GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #1

[Texas Mist]

I thought along the same lines but why would anyone risk going to her flat? Why not just dump all her stuff somewhere? Also her coat was at home. Would a murderer remove her coat and take it home or did she go somewhere warm with someone and remove it herself before being murdered?

Her dad, based on the state of the flat seems sure she was murdered there. I think that maybe she was just about to unwrap the pizza etc to go in the oven when she was attacked and used the pizza in a desperate attempt to protect herself. Because it touched the murderer he/she had to get rid of it. I don't think the murderer would have drunk from the bottle of cider but it could be that there is no dna on it at all. I wonder if she was wearing shoes.......

:Welcome1: Gem2626

 

[jigzy]

I find it all a little odd that the parents have said little, if nothing, of what Greg Reardon is going through - their statement mentioned two of their daughter's friends - but not Greg - weird methinks.
Also strange that throughout this the media mostly reported on the parents. Usually the partner of a victim is more visible and vocal, giving statements to the press. Even when the parents and GR visited the scene it was the parents who were announced by the live news channels - it was as if they had missed the fact that GR was there at first.
jmo

 

[krista]

It's interesting that Laurence Penney AKA Lorp was in France around the same time as CJ. If they went together that's even more interesting. I'm having a hard time envisioning a motive for CJ and an accomplice to have done this.

About the statement from the family : it is so poignant. I noticed that in their statement they never once referenced Jo's BF.... Not in any context. Although they did name and thank a couple of Jo's close friends...

All JMO

I'm not so sure I read it like they aren't acknowledging Greg. For some reason, I read it as though they are INCLUDING Greg in with the 'family'. I don't think they SEE him as family, just that they are collectively thanking everyone outside of the 'family' for all of their help......and that it was a given that greg and other family members would help. Hope that makes sense. imho.

Interesting that Greg is so vocal about his opposition to the press' character assisination of Chris Jefferies.

 

[jigzy]

Just parking a thought if I may:

Here I'm assuming that JY made it home on the evening of 17th December and there was a half drunk bottle of cider with her dna on it found in her apartment:

If there was no sign of a break in then these are the options I can think of - either:
JY let someone in who she did know
or someone with a key went in (either before or after she got home)
or she answered the door to someone she didn't know
or she left the premises to go out somewhere
or she left the premises briefly leaving the door ajar - I'm thinking to put out the trash/ pizza box - maybe she burned the pizza and had to take it out to the bin hence no sign of it. It seems that the LE did not halt the collection of trash - so the pizza & box could have disappeared that way - seems most likely. I wonder what day the trash collection was and where the outdoor bins/ wheelie bins/ recycling bins were? She might have been attacked whilst at the bins, hence the screams heard.

I find it most odd that the media have been allowed so close to the apartments - clues could still remain near the entrance to the driveway, yet the media have been there constantly. I remember criticism of the Portuguese PJ (LE) for allowing the media so close to the apartment where the alleged 'abduction' of Madeleine McCann took place - though in fact the media were no closer than in this case.

Also many people, presumably LE, were seen on the TV news walking within the grounds of the apartment block without forensic suits on - crazy.

The fact that the parents say they knew, within 30 minutes of their inspection of their daughter's apartment, that she had been taken is intriguing. How did they know? This got me thinking how someone would know if I went missing from my own home - and the only thing I can think of is that as soon as I get home I kick off my boots/shoes and I wear slippers - if I was taken from my home then my slippers would disappear too. Missing Slippers may be something that only a woman/mother would notice.

Apologies for thinking aloud. Probably just silly but I thought I'd better get it down.
jmo

 

[liz b.]

I find it all a little odd that the parents have said little, if nothing, of what Greg Reardon is going through - their statement mentioned two of their daughter's friends - but not Greg - weird methinks.
Also strange that throughout this the media mostly reported on the parents. Usually the partner of a victim is more visible and vocal, giving statements to the press. Even when the parents and GR visited the scene it was the parents who were announced by the live news channels - it was as if they had missed the fact that GR was there at first.
jmo

I agree with your post. I don't understand why Greg drove to Sheffield alone. He worked at the same company Jo did ; I wonder why they didn't go to the pub together, stay for a short while, and then go up to visit Greg's brother together. It doesn't seem like Jo had any other plans for that weekend.... I know,hindsight is 20/20. But it's always seemed a bit odd. MOO


All JMO

 

[jigzy]

I agree with your post. I don't understand why Greg drove to Sheffield alone. He worked at the same company Jo did ; I wonder why they didn't go to the pub together, stay for a short while, and then go up to visit Greg's brother together. It doesn't seem like Jo had any other plans for that weekend.... I know,hindsight is 20/20. But it's always seemed a bit odd. MOO


All JMO

Yes, I find it all rather odd. If indeed GR had a sound alibi coupled with the LE having something like CCTV footage of his vehicle en-route at a time that puts him out of the frame, then why didn't the LE release this info so that people would lay off him a bit. One of the UK papers Mirror I think even had his pic on the front page with the headline 'Not a Suspect'. Subtle, I think not.
jmo

 

[laurauk1]

I agree with your post. I don't understand why Greg drove to Sheffield alone. He worked at the same company Jo did ; I wonder why they didn't go to the pub together, stay for a short while, and then go up to visit Greg's brother together. It doesn't seem like Jo had any other plans for that weekend.... I know,hindsight is 20/20. But it's always seemed a bit odd. MOO


All JMO

I'm not so sure if this was odd. My partner and I will quite often head back to our individual families for a visit alone. Usually it is because I have plans to catch up with my girly friends (which would bore my partner to tears) or he has plans to do something with his brothers. I wonder if it was something similar that they were doing. Although being so close to Christmas I assumed that it was a trip in lieu of going up to Sheffield then.

 

[SheDevil]

I still wonder if J/Y was picked up on her way home with her shopping, it has to be someone she knows or she would'nt get in the car, and it would be someone who has visited her at home.

But he does'nt take her home, and later attacks her in the car, dumps her body, but takes her shopping, her coat and bag back to her flat, lets himself in with her key, drinks some of the cider to make it look like she did return home, he may have taken the pizza to eat later.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Joanna_Yeates#cite_note-Sun-20101229-bottle-2
It would explain why there was no evidence of forced entry or a struggle at the flat.

They don't seem to have enough evidence to charge the LL, but they have spent a lot of time removing items, they must have been looking for something.

What if GR picked her up on her way home (OK, car was jumpstarted at 7pm but he doesn't need to have gone straight to Sheffield, perhaps he waited around hoping to see J/Y when she got home - if he didn't I find that equally as strange) weather takes a turn for the worst, he decides to go and pick her up (who was she smiling at in Bargain Booze?), something happens, body dumped on trip up to Sheffield, (it was found on the way out of Bristol, remember), spends weekend up there being sure to use credit cards etc. Coat, keys, mobile go up there with him and are placed back in the flat on his return. The 4 hours between him arriving home and calling the police are spent 'placing' the items, half a bottle of cider poured down the sink to make it look like she got home that evening. I suppose DNA on the bottle and Jo's stomach contents would prove or disprove that line of enquiry though. Same as the pizza (which appears to have been conveniently forgotten!)

I just can't see the LL being the culprit, to be honest.

 

[whitedove]

I thought along the same lines but why would anyone risk going to her flat? Why not just dump all her stuff somewhere? Also her coat was at home. Would a murderer remove her coat and take it home or did she go somewhere warm with someone and remove it herself before being murdered?

Her dad, based on the state of the flat seems sure she was murdered there. I think that maybe she was just about to unwrap the pizza etc to go in the oven when she was attacked and used the pizza in a desperate attempt to protect herself. Because it touched the murderer he/she had to get rid of it. I don't think the murderer would have drunk from the bottle of cider but it could be that there is no dna on it at all. I wonder if she was wearing shoes.......

Welcome to Websleuths Gem.
Yes, taking J/Y belongings back to the flat after dumping a body, there would be a risk of being seen, but it would look like she had arrived home safe, maybe a bit too clever.
The police are saying there was no struggle or no signs of forced entry, looks like they are saying she was'nt attacked in her flat.
So if she was killed in the flat, how was she removed without being seen.

There are very few people she would walk out of her flat with and leave her keys behind.

 

[whitedove]

What if GR picked her up on her way home (OK, car was jumpstarted at 7pm but he doesn't need to have gone straight to Sheffield, perhaps he waited around hoping to see J/Y when she got home - if he didn't I find that equally as strange) weather takes a turn for the worst, he decides to go and pick her up (who was she smiling at in Bargain Booze?), something happens, body dumped on trip up to Sheffield, (it was found on the way out of Bristol, remember), spends weekend up there being sure to use credit cards etc. Coat, keys, mobile go up there with him and are placed back in the flat on his return. The 4 hours between him arriving home and calling the police are spent 'placing' the items, half a bottle of cider poured down the sink to make it look like she got home that evening. I suppose DNA on the bottle and Jo's stomach contents would prove or disprove that line of enquiry though. Same as the pizza (which appears to have been conveniently forgotten!)

I just can't see the LL being the culprit, to be honest.

That is a very clever idea SheDevel, but what if they found the body before he came back, he would be cooked then, he would have to have done it before he went on his journey, but the police are saying he is not a suspect, but they have not given anything out about where he went on his days away.

 

[Gem2626]

Welcome to Websleuths Gem.
Yes, taking J/Y belongings back to the flat after dumping a body, there would be a risk of being seen, but it would look like she had arrived home safe, maybe a bit too clever.
The police are saying there was no struggle or no signs of forced entry, looks like they are saying she was'nt attacked in her flat.
So if she was killed in the flat, how was she removed without being seen.

There are very few people she would walk out of her flat with and leave her keys behind.

Thanks for the welcome. It's good to finally be a member

From what the media and her parents have said I think they are quite certain that she did arrive home. That she was abducted or killed in her flat by someone she knew which would explain why there were no signs of struggle. It would also explain why the police haven't issued warnings on staying safe in the local area. She could have been picked up by the murderer and then taken home....who knows.

They did take away some carpet after the lazers had been in so hopefully that will show something significant which will help catch the killer.


The one thing I can't get my head around with your theory is What would be the murderers reasons for wanting people to think she had arrived home safely? I also think if he/she was clever enough then he/she would have taken her keys, phone, shoes and coat to make it look like she'd left the house again and got into trouble out on the streets where the number of suspects would be greatly increased. It seems that the murderer panicked and didn't think about the small details. I agree the removal of her body would have been difficult, why not just leave it there? IF it was someone in her building maybe they wanted to throw suspicion away from them by removing the body?

truly puzzling

 

[LadyL]

Just to make clear: the former tenant said no net curtains or blinds. Net curtains are considered sort of lower class in Britain, if I remember correctly. He probably thought drapes or regular curtains were all right.

If he was very fussy about the condition of the window frames, he wouldn't like the way blinds need to be installed with screws and things. So, maybe suspicious, maybe just a little picky and compulsive.



link to net curtain remark

but if he thought regular curtains or drapes were alright, that would make his peeking into their flat more difficult I would think ...

I agree that he was probably being picky about his 'grand' building

 

[Gem2626]

What if GR picked her up on her way home (OK, car was jumpstarted at 7pm but he doesn't need to have gone straight to Sheffield, perhaps he waited around hoping to see J/Y when she got home - if he didn't I find that equally as strange) weather takes a turn for the worst, he decides to go and pick her up (who was she smiling at in Bargain Booze?), something happens, body dumped on trip up to Sheffield, (it was found on the way out of Bristol, remember), spends weekend up there being sure to use credit cards etc. Coat, keys, mobile go up there with him and are placed back in the flat on his return. The 4 hours between him arriving home and calling the police are spent 'placing' the items, half a bottle of cider poured down the sink to make it look like she got home that evening. I suppose DNA on the bottle and Jo's stomach contents would prove or disprove that line of enquiry though. Same as the pizza (which appears to have been conveniently forgotten!)

I just can't see the LL being the culprit, to be honest.

I think I read somewhere that he'd been caught on CCTV on his way to Sheffield along with the receipts and phone records which have led to him being ruled him out.

The media really went to town with the LL which makes me think the BF has a tight alibi which they know of, otherwise, wouldn't they be dragging up all the BF's past?

Why don't you think it's the LL? I'm not sure about him. It all kind of fits but I can't see his motive for killing her.

 

[Gem2626]

but if he thought regular curtains or drapes were alright, that would make his peeking into their flat more difficult I would think ...

I agree that he was probably being picky about his 'grand' building

The former tenant said in an interview that she would get dressed in the bathroom. Why didn't she just close the curtains?

I also agree that he was being picky

 

[whitedove]

Thanks for the welcome. It's good to finally be a member

From what the media and her parents have said I think they are quite certain that she did arrive home. That she was abducted or killed in her flat by someone she knew which would explain why there were no signs of struggle. It would also explain why the police haven't issued warnings on staying safe in the local area. She could have been picked up by the murderer and then taken home....who knows.

They did take away some carpet after the lazers had been in so hopefully that will show something significant which will help catch the killer.



The one thing I can't get my head around with your theory is What would be the murderers reasons for wanting people to think she had arrived home safely? I also think if he/she was clever enough then he/she would have taken her keys, phone, shoes and coat to make it look like she'd left the house again and got into trouble out on the streets where the number of suspects would be greatly increased. It seems that the murderer panicked and didn't think about the small details. I agree the removal of her body would have been difficult, why not just leave it there? IF it was someone in her building maybe they wanted to throw suspicion away from them by removing the body?

truly puzzling

I expect the parents are bound to think their daughter arrived home, her belongings were there.
If her life ended in the flat, why bother to remove it, they would have to find something to cover the body, it would be heavy to carry, it would be something people would remember if they saw it happening, and what about a motive, why was she killed.
Yes a lot of puzzling things to think about.

 

[wfgodot]

This short Mirror piece states the obvious, but does so in a manner which captures the dark undertow one feels when viewing the images in question, providing an undeniable chill:

Ghostly image of Joanna Yeates

Many of us object to what has been called Britain’s surveillance state.
---
Yet footage from CCTV cameras has come to provide some of the most haunting images of our time.
---
Think of the images of TV presenter Jill Dando shopping for essentials an hour or so before she is gunned down on the doorstep in Fulham.

Think of little Jamie Bulger being led away from the shopping centre by the two boys who will so brutally murder him.

This Christmas, most of us will have watched footage of the last moments in the life of the murdered Bristol landscape architect Joanna Yeates.
---
An ordinary young woman doing ordinary things.

What gives these blurry, indistinct images their near-unbearable poignancy is that we view them in retrospect. It’s like watching a movie for the second time: we know what will happen next.
---
Yet still we watch the images. It’s almost as if we want to warn her about what lies ahead. But of course we can’t.

The future for her has already happened.

the article in its entirety at
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/column...-joanna-yeates-115875-22820732/#ixzz19tFubXt0

 

[Sgt Jones]

I agree with your post. I don't understand why Greg drove to Sheffield alone. He worked at the same company Jo did ; I wonder why they didn't go to the pub together, stay for a short while, and then go up to visit Greg's brother together. It doesn't seem like Jo had any other plans for that weekend.... I know,hindsight is 20/20. But it's always seemed a bit odd. MOO


All JMO

Perhaps Jo didn't get on with Greg's brother. I don't visit my b/f's sister as I don't get on with her so he visit's her alone.

 

[SheDevil]

That is a very clever idea SheDevel, but what if they found the body before he came back, he would be cooked then, he would have to have done it before he went on his journey, but the police are saying he is not a suspect, but they have not given anything out about where he went on his days away.

They seem to have been deliberately vague as to the boyfriends timings, I don't think he is completely ruled out by any means.

Why don't I think the LL did it? Mainly motive, and lack of previous (that we know of). You don't get to the age of 65 and suddenly start bumping people off, and if he did, why would he choose one of his tenants in the same building? Strangulation is usually a crime of passion. I certainly don't think the LL would have been interested in Joanna in a sexual way.

I honestly think he just likes to make himself seem important and is a typical nosey neighbour (he's a member of the local Neighbourhood Watch), and all his bluff and bluster backfired on him in a serious way.

There's a police press conference at 4PM (UK time), I wonder what news that will bring, if anything? The police are stressing they are still wanting information from the public, but they seem to be leaving an awful lot of questions unanswered, (WHY did we only find out recently she visited Bargain Booze as well as Tesco and Waitrose? That could have yielded a lot of important sightings much earlier!) at the previous press conference, the detective didn't say very much other than 'we're keeping an open mind'.

 

[liz b.]

Perhaps Jo didn't get on with Greg's brother. I don't visit my b/f's sister as I don't get on with her so he visit's her alone.

That could be. But, Greg's mother said that Jo had visited and stayed with them in Sheffield many times. I wonder who's idea it was to do seperate things that weekend ?

I doubt that Greg is involved,but who knows ? Of more interest is that night in the pub.... MOO

All JMO

 

[Patticake]

That could be. But, Greg's mother said that Jo had visited and stayed with them in Sheffield many times. I wonder who's idea it was to do seperate things that weekend ?

I doubt that Greg is involved,but who knows ? Of more interest is that night in the pub.... MOO

All JMO

Greg was my first choice based on his hysterical behavior. I was perplexed that LE hasn't been very vocal about ruling him out as a suspect. I think the most they have done is say he's being "treated as a witness".

The parents seem to have a lot of faith in him.


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