UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[WiseOwl]

IMO it wasn't BG, and i am entitled to my own opinion.

As for the witnesses, the only person who did get a good look at the man leaving the scene of the crime was next-door neighbour RH. Despite your dismissal of him, he did get a decent look despite it being from an upstairs window - he was only feet away from him after all. He described the man of average height, thick set with a dark, thick mop of hair which reached his collar. He did not identify him as being BG, and did not pick him out at an ID parade.

So RH is the most believable witness as he actually saw this person he described leaving the scene of the crime, which is surely more valid than witnesses who may or may not have seen BG hanging around Gowan Avenue that morning.

 

[NeroHolmes]

IMO it wasn't BG, and i am entitled to my own opinion.

As for the witnesses, the only person who did get a good look at the man leaving the scene of the crime was next-door neighbour RH. Despite your dismissal of him, he did get a decent look despite it being from an upstairs window - he was only feet away from him after all. He described the man of average height, thick set with a dark, thick mop of hair which reached his collar. He did not identify him as being BG, and did not pick him out at an ID parade.

So RH is the most believable witness as he actually saw this person he described leaving the scene of the crime, which is surely more valid than witnesses who may or may not have seen BG hanging around Gowan Avenue that morning.

I also have your same opinion about BG, and I also think RH is the most important witness of this case.
A brief statement from RH can be found in the below article and IMHO can't stress enough the fact that he saw the man walking away, not running.

BBC NEWS | UK | Screams heard by Dando neighbour

news.bbc.co.uk

 

[WiseOwl]

I also have your same opinion about BG, and I also think RH is the most important witness of this case.
A brief statement from RH can be found in the below article and IMHO can't stress enough the fact that he saw the man walking away, not running.

BBC NEWS | UK | Screams heard by Dando neighbour

news.bbc.co.uk

Yes, no doubt about it, RH was the only witness who had a clear look at the man who was leaving Jill's garden that morning, he clearly describes the man that he saw walking away from the murder scene.

Out of interest, i found this article over the weekend from July 2013 about a man who claims he saw Jill confront someone outside her home that morning. I must admit i had not heard of this witness before:

Jill Dando murder witness comes forward to claim detectives IGNORED his evidence

Barry Lindsey says he was driving past the Crimewatch presenter’s home when he saw her looking terrified as her killer confronted her

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Markybug]

just wanted to add my thoughts re: Barry George. He had previous for attempted rape etc so if he was the shooter, why shoot her? He, a well built man, was stood behind her with a gun and she had her keys in her hand. He could have easily forced her into the house, attacked her and left. So my question is why didn’t he? Why did he shoot her in the head and then leave? If he was obsessed with her then it makes no sense to just shoot and leave.

As others have mentioned i believe he wanted to sexually assault her but accidentally shot her.

 

[Novosti]

Yes, no doubt about it, RH was the only witness who had a clear look at the man who was leaving Jill's garden that morning, he clearly describes the man that he saw walking away from the murder scene.

Out of interest, i found this article over the weekend from July 2013 about a man who claims he saw Jill confront someone outside her home that morning. I must admit i had not heard of this witness before:

Jill Dando murder witness comes forward to claim detectives IGNORED his evidence

Barry Lindsey says he was driving past the Crimewatch presenter’s home when he saw her looking terrified as her killer confronted her

www.mirror.co.uk

It obviously matters that RH didn't pick him out at the identity parade. But that aside, his description is pretty consistent with BG , even the physical resemblance to comedian Bob Mills is quite striking! Similarly the Barry Lindsey description - from a moving car some metres away - is on the surface pretty similar to BG too. The "Mediterranean" look could easily have been achieved by facial hair / stubble at a distance.

 

[WiseOwl]

It obviously matters that RH didn't pick him out at the identity parade. But that aside, his description is pretty consistent with BG , even the physical resemblance to comedian Bob Mills is quite striking! Similarly the Barry Lindsey description - from a moving car some metres away - is on the surface pretty similar to BG too. The "Mediterranean" look could easily have been achieved by facial hair / stubble at a distance.

The man who RH saw was clean shaven, no facial hair or stubble:

Dando trial update

Mr Hughes described the man as aged between 30 and 40 and of average height. He was thick set with a dark, thick mop of hair that reached to his collar.

"He had a full face with no facial hair," said Mr Hughes.

 

[sl77]

There doesn't have to be a very high number of suspects for someone else to have killed Jill.

Let's say Barry George is innocent. He hears there's been a shooting nearby and realises that he's going to be a suspect. He doesn't fancy spending another 48 hours in interrogation, like he had to in a previous local murder enquiry. So he panics and tries to create an alibi. He definitely doesn't want the police to find a gun in his flat, even though it's only a replica. He gets rid of the gun, but like the idiot he is, forgets about the photo of him playing SAS.

Is that a possible scenario? IIRC Barry George was questioned as a suspect in the Rachel Nickell investigation

This is literally what I suspect happened.

Or put it this way, I think the above is more likely than he pulls off the perfect (no evidence) murder and then........ visits a taxi rank to establish an alibi???

 

[Dave32]

Yes, no doubt about it, RH was the only witness who had a clear look at the man who was leaving Jill's garden that morning, he clearly describes the man that he saw walking away from the murder scene.

Out of interest, i found this article over the weekend from July 2013 about a man who claims he saw Jill confront someone outside her home that morning. I must admit i had not heard of this witness before:

Jill Dando murder witness comes forward to claim detectives IGNORED his evidence

Barry Lindsey says he was driving past the Crimewatch presenter’s home when he saw her looking terrified as her killer confronted her

www.mirror.co.uk

I'd not heard of this witness before either. But a couple of things don't seem right. I don't think anyone else reported a loud gunshot (including RH who was the closest), and he says the police visited him "a short time later" and I think Barry George only became a suspect months later.

 

[RichardKimble]

Make of it what you will.

Mohamed Al Fayed's security chief 'corrupted Jill Dando murder probe'

John MacNamara, who headed the Harrod's tycoon security operation, has been accused of plotting to pay the officer in return for confidential information about the BBC star's death.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[davidt]

I have just rewatched the Netflix series on this case. A couple of things stood out for me.

Firstly they say according to phone records Jill only told three people she was going there that day. I guess that doesn't preclude her having told others in person or of the possibility of a call being hacked. Her agent said she was only giving there to pick up some papers he'd faxed her, so not part of a regular routine either. There is brief mention of possible inside information but this doesn't seem to be explored in any detail.

Secondly, the police appear supremely confident Jill was not followed that day. The guy in charge of reviewing the CCTV footage goes as far as to say "we can categorically state Jill was not followed". If that is true there really seems only two realistic scenarios.

Someone was waiting outside her property on the off chance she may turn up or someone was waiting outside knowing she was going to turn up. I guess there's a third possibility that Jill was the victim of a random chance encounter, but that seems vanishingly unlikely to me.

I don't know how it would tie BG in to this unless he made a habit of waiting outside her property and regularly carried a gun. I'm still pretty confused what in the way of guns BG is known to have owned or had possession of at the time tbh. Is there anything in the way of established facts on this? Lots of speculation I know.

It was interesting to see that Jill's agent clearly believes BG had nothing to do with it.

 

[WestLondoner]

I guess there's a third possibility that Jill was the victim of a random chance encounter, but that seems vanishingly unlikely to me.

I don't know how it would tie BG in to this unless he made a habit of waiting outside her property and regularly carried a gun.

These two possibilities when taken together become a further possibility in themselves, do they not? BG did have form in hanging around celebrity homes while armed, and if it's he who was seen outside her house, it needn't follow that he had any idea she'd be there. It's entirely possible he was hanging around JD's house because it was her house. Their meeting in her front garden may have surprised both of them.

We don't actually know whether he was in the habit of carrying that gun around. He might well have been. Given that he's not all there in the IQ department, I don't think one can safely assume he only took it out when intending to use it.

 

[davidt]

These two possibilities when taken together become a further possibility in themselves, do they not? BG did have form in hanging around celebrity homes while armed, and if it's he who was seen outside her house, it needn't follow that he had any idea she'd be there. It's entirely possible he was hanging around JD's house because it was her house. Their meeting in her front garden may have surprised both of them.

We don't actually know whether he was in the habit of carrying that gun around. He might well have been. Given that he's not all there in the IQ department, I don't think one can safely assume he only took it out when intending to use it.

Yes that could have happened. I think many things would have had to fall in place for BG (or someone else) very conveniently. If he just happened to be hanging around Jill's property at the right time and just happened to have a gun with him on that day and Jill could park right outside her house in those few brief moments on a rare visit and everything fell in to place for him there and then. Of course if he routinely hung around her house and routinely carried a gun it's much more likely it was just a matter of time before he would come across her. If it was on the off chance then how dreadfully unlucky for Jill. Do we know for sure he had possession of a gun at the time?

 

[wtiger]

the only thing that BG is guily of in this case is being a bit of a tit!.....does anyone honestly believe he had the ability to actually do this?

 

[WestLondoner]

the only thing that BG is guily of in this case is being a bit of a tit!.....does anyone honestly believe he had the ability to actually do this?

Yes, actually.

First, he was an actual convicted sex offender who did jail time for attempted rape. AIUI that was an actual completed rape that he carried through but for whatever reason it wasn't possible to make that stick.

Second, he followed women around in the street and surreptitiously photographed them.

Third, he had been arrested lurking outside Diana's home dressed as a soldier with a rope and a knife. So he had form for following and assaulting women including celebrity women.

Fourth, he owned a gun, had been photographed with it and had illegally disposed of it. Instead of producing it to be checked against the murder weapon, or explaining why and how he had obtained and disposed of it, he instead lied about owning it. He had the opportunity in jail to make contacts with the sort of people who could have supplied an illegal firearm.

Fifth, he was actually criminally convicted. He got off because one piece of the evidence was undermined, but it was immaterial to the case against him. Had it never been presented in the first place he'd still have been convicted - which is why he didn't get any compensation when let off. There had been no obvious and grievous error of procedure or law.

The other reasons for thinking he did it are largely part of the sixth point above.

 

[CSIAngus]

the only thing that BG is guily of in this case is being a bit of a tit!.....does anyone honestly believe he had the ability to actually do this?

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Westchester76]

Yes, actually.

First, he was an actual convicted sex offender who did jail time for attempted rape. AIUI that was an actual completed rape that he carried through but for whatever reason it wasn't possible to make that stick.

Second, he followed women around in the street and surreptitiously photographed them.

Third, he had been arrested lurking outside Diana's home dressed as a soldier with a rope and a knife. So he had form for following and assaulting women including celebrity women.

Fourth, he owned a gun, had been photographed with it and had illegally disposed of it. Instead of producing it to be checked against the murder weapon, or explaining why and how he had obtained and disposed of it, he instead lied about owning it. He had the opportunity in jail to make contacts with the sort of people who could have supplied an illegal firearm.

Fifth, he was actually criminally convicted. He got off because one piece of the evidence was undermined, but it was immaterial to the case against him. Had it never been presented in the first place he'd still have been convicted - which is why he didn't get any compensation when let off. There had been no obvious and grievous error of procedure or law.

The other reasons for thinking he did it are largely part of the sixth point above.

The few eyewitnesses describe a smartly dressed man (not sure if it was a suit however). BG wasn't that. Of course the smartly dressed man may of been on the street for another reason, but had he been, he would of seen the incident and hasn't come forward.

 

[WestLondoner]

I'm wary of attaching too much weight to eyewitness descriptions like that. I've just walked through the kitchen to come out to the garden office. I said hello to my cleaner 2 minutes ago but already I couldn't tell you what she is wearing today.

 

[wtiger]

so..BG has gone from lurking outside a property dressed as a soldier with rope and a knife to being a totally undetected silent assassin in broad daylight?

he's either a quick learner or only responsible for one of these things imho

 

[WestLondoner]

so..BG has gone from lurking outside a property dressed as a soldier with rope and a knife to being a totally undetected silent assassin in broad daylight?

he's either a quick learner or only responsible for one of these things imho

Unless we know how an unemployed rapist with macho fantasies, an illegal gun and an IQ of 85 would normally spend his day, I don't think we can dismiss the possibility that the clown was @rsing around JD's property among others because he's weird, was amazed when she turned up, and shot her because he's a clumsy idiot. It seems entirely plausible to me.

 

[dotr]

Old but handy for info. link.
Bob Woffinden 6 Jul 2002

Shadow of doubt?

Last summer, when Barry George was convicted of killing Jill Dando, all other possible theories were discounted. But is one of them more credible than was originally thought? On the eve of George's appeal hearing, Bob Woffinden re-examines the evidence.

www.theguardian.com

''Two neighbours, Hughes and Geoffrey Upfill-Brown, saw the gunman making a hasty departure from the scene, although he slowed down when he realised that Upfill-Brown had noticed him. Hughes described a white, well-dressed man with dark hair and a solid build, wearing a dark, Barbour-type jacket. He thought that the man had a mobile phone. Upfill-Brown gave a similar description.''

''Having committed the murder, the gunman turned left, which necessitated walking the length of Gowan Avenue (the road in which Dando lived). It was broad daylight. The more obvious getaway route would have been to turn right. Nevertheless, no one definitely saw the gunman before the attack, and only these two witnesses definitely saw him after it.

There is one obvious way of fitting together these apparently baffling pieces of evidence. The gunman had an accomplice, and waited in a car for Dando to return, which would explain why he was not noticed beforehand. When she arrived at the house, he got out and the car was driven off by the accomplice in the direction it was facing. The gunman would then join him at a pre-arranged rendezvous nearby. Accordingly, even if he were spotted in Gowan Avenue, there would be no witness to connect him with a vehicle.''