economy at all costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_value

 

[Ellmau]

The Guardian has found evidence that the safer cladding was used only on the ground floor at Grenfell: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ified-by-architects-only-used-on-ground-floor

A leading fire safety expert has told the Guardian that fewer people might have died if the concrete panels had been extended upwards, although questions remain over whether the heavier material could have been fitted without requiring structural improvements to the original concrete frame of the tower in north Kensington, London.

“It would have saved lives,” said Arnold Tarling, a chartered surveyor at Hindwoods. “The fire may have scorched it and the insulation. It wouldn’t have spread over the whole of the building like it did.”

Flames could be seen spreading up the original columns in the blaze, which killed at least 80 people. The spread of the fire has been widely blamed on the cladding, which had a layer of plastic filler that was not fire retardant.

The glass reinforced concrete (GRC) panels that were used at the base of Grenfell were not flammable. GRC has been tested at the highest fire rating, of A1, and the panels have been used on luxury apartment complexes, including high rises.

Allegedly they saved £1m by not using it on the whole building.

 

[Ellmau]

The judge has met with survivors.

The cladding will be tested:

Earlier it emerged that cladding samples which failed safety tests in the wake of the fire will be subjected to further "large-scale" testing.

Experts will fix a complete cladding system to a 30ft-high (9m) demonstration wall and subject it to "a severe fire", the government said.

The new process will subject a demonstration wall to a "severe fire in a flat breaking out of a window" and aim to establish whether it will then spread up the outside wall.

It will also assess how different types of aluminium composite material (ACM) panels behave with different types of insulation in a fire, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40520596

 

[gregjrichards]

Insurers for the Grenfell Tower have predicted they will have to pay out £50 million over the disaster - double their original estimate.

Norwegian company Protector Forsikring, which provides property insurance to Kensington and Chelsea council, the authority that owned the building, originally calculated a claim of more than £25 million, with £20 million covering the building itself and the rest going to additional expenses such as alternative housing.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grenfell-tower-insurers-predict-theyll-10757327

 

[gregjrichards]

The judge has met with survivors.

The cladding will be tested:





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40520596

I will be surprised if he lasts long on the enquiry he was badly heckled when he met survivors. They do not feel he is suitable for the job.

 

[gregjrichards]

"Firefighters' high ladder did not appear at Grenfell Tower for 30 minutes and hoses were 'hampered by low pressure'.

An investigation has identified a series of failings that hampered the efforts of firefighters to tackle the horrific blaze and rescue the building's residents.

Firefighters say they experienced low water pressure, radio problems and critical equipment was either lacking or didn't arrive on scene before the fire got out of control.

BBC's Newsnight has learned that a so-called 'aerial' or high ladder did not arrive until more than half an hour after the first fire engines were dispatched at 00.55."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Grenfell-Tower-30-minutes.html#ixzz4mC7cESG8

 

[Ellmau]

"Firefighters' high ladder did not appear at Grenfell Tower for 30 minutes and hoses were 'hampered by low pressure'.

An investigation has identified a series of failings that hampered the efforts of firefighters to tackle the horrific blaze and rescue the building's residents.

Firefighters say they experienced low water pressure, radio problems and critical equipment was either lacking or didn't arrive on scene before the fire got out of control.

BBC's Newsnight has learned that a so-called 'aerial' or high ladder did not arrive until more than half an hour after the first fire engines were dispatched at 00.55."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Grenfell-Tower-30-minutes.html#ixzz4mC7cESG8

Those will be among the things the enquiry should consider as well as the buidling itself.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I will be surprised if he lasts long on the enquiry he was badly heckled when he met survivors. They do not feel he is suitable for the job.

I suspect there is no judge who would be acceptable to them.

Thinking about the planned enquiry a few years ago into historic claims of paedophilia, you will recall that has run into the sand because the government allowed those claiming to be victims to effectively veto three eminent judges. I'd be surprised if the authorities allowed that to happen again.

 

[Ellmau]

Although only 32 of the victims have been formally identfied so far, police are reasonably confident about these numbers:

The Metropolitan Police believe there were about 255 survivors from last month's fire at Grenfell Tower.

Police say "extensive investigations" led them to conclude 350 people should have been in the Kensington tower block on the night of the blaze on 14 June.

That night, 14 residents were not in the building, leaving at least 80 people dead or missing, the Met said.

Speaking after the briefing, Cdr Cundy denied claims from former residents and politicians that the number killed in the tragedy could be far higher than 80.

"We've been working tirelessly to ascertain how many people died in the fire," he said, describing the night as one where "the lives of so many changed forever".

Scotland Yard believes around 10 people managed to escape the tower "but for a number of different reasons" were not willing to come forward.

The criminal investigation will run separately from the judicial enquiry:

Cdr Cundy said the Met's investigations would "not be hampered in any way" by a separate judge-led public inquiry into the blaze.

"We are absolutely determined to do everything new can to identify what offences have been committed," he said.

"We will seize information for wherever it comes from."

Detectives said they were looking at "every aspect of fire safety" at Grenfell - including fire doors, exit routes and emergency procedures.

So far, 140 witnesses have been spoken to, with plans to interview the 650 firefighters and 300 police officers involved in the rescue operation, and all residents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40557126

 

[gregjrichards]

The Grenfell Tower fire probe could last years but the death toll is expected to remain at about 80, police revealed today.

Met Commander Stuart Cundy also refused to rule out manslaughter charges for those responsible, adding: “You can’t listen to the families and listen to the 999 calls and not want to hold people to account for a fire that should not have happened.”

Scotland Yard said the probe was the largest it had ever conducted outside terrorism and involved 60 firms, millions of pages of documents and hundreds of witnesses.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-probe-could-10772488

 

[gregjrichards]

"Footage from the search operation at Grenfell Tower shows the burnt out stairwell of the building where at least 80 people were killed four weeks ago today.

The video was released as police working at the building described the terrible lengths officers have to go to to find out who died in the building on June 14.

The footage shows the narrow stairway where many lost their lives as they tried to escape the inferno which engulfed the 24-storey building in under 30 minutes.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tage-inside-Grenfell-Tower.html#ixzz4mbsze771

 

[gregjrichards]

The woman heading the local response to the Grenfell Tower disaster has NEVER been inside one of the area's council tower blocks.

Not once, in 11 years on Kensington and Chelsea Council, has its new leader Elizabeth Campbell ventured into a high-rise in the borough.

The Tory made the astonishing confession today despite having served on the council Cabinet on and off since 2010 in one of the most divided boroughs in the country and canvassed voters in several elections.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/grenfell-towers-new-council-leader-10779769

This is no surprise.